You farang know too much

[buasaard]

For other daily items, I now, after 5 years have found the places where the owners know me & do not overcharge

So you know the solution! It's the offer and demand law. Go where you pay less. This is common all over the world and when they understand that this doesn't make any good to their business they'll stop this practice (and if they don't understand too bad for them).

Samui seems to be a bad place to live in, in Phuket this does not happen, because the municipality is more strict. Of course maybe tuk tuk drivers try to overcharge tourists (and they overcharge also japanese and chinese), but it's not racism, racism is something else.

[markt]

This thread seems to be veering slightly of its original topic, which is, or was,  You farang know too much.

The farang in question probably knows too much because he/she speaks Thai and a Thai person is not amused.

With a lot of immigration into Bkk from the sticks, farangs are going to encounter Thais who haven't met many farangs before.

As the nationwide image of farangs is to be rich and stupid, when a newcomer into the big city encounters one speaking Thai they most probably are taken aback.

My wifes family were speachless when they first learnt that i knew the language.

[mrentoul]

My wifes family were speachless when they first learnt that i knew the language.

OK...and?

[chonabot]

mrentoul

I thought Markt made a valid point, in line with the original theme. I realise the direction had veered towards "You Farang must pay too much" , also in the same area thematically, but nonetheless, if as Markt states, his wifes family were speechless, that would be the end of the story, word-wise.

[D80]

Interesting discussons....

When I first read this post, I was quite surprise to hear that some people experience the 'you farang know too much' attitude from the Thai just because you speak the language.

To me, that's really surprising.  In my social group(s), as far as I have seen, we are very please when a non-Thai speaks the language.  We even admire them for bothering to learn!  

I have been nagging my hubby to learn Thai for the past God knows how many years but he is just too lazy to learn, especially when we have no problem communicating in English anyway.

In my experience, Thai people I know don't say 'you know too much' just because you speak Thai.  From the rare occasion that I have seen such attitude being exercised was when a non-Thai starting to boast about his knowledge of Thailand (either in Thai or in English) and lecture us about 'What Thailand needs', 'What Thai people are really like', 'How shit Thailand really is' (at this, we all wonder why he/she still stays) etc etc.  

That's when Thai people I have seen start reacting with the attitude 'you are a non-Thai, stop acting as if you know all about our country'.  To be honest, some of these people (who are not Thai) sometimes provide excellent insight about Thailand as a whole. The only problem is, they do it in the wrong way (ie, going into attack mode rather than 'relax conversation' mode).

Having said that, I'm sure that there are other incidents that will make some Thai people react in such a way described by the members of this board too.

Although I am Thai, I still feel that lots of Thai people are highly xenophobic.  I wish this sort of attitude would change as well. My hubby and I may have to move back to Thailand in the near future due to personal necessity.  And this sort of attitude is something I can't help feeling worried about, even though it is not so common among the people I associate with.

[D80]

Regarding double pricing:

I have myself been a victim as some Thais thought I was Japanese.  I was offered a fake Levi jeans for 1500 bath (yeah right!) and overcharged prices food & drinks before at markets etc.  

It's not until I say something in Thai that they agree to back off.  It's also a nightmare when I go anywhere in Thailand with my western partner as we get overcharged all the time, sometimes 4-5 time more than the normal price.  I have to constantly negotiate the proper price and it is very exhausting.

I can see that many Thais earn a lot less but at the same time, being charged 400 baths instead of 40 bath for an entrance fee for some crappy crocodile farm is pretty extortionate.  We aren't a rich couple, we just work hard to save up for me to be able to visit my family & friend at least once a year.  It's not like we've got money to burn and if we end up moving to Thailand, it will be even more difficult for us.  

So, really I don't agree with overcharging if it is so extortionate.  The differences between 120 to 100 bath will probably be overlooked in our situation.  I mean, I'd rather not get overcharged at all and avoided being done so just by principle when I can.  And being Thai, I sometimes feel quite ashamed taking my non-Thai friends out only to be told they have to pay 10-20 times more than me.  When it's not too much to bear, we just pay (ie if it's just 120 and 100 bath) but if it's too much (40 and 400 bath) then we usually don't.

And it's not just tourist stuff that we got ripped off with.  Things like BTS or a bus fare are not likely to be overcharged as the prices are all fixed.  But my hubby and I have been overcharged on:

-taxi fares (refused to go by the metre, insist on us paying 250 bath for somewhere that would normally cost 50 bath-after 10 or so taxis saying the same thing, we got the bus)

-sontaew fares (from normally 10 bath, we were asked 100 bath, this is not in a tourist populated area-we didn't pay)

-food & drink (ex: I bought a coconut for 10 bath.  When my husband saw it & wanted one, he went and bought exactly the same stuff for 40 bath.  My mum took my husband food shopping once, the seller asked him for 250 bath for 3 crappy mangoes.  My mum had a go at her only to be told 'that's a farang price.  For you I'll give ra-ka-khon-Thai (Thai price)')

