Men aren't the same as far as what drives them, but women also have a drive. The difference is that hormone levels are cyclical. It's still individual although men think about sex more often.

Whilst indeed there are individual differences, there is no equivalence between a woman's sex drive and man's. A man, due to testosterone levels being much higher, will generally have a much more powerful sex drive.

Just now, Cameroni said:

Dworkin has been debunked as the LIAR, EXAGGERATOR and total FRAUD she is. Her writing is a tissue of lies. Dworkin has no points. Any man who quotes Dworkin has serious problems.

I don't need to talk to women to know why they "enter prostitution", they do it because they're greedy for money and exceptionally work-shy. And because they can, because taking money from men in a cloud of testosterone is easy.

Have you ever considered that 95% of women who become prostitutes do so, purely because it's easy money for almost no work? Don't just rely on AI, use your brain.

Some have made their opinions known against her, and some are for. The fact is, she is but one who has written on this subject. there are many more who say much the same things. I use AI to quickly prove a point. There are hundreds of links that show this.

I've read on this for decades, ever since we had internet, as it's interesting and I've always seen women as equals that deserve respect and not to be used. Prostitution hurts all of them in one way or another. Only about 30% go into the trade from poverty, The rest are coerced, forced, on drugs or in debt. Most come from a background of abuse and or neglect. Some do see this as a money making deal, but you don't know what else is involved, and that's where those studies have shown more.

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Men aren't the same as far as what drives them, but women also have a drive. The difference is that hormone levels are cyclical. It's still individual although men think about sex more often.

Scientific Findings

• Averages: Most studies and meta-analyses find that men, on average, think about sex more frequently, have more frequent fantasies, and desire sex more often.

• Individual Overlap: According to Psychology Today, roughly one-third of women actually have a higher sex drive than the average male.

• Couple Dynamics: When looking at established relationships, studies show that about half of couples have similar levels of desire, and men and women are equally likely to be the partner with the lower sex drive

Scientific research consistently indicates that men, on average, have a stronger sex drive (libido) than women. This conclusion is backed by extensive psychological, behavioral, and biological data, most notably a comprehensive meta-analysis of over 200 studies involving more than 600,000 participants.

1. Frequency of Thoughts: Studies show men think about sex much more frequently throughout the day compared to women.

2. Spontaneous Desires: Men experience more frequent spontaneous spikes in sexual desire that are not triggered by an immediate external stimulus.

3. Fantasy Variety: Men report a higher frequency and a wider variety of sexual fantasies

Testosterone Levels: Testosterone is the primary hormonal driver of sexual desire in both men and women. Men naturally produce significantly higher baseline levels of testosterone than women

Just now, Cameroni said:

Scientific research consistently indicates that men, on average, have a stronger sex drive (libido) than women. This conclusion is backed by extensive psychological, behavioral, and biological data, most notably a comprehensive meta-analysis of over 200 studies involving more than 600,000 participants.

1. Frequency of Thoughts: Studies show men think about sex much more frequently throughout the day compared to women.

2. Spontaneous Desires: Men experience more frequent spontaneous spikes in sexual desire that are not triggered by an immediate external stimulus.

3. Fantasy Variety: Men report a higher frequency and a wider variety of sexual fantasies

Testosterone Levels: Testosterone is the primary hormonal driver of sexual desire in both men and women. Men naturally produce significantly higher baseline levels of testosterone than women

That's what I posted, and knew as a teenager. This isn't new findings.

Only about 30% go into the trade from poverty, The rest are coerced, forced, on drugs or in debt.

So you are saying 70% of women who become prostitutes do so because they are coerced, forced or on drugs.

You are out of your mind.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Whilst indeed there are individual differences, there is no equivalence between a woman's sex drive and man's. A man, due to testosterone levels being much higher, will generally have a much more powerful sex drive.

Woman also have other things to think about , numerous topics to occupy their thoughts , whereas some men only think about sex and Israelis .

