No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[Naam]

For retired couple having Both more than 50

The man put the 800k on his account for 3 months then he asks and get the Visa.

During that time his wife get a double entry Tourist Visa ( 60+30 2 times)

Then he wires the money to his wife account and she asks and get the visa afetr 90 days.

Easy no??

why would the wife need again a visa from abroad when she is already in the country after obtaining a non-immigrant visa on which basis extensions of stay were granted?

[Bruce1]

Fair comment about the lack of resistance to the Japs, I guess they decided there was nothing to achieve by attempting the impossible as the Japs grossly outnumbered them. Don't forget the 100,000 or so Asian slaves, mostly Thai, who died building the Death Railway though. Doesn't change my point about fighting your neighbours for 1000 years making them a bit wary.

[MaiChai]

My view of visas and Thailand is that they can change the goalposts whenever they want. Thus you need to have a B plan for your retirement. You cannot be certain that you will 'meet the requirements' when you decide to retire. Thus its a double edged sword; if they dont give you the confidence that will be able to enjoy any investment you make here, thus in my opinion its difficult to make a large investment here. Keep your house at home because you may need it for your retirement (and you can certainly live off the rent). Anyway in 10/20 years time other countries in the area may be more attractive and the novelty of farangs may have worn off?

Anyone seen those lovely 'paradise/utopian' adverts they have for house/condo developments in Pattaya. If you want see what your 'investment' will look like in ten years time, take a look at a 10 year old developement and see how run down it is Nobody, especially Thais, want to pay for the upkeep of a development. TiT Not to mention all the pollution in the sea Things can go downhill very quickly without proper planning controls so better rent?

[Jingthing]

For retired couple having Both more than 50

The man put the 800k on his account for 3 months then he asks and get the Visa.

During that time his wife get a double entry Tourist Visa ( 60+30 2 times)

Then he wires the money to his wife account and she asks and get the visa afetr 90 days.

Easy no??

A little bit complicated but doable and not cheating only following the law.

Or he put the 800K in a blocked account asking a 800K credit to his bank guaranteed by the 800K ( i dont know if this is possible here?) and then he put these 800k in his spouse account.

And dont tell me i am a cheater i am just thinking and am under 50

Good idea, but it seems to me this pattern of draining the accounts would be detected sooner or later, and they would not be very amused.

[grantbkk]

No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

and

Map required

If a foreigner has been granted a extension of stay based on retirement, until now as per 7.19 of the Royal Police Office Order 606/2006 his or her foreign dependent ( Wife or husband, child, father, mother) could get a extension of stay by being a dependent. As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any “grandfather” cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Example. A foreigner husband is 53 years old and has a extension of stay based on retirement. His wife is Japanese and they live together in Thailand. She is 43 years old and now cannot get a extension of stay as a dependent. Even if she was 51 years old, she does not qualify. She must meet her own set of criteria and not piggyback off her husbands retirement extension of stay permit. If she is over 50 years old, she can get a extension of stay based on retirement but must have her own 800K sent from outside the country to her bank account or qualify by having a pension of 65K per month.

Example: A foreigner has two children that are not Thai nationals. They are 16 years old and 12 years old. They can no longer be a dependent to obtain a extension of stay permit by having a father who is over 50 years old. They possibly can get a extension of stay permit or visa on a different criteria. Perhaps they will qualify as a educational extension of stay permit.

This National Police Order will be dated Sept 1st 2007 and will be published in the Gazette in the next 10 days. However this order is effective immediately.

This could be a U-turn next week but the odds are very high, this will continued to be the new law and interpretation.

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Ominous Visit to the Thai Immigration Office

This morning (Friday) I paid a visit to the Immigration Office in Bangkok to pick up some forms and to get some first hand information regarding the latest slate of changes on the Retirement Visa extension program. I have a contact there so I was able to bypass the 300 or so people waiting on the first floor to conduct their business and talk to a captain and actual officer working at one of the visa desks.

