Constructive Suggestions About Thai Immigration Policy

[Jingthing]

I guess at the moment they might actually regret this visa because basically they don't want a big influx of older people retiring here.

Could be. On the other hand, the retirement extension option is on the books, so I don't think any of us can read minds about the intentions either way.

Anyway, I have another suggestion:

Retirement Extension Option for those between age 30 and 50, requiring 50 percent more money

There are lots of younger retirees in the world. There are lots of younger people who only want to take a break for a few years. And, then of course, there are the under age 50 spouses of those over 50 on retirement extensions. So, there is a big need for a long term visa option for younger retirees.

Now, I could say, just lower the age requirement, and I have no problem with that, but given that there is an age requirement, we have to assume Thai immigration does have a problem with it.

So, what is a possible solution? Allow those age 30 to 50 to apply for retirement extensions but only if they can show a bank account, income stream, or a combo 50 percent more than for those over 50. In other words, 1.2 million baht for those aged 30 to 50, versus 800K for those over 50.

Why the extra money? Well, first of all a benefit for Thailand to include this new class. Many would use the bank account method and thus an easy source of hard currency for Thai banks. Secondly, logic. Retirement is traditionally for the older. The older generally have less time on earth than the younger, so the younger need more money to take care of themselves because they statistically have more years. Thirdly, this two tiered system, more money required of the younger group is an established practice in other countries offering retirement programs (for example, the Philippines and others).

Note: I could have said no lower end age limit. I just thought starting at age 30 is an easier sell than starting at age 18.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

Always been nice to me, but it would be good it "permanent residents" could feel a little more permanent i.e. being able to buy 1 Rai of land for a house, rather than being forced to live in Condo's or Rent a house. Given the rate of new approvals for PR, and the attrition rate, it would have a very small impact on land prices.

Other than that, happyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Agreed. 5 years continuous (back to back) stay due to "retirement" qualifies farang to irrevocable PR and the legal right to own one rai of land freehold for domestic purposes (i.e. to live on, not rent, farm or perform any type of business).

(Where's the flying pig smiley?)

[Jingthing]

Agreed. 5 years continuous (back to back) stay due to "retirement" qualifies farang to irrevocable PR and the legal right to own one rai of land freehold for domestic purposes (i.e. to live on, not rent, farm or perform any type of business).

(Where's the flying pig smiley?)

We have a dream!

Edited September 4, 2007 by Jingthing

[JR Texas]

Agreed. 5 years continuous (back to back) stay due to "retirement" qualifies farang to irrevocable PR and the legal right to own one rai of land freehold for domestic purposes (i.e. to live on, not rent, farm or perform any type of business).

(Where's the flying pig smiley?)

We have a dream!

All of the policy changes since 1998 should be abrogated. A pay-to-stay system should be implemented for long-stay tourists that do not want to work or get married to a Thai citizen. For example, $250 gets you three months; $500 gets you six months; $1000 gets you 12 months.

For long-stay tourists that want to remain in the Kingdom longer than one year, create another visa category for them like "expat visa."

Stop all border run requirements and allow foreigners to take care of immigration issues at any immigration office inside Thailand. Introduce consistency in terms of policy implementation at all Thai embassies and consulates.

Stop all 90 day reporting.....the initial security check is more than enough.

Allow foreigners that marry a Thai citizen and/or have a Thai child to live indefinitely in the Kingdom without any monthly income requirement.

Allow foreigners that purchase a condo to stay in the Kingdom on the aforementioned "expat visa."

If security is an issue, allow the foreigner to get a "security statement" from his local embassy in Bangkok (certified) that will satisfy Thai authorities that he is not a threat to the Kingdom (very simple solution to the security issue).

And while I am at it, abrogate all of the business rules to make it easy for a foreigner to set up a small business in the Kingdom (make the playing field level). This will greatly improve the economy.

[wpcoe]

This is a quote of what I posted in another thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=138104 (post #66, to put it in context) a few months ago:

Double the fees and make the visa/extension for two years, or triple the fees and make it three years, etc. In such a way, they would maintain the same (apparently lucrative) income flow, but actually decrease costs.