-clothes (usually from market stalls)

-transportation by boat (was acharged 10 times the real price, at that time we didn't know.  Was told later by another Thai friend)

-groceries (more by market places but sometimes by supermarkets too - very surprising)

-services such as hair-cutting, traditional massage

-pets (a lower grade koi carp bought as a small gift to a friend, normally cost 40 bath, was charged 500 bath)

-market goods in general

We don't pay for all of them but we know that for many of these, we have been badly overchargged.  I don't know if it's just my luck or what.  But we get this all the time.  When I have a go at some of these people, they say I don't look Thai (more like Japanese-their words) and my hubby is a farang and hence the Japanese + farang price.  Or sometimes, theu say I look pretty young and thought I am with 'guest' (ie they think I am an 'escort lady/prostitute' who would not mind how much the 'farang' have to pay).  It really pissed me off!  

Sorry for such a long post, just had so many shitty experience regarding this.      

[D80]

Just one more post (sorry)

I wouldn't call double pricing racism as such... depends how you see racism...  

Call it any way you want, really.... marketing strategies... xenophobia.... ignorance... racism.... whatever

All I wish is that it would stop. And if it can't be stopped, at least minimised.

PS: People from Bangkok sometimes get charged more than locals in the countryside as well if we go on a holiday.  Some Thai friends of mine have been charged 20 baths for a 2 bath songtaew ride before.

[markt]

Hair cuts.

Everyone needs one now and again, it's not a touristy thing. My wifes friend has a hair dressers/barbers.  We went to visit her and i thought i'll get a hair cut.  

As i was sitting in the chair i noticed the price list.

Farangs were more than double the price of Thais.

I asked her why and she said "Farang ruay".

Which ones?  I asked.

[Butterfly]

I always dress like a cheap guy and never get overcharged. I see some Thai paying more than the cheap farangs. This happens everywhere, even in western countries. Thailand does not have the monopoly of that "marketing" strategy. Give the poor Thai vendors a break. If you have the money, being overcharged by 20 bath is not going to make a difference in your wealth

[keestha]

Maybe Thai authorities should reconsider a change in the law which took effect a few years ago, raising the national park entry fee for foreigners to 200 Baht. For Thai citizens it is 20 Baht.

Many tourists are quite rightly pissed off being required to pay this, because you dont get anything for it. As a rule national parks dont have any infrastructure like walking paths, campgrounds, or a well equipped visitors center where information can be dispensed. Usually the only facility the tourist can use after having paid the entry fee is a public toilet, maybe apart from restaurants, but they are usually privately run.

Of course there are exceptions such as Khao Sok in Surat Thani and Khao Yai northeast of Bangkok, both are national parks with a very good infrastructure where the 200 Bath entry fee for tourists is fully justified.

By the way myself I always get into national parks for the Thai price, I just show my Thai drivers licence and explain that I work in Thailand. Especially in the national parks which are getting a lot of tourists national park staff need little convincing to let me in for 20 Baht: they might feel a bit frustrated because too many farangs just turned back after being told they would have to pay 200 Baht just for parking the rented motorbike next to the waterfall and maybe using the loo.

[bouzin2]

To everyone who know about this please respond, what is the Thai attitude with black people.

While i was there I encounter some strange behavior, people would give me a strange smile and follow me with their eyes. While white guys were getting pull to go to bar no one would try that with me even street street vendors would stay away, why.

I loved it because no one bothered  me or trying to pull into any bar, same thing in Phuket where I even went to a bar that was empty but non of the girls  would even come and talk to me. That was strange, good thing I was not there for that or else my vacation would of been a mess.

I love Phuket so much that I'm thinking of opening or leasing a business there. I don;t want to invest money and find out later that Thai would not buy from me or things might be more difficult for me a black man.

Thank you for any insight you may provide

Bouzin

[mrentoul]

In my experience, Thai people I know don't say 'you know too much' just because you speak Thai.

Same here. The notion is ridiculous.

Especially in the national parks which are getting a lot of tourists national park staff need little convincing to let me in for 20 Baht:

In my experience dual-pricing is rarely enforced rigidly. I don't think it's just because farang tourists turn tail when they see they are being charged more.

Thailand does not have the monopoly of that "marketing" strategy. Give the poor Thai vendors a break. If you have the money, being overcharged by 20 bath is not going to make a difference in your wealth

Exactly. Well said.

[Rambutan]

Hi Bouzin!

I think Thais can be pretty racist, especialy about skin colour. Their own people are not exempted, so they have to face disadvantages all the time.

As you can learn from this forum or others doing business in Thailand is always somewhat risky, especially at these tourist spots.

There is no real legal systen here in Thailand, so if you get into troubles chances are that you can't do anything about it.

It's sad but true, but I think being black could make matters worse unless you belong into the category "super rich" or football star.

Think twice and read all these forums. I think the other posters will have some more advice for you.