The officer gave me the forms I will be required to return next week to renew my visa and secure a multiple entry stamp (TM 7 and TM8). She continually stressed the need for the letter from my bank detailing my international money transfers and the fact that I've had more than Bt800,000 in my savings account for at least three months. I asked her if there were any other forms or paper work that Immigration needed from my bank and she said the letter was all that was required.

The requirement for a medical certificate for a Retirement Visa has been lifted.

I was further informed that I must complete my visa extension process before October 1st. Of course I inquired as to the reason (twice). The Immigration Office put her face in her hands and then said she didn't know what the changes were going to be but they were coming and to get my visa before October 1st.

I have to say that I've been going to the same office for five years and I've never seen so many people and the feeling of stress throughout the place was palpable. An elderly farang and his Thai wife were in tears at the next desk. They were showing pictures of their home and the officer was telling him he didn't have enough money and would have to leave Thailand.

I hope this firsthand account of an actual visit to the Immigration Office will help someone else in some way. There is way too much speculation going on however, my visit will probably just add fuel to the fire.

Good luck!

[Jingthing]

The Immigration Office put her face in her hands and then said she didn't know what the changes were going to be but they were coming and to get my visa before October 1st.

Wow, that post was chilling.

Did she lower her face down to her hands or did the hands come up to her head? What does that gesture mean in Thai?

Anyone know what these changes might be? Weren't they already announced with these so called trial balloons?

[PeaceBlondie]

The Immigration Office put her face in her hands and then said she didn't know what the changes were going to be but they were coming and to get my visa before October 1st.

Wow, that post was chilling.

Yes, it is chilling, even to those of us who aren't affected this year. For example, my annual renewal date is 7 November, so in one more year, will I be left out in the heat by the 8th of October 2008?

I was not a fool to come here for up to 5.5 years. I suspect I would be a great fool to stay here 1.5 years more.

[grantbkk]

The Immigration Office put her face in her hands and then said she didn't know what the changes were going to be but they were coming and to get my visa before October 1st.

Wow, that post was chilling.

Did she lower her face down to her hands or did the hands come up to her head? What does that gesture mean in Thai?

Anyone know what these changes might be? Weren't they already announced with these so called trial balloons?

Her gesture looked pretty universal to me. Frustration! She actually brought her head down to her open hands for a few seconds and then told me that they did not know what was coming but there would be some new rules October 1st.

[exexpat]

If it isn't plainly obvious by the 57 pages of posts, the Thai are doing house cleaning, getting rid of "foreigners".

Of course, they can't single out farang and Singaporeans cuz its discrimination, but actually thats who they want to get rid of.  

After years of tolerating the ugly farang including those with lack of manners, total lack of respect (but along with decent well mannered farang as well), Thai have decided to get rid of "long stayers".   The Thai image of long stayers is that long stayers can't hold jobs at home, and so they came to "steal" Thai jobs, of course this is politically spinned.  Funny thing is, the short staying tourists are the ones most disrespecting the nation, but also the ones must vulnerable to con artists, therefore lucrative.

Japanese meanwhile had played the game well.  They purposely avoided committing any cultural faux pas by spending more and being polite...and also by  embedding themselves in the Thai economy with Thais, so naturally the laws bend around their needs as Thais would lose big time too, nearly half the nations' 

exports rely on Japanese cooperation.  Nevertheless, for the Japanese with no corporate connection, they suffer too...and there was a time in the 70's with widespread anti-Japanese hysteria.

I also have to add foreign residents anywhere are easy targets.  Foreigners have no rights, and are easy scapegoats for any problem.  Of course the conservative media suck it up, and believe it wholeheartedly.  Truth is, its just all a coverup for their lack of accomplishment.  This though, I must say, is almost universal in any nation, although the Thai government has been particularly noteable.

Truth is, xenophobia happens in cycles, along with manipulation of facts.  Countries kick out people only to beg them to come back later.  Public opinion on the other hand, despite reflecting the laws now, is nearly irrelevant.  Governments open up or close up due to politics, not public opinion, and then sway public opinion when its convenient.

