6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Domestic violence isn't the same as violence against prostitutes. These are non emotional situations, with some men from the start looking at these women as cattle to be used in whatever sexual way they want, and the girl has to go along with it. This is control over women they paid for.

What difference does it make what the motivation is for a man beating a woman?

You seem to more interested in proving that you're right about "male control" than giving a toss about the battered women.

I don't care about your "male control" hypothesis.

I'm in the wrong thread maybe then.

I agree with much of what she wrote.

So you agree with a documented LIAR, FRAUDSTER, heroin smuggler and lesbian. Who claimed 9 million women were killed as witches, when it was really around 40,000.

Well, that's completely up to you of course.

You also claimed 70% of women who enter prostitution do so because they are forced or corced. Which is certainly also not the truth. And then post some link that in no way supports that claim.

This thread has been a skit-show from start to finish.

23 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Up to you if you can understand them or not

Oh, I understand the link, but it's becoming increasingly clear that you don't. That link does not support your claim that 70% of women who enter prostitution are coerced or forced.

24 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Am I wrong for wanting to see all decent women treated well, or are they all prostitutes dominating over men, which is crazy?

You are saying all the prostitutes are "decent women"?

10 minutes ago, novacova said:

11 minutes ago, novacova said:

That I treat my women and children well is extreme? That I support all women is extreme? That I worked out for 50 years is extreme?

That you think this is extreme shows your life might not be a good one, and jealousy creeps into the lives of men who haven't the ability to treat women well, so they'll dismiss others who are capable. if you've been a couch potato all your life and know nothing about nutrition or exercise is on you, as I've spent a lot of time giving advice on those here, as it's been my life all along.

Fact is, I have told the truth all along. That you can't believe this means nothing. I don't give a rat's arse what anyone thinks that's only here to bait and troll others, as that's a mental illness that's on you and them. Sdults don't act like that, so look to your past to see why you do.

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

So you agree with a documented LIAR, FRAUDSTER, heroin smuggler and lesbian. Who claimed 9 million women were killed as witches, when it was really around 40,000.

Well, that's completely up to you of course.

You also claimed 70% of women who enter prostitution do so because they are forced or corced. Which is certainly also not the truth. And then post some link that in no way supports that claim.

This thread has been a skit-show from start to finish.

Oh, I understand the link, but it's becoming increasingly clear that you don't. That link does not support your claim that 70% of women who enter prostitution are coerced or forced.

You are saying all the prostitutes are "decent women"?

It's best that you actually read all of the story, and the links, and not respond from your own thinking on women, as that's been skewed all along, even if you haven't noticed. When you quote someone, make sure you understand what they've said. I've said all along many women are evil, and some are prostitutes. I don't spend any time with them, but see them as damaged goods, although still women, with much of the same wants and needs as all other women.

I didn't post this article without any prior knowledge of the trade, as it's easily researched, and i do go by what the professionals say, along with listening to articles like this one.

You automatically put her into a heroin user who's fat and a lesbian. Why would this mean she's wrong in everything she wrote? She's a little extreme, which also doesn't correlate into being wrong. Do you not see what you've said in all your replies on this forum? Some of us have good memories, and remember. Look at what you said in this topic alone.

I'm still here, supporting decent women. I don't support the liars, abusers, neglecters, cheats and con artists, so you can take that out of your thinking. Prostitutes are victims of one thing or another, period. if you want more evidence, read what I posted or look more up, if you really care to see the truth.

10 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

What difference does it make what the motivation is for a man beating a woman?

You seem to more interested in proving that you're right about "male control" than giving a toss about the battered women.

I don't care about your "male control" hypothesis.

I'm in the wrong thread maybe then.

Where have i said I'm not interested in battered women? I'm against all violence towards women. I've been arguing against some here who have strayed from the topic at hand and gone after me because I said I believe in much of what she wrote. Instead of trying to prove her wrong, it's been about me. Men control women in many ways. This is but one of them.The more some here talk, the more they show how they feel about women in general, and again, that has nothing to do with me.

Edited Sunday at 08:40 AM2 days by fredwiggy

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

She's a little extreme

Oh because she said all sex is rape or because she claimed 9 million dead in the witch hunts?

Yet you, a man, still quotes Dworkin. A documented liar.

Maybe look in the mirror a bit.

