Hang the PC brigade from the nearest lamp post, let the teachers practice some chastisement (no cruelty, obviously) let Constable Fred deliver the odd clip around the ears to those whose parents either don't know or don't care about how to raise children.

I didn't grow up in a tough environment, it was quite easy going in fact, but I learned how to respect at a very early age (mainly from witnessing others who found the lesson a little harder to learn)

......

This is kind of what I was getting at too, but I don't think punishment is the only answer, but I do think it is part of it.

I think parents should be made responsible for the children's behaviour, and yes Rob I think more opportunities should be made available too.

The right approach, I think, is all of the above. If your teenage kids disrupt the classroom due to their bad manners and lack of respect for authority, the parents should be held accountable for their failure to instil a sense of discipline that may result in their brats disrupting the education of others. Whether that punishment is financial based or something like say, community service within the education industry, or even both could be means tested.

Today it is looking like society, or at least some portions of it, needs more of a nanny knows best approach and to me t least, that doesn't necessarily mean more welfare, in fact I think Nanny should carry a stick!

Many parents today are not teaching their kids respect for authority (amongst a whole host of other things) so perhaps society should step in and do that for the greater good?

I think this certainly achievable and acceptable if the government is ALSO doing a good job and providing equal opportunities for all.

Lead them with a carrot and carry a stick for when that doesn't work.

You also want to jump to conclusions instead of actually thinking about what I've said.

Moral values, virtues and social cohesion are the basis of civilized society, I'm not talking about a conservative utopia, I'm talking about all civilization.

There is no utopian ideal, but we live in a modern age where problems should and could be dealt with using reasoning to find a long term solution,

rather than knee jerk reactions.

I'm far from being pro authoritarian or even conservative and the OP is about what I consider to be a rather disingenious solution to a social problem.

I'm just trying to look at the bigger picture.

You are only judging by your own standards and experience so I'm not trying to argue with you about a matter of perception.

I'm just saying;

People need prospects rather than punishments

If society was more inclusive and structured we wouldn't have so many social problems

Bottom line is; it's all about money.

It sounds like you can't decide if you want to be an anarchist or on the dole in a nanny society.

You should have been able to see this coming for decades now. You and your countrymen have allowed yourselves to be divided into self imposed classes. Didn't matter which government you chose, from which side of the political spectrum, you seemed to like identifying yourselves by your class. Indeed, were proud of "your working class roots/credentials".

When you should have been fighting for equal opportunity for all, huge portions of your population were content to get cheap government subsidised housing and a check every week. Let me tell you something, a culture that centers around sitting in a pub is not cohesive. Now, your government IS becoming inclusive, which you say you want, but that's not the way it looks from here. Now those in the lowest strata of society who never sought to improve themselves or their society will have no advantage over the huge influx of immigrants that WILL shape what the future structure of your society looks like. You want the structure and cohesion, but what are you willing to do to get it? Will you participate in shaping the change, or just bitch about it?

Not a bad post there lannebirth,

I wonder though if you have ever been to the UK, it's a very nice country overall, but it does obviously have areas that need improvement.

I am an Anarchist and I'm not asking for a nanny state, I work hard, I'm self employed.

Anarchism and social structure are not mutually exclusive.

I've never drawn the dole nor am I advocating that for anyone in society.

I'm saying (again) that people need prospects not punishments.

I can see that you are more liberal, that people should be responsible for their own actions and I'm not disagreeing with that, but I do think that people need tradition and structure (yes even such as being proud of working class roots)in order to understand their responsibilies, and that is something that is missing in many parts of society.

Hi Robski,

Yes, I've been to England many times, but never for more than a few days, on my way to elsewhere.

I come from a long line of European anarchists, all either shot or hung. Big egos I guess. It appears a dead end calling. Now I'm an armchair communist.

I hear what you're saying about prospects. Let me tell you my observations. Governments cannot create prospects. Governments can only create an environment, through laws and agencies; where the creativity, talent, intelligence, capital and drive of it's citizenry can be put to constructive purposes that create a virtuous cycle that leads to personal and economic fulfillment. I don't know enough about the workings of the UK government to know if that's in place, as an outsider looking in, I'd guess not, but I really don't know. I don't know where the cohesion comes into play here. Mostly these days I look for that in myself.

Anyway, I didn't mean to sound as I was denigrating the working class. I most certainly was not. Personally, that portion of my family that came from what would become the UK is from the serf/starving class. I was just pointing out that nothing is static, and everything undergoes change. If one's in a group that's at risk when change comes, than one has to take advantage of whatever options one has to either forestall the change or benefit from it when it comes. I'll always be grateful to my ancestors, who, in a time of very limited social mobility, made very difficult choices to improve the lot of future generations.

edit: I'm sorry I got off the topic of education. I guess I saw whatever problem that exists there as symptomatic of some greater problem within the society.