I, for one, would gladly pay double the fee for a retirement extension with a two-year permission to stay. Or, even better, five times the fee for a five-year permission to stay.

For those who balk at committing to two or five years (or whatever multiple) they could keep the current one-year extension as an option.

I would like to incorporate to that suggestion, something that was suggested above: To be eligible for a longer-term visa, one must first demonstrate their dependability and desirability by first obtaining a one-year permission to stay.

Perhaps after a five-year permission to stay has expired, a longer (ten-year or lifetime?) option would be offered?

I also think the concept of "grandfathering" conditions of a visa/extension must be core to Thai Immigrations policy. e.g. If I qualify this year for a retirement extension with income of B800,000 at 50 years of age, but in a subsequent year those qualifications were increased (e.g. income of B1,000,000, age of 55 years), the an applicant who qualified on the earlier qualifications would continue to be granted the extension, provided future extensions are continuous, i.e. they do not let the visa/extension lapse.

[jinjok]

i had already emailed philippine tourism with some suggestions to draw more expats

no ticket out - show money/cards

simple/cheap multi visa

combat petty crime

reduce airport scams

reduce housing/hotel costs

stable intl cost for flights

these are basically the only real impairment to floods of foreigners heading for the islands.

philippines needs incentives. thailand does not, thats why we all stick around. my biggest gripe with phils is costs getting there, costs for room/hotel/gh (of course, the food sucks). i am already considering 6 mos in phils and may have a look (again) mid october.

jr - no one is going to pay us1000 to stay here. the total max fine for overstay now is only b20k i think.

the solution is simple - show money B500K for a year visa. i only spent 2/3 of that. obtain visa only in home country for TR long stay.

ps: i already have a ten year visa for india (6mos, no reporting <180days) cost was b6000

Edited September 5, 2007 by jinjok

[Jingthing]

Another suggestion for Thai immigration: Major overhaul of ONLINE address reporting system.

Here goes:

Long term expats who want to report online can go to immigration and fill out a form, request for address reporting PIN number, and receive said PIN for 1000 baht. This PIN is good for one year, until the next visa extension.

With this PIN, expats can logon to national immigration website and file address reports on all due dates and receive an instant email confirmation number and small form. Expat is to print out this confirmation number and form and keep in his passport. The email confirmation also informs the expat of the exact date of the next reporting deadline.

With this system, Thai immigration has the online reporting system FUNDED by the expats themselves (there is no charge when reporting in person), and the expats receive the much desired convenience of reporting ONLINE.

Any expat using the system who fails to report online by the due date forfeits his PIN and must report in person and pay the fine.

Sound good?

Edited October 15, 2007 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

Another suggestion for Thai immigration: Major overhaul of ONLINE address reporting system.

Here goes:

Long term expats who want to report online can go to immigration and fill out a form, request for address reporting PIN number, and receive said PIN for 1000 baht. This PIN is good for one year, until the next visa extension.

With this PIN, expats can logon to national immigration website and file address reports on all due dates and receive an instant email confirmation number and small form. Expat is to print out this confirmation number and form and keep in his passport. The email confirmation also informs the expat of the exact date of the next reporting deadline.

With this system, Thai immigration has the online reporting system FUNDED by the expats themselves (there is no charge when reporting in person), and the expats receive the much desired convenience of reporting ONLINE.

Any expat using the system who fails to report online by the due date forfeits his PIN and must report in person and pay the fine.

Sound good?

How about just getting rid of the 90 days report.

Sounds better.

[Jingthing]

How about just getting rid of the 90 days report.

Sounds better.

Yes, better. But they seem to want it.

[YangYaiEric]

I am also happy complying with all fair, reasonable and well thought out rules and regulations and only ask that anyone who has maintained upto date back to back visas for a number of years and have complied with the rules and regulations be given some consideration in the form of longer term visas so that at least we feel a little more secure and not living on a knife edge worrying what might change regarding the rules next week, next month or next time we apply for an extension.