Maybe we need to learn a thing or two from people who have been here longer, namely the Japanese and Chinese. Both groups encountered significant discrimination (Chinese in the early 1900's). This intense nationalism is one reason that Thailand is the only nation in SE Asia that Chinese have assimilated into Thai society.

[Bagwan]

Can somebody please educate me? Who makes these rules? What passes for Parliament or some jumped up Civil Servant or top cop? I read the Post cover to cover every day and have never noticed anything about variation of visa and residence rules.

[Jingthing]

Can somebody please educate me? Who makes these rules? What passes for Parliament or some jumped up Civil Servant or top cop? I read the Post cover to cover every day and have never noticed anything about variation of visa and residence rules.

My impression is the Post and the Nation do not cover these issues.

[keemapoot]

My experience is that you will find out any current rule or its interpretation upon presenting yourself to immigration at your annual date. At that time, you will find out if you have the right to remain another year or not.

Full stop.

[Martin]

"At that time, you will find out if you have the right to remain another year or not."

"Right"??????

My take on it is that Thai law gives no foreigner any "right to remain".

It is possible, when presenting yourself to the Royal Thai Immigration Police that, after examining the circumstances and exercising his/her discretion, the Immigration Pollice Officer may give you permission to remain.

No 'right', just 'discretionary permission'. And from prehistory to now, that is how virtually the totality of humankind have felt that their tribe should treat outsiders who present themselves at the boundaries of their tribe's lands and ask permission to enter, or who come in as visitors and then ask to stay.

Just because, for a short period, Britain, and then America, found it expedient (in their drive to become dominant over all other nations) to welcome in foreign immigrants and dangled 'right to remain' as a carrot, we should not think it exists here and now.

I find it ludicrous that so many couples tell me, when I visit the UK, "We are going to live abroad when we retire". There is a subconscious arrogance (or an over-optimism) in it that makes me wince.

What they should be saying is: "When we retire, we are going to ask for permission to stay in some country in a pleasanter climate."

If they ask me about Thailand, I say that they may be given permission to stay, for one year at a time, and with no guarantee of renewal, provided their financial circumstances meet the requirements then laid down and their behaviour is appropriate.

They raise their eyebrows at 'behaviour', so I tell them how the local Police where they have been staying (and are asking to stay on) will be asked for a report by the Immigration Police.

Nothing (except that it ends in Death) is certain in Life; and we have to accept that 'permission to remain' cannot be certain either.

[gdhm]

....Just because, for a short period, Britain, and then America, found it expedient (in their drive to become dominant over all other nations) to welcome in foreign immigrants and dangled 'right to remain' as a carrot, we should not think it exists here and now.

I find it ludicrous that so many couples tell me, when I visit the UK, "We are going to live abroad when we retire". There is a subconscious arrogance (or an over-optimism) in it that makes me wince.

What they should be saying is: "When we retire, we are going to ask for permission to stay in some country in a pleasanter climate."....

Actually I do not think your statement and view is correct.

For a start, now that the EU exists and has done so for many decades the UK citizen has every right to choose to retire to another EU country (even work) as part of the rules of the club (and vice versa). In most cases when a UK citizen plans to retire abroad they are thinking the Spain, France, Portugal etc. etc. all in the EU, and not Thailand or Asia.

All of which they have a right to do so subject to some basic requirements (not being a major criminal) etc. and the it is pretty easy to do so. If one is thinking that is ONLY in the EU do not forget how many countries exist in the EU a large amount of the European countries.

Additionally, there are many other countries that court foreigners or make it quite easy for foreigners to retire to them(Malaysia Philippines to name two).

May I ask. When you you wince do you happen to know if the persons saying they plan to retire already know they can go to all these countries? If they do, then where is the arrogance? Its just knowledge of their acceptable and permissible options is it not?

I voluntarily retired to Spain 6 years ago (stayed 4), now I am in Thailand with my Thai Wife and stepson. On both occasions I KNEW I was permitted to stay under the rules of each country at the time. For Spain all I needed was an air ticket they even removed an already very small income requirement (EU rules of freedom of movement including to work).