So, they become rampant on both topics

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

Woman also have other things to think about , numerous topics to occupy their thoughts , whereas some men only think about sex and Israelis .

So, they become rampant on both topics

You should tell them about Trump, always an interesting topic.

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

And one last Thai twist before I call it a day. We should not forget the stigma and body shaming many women experience long before any bar enters the picture. Too dark, too fat, wrong shape, too poor, not pretty enough. Then along comes a fat ugly expat who, according to local mythology, must be rich, tells her she is beautiful and treats her like a princess.

But every culture has some version of the same story, poor girl meets rich man, Cinderella, rescue, status and romance all mixed together. Thailand is not unique, it just has its own version of the old Pretty Woman syndrome. Richard Gere and Julia Roberts did quite well selling us that story. 😄

Yes, many go to tourist areas, sleeping with one after another, hoping that one will take them away from this trade. the problem being, most are only there for a quickie, with no intentions of staying, although the girls are still hopeful. the same thing happens with teen girls, falling for BS from boys, until they are used so many times they look elsewhere , in this case, here, at foreigners, although it happens worldwide.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

So you are saying 70% of women who become prostitutes do so because they are coerced, forced or on drugs.

You are out of your mind.

Like i said, look it up, in many sources. AI isn't always wrong, as this can be researched.............Childhood Maltreatment and Trauma

• Childhood Sexual Abuse: Multiple multi-national studies indicate that between 60% and 90% of women and youth in prostitution experienced childhood sexual abuse or incest, often by a family member or trusted figure in the home

• Physical and Emotional Neglect: High rates of severe physical abuse, emotional maltreatment, and profound childhood neglect are heavily documented among individuals who enter the commercial sex trade at an early age.

• Child Welfare and Foster Care: Up to 70% of individuals in street-level and systemic prostitution report a history of placement in local authority care, group homes, or foster care, frequently driven by running away from abusive home environments.

Continuing Cycles of Violence

• Survival and Lack of Alternatives: Research shows that severe background trauma and economic marginalization leave individuals with deeply compromised self-worth and very few survival options.

• On-the-Job Victimization: Once inside the sex trade, high rates of physical assault and sexual violence continue; cross-national research reveals that over 70% are physically assaulted and more than 60% are raped or sexually assaulted by buyers or exploiters.

• Notice it said multiple national studies.

Edited Sunday at 07:08 AM2 days by fredwiggy

13 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

i've talked with them myself, and all said the same things. I worked in NYC and when I took lunches, I would be at shops and delis, and they would come up to me. i told them I was working but did ask them how they were doing. Every one i spoke with said, "how do you think, it sucks, I hate this job, most men are pigs, the money's good but I hate it, I worry about the police everyday, most johns are okay but one beat the crap out of me, one of my friends was killed by a john" and others. This is exactly what these studies are telling us.

What surprises me, Fred, for someone who has read a lot of psychology, is that you do not seem to recognise how sympathy and empathy can be used to influence people. I do not doubt that some of those girls, especially on the streets of New York, came from very difficult environments. But that does not mean they cannot also know which strings to pull to get an emotional reaction and take advantage of certain types of men. You find that everywhere, not only among prostitutes.

I have always stayed away from women who start by explaining their situation through unfortunate events and then put all the blame on the ex boyfriend for their present situation. Their story might be completely true, but I have learned not to confuse a story that creates sympathy with knowing the whole person.

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

What surprises me, Fred, for someone who has read a lot of psychology, is that you do not seem to recognise how sympathy and empathy can be used to influence people. I do not doubt that some of those girls, especially on the streets of New York, came from very difficult environments. But that does not mean they cannot also know which strings to pull to get an emotional reaction and take advantage of certain types of men. You find that everywhere, not only among prostitutes.

I have always stayed away from women who start by explaining their situation through unfortunate events and then put all the blame on the ex boyfriend for their present situation. Their story might be completely true, but I have learned not to confuse a story that creates sympathy with knowing the whole person.