19 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

So you agree with a documented LIAR, FRAUDSTER, heroin smuggler and lesbian. Who claimed 9 million women were killed as witches, when it was really around 40,000.

Well, that's completely up to you of course.

You also claimed 70% of women who enter prostitution do so because they are forced or corced. Which is certainly also not the truth. And then post some link that in no way supports that claim.

This thread has been a skit-show from start to finish.

Oh, I understand the link, but it's becoming increasingly clear that you don't. That link does not support your claim that 70% of women who enter prostitution are coerced or forced.

You are saying all the prostitutes are "decent women"?

Here is some more evidence on the whys, which shows 52% entered because of poverty, although it still doesn't show their past history of that demographic........The younger ones being more vulnerable Forced or talked into (coerced) adds up

Overall, 73.2% of women entered the sex trade to get drugs, 35.6% of women entered to get basic necessities such as food or housing, and 17.2% of women entered to support their children or family (Table 2). Of significance, 20.8% of those aged < 18 years at entry reported being either coerced, threatened, pressured, misled, tricked, or physically forced into trading sex compared to 4.6% in those who entered at an older age group (p value < 0.001). Additionally, 28.3% of those aged < 18 years at age of entry reported earning extra spending money as a reason compared to 14.2% in those 18 years or older at entry (p value 0.02). The most cited relationship of the person that introduced them to the sex trade was a current sex worker that was not a family member (35.7%)...................https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7305278/

Edited Sunday at 08:56 AM2 days by fredwiggy

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Oh because she said all sex is rape or because she claimed 9 million dead in the witch hunts?

Yet you, a man, still quotes Dworkin. A documented liar.

Maybe look in the mirror a bit.

Have you not lied and always told the truth? Who cares about the witch hunts? She has her opinions on some things and uses facts on others, much like most everyone else.Did you read the whole article? What do you disagree with in it, or just take sides against her because she's been a little extreme on some things?

Edited Sunday at 08:58 AM2 days by fredwiggy

37 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

That I treat my women and children well is extreme? That I support all women is extreme? That I worked out for 50 years is extreme?

That you think this is extreme shows your life might not be a good one, and jealousy creeps into the lives of men who haven't the ability to treat women well, so they'll dismiss others who are capable. if you've been a couch potato all your life and know nothing about nutrition or exercise is on you, as I've spent a lot of time giving advice on those here, as it's been my life all along.

Fact is, I have told the truth all along. That you can't believe this means nothing. I don't give a rat's arse what anyone thinks that's only here to bait and troll others, as that's a mental illness that's on you and them. Sdults don't act like that, so look to your past to see why you do.

…and lashes out with heightened defensiveness when claims are questioned. Tendency to moralize disagreements and frame critics as inferior or motivated by bad faith, recognizable features of vulnerable/compensatory narcissism or simply fragile self-esteem defended by grandiosity.

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Researching for decades along with talking to quite a few while i worked in NYC in the 80's. Studies have been done for a long time, as those links showed. there are more, but then I'll be asked to provide things I already have on this forum.

Yes, a girl can earn a bit more in tourist areas than staying home and taking care of her kids, leaving them with grandma, where Thailand leads the world with 40% raised by them. seeing them a couple of times a year, which leaves those kids without proper supervision and rinse and repeat actions, along with 8 year olds driving scooters with two others on pillion, none wearing helmets. She will need to pay for accommodations in those tourist areas, which takes quite a bit out of that money, if she gets clients daily.

She can also stay home, making less, being with her kids daily, and those children proud of her, much like millions already do here.

You are posting your experience in NYC. That's a long way from, and a different culture to Thailand.

There is no safety net in Thailand for the disadvantaged. The family is the only support system.

You are demonstrating your ignorance when you say women need to pay for accommodations which take quite a bit out of the money. They are renting rooms and sharing costs, rooms on the seedier side of town go for 2000-3000 baht/month. They can make that in a single night.

24 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Men control women in many ways.

Yeah, that seems to be your main obsession.

I wonder why.

Are you sure you don't have control issues yourself?

Are you sure these working girls don't make you feel threatened in some way because they are too independent and don't need to rely on any one man controlling them?

There are literally guys sending messages to working girls on dating apps telling them to get out of that work and go work at 7/11. But I'm not convinced it's for altruistic reasons. Who know why these guys are really doing this.

And anyway, control by men is taking place in many relationships too. So what do you propose? Shut down the bar scene? And then half the girls go back to their abusive husbands?