For Thailand it is much more complicated BUT Thailand (as at the present day) still caters for those wishing to retire (or live here) be it not very satisfactorily based on only a year at a time. I say only a year, not out of arrogance, but because even if Thailand does not care a shit about me they should give my dependant Thai wife and Thai stepson some degree of security and control of their lives within their own country. The possibility of us all being separated or uprooted or the Visa rules killing off the marriage due to the strains of relocation or being forced apart for months on end is no way to treat Thai citizens. Already, the financial requirements are way above what an average or even comfortable THAI couple live on - why the selection against Thais married to foreigners (OK the foreigner needs a little more to cover possible medical cost not free to him/her).

It would seem Thais married to foreigners are considered less than Thais married to Thais AND from previous posts we know a Thai/foreign baby born in Thailand although a Thai citizen is not identical in its rights a sit can have its passport/citizenship removed form it under certain circumstances (be it rarely will these reveal themselves thank goodness) - how fair is that?.

Kind Regards, Dave

[PeaceBlondie]

In the mist of all this soul-searching I've been on since the 1st of September 2550, the fog rolls back and I recall that I didn't exactly come here to retire. I came here to teach English, and the govt. schools would not take the simple steps to make me legal, so I quit teaching on a B visa without a work permit. I took the so-called retirement visa, with its extensions, because it didn't require visa runs quarterly and annually.

Now that retirement is much more of a reality than it was 9 years ago when I retired from civil service, I still wish to work at least part time, and legally. And, eventually, I would like to live out my final years in a country where the likelihood of doing so is fairly certain. Obviously, Thailand is not such a country where I can work or retire.

I'm going to be on pins and needles until I get my visa renewed next month, for another 366 days. I suspect that will be the last renewal.

[Martin]

In post #856, 'gdhm' said:

"It would seem Thais married to foreigners are considered less than Thais married to Thais AND from previous posts we know a Thai/foreign baby born in Thailand although a Thai citizen is not identical in its rights a sit can have its passport/citizenship removed form it under certain circumstances (be it rarely will these reveal themselves thank goodness) - how fair is that?."

IMO. it is downright unfair, Dave.

But we are not talking about "What is fair?" here.

We are talking about people treat each other.

It would be nice if they were exactly the same, but they are not.

There is some overlap, and lots of good people try to get that to increase over time by reasoned debate and explanation of how it feels to be treated unfarly to their less good-hearted/less imaginative brethren. But there's still a way to go.

Put simply, I suppose one could say that there is a range from "Man's Inhumanity to Man" through to "Love Thy Neighbour" somewhere along which we find the 'fairness' that we will apply to a particular situation.

I am an eternal optimist about mankind, and cherish evidence that it does progress.

Obviously, the people that I know best are those that I was born among and have lived among (with forays elesewhere).

Those people are Northern Brits, as I was born in a little 'mill village' fifteen miles east of Manchester, where Lancashire met Yorkshire and the tip of Cheshire and the tip of Derbyshire. (I could cycle in four counties during an hour on the bike).

I remember my father once coming home and saying how some of the women at 'The Works' were disgusted with one of the village maidens who had announced her engagement. She was going to "Marry Away". The young man came from another, similar, village about 6 miles down the road!

Times have changed, because mankind has progressed in 70 years. That village has now even accepted the ingress of a Cantonese family, who operate a successful Chinese take-away.

But there will still be a lot in that village who would feel that I had in some way let the village down by marrying Thong.

Just as there will be some in Thong's village that will feel she has let the village down by marrying a farang.

In both villages, there'll be some feeling of: "Well, it may be OK for them, and we can live with cross-cultural marriage at the present level. But we don't want a lot of it. And we certainly would get upset if 'other culture' couples were allowed to start buying in".

The frustrating thing for me about this thread (and it is a general frustration that I have with Thailand) is that we are kept clueless about what led up to this proposal to change the guidelines to the Immigration Officers. Have the 'fingers upon the puses' sensed that a flood of Indian and/or Chinese families are seeing a future in Thailand as more attractive than a future in India or China and is this a way of blocking them out?? Or what??