I totally agree - as I said on another thread and would request Immigration to consider:

How about a 2, 3 or even 5 year Retirement extension after the first one? In other words, we Farang arrive in Thailand, do what we need to do to retire, behave well for a year (as most people do) and be rewarded and trusted with a longer extension. This could go hand in hand with the path towards PR giving serious retirees a chance to prove ourselves, learn some Thai etc.

Hear! Hear! Quite agree with you on that VBF. A one year probationary period followed by an extension lasting several years(2 - 5) would be ideal for many retirees.

YangYai.

[marginline]

Another suggestion for Thai immigration: Major overhaul of ONLINE address reporting system.

Here goes:

Long term expats who want to report online can go to immigration and fill out a form, request for address reporting PIN number, and receive said PIN for 1000 baht. This PIN is good for one year, until the next visa extension.

With this PIN, expats can logon to national immigration website and file address reports on all due dates and receive an instant email confirmation number and small form. Expat is to print out this confirmation number and form and keep in his passport. The email confirmation also informs the expat of the exact date of the next reporting deadline.

With this system, Thai immigration has the online reporting system FUNDED by the expats themselves (there is no charge when reporting in person), and the expats receive the much desired convenience of reporting ONLINE.

Any expat using the system who fails to report online by the due date forfeits his PIN and must report in person and pay the fine.

Sound good?

I like this idea of yours Jingthing; it's very creative and looks like you've put a lot of thought into providing a workable solution (self-funded by expats to boot!) that would be extremely feasible for both parties.

I hope you're reading this Thai Immigration!

[sriracha john]

I hope you're reading this Thai Immigration!

Immigration's response:

//Edit: Inappropriate comment removed. While it is the Immigration Bureau's understandable response not to engage in a discussion on a forum this does not necessarily mean that they do not take constructive suggestions into account. - Maestro

Edited October 16, 2007 by Maestro
Added edit note - Maestro

[fauxie]

I'm always very polite and curteous and would really appreciate this being reciprocated, every single time if possible, like at Denny's in the US. It's a service industry like any other. I'm spending money and expect the appropriate treatment. If all is in order the transaction should be fun and rewarding for both parties. Being made to feel like I'm dangling by my feet awaiting judgment on whether I 'deserve' to be given a visa, extension or whatever, is wholly uncomfortable. If my stuff is in order it's a formality and there is no judgment to be made. It's automatic, so please regard is as such and shoot me a smile as you handle my documents and give me the service I'm paying for. You're doing your job and I am the customer. I would surely not size you up and consider whether you 'deserve' to use a particular golf ball if you were to one day wander into 'Fauxie's Happy Shack of Golf Gear' looking to get a little extra distance on your drives. Thank you.

But in all seriousness, just approachability is what I'm after. Being able to talk openly with immigration officers about conditions of visas, what can and can't be done, to ask questions and receive full, informative answers. This makes it easier for everybody. Just telling the lady why my face looks pained at passport control when she stamps randomly in the middle of my passport is really tough, and I form my sentences carefully and put them forth politely. I'd just like more information and easier dialogue about visas with immigration officers. And a smile.

Edit: Perhaps I was a tad harsh in my tone. It betrays my treatment though. Cause and effect.

Edited October 16, 2007 by fauxie

[Heng]

I'd imagine that any immigration police officer visiting this site would probably click on that Thai Love Links banner and be whisked off to that site before finding time to actually read anything in the forums. Some good suggestions so far though (and no doubt therapeutic at the very least).

[moe666]

After reading this forum for sometime I think that if immigration actually made changes in the various requirements people would soon be complaining and wanting more.

[baboon]

Look, its really very simple.

1. Decide what the rules are going to be for the next 5 - 10 years and stick with it. Do not wake up with a hangover and decide to move the goalposts.

2. Issue a definative guide as to which visas apply to which circumstances and stick with it. Maybe a few people will lose out to begin with but eventually everyone will know exactly where they stand, which will also benefit you.