Edited Sunday at 09:14 AM2 days by save the frogs

2 minutes ago, novacova said:

…and lashes out with heightened defensiveness when claims are questioned. Tendency to moralize disagreements and frame critics as inferior or motivated by bad faith, recognizable features of vulnerable/compensatory narcissism or simply fragile self-esteem defended by grandiosity.

Still doesn't change the facts, which is something you fail to understand. Give it a rest. You're wrong. Stop trolling unless you have evidence otherwise.

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yeah, that seems to be your main obsession.

I wonder why.

Are you sure you don't have control issues yourself?

Are you sure these working girls don't make you feel threatened in some way because they are too independent and don't need to rely on any one man controlling them?

There are literally guys sending messages to working girls on dating apps telling them to get out of that work and go work at 7/11. But I'm not convinced it's for altruistic reasons. Who know why these guys are really doing this.

It's an obsession wanting to see women treated well? No, I've never been a controlling person. No, working girls don't make me feel threatened and why would they if i don't interact with them? Do you not realize that supporting prostitution has you in a category? Think of what that means when proof shows how they're being treated. I provided links, easy to read. Providing for a wife and children isn't control. it's a husband and father's job. Who knows why anyone here thinks they way they do? I provided an article so members could tell how they feel, and making it about me isn't the objective any should have. All Ive said all along is what people say shows how they feel about things.

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You are posting your experience in NYC. That's a long way from, and a different culture to Thailand.

There is no safety net in Thailand for the disadvantaged. The family is the only support system.

You are demonstrating your ignorance when you say women need to pay for accommodations which take quite a bit out of the money. They are renting rooms and sharing costs, rooms on the seedier side of town go for 2000-3000 baht/month. They can make that in a single night.

Give it a rest on your insults, as they've never been valid, and your assuming is starting to mirror the trolls. I started talking to prostitutes back then, which gave me an idea. then I researched when the internet came around, always being a supporter of women. Women get into prostitution worldwide for the same reasons, albeit a little more in poor countries because of poverty.

Telling me things I've known for decades doesn't help either. Do you think every prostitute out there makes her needed daily quota? if you do, you must be asking them all, as those studies are a lot more believable than a person who, like you said, doesn't have the experience.

Much easier to curb the tongue and research instead of going by your opinion, which isn't any more valid than anyone else, and not in the running with the professionals who interviewed those thousands of women. Find a study on Thailand, like i did in an earlier topic, and you'll see what it also said.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

It's an obsession wanting to see women treated well? No, I've never been a controlling person. No, working girls don't make me feel threatened and why would they if i don't interact with them? Do you not realize that supporting prostitution has you in a category? Think of what that means when proof shows how they're being treated. I provided links, easy to read. Providing for a wife and children isn't control. it's a husband and father's job. Who knows why anyone here thinks they way they do? I provided an article so members could tell how they feel, and making it about me isn't the objective any should have. All Ive said all along is what people say shows how they feel about things.

Yeah, ok.

So your plan is to shut down all the bars.

And then move the girls where?

They all get jobs at 7-11?

And go back to their former husbands?

So now the girls all move back in with their ex-husbands.

What if 20% of their ex-husbands were Yaba addicts and wife beaters though?

Have you solved anything in your quest to liberate women from male domination?

You refuse to admit how abusive many traditional marriages are.

In fact, so much so that you project all the world's vomit onto the prostitution scene.

Edited Sunday at 09:30 AM2 days by save the frogs

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Give it a rest on your insults, as they've never been valid, and your assuming is starting to mirror the trolls. I started talking to prostitutes back then, which gave me an idea. then I researched when the internet came around, always being a supporter of women. Women get into prostitution worldwide for the same reasons, albeit a little more in poor countries because of poverty.

Telling me things I've known for decades doesn't help either. Do you think every prostitute out there makes her needed daily quota? if you do, you must be asking them all, as those studies are a lot more believable than a person who, like you said, doesn't have the experience.

Much easier to curb the tongue and research instead of going by your opinion, which isn't any more valid than anyone else, and not in the running with the professionals who interviewed those thousands of women. Find a study on Thailand, like i did in an earlier topic, and you'll see what it also said.

I don't see any need to curb my tongue with a guy who has insulted me. IIRC you said you were smarter than me, with zero evidence.

The figure I posted is from knowledge of how poorer Thais live in cities. The figure I posted for room rental is real. Post a refutation, if you can find one.