[gdhm]

....The frustrating thing for me about this thread (and it is a general frustration that I have with Thailand) is that we are kept clueless about what led up to this proposal to change the guidelines to the Immigration Officers. Have the 'fingers upon the puses' sensed that a flood of Indian and/or Chinese families are seeing a future in Thailand as more attractive than a future in India or China and is this a way of blocking them out?? Or what??

Yes I agree with you Martin.

If it is felt a rule(s) needs changing then so be it (even if we do not like or agree with it) but it would not hurt to announce it a reasonable time in advance. Even if it was for no no other reason than to make sure their own regional Imm. Offices are aware and prepared for a new/amended rule so that they can brief or respond to Foreigners visiting them.

Additionally, an explanation regarding the basic reasoning at the time of announcement would certainly be courteous, appreciated by all AND would saves a lot of adverse speculation and sometimes incorrect reactions.

Before anyone jumps on the "Thailand, or any country, does not need to justify its actions to anybody" I agree, but I am saying explain NOT justify, there is a subtle but important difference. Not providing any information on reasoning or any advance warning does not do much for the cultural courtesy and respect that Thais are considered famous for.

Regards, Dave

[ttthailand]

What is truly lacking in this country is PROFESSIONALISM. You can see the lack of it in every area of the govern... and business.

Make changes , no problem ! But do it in a professional manner and you will not lose people's respect. Be as fair as possible. Grandfathering should apply where seen fit. Rules should be followed the same way by all concerned parties. Etc etc.... Again lacking in Professionalism !

Fix this one area and good things will follow.

[Sunbelt Asia]

What is truly lacking in this country is PROFESSIONALISM. You can see the lack of it in every area of the govern... and business.

Make changes , no problem ! But do it in a professional manner and you will not lose people's respect. Be as fair as possible. Grandfathering should apply where seen fit. Rules should be followed the same way by all concerned parties. Etc etc.... Again lacking in Professionalism !

Fix this one area and good things will follow.

I felt the same as well when I heard that Bkk Immigration would not allow “grandfathering” This was quite stunning news because they always have allowed it before when they change an amendment.. Must of asked over a hundred times “ Are you sure? “

It does make sense to me now, however, why no grandfathering is allowed. Because the dependent based on retirement, in their opinion is against the Immigration Act and Ministerial Regulations ( which is superior to the National Police Oder 606). Bkk Immigration feels any permit granted before by them should never have been approved and the Police Order was wrong in allowing it. Immigration cannot allow someone to get a extension even if they have been granted one before as a dependent, as the superior law states they must not allow it. Immigration is not changing the law when they denied someone the permit, in their opinion, they now are just using the correct interpretation of the Immigration Act and Ministerial Regulations and ignoring in this case the National Police Order in regards to dependents based on retirement.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[JetsetBkk]

Now that retirement is much more of a reality than it was 9 years ago when I retired from civil service, I still wish to work at least part time, and legally. And, eventually, I would like to live out my final years in a country where the likelihood of doing so is fairly certain. Obviously, Thailand is not such a country where I can work or retire.

I would like to work here too, not because I need the money, but because it would keep me active and I would actually enjoy giving some uneducated kids just a bit of my knowledge. I'm no genius, but I'm sure I could teach something - maths, English, computers - if only the Thai government would just relax their attitude. So many 50+ years old people here with so much they could give back. What a waste!

I'm going to be on pins and needles until I get my visa renewed next month, for another 366 days. I suspect that will be the last renewal.

Good luck - I'm sure you'll let us know what happens!

[Sunbelt Asia]

I would like to work here too, not because I need the money, but because it would keep me active and I would actually enjoy giving some uneducated kids just a bit of my knowledge. I'm no genius, but I'm sure I could teach something - maths, English, computers - if only the Thai government would just relax their attitude. So many 50+ years old people here with so much they could give back. What a waste!

You can work here if you are over 50 years old. We have a Associate Russ Murray who is 80 years old and will be 81 years this month. Perhaps the oldest person with a work permit in Thailand so its possible.