Those are things that you read when you study the subject. I know how women act. years of experience with many with the only problem, falling for them from attraction. A covert narcissist woman is an expert in love bombing and pulling those strings until she has you hooked. Listen to Dr, Les carter's videos, and you'll see how many men who have empathy are the exact targets of these types of women. These women are secretive about their pasts and lie.As far as hookers, they learn what makes man happy, then use it, as they're getting paid surrounded by a lot of competition.

Edited Sunday at 07:07 AM2 days by fredwiggy

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, many go to tourist areas, sleeping with one after another, hoping that one will take them away from this trade. the problem being, most are only there for a quickie, with no intentions of staying, although the girls are still hopeful. the same thing happens with teen girls, falling for BS from boys, until they are used so many times they look elsewhere , in this case, here, at foreigners, although it happens worldwide.

Again, you forget to address the stigma created by society through norms, religion and good people creating an almost impossible environment to live up to, and then some take advantage of those who become vulnerable. It has been like this throughout history.

Still, you cannot take away the history that formed us. Men have something to offer women, and women have something to offer men, one way or another. Our civilised society tries to hide some of our basic biology, but the temptations are still there, and vulnerable people will sometimes be exploited. No 5,000 word thesis is going to change those facts.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Multiple multi-national studies indicate that between 60% and 90% of women and youth in prostitution experienced childhood sexual abuse or incest, often by a family member or trusted figure in the home

Because when they collate these numbers they tell the girl "Did he look at you in a suggestive way? Yes?" Then they mark "sexual abuse".

Because the "academics" collating these numbers have agendas and vested interests that it be so.

Human trafficking is very profitable, not for the traffickers, but those who claim to fight it.

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Up to 70% of individuals in street-level and systemic prostitution report a history of placement in local authority care

Yah, that sounds like a totally reliable number.

Like I said, you lack a capacity for critical thinking. That is one of your many problems.

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I've read on this for decades, ever since we had internet, as it's interesting and I've always seen women as equals that deserve respect and not to be used. Prostitution hurts all of them in one way or another. Only about 30% go into the trade from poverty, The rest are coerced, forced, on drugs or in debt. Most come from a background of abuse and or neglect. Some do see this as a money making deal, but you don't know what else is involved, and that's where those studies have shown more.

Sorry, I don't buy that. You are going to have to post peer-reviewed research, not vague generalizations. 70%?

AFAIK debt and poverty are a double-headed coin.

IMO it's only the streetwalkers that would have needle tracks. In the bars and shower massages, they would be kicked out very quickly if they were using.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I know how women act.

Let this be the last word!

Just now, Hummin said:

Again, you forget to address the stigma created by society through norms, religion and good people creating an almost impossible environment to live up to, and then some take advantage of those who become vulnerable. It has been like this throughout history.

Still, you cannot take away the history that formed us. Men have something to offer women, and women have something to offer men, one way or another. Our civilised society tries to hide some of our basic biology, but the temptations are still there, and vulnerable people will sometimes be exploited. No 5,000 word thesis is going to change those facts.

Look at what I've written all along on this subject. I know there are outside sources that affect this trade, but it's still the woman making choices, and where they come from is the major factor. Human traffickers, pimps, bars, boyfriends and men themselves all take advantage of their vulnerability.

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Sorry, I don't buy that. You are going to have to post peer-reviewed research, not vague generalizations. 70%?

AFAIK debt and poverty are a double-headed coin.

IMO it's only the streetwalkers that would have needle tracks. In the bars and shower massages, they would be kicked out very quickly if they were using.

I did mention this can be researched. I've likely posted 20 or more links on this subject all along. Some aren't around to read all of a person's replies, so they skim and miss things, which is a major reason you don't comment until you know the whole picture, exactly why I asked for readers to read the whole article here One link..............https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/prostitution-sexual-violence

That some will automatically dismiss it comes from many lines of thought. Only they know until they comment.One link about their violence......https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_prostitutes#Types_of_violence.