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yeah, ok.

So your plan is to shut down all the bars.

And then move the girls where?

They all get jobs at 7-11?

And go back to their former husbands?

Because there aren't that many options for sex.

Either you have sex in a marriage or you pay for 1 hour.

So now the girls all move back in with their ex-husbands.

What if 20% of their ex-husbands were Yaba addicts and wife beaters though?

Have you solved anything?

You refuse to admit how dysfunctional and abusive traditional families are.

In fact, so much so that you project all the world's vomit onto the prostitution scene.

Bars aren't just for hookers. Men will still go to them if there's a TV with football on. Of course that would end pattaya as a tourist destination. I'm not here to stop prostitution, as that'll never happen. I'm just pointing out what goes on. Yes, where would the girls go if it stopped? Back with their husbands, boyfriends and children, showing them pride and a better way of life.

I guess you don't realize just how few the number of prostitutes is compared to those who aren't in Thailand alone.

Yes, sex in a relationship is much better than paying for it, with that chance of STD's much higher, especially here, clients that look at hookers as meat, much higher than boyfriends or husbands do, although they also are guilty.

Where have I said I don't know how dysfunctional regular relationships can be? I've read the books, written by dozens of psychologists and counselors, that tell everything about the dynamics of interpersonal relationships. Best to step back and look at what I've been saying all along in many topics here, so you can see how i think and why.

Granted, some men haven't taken care of themselves so need to pay for it, but that's on them, as they had options.

If I could flick a switch and stop the trade, and see all the women back where they belong I would, but what would happen to the men who think they can control women and do whatever they like? What would they do about finding sex? It would certainly save many lives that are taken by johns and traffickers. It would put an extreme dent on tourism here. I guess morality doesn't mean that much, that women are all whores that should be used. A few here seem to think so. I'm not one of them.

Edited Sunday at 09:41 AM2 days by fredwiggy

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Try sticking to the topic. I posted an article, and have yet to see any evidence it's wrong, but attacks on me because I agree with much of what she says. Try looking at the article, and understand it, along with reading up on the subject with the many links I provided. Then you can come back and try to prove them wrong, with whatever you have stored. If you think women aren't dominated by men in prostitution, or that they aren't victims, let's hear your facts, as it's always the same thing from you.

You never want any facts, because in your mind, you have already posted the facts. You are even, amazingly, happy with how you presented the information. 😂

Just now, Gottfrid said:

You never want any facts, because in your mind, you have already posted the facts. You are even, amazingly, happy with how you presented the information. 😂

No, I always accept the facts. Fact is, I won't accept opinions unless they mirror those facts. Again, seeing you keep missing it. post a rebuttal instead of one liners that have nothing to do with answering the article. If you read it, and disagree with anything, tell why. if you haven't read it, read it or choose another topic.

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't see any need to curb my tongue with a guy who has insulted me. IIRC you said you were smarter than me, with zero evidence.

The figure I posted is from knowledge of how poorer Thais live in cities. The figure I posted for room rental is real. Post a refutation, if you can find one.

I insulted you? Are you forgetting what you've said to me many times, acting superior with no basis? Showing you you were wrong had me say I was smarter, along with a person who makes assumptions like you do, not showing intelligence but a nasty attitude.

The only post with you where i was off was the average age of death in Australia vs. the US, off by 2. Big deal, and not a reason to call someone an idiot.

I already knew how Thais lived long before I moved here, having many Thai friends in Texas and New Jersey. You're assuming that they make enough money to warrant staying away from their families and I stated they could easily get a job and stay home with their children and or families, and work local. it's an excuse many use to get away from responsibility, as Thais have told me this for years, before I came here.

If you want information about what prostitutes go through, I provided it. the article had some, and the links had more. there are many others available if you want to know more.

20 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yeah, ok.

So your plan is to shut down all the bars.

And then move the girls where?

They all get jobs at 7-11?

And go back to their former husbands?

So now the girls all move back in with their ex-husbands.

What if 20% of their ex-husbands were Yaba addicts and wife beaters though?

Have you solved anything in your quest to liberate women from male domination?

You refuse to admit how abusive many traditional marriages are.

In fact, so much so that you project all the world's vomit onto the prostitution scene.

Some do not have a husband to go back to. Their problem is a boyfriend who did a runner after they got pregnant.