3. Ensure your own staff are fully aware of the rules and stick with them.

4. Apply the rules fairly and consistantly accross the board at every office/mission. Why do I qualify for a visa in Penang [for example] but not Manila? Surely an application is an application is an application?

5. Allow a fair and transparent system of appeal.

Just a thought.

[baboon]

After reading this forum for sometime I think that if immigration actually made changes in the various requirements people would soon be complaining and wanting more.

Human nature its called.

[Artisi]

After reading this forum for sometime I think that if immigration actually made changes in the various requirements people would soon be complaining and wanting more.

Agreed, some people would never be satisfied, but I think it is fair to say that, those of us here for the "long haul" would be satisfied with fair, reasonable and transparent rules which are applied consistantly each year when you apply for your visa extension.

[Heng]

Open up Thai Immigration Police branches in all the major shopping centers nationwide. Shouldn't be too hard to do once all the data is archived and online. 1,900 renewal time? Well you can get the same thing while the wife or hubby is shopping at the Mall wherever for 2,900... no need to make the trek down to Soi Suan Phlu. Just a handful of renewals and you've paid the rent... the rest is purple ink gravy.

[TaoNow]

While most of the suggestions here are reasonable, I think they may fall on deaf ears at Immigration for the following reason: Almost certainly, Immigration makes its rules (regarding long-term stay) *not* with the farang ex-pat in mind, but out of concern about the potential influx of people from its lower-income neighbors (Burma, Laos, Cambodia). In the same way, the US is probably more concerned about immigration from Mexico than it is from Canada, and makes its rules accordingly.

I have one comment on Jingthing's (reasonable) suggestion that condo owners on retirement extensions should only need to post 400,000 baht (since no need to pay rent). My sense is that the 800,000 baht requirement is not about estimated living expenses. I don't think Immigration cares how much a retired foreigner spends a month. Instead, they want to make sure that if there is some catastrophic accident, or mishap, the foreigner has enough to cover uninsured medical costs, or legal fees, or whatever, in order to rectify the situation. The evidence for this is that Immigration does not require proof that a retiree transfers 65,000 a month into Thailand; they just ask for a verified statement that you have the ability to do so if need be.

[PeaceBlondie]

Agreeing with TaoNow, that Immigration's policies are geared more to prevent a flood of poor people from neighboring countries. But the pension income rule is a bit odd, actually. I know farang pensioners who run down to the last 100 baht the night before the pension is posted in their bank account, and couldn't pay for one night at Bumrungrad or Chiang Mai Ram on that night.

Heng's suggestion to open additional branch offices is surely applicable to Bangkok, which could have 5 locations around the metro area. Our office in Chiang Mai, next to the airport, is not easy to access from the opposite end of town.

[Somtham]

Dear Immigration Officer,

I am an American citizen and my wife is Thai. The USA has issued my Thai wife a 10 year visa with no 90 reporting.

Please reciprocate.

Thank you

[sbk]

The OP has asked for constructive suggestions that stay on topic

Please respect these wishes or you will find your posts deleted. I have already had to delete off-topic posts

[JetsetBkk]

Heng's suggestion to open additional branch offices is surely applicable to Bangkok, which could have 5 locations around the metro area.

Couldn't agree more. Suan Phlu is ridiculously busy and the officers there look totally over-worked - I certainly wouldn't want to work there if I was a Thai immigration officer. They need to build more "Suan Phlu"s, or make the immigration processes less time consuming per applicant.

Or, of course, they could deter people from going there by making the requirements harder to achieve.

[asiaworld]

I'd imagine that any immigration police officer visiting this site would probably click on that Thai Love Links banner and be whisked off to that site before finding time to actually read anything in the forums. Some good suggestions so far though (and no doubt therapeutic at the very least).

How right Heng .. Anyway good to see , that guys are getting on to the right track & organised ! Now if also they would realise, that any immigration officer, is the mere enforcerer of the law.. The law created by the government !

Anyway the good idea would be to print out the first (or more) page of this thread & mail it to the senior immigration in Bangkok, and also to some MP's with enough command in english language to understand, what this moaning is about !!

And most importantly having chance of any impact on the immigration legislation