Drugs aren't only ingested by needles. If you take drugs, alcoholism, coercion, human trafficking and that childhood trauma out of the equation, there would be very few hookers available. https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/64627/pdf

Edited Sunday at 07:21 AM2 days by fredwiggy

Another link.................https://prostitutionresearch.com/quick-facts/

And another, involving human trafficking and more, which is still male dominance in another form. It's not about bar girls but still a part of the whole picture.....................https://nomas.org/trafficked-women-prostitution-sex-workers/.

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I did mention this can be researched. I've likely posted 20 or more links on this subject all along. Some aren't around to read all of a person's replies, so they skim and miss things, which is a major reason you don't comment until you know the whole picture, exactly why I asked for readers to read the whole article here.

That some will automatically dismiss it comes from many lines of thought. Only they know until they comment.

Drugs aren't only ingested by needles. If you take drugs, alcoholism, coercion, human trafficking and that childhood trauma out of the equation, there would be very few hookers available. https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/64627/pdf

There's research, and there's empirical evidence. I don't know about other countries, in Thailand it goes like this:

Boy gets girl pregnant in the village, does a runner. After the child is born, support is needed for mother and child/

She can stay in the village and earn 200 baht a day, or go to Bangkok or Pattaya and earn much more while grandparents care for the child. Most of the good-looking ones take option 2.

If you have ever sat in a bar, you would know the lady drinks customers purchase for them are non-alcoholic, unless the customer insists the lady drink is alcoholic too.

How much of your posting is what you see on the internet, and how much is lived experience?

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There's research, and there's empirical evidence. I don't know about other countries, in Thailand it goes like this:

Boy gets girl pregnant in the village, does a runner. After the child is born, support is needed for mother and child/

She can stay in the village and earn 200 baht a day, or go to Bangkok or Pattaya and earn much more while grandparents care for the child. Most of the good-looking ones take option 2.

If you have ever sat in a bar, you would know the lady drinks customers purchase for them are non-alcoholic, unless the customer insists the lady drink is alcoholic too.

How much of your posting is what you see on the internet, and how much is lived experience?

Researching for decades along with talking to quite a few while i worked in NYC in the 80's. Studies have been done for a long time, as those links showed. there are more, but then I'll be asked to provide things I already have on this forum.

Yes, a girl can earn a bit more in tourist areas than staying home and taking care of her kids, leaving them with grandma, where Thailand leads the world with 40% raised by them. seeing them a couple of times a year, which leaves those kids without proper supervision and rinse and repeat actions, along with 8 year olds driving scooters with two others on pillion, none wearing helmets. She will need to pay for accommodations in those tourist areas, which takes quite a bit out of that money, if she gets clients daily.

She can also stay home, making less, being with her kids daily, and those children proud of her, much like millions already do here.

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Billion dollar industries, like Big Pharma, will always have their detractors, and those who are for it, for profits also. Anyone could say her detractors are liars also.

So, if anyone can say whatever, why are you pushing so hard to be right every time? You just said the each side can refute the other side. That´s a huge contradiction compared to your reasoning and discussion technique.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/prostitution-sexual-violence

Do you even read your own links? That link in no way supports your claim that 70% of women who enter prostitution are "coerced, forced or on drugs".

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I've always told the truth here.

You've certainly not told the truth. You've regurgitated the lies by Andrea Dworkin, and misrepresented some internet links.

4 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

So, if anyone can say whatever, why are you pushing so hard to be right every time? You just said the each side can refute the other side. That´s a huge contradiction compared to your reasoning and discussion technique.

Try sticking to the topic. I posted an article, and have yet to see any evidence it's wrong, but attacks on me because I agree with much of what she says. Try looking at the article, and understand it, along with reading up on the subject with the many links I provided. Then you can come back and try to prove them wrong, with whatever you have stored. If you think women aren't dominated by men in prostitution, or that they aren't victims, let's hear your facts, as it's always the same thing from you.