[LPCustom69]

Hey Bouzin2 -- Many Thais are definitely prejudiced against blacks and have been that I know of since the 70's. Back then they charged the black GI's more than the white. My friends who were black seemed to be unaware or didn't care. But I wouldn't put up with a friend paying more for the same drink that I was having, so they charged the same price when we were in a group. Some bars didn't even want blacks to come in. And a lot of the girls -- forget it. Thais are even prejudiced against darker skin thais! And I know that today teaching positions will not even consider blacks. If you are going to go into business, make sure it will make most of its proceeds from tourists, and let your personality and product win over the locals. Good luck.

 :cool:

[buasaard]

My friends who were black seemed to be unaware or didn't care

Maybe they are just used to it in their own country, and they suffer much more discrimination, so that when they come to Thailand they see thais as kind people to them.

[LPCustom69]

I guess that's one way to look at it. Things have changed slowly, too slow. I was just using that as a time reference to compare to the bias in teaching which I know exists today.

:cool:

[buasaard]

Anyway I agree that thais are racists.

My wife is thai (we've been married for 16 years now) and when she first came to Italy, I noticed she was a little racist against blacks and even against people of the south(she's from Bangkok). After a while anyway she changed her attitude, maybe also because she is herself discriminated in Italy as a "yellow face" though asian people in Italy are seen better than africans. On the contrary my mother-in-law which has never been abroad ,one day said somenthing about blacks, and I asked her why she hated black people, she answered "I don't hate, but I don't like".

So I think it's a cultural racist and due to ignorance.

[markt]

My wife and i were buying some takeaway noodles from a street vendor in Pratunarm.

Just opposite was a small hotel.  Hanging around outside the hotel were a lot of Africans.

My wife asked the vendor if there were a lot of African men in the area, and the vendor replied "yes, a lot. Scary hey".

Also my wifes family call any Thai from past Hua Hin "Kairk".

They don't care about which provence someones from, they're just Kairk.

[markt]

mrentoul,

Go back to the first page of this topic.

Methinks they're talking about a seedier type of Thai than you are obviously used to dealing with.

[bouzin2]

Here is an idea for the overcharge situation in Thailand, why don't someone who has been living in Thailand for a while or even a Thai person put a list of goods and their price.

Even if it's an aproximate price it will be better than the four to sometime six time the amount we pay. I don't mind paying an extra 20 or 50 but not paying 200 for something that is worth 40.

[D80]

bouzin2,

Regarding your question on Thai people's view towards blacks:

Sadly, it is true that many people in Thailand are still ignorant in this matter.  Some will see Thai news on Nigerian drug smugglers and assume that black people are all the same.  Some will see Hollywood film portraying black people as gangsters and criminals living in ghettos (and let's face it, lots and lots of these films do that) then these Thais believe that is how black people live.

The thing is, it's not likely that these Thais will get a chance to get to know any black people personally and all they see will be these prejudiced messages.  Ignorance plays a huge part in this 'racist' attitude.  Most people just simply don't know any better.

Xenophobia in general is also deep rooted in the culture.  So, that plays a part as well.  

It is changing.  I can't imagine any of my Thai friends now reacting badly towards blacks or racially discriminating them.  It's usually people from the older generation or those who aren't very educated that are more sceptical.

An English professor at Chula Longkorn Uni (where I attended briefly before going abroad) was black.  I don't think he had any problem at all.  In fact, his students prefer him as he was a lot nicer than others there at that time.  It just depends who you come across really.

[Rhys]

On 7/23/2003 at 1:05 AM, D80 said:

bouzin2,

Regarding your question on Thai people's view towards blacks:

Sadly, it is true that many people in Thailand are still ignorant in this matter.  Some will see Thai news on Nigerian drug smugglers and assume that black people are all the same.  Some will see Hollywood film portraying black people as gangsters and criminals living in ghettos (and let's face it, lots and lots of these films do that) then these Thais believe that is how black people live.

The thing is, it's not likely that these Thais will get a chance to get to know any black people personally and all they see will be these prejudiced messages.  Ignorance plays a huge part in this 'racist' attitude.  Most people just simply don't know any better.

Xenophobia in general is also deep rooted in the culture.  So, that plays a part as well.  

It is changing.  I can't imagine any of my Thai friends now reacting badly towards blacks or racially discriminating them.  It's usually people from the older generation or those who aren't very educated that are more sceptical.

An English professor at Chula Longkorn Uni (where I attended briefly before going abroad) was black.  I don't think he had any problem at all.  In fact, his students prefer him as he was a lot nicer than others there at that time.  It just depends who you come across really.

... The brothers at the Embassy has the  Kunta Kite look and reverse WB attitude...

[stud858]

Was at night market tonight.  Good phone going super cheap, but I know not too much, but enough that the seller could be dishonest. Going through testing it I found it wouldn't accept sim. He almost got me, but sold it to the Thai man next to me who didnt know enough yet about life.  A young tacker, who will learn from the experience.