You just need to find a employer who will sponsor you. A number of Ngo's out there that can use your skills.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Bagwan]

How very heartening that the response to my post has been informative and posts have been respectful. Well done and thank you to those who responded.

It would seem from the Sunbelt response that the law isn't being changed but is now being correctly applied. It follows that the Immigration Police have had their heads stuck up their fundamental orifice (no surprise there!) and we poor innocents are picking up the tab. I'm not at all sure that I would care to get into a discussion with the denizens of Soi 5, Jomtien about the correctness of their interpretation of Thai law.

I find the argument that large sums of money, by Thai standards, have to be held by, or available to, foreigners in case of sickness or injury more than a tad specious. Just after meeting my wife I was concerned for her health and consequently took her to hospital for a thorough check up. I, not she, was informed of her ailments and that the doctor was of the opinion that she had a life expectancy of about three months. The sole concern of the hospital authorities before treatment could commence was whether I was prepared to pay the costs. When I asked what the alternative was, and without batting an eyelid, the doctor bluntly told me that she would be sent away. Nobody disagreed with my interpretation of this as 'take her away and let her die quietly somewhere'. If the Thai authorities are so unconcerned for their own, why the hel_l should they care about a foreigner?

Why is it that a foreigner with empty pockets but a certified income of 800,000 baht p.a. can obtain a 12 month visa renewal? Will a hospital treat a patient on the 'never never'? I wouldn't count on it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to Sunbelt Asia for reminding us of the reason that Immigration Police are unable to grandfather spouses of retirees. If there is a parallel to Western law, imagine that a high appeals court declares illegal something that the government has authorized for years. No matter how legal that seemed in the past, it now turns out that the govt. cannot authorize it, and really never 'should have' authorized it.

Perhaps spouses of retirees never should have received those piggyback visa extensions based on the pension of the other spouse, and they were just 'lucky' to get them in the past.

I encourage those who have the perseverance, to try to get legal to do the work you'd like to do. I don't have the patience.

[Bagwan]

I shall enjoy reading about the implosion of Pattaya.

But think about those foreigners who have settled there. Even blokes who have Thai wives and kids often rely on the business of other foreigners. If there are less foreign residents that is going to hit business. Not to mention the knock on effects of people world wide knowing Thais hate foreigners. What is going to happen to tourism? Enough people are wound up over this to flood travel message boards world wide with an anti Thai message. Lonely planet could mean lonely Thailand. Amazingly dumb Thailand.

I did settle in Pattaya. I do have a Thai wife who I am legally married to, recognised by both the Thai and UK governments.

I don't feel I have to think about, or for, other foreigners. I assume that they are sentient adults who can think for themselves.

If implosion does occur the blame should be clearly laid at the door of successive Thai governments. Those who are caught out by the disaster will be found to be wearing rose tinted glasses and/or have stupidly committed all their resources in furtherance of living in a mirage. Those not considering Plan 2 at this time may well regret it.

[Bagwan]

I think that all the countries that farangs come from should apply the same rules to all the Thai people living there. Only fair and just. They are there earning money most of which is sent back to Thailand to support their families. Which the Thai government do not do.

So let them put a stop to that! Use the same thought process of the Thai government that if you don't like it - GET OUT and GO HOME

Thai governments have thought processes? :D

[BlackJack]

I am slowly reaching the tipping point with all this nonsense.

To park 800,000 in the bank for 3 months is a BAD INVESTMENT. Particularly when you are a retiree and you possibly own your own home (no rent).

One of my managed funds paid 80% last year, based on the CHina boom and commodities. So the choice for me is simple, keep the money off shore - dont bring it here.

OR

65,000 per month -even drinking a bottle of imported wine each day and running the aircon all day, internet, satellite TV, running bike, insurance, health i would not spend 65K per month.

So the question remains - who is doing the sums on how much is really needed for retirement in Thailand. It doesnt seem to add up.