Just now, Cameroni said:

You've certainly not told the truth. You've regurgitated the lies by Andrea Dworkin, and misrepresented some internet links.

I agree with much of what she wrote. Those links i provided I also agree with. Do you not understand that everyone here knows how you see women? Do you not understand how i do? I've been saying it for years, and still i get trolls trying to prove my truths wrong. It doesn't work as I was there. I misrepresented some links? I posted them for others to read. Up to you if you can understand them or not, or stay in denial of how you really think about women. Your words, like mine and all others, tell how you think. Am I wrong for wanting to see all decent women treated well, or are they all prostitutes dominating over men, which is crazy?

6 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Do you even read your own links? That link in no way supports your claim that 70% of women who enter prostitution are "coerced, forced or on drugs".

I've read everything I post. There was more. There is also the internet so you can find more. This topic is about men dominating over prostitutes, so stick with that first, then we can discuss others.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

I worry about the police everyday, most johns are okay but one beat the crap out of me, one of my friends was killed by a john" and others. This is exactly what these studies are telling us.

She told you her friend got killed by a John?

Many women get killed or beaten by their boyfriends or husbands.

I'm guessing the rates are 1000 times higher.

Probably many girls here go into the bar scene because of an abusive EX-boyfriend or husband.

What are you planning to do to save women in battered homes?

Strap on a Batman suit?

Edited Sunday at 08:10 AM2 days by save the frogs

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Mutual sex isn't abusing others. Yes, I had, have custody of all of the children, and the 5 are doing very well.

You stated I was smelly, without girlfriends, wives, children, and lonely, and you were wrong. That's the assumptions of a moron who thinks they know people here, or turn what they say around. That is ignorant , childish and yes, possibly jealous,as you can't fathom it being the truth.

Don't trash talk anyone and they won't have to tell you of their lifestyle. You weren't there.

Many folks here agree with me, and some don't. Some of those who don't are known trolls and misogynists, so that's self explanatory.

If you saw history, like you have, and still maintain this behavior, it's you that has the problem, as I'm usually helping others here or engaging in other discussions and only have the most trouble arguing with trolls, but not as long as I did before, as they're a waste of time, much as you are here.

The fact remains. I've always told the truth here. That you and a couple others think it's different is your problem. When you have evidence of wrongdoing, you can submit it. Seeing you haven't, stick to things you know about, whatever that might be, and don't troll here any longer. Advice, end the word salad and learn to use paragraphs, as your random crapola isn't going anywhere, at least until you can think of more of the same, much like our other two trolls.

32 minutes ago, novacova said:

You invite the “pathological liar/fantasy life” interpretation because your claims are extreme, impossible to check, and deployed as rhetorical weapons.

Edited Sunday at 08:12 AM2 days by novacova

Just now, save the frogs said:

She told you her friend got killed by a John?

Many women get killed by their boyfriends or husbands.

I'm guessing the rates are 1000 times higher.

Probably many girls here go into the bar scene because of an abusive EX-boyfriend or husband.

What are you planning to do to save women in battered homes?

Strap on a Batman suit?

It's easy to see how much violence is put towards prostitutes. that AI shows some, but there are the links I provided also.Domestic violence isn't the same as violence against prostitutes. These are non emotional situations, with some men from the start looking at these women as cattle to be used in whatever sexual way they want, and the girl has to go along with it. This is control over women they paid for.

In normal relationships, there is an emotional connection, where jealousy can come into play and cause havoc. There are countless times a prostitute is beaten by clients or pimps, along with the traffickers. There are those links to read, for anyone who bothers, so they see more of the truth and not just their own opinions because they like hookers. Ask yourself what's better. A man who looks at women as equals or one who sees them as objects. I can't save anyone besides those I'm connected with, and they don't have to worry about me................https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugRNy3-OIOI.

Edited Sunday at 08:20 AM2 days by fredwiggy