Or there's the lady in her sixties who runs my massage shop. Her husband kicked her out at age 30, saying she was no longer beautiful.

She still cares for her 90 yo mother, just shelled out 35K baht for two nights' stay in Overbrook Hospital.

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Back with their husbands, boyfriends and children, showing them pride and a better way of life.

No, no, no, no, no.

That's exactly the point.

There is no fairy tale husband waiting for them back home, for many.

It's ok. Take the time you need to grasp this. There's no hurry.

I'm outta here.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I insulted you? Are you forgetting what you've said to me many times, acting superior with no basis? Showing you you were wrong had me say I was smarter, along with a person who makes assumptions like you do, not showing intelligence but a nasty attitude.

The only post with you where i was off was the average age of death in Australia vs. the US, off by 2. Big deal, and not a reason to call someone an idiot.

I already knew how Thais lived long before I moved here, having many Thai friends in Texas and New Jersey. You're assuming that they make enough money to warrant staying away from their families and I stated they could easily get a job and stay home with their children and or families, and work local. it's an excuse many use to get away from responsibility, as Thais have told me this for years, before I came here.

If you want information about what prostitutes go through, I provided it. the article had some, and the links had more. there are many others available if you want to know more.

Again, deflection. No evidence. Prove you are smarter than me. Run that past me about acting superior again.

If you want to rescue sex workers from their plight, start a GoFundMe. Let's see how many contributors you get.

16 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I insulted you? Are you forgetting what you've said to me many times, acting superior with no basis? Showing you you were wrong had me say I was smarter, along with a person who makes assumptions like you do, not showing intelligence but a nasty attitude.

The only post with you where i was off was the average age of death in Australia vs. the US, off by 2. Big deal, and not a reason to call someone an idiot.

I already knew how Thais lived long before I moved here, having many Thai friends in Texas and New Jersey. You're assuming that they make enough money to warrant staying away from their families and I stated they could easily get a job and stay home with their children and or families, and work local. it's an excuse many use to get away from responsibility, as Thais have told me this for years, before I came here.

If you want information about what prostitutes go through, I provided it. the article had some, and the links had more. there are many others available if you want to know more.

Has it occurred to you your Thai friends in Texas and New Jersey are not from a rural Thai village, but are well educated and affluent? What do they know of living in poverty?

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Has it occurred to you your Thai friends in Texas and New Jersey are not from a rural Thai village, but are well educated and affluent? What do they know of living in poverty?

The friends were from Isaan and North Thailand, with one from Korat. They only affluence they have is being brought to the US by husbands.

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Again, deflection. No evidence. Prove you are smarter than me. Run that past me about acting superior again.

If you want to rescue sex workers from their plight, start a GoFundMe. Let's see how many contributors you get.

There is no way to prove intelligence on an online forum. You can spot some things but people are deceptive for many reasons. You can google immediately and try to show you know things, or show them from memory, and no one could ever know. That's why I said give it a rest, as calling names isn't showing our age level. I know what I know, and you'd be surprised how much I do know. i could say the same about you.

10 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Whoever told you you were good for nothing on this forum, don't pay any attention to these clowns.

How can you be sure they are clowns? Maybe they are just frog lovers?

24 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

No, no, no, no, no.

That's exactly the point.

There is no fairy tale husband waiting for them back home, for many.

It's ok. Take the time you need to grasp this. There's no hurry.

I'm outta here.

Grasp what? I provided evidence for things here, and knew this for decades, and it hasn't gotten anything but worse with the increase in human trafficking. I will always see these women as victims, and I did the research. There are millions of women here who work legit jobs, and a few reasons, along with excuses, for entering the trade. there are always options, and in the case of children involved, no other option besides staying home with them. At least in Thailand you can usually stay with family.

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

There is no way to prove intelligence on an online forum. You can spot some things but people are deceptive for many reasons. You can google immediately and try to show you know things, or show them from memory, and no one could ever know. That's why I said give it a rest, as calling names isn't showing our age level. I know what I know, and you'd be surprised how much I do know. i could say the same about you.

Agreed. I think you'd be surprised by what I know, and what I have achieved. But there is no way of providing proof in an online forum, while staying anonymous.

I can’t believe this same circular pissing match about tarts is still going on among the same handful of bickerers, accomplishing absolutely nothing except generating enough hot air to heat an entire short-time bar in the Arctic. What is it, day 3 already?