Thais Farang

5580 Baht PM 65,000 baht PM

PLEASE the powers that be use some logic in working out the cost of living in Thailand -

OK start laughing now

[gdhm]

I think that all the countries that farangs come from should apply the same rules to all the Thai people living there. Only fair and just. They are there earning money most of which is sent back to Thailand to support their families. Which the Thai government do not do.

So let them put a stop to that! Use the same thought process of the Thai government that if you don't like it - GET OUT and GO HOME

Whilst I understand the frustration and sentiment, I do not agree with the concept of "Two wrongs make a right"

nor with the idea of "TIT for tat" (sorry could not resist )

Regards, Dave

[Naam]

To park 800,000 in the bank for 3 months is a BAD INVESTMENT

i think we all agree with you on this but what choice is there? those affected who can afford the 800k are still better off than those with a wife below retiring age who must go through the hassle obtaining a new visa every year, doing visa runs or whatever is required to stay till age 50.

[selftaopath]

I am slowly reaching the tipping point with all this nonsense.

To park 800,000 in the bank for 3 months is a BAD INVESTMENT. Particularly when you are a retiree and you possibly own your own home (no rent).

One of my managed funds paid 80% last year, based on the CHina boom and commodities. So the choice for me is simple, keep the money off shore - dont bring it here.

OR

65,000 per month -even drinking a bottle of imported wine each day and running the aircon all day, internet, satellite TV, running bike, insurance, health i would not spend 65K per month.

So the question remains - who is doing the sums on how much is really needed for retirement in Thailand. It doesnt seem to add up.

Thais Farang

5580 Baht PM 65,000 baht PM

PLEASE the powers that be use some logic in working out the cost of living in Thailand -

OK start laughing now

Oh man I am laughing - thanks BlackJack. I'll tell ya.. that was a good one. LOGIC- LOL

I have been desperately hoping to find logic in Thailand. But "it" seems so elusive. Please let me know if you or any other Western X pat finds it. I'd love to see what it looks like.

Keoki

[gdhm]

Thanks to Sunbelt Asia for reminding us of the reason that Immigration Police are unable to grandfather spouses of retirees. If there is a parallel to Western law, imagine that a high appeals court declares illegal something that the government has authorized for years. No matter how legal that seemed in the past, it now turns out that the govt. cannot authorize it, and really never 'should have' authorized it.

Perhaps spouses of retirees never should have received those piggyback visa extensions based on the pension of the other spouse, and they were just 'lucky' to get them in the past.

I encourage those who have the perseverance, to try to get legal to do the work you'd like to do. I don't have the patience.

True Peaceblondie, but in the West the reasoning and outcome would be well publicised in many areas, media, official bodies responsible etc. and all would have been able to find out the situation.

Mind you you did say an interesting point "High appeals court". There does not seem to be similar processes with these latest rules. Some unnamed persons have decided that previous rules have been enacted incorrectly and have changed them. What triggered the decision? Even if there is good logic to these latest changes what about all the recent previous "tooing and throwing" with the Visa rules which have not been identified as incorrectly applied laws in the past.

At times I feel we play at interpreting Nostradamus. Imm. make a change or new rule and instead of Imm. telling us their reasons everybody, on TV, other Forums and Visa seekers try to interpret and justify the reasoning ourselves. We invariably accept a good logical reasoning supported by most until a better more likely interpretation is put forward.

In truth ONLY Imm. know and regretfully they seem happy to keep the reasoning mostly to themselves if not completely to themselves. Why? What is there to gain by either Visa Seekers OR Imm. Offices and Officers?

I do not understand why every new Imm. rule or amendment requires Visa seekers to go though the equivalent of a major investigation. Which seems necessary nearly EVERY TIME in order to get information and to find out how it will be applied at each's own Local Imm. Office. These Rules & Regs whether new or amened should be readily available and consistently applied. It not exactly Rocket science.

All that MOST of us Visa seekers ask, is for a little understanding and courtesy from Imm. regarding new rules and amendments. Maybe Imm. cannot make rules that will please us but it can inform us adequately and provide a little advance warning to allow applicants to adjust/obtain the new requirements, and make sure its local offices are up to date and know how to apply the changes uniformly.

Regards, Dave