All Farangs To Pay Full Price At National Parks

[uptheos]

400 Baht is about 8 pounds (for foreigners). As a native of UK I have to pay 25 pounds Woburn Wildlife Park, 17-95 pounds Tower of London and 20 pounds Madame Tussauds.....that's as a native! I agree that foeigners should pay the same and they do. However, if the UK brought in a law saying I can go to places that involve my heritage for say five pounds a time, but all foreigners have to pay full price I wouldn't complain. I reckon a one off 8 quid to a decent national park isn't so bad.....just be selective where you go.

You make a good point, however it's not the same if you live here and have to pay more than locals. Your not a tourist you live here the same as they do. For example if you live near the park or a waterfall and you like to go a few times a month for a picnic or whatever it can get expensive.

I understand fully your response unlike the egocentric rantings in the blog that follows yours. All who disagree with him 'are simple' could be changed to 'all who write like him are simple'. Dustoff inferred I am rude and opinionated.....how about this guy Dustoff?

Anyway, I do not know if you are actually living near a waterfall, most of them I personally wouldn't visit on a regular basis for 40 Baht, but that's a personal choice. However, I would certainly make some effort to speak to whomever, saying and proving that I live here (take the wife and kids along) and at least ask if a deal could be made because you want somewhere for the family to go at weekends. If you speak Thai great, but if not then leave it up to the missus (which is better anyway). You will be amazed what you can achieve if if you take the time and effort....and yes I know you shouldn't have to, but that's the way it is.

[meadish_sweetball]

Somehow I think Donnyboy would be alright doing that in most places.

Moral issues aside (two-tier pricing, especially for residents, is not fair), I have always been able to get in at the local price by producing my work permit and speaking Thai.

[sriracha john]

The insidious racism...

does not exist! or would you call it racism that any non-floridian pays a multiple entrance fee for any theme park in Florida, U.S. of A.? the lower fee is available to anyone producing a Florida driver's license whether his/her skin colour is black, white, yellow, red, green or whatever AND no matter what nationality.

The difference in Thailand is when they don't ask for ID and make assumptions on nationalities (and charges accordingly) based upon race.

But....

As Yogi Berra would say:

"It's déjà vu... all over again."

-- to not apply this policy consistently, as is done in thailand where only white

faces are picked out for enforcement, further excerbates the feelings of inequality

(everyone is supposed to have IDs on their persons - why not ask for them)

I say again. They charge HK, Japanese, Korean tourists the tourist price as well!!!! Unless they don't know that they are not thais!!! Can you guys hear????????????????????????????????????

On countless personal occasions encountered from National Parks from the North to the South from the East to the West, its precisely these persons, as well as other Asians, that are allowed in at the local Thai price and thus leads to the appearance of racism in the admission fee system.

Can you SJ honestly tell me where these so-called other Asians are from? Did the gate men know they were non-thais?

something tells me we've been down this road before...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=69735&view=findpost&p=760620

since the time of our exact same discussion posted above from 8 months ago, you can add Malaysians and even a Chinese-American to the list.

Did the gate men know? Not likely, they didn't ask. That's the whole point. If they're making decisions based on race, it's called racism.

If the racist components were removed from the state-sanctioned system, it'd be a lot easier to stop blaming racism.

It's just garden-variety racism. No need to call it something else.

How to end it? Simple.

Check everyone entering National Parks. If they produce a Thai National ID Card, they get in at one rate. If they don't have have one, charge another rate.

That would solve the racism issue, but not necessarily do much to resolve the issue of 10x pricing.

Let's go back even further into the archives for this one from our mutual discussion 15 months ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=510033

or if you prefer an even longer trip down memory land, this similar one from our posts 24 months ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=260037

Thais, as anyone else, certainly have the freedom to think in whatever manner they choose, but those responsible for the National Park system could learn a lot from their fellow Thai mentioned in Post #98.

Implementing his recommendations solves most of the problems. btw, I agree with all 5 of them.

With apologies, but interactive quoting needed to be trimmed in the last set of quotes in order to not exceed the forum's software maximal allowed quotes.

Edited November 20, 2007 by sriracha john

[SoloFlyer]

Can anyone actually answer the question? - Is this a nationwide, enforced policy?

[Galong]

In a word, it's <deleted>! If they feel the locals should be subsidized, then fine, charge us double; but attributing the extra charge as a counter to tax-paying locals is so <deleted> transparent it's almost funny. Some numb nut mentioned about the amount farang spend in the bars. Sorry, but <deleted> has that got to do with the price of fish? That's their prerogative and no discrimination, but if Bill Gates gets charged 10- or 20-times more than Somchai Bloggs to get into a national park, all because of the colour of his skin and perceived wealth, then that's short-sighted crap. Sure, one can vote with one's feet and piss off back home, but that ain't the point and anyone arguing otherwise is a little bit simple in my book.

Spot on Jackr!

Every time I hear about taxes it reminds me that I should stop paying so much so that their accusations can actually be true. Trying to get a tax receipt out of a hotel or bungalow in many of the places where my company runs tours is akin to pulling teeth. I've I had a dollar for every time I heard, "we don't have VAT receipt, my mee." Or, "We'll send it to you in the mail later (never happens)" I could afford to... um, uh, screw it... We're wrong and they're right obviously.

I just handed over 66,000 Baht yesterday to the tax man. What do I get for that? Nothing.

[sriracha john]

Can anyone actually answer the question? - Is this a nationwide, enforced policy?

Sorry, but there is no real answer.

At some parks, long-stay foreigners are allowed in at the local price with a variety of techniques such as Thai speaking, drivers' licenses, work permits, etc. as well as other maneuvers such as circumventing the gate entrance.

At other parks, nothing short of a Thai National ID card is acceptable for entrance at local price.

Within both sets of parks, the varied policy is followed or not and is often dependent upon what day of the week it is, which employee is manning the front gate collecting fees, whether it's one foreigner or a group, and other what-should-be inconsequential criteria.

On a national scale, consistently inconsistent is the "enforced policy."

[madjbs]

For the Grand Palace, all the farang entry fee money is used to renovate the fantastic artwork and architecture. I didn’t used to be too happy about paying the higher fee there but since I have seen what the money has been used for I feel more privileged to be able to help keep the place alive. Not sure what they use the fees for in the national park though.

[uptheos]

For the Grand Palace, all the farang entry fee money is used to renovate the fantastic artwork and architecture. I didn’t used to be too happy about paying the higher fee there but since I have seen what the money has been used for I feel more privileged to be able to help keep the place alive. Not sure what they use the fees for in the national park though.

The Grand Palace is a great bargain and a photographers paradise.

[chanchao]

Not sure what they use the fees for in the national park though

They use it to buy chainsaws to log some teak.

Edited November 20, 2007 by chanchao

[Loaded]

I was recently asked for a Thai ID card to enter Sukothai Historical Park for local price. I showed 2 5-year driver's licences, a tax card ans spoke Thai to them. I was annoyed and for the fun of it I asked for their names as I was going to write a letter of complaint. They gave me their director's mobile number. The missus spoke to him and he reluctantly allowed me to enter for Thai price. A lot of Thai face was lost including my wife's. I'm just not going to bother with these places anymore.

[jackr]

400 Baht is about 8 pounds (for foreigners). As a native of UK I have to pay 25 pounds Woburn Wildlife Park, 17-95 pounds Tower of London and 20 pounds Madame Tussauds.....that's as a native! I agree that foeigners should pay the same and they do. However, if the UK brought in a law saying I can go to places that involve my heritage for say five pounds a time, but all foreigners have to pay full price I wouldn't complain. I reckon a one off 8 quid to a decent national park isn't so bad.....just be selective where you go.

You make a good point, however it's not the same if you live here and have to pay more than locals. Your not a tourist you live here the same as they do. For example if you live near the park or a waterfall and you like to go a few times a month for a picnic or whatever it can get expensive.

I understand fully your response unlike the egocentric rantings in the blog that follows yours. All who disagree with him 'are simple' could be changed to 'all who write like him are simple'. Dustoff inferred I am rude and opinionated.....how about this guy Dustoff?

If you're referring to me; first off, I don't write blogs, although I often participate in the forum. Rude? nah; perhaps opinionated but who isn't?. Apologies if my rough tactics have ruffled one's feathers but it does seem one has to bare a few teeth nowadays to get logic through to some daft entities.

[Crow Boy]

Just a note to all participants on the forum and this thread. Several antagonisic posts and reference to bar fines have been made. If this thread is to stay open then keep to the rules.

This topic has been raised several times and usually splits into distinct groups that have different standards and opinions. We will not all agree but should respect the opinon and the right to raise that opinion of others.

FYIW I am a long term resident and speak Thai. I normally get in by showing my Drivers License (5 year) and/or Work Permit/Non Imm Visa. In about 80% of the time I don't have a problem once the gate staff realise I am not on a 2 day visit to Thailand. That works for me but I still have a fundamental problem with the inconsistency of the rule and the arbitary nature of 400baht versus 20baht. I am used to it and accept it as part of living here but I don't have to like it and can choose not to do it.

Crow Boy

Moderating Team

Thai Visa

[uptheos]

400 Baht is about 8 pounds (for foreigners). As a native of UK I have to pay 25 pounds Woburn Wildlife Park, 17-95 pounds Tower of London and 20 pounds Madame Tussauds.....that's as a native! I agree that foeigners should pay the same and they do. However, if the UK brought in a law saying I can go to places that involve my heritage for say five pounds a time, but all foreigners have to pay full price I wouldn't complain. I reckon a one off 8 quid to a decent national park isn't so bad.....just be selective where you go.

You make a good point, however it's not the same if you live here and have to pay more than locals. Your not a tourist you live here the same as they do. For example if you live near the park or a waterfall and you like to go a few times a month for a picnic or whatever it can get expensive.

I understand fully your response unlike the egocentric rantings in the blog that follows yours. All who disagree with him 'are simple' could be changed to 'all who write like him are simple'. Dustoff inferred I am rude and opinionated.....how about this guy Dustoff?

If you're referring to me; first off, I don't write blogs, although I often participate in the forum. Rude? nah; perhaps opinionated but who isn't?. Apologies if my rough tactics have ruffled one's feathers but it does seem one has to bare a few teeth nowadays to get logic through to some daft entities.

No need for apologies your tactics are pussy cat compared to other blogs I've been in - I'm sure I'll survive!

Interesting that you feel you need to bare a few teeth to get (YOUR) logic through to others that disagree with you. Maybe you should try a logical discussion - that might work - no need to get the old BP going sky high, chill out and relax a bit.

[JimsKnight]

Does this guy know the difference between a blog and a forum post? Maybe someone needs to explain it to him?

[Kan Win]

Hi to All of you up there.

Me, in Central Thailand and yes they do charge us mortals 400 baht even if I show me PR which they do not understand.

Anyways, I go to these places to take photos for the world to see, “Thailand as I see it”. Post some on ThaiVisaDotCom and elsewhere as me mood chooses.

Paying for entrance fee does not come into the equation with me, but knowing what I Kan find in such Parks does.

Been to a few, forgot to look them up on the web and was very disappointed. Last place I went to in Kan they asked me to complain on the web about these prices and then gave me a discount 200 baht, 30 minutes there, and yes it was Khrap as well, hence no photos on my web-page of this place.

Having told you me little story about me “miss adventures” there is always a bright side to Thailand.

Let me take you to a few of these places, if I may:-

Huay Mae Khamin Waterfall – Kanchanaburi 400 baht, worth every satang I believe.

Rajjaprabha Dam on the road to Phuket from Surat Thani - Free of Charge, on this side of the Dam.

Saiyok Noi Waterfall in Kan - Free of Charge, at the end of the line, Nam Tok.

Chiang Mai Pano View – Entrance Fee 30 baht - Lift up was a few baht extra when I took this photo BTW.

Kata Top View Point – Phuket - Free of Charge, during daytime only

Koh Samui, South, Mountain View Point - Free of Charge

There's many a place free of charge buy the way, seek and you will find them, and stop whinging about the National Park Fee.

I will leave you with this last one, from your own back garden, so to speak.............

Chiang Mai Zoo of the Panda enclosure – Panoramic Photo – March 2004

Most to you want to de-mote Thailand, but I pro-mote this country that I live in through the way I see Thailand.

Sawadee Khrap

The Colonel

P.S. I hope that your photo club takes better pics than Kan Win

[Crow Boy]

Hi to All of you up there.

P.S. I hope that your photo club takes better pics than Kan Win

Hi Ya Kan, always good to see you up here.

Some beautiful photos you have there.

Let me know when you are coming up next - I know a place or two where we can get a nice glass of Singha and discuss why we are so lucky to live here.

CB

[richard10365]

I don't go anywhere where dual pricing exist. When I do encounter it, whoever I am with, we turn around and leave.

[richard10365]

Hi to All of you up there.

Me, in Central Thailand and yes they do charge us mortals 400 baht even if I show me PR which they do not understand.

Anyways, I go to these places to take photos for the world to see, “Thailand as I see it”. Post some on ThaiVisaDotCom and elsewhere as me mood chooses.

Paying for entrance fee does not come into the equation with me, but knowing what I Kan find in such Parks does.

Been to a few, forgot to look them up on the web and was very disappointed. Last place I went to in Kan they asked me to complain on the web about these prices and then gave me a discount 200 baht, 30 minutes there, and yes it was Khrap as well, hence no photos on my web-page of this place.

Having told you me little story about me “miss adventures” there is always a bright side to Thailand.

Let me take you to a few of these places, if I may:-

************************************************************************

Photos deleted for lack of an emotional response

************************************************************************

Most to you want to de-mote Thailand, but I pro-mote this country that I live in through the way I see Thailand.

Sawadee Khrap

The Colonel

P.S. I hope that your photo club takes better pics than Kan Win

Wow! Thanks for the photos Kan Win. Now that I have seen it, now I don't have to go!

[uptheos]

I don't go anywhere where dual pricing exist. When I do encounter it, whoever I am with, we turn around and leave.

Well said and without a whinge.

You have your own policy towards this problem and you simply deal with it in a manner that suits you - well done.

[chanchao]

Phew, am I happy that some posts were edited. Indeed the readership should be shielded from a sexual connotation or joke, makes for a far more enjoyable forum for all.

[Greenside]

The whole dual pricing issue gets under my skin as it does many others - I saw the OP when it was sitting there all sad and lonely on its own and the very prospect of the Powers That Be enforcing this unjust and short sighted policy raised my blood pressure for most of the morning. I have a Thai DL and have used it to get into a number of places in the past and on consideration think that it's a fairly good (if rough and ready) indication of the holder's commitment and most likely contribution to the Thai economy in that you have to have an appropriate visa and make a bit of an effort to get one. I've seen lots of arguments about the differential charging making up for what farang residents may not be paying in taxes but the fact is that as a group we are contributing a lot to the Thai economy simply by living here, many of us with incomes or savings generated overseas so I think it's a fallacy and I'm heartened that many normal Thais find it embarassing too.

It's not simply the unjust nature of dual pricing, but the huge 20 times differential. There is some justification in the concept that tourists (rather than foreigners) can afford to contribute a bit more to the upkeep of a site then why not present it as a "Tourist Levy" with a feelgood explanation as to where the extra money goes? I doubt any of the tourist visitors would feel put upon to pay an additional 30 - 50 baht, for example and wouldn't most of us find it OK to justify something like this when showing visitors the sights? Also, the unkind (and probably unjustified) thought about whether my extra 380 baht might get lost in the accounting often occurs to me when bartering at the gate of one of these "attractions".

Given that dual pricing of some kind is unlikely to disappear in the near future, there are other issues that do as much or more damage to Thailand's image in the eyes of the tourist. The tourist industry here as it relates to National Parks, monuments etc. is a monopoly run by bureaucrats and no judgement seems to be made about value for money. I find this true in an increasing number of countries, China being a particularly notable culprit. Some natural wonders may be worth 400 baht for a tourist to spend the day at but a minor waterfall providing an hour's interest is not in the same league so why not charge 50 baht? Imposing blanket (or blind) pricing is bound to lead to disappointed customers who, if they were treated fairly and with respect would turn into the most cost effective advertising medium available. Thailand is a wonderful country to visit and live in but tourism is a long term business that, particularly in this internet age, can be quickly and severely damaged by greedy or short sighted policies that are, or appear to be, sanctioned by the host country.

It saddens me to this capital of goodwill being squandered so thoughtlessly.

[khunphil]

Hi,

I went to Doi Inthanon last Sunday 18 November. I just showed my work permit, and I paid 40Bt.

Just for information.

KhunPhil

[rogerchiangmai]

cheers Phil,

Pretty much clears up the original question - so the national park staff were completely off when they tried to convince my wife that there had been a high level meeting recently and that all farangs everywhere in Thailand had to pay full whack from this month onwards. Much as I suspected, but nice to have it confirmed through the forum.

Cheers.

[sriracha john]

Actually, they're not off at all... simply that they've been late in implementing what most other parks around the country have been doing for months and months... and yet, by Phil's account... it seems they are continuing to implement this in a highly inconsistent manner... which is highly consistent with how the situation is done nation-wide....

For additional background, borrowed from thaivisa thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=92264&st=

National Park Fees

The Article below is from the Nation's website on August 29th 2006. It suggests that national park entry fee increases have been deferred until next year. On Koh Chang they haven't. Farang visitors to the waterfall are being charged 400 baht. Thais are still being charged 20 Baht. Does anyone know the official story?

National parks : Entrance fee hikes to be deferred

The Natural Resources and Environment Ministry is to postpone for more than a year its plan to double entry fees at all national parks.

The fees were scheduled to rise on September 15, but caretaker Minister Yongyuth Tiyapairat has agreed to postpone the hike until November 30 next year. Park entry fees for foreigners will rise from Bt200 to Bt400 and for Thais from Bt20 to Bt40.

Earlier this month, 500 tour operators rallied at the Tourism Authority of Thailand's office in Phuket to demand the increase be scrapped or, at least, their concerns be taken into account.

They said that doubling the entry fees will damage their livelihoods by causing a decline in the number of tourists visiting the parks, especially foreigners.

They said the two-tier system, under which foreign visitors pay 10 times the amount paid by Thais, has itself been a long-term embarrassment for tour operators and others in the hospitality industry.

relevant posts taken from previous thread - Thai Parks Postpones Double-pricing Rise, Postponed Until Late Next Year

Was required to pay 400 baht for Foreigner and 40 baht for Thai yesterday at Koh Samet's National Park.

The staff knew nothing of any change and refused to believe it.

They have been charging 400 baht to pick-up trucks full of foreigners since September 16 based upon their latest guidelines from headquarters. The truck in front of ours had 12 foreigners (4,800 baht) and ours had 10 with 2 Thais (4,080 baht). There was a steady stream of them behind us.

*as an added note*

They seem more resistant as well to any sort of scamming or bending of the rules.

Two foreigners in our truck, I believe they were Swedish, who displayed a decent level of Thai language knowledge and produced Thai driver licenses and who sought entrance at the Thai price were rebuked and both ended up paying 400 baht each.

Was required to pay 400 baht for Foreigner and 40 baht for Thai yesterday at Koh Samet's National Park.

The staff knew nothing of any change and refused to believe it.

They have been charging 400 baht to pick-up trucks full of foreigners since September 16 based upon their latest guidelines from headquarters. The truck in front of ours had 12 foreigners (4,800 baht) and ours had 10 with 2 Thais (4,080 baht). There was a steady stream of them behind us.

to be more accurate, it is 400 baht for foriegn tourists.

if you are a foreigner with a work permit,permanent residency etc.. you should have no problem paying the local price.

Actually, the law says it's 400 baht for foreigners... period. With no concession for work permits, drivers licenses, etc.

Not sure about PR papers and would assume if one had obtained Thai citizenship, they would be allowed in at the Thai price.

Ultimately it seems to be varying from park to park as to which ones have started the 400 baht fee. It seems to be the more popular and frequented ones that have it in place, eg. Chang in your case, Samet in mine.

Edited November 23, 2007 by sriracha john

[Goshawk]

Actually, they're not off at all... simply that they've been late in implementing what most other parks around the country have been doing for months and months...

so true..

To foriegners both Khao Yai & Nam Nao NP's were 400 baht back in January this year when i was last there. Even Nam Tok Mae Sa, here in Chiangmai was 400 thb last November..

[cnxmike]

After reading all the comments to this topic here, I'm still not wiser as before.

Do all farangs have to pay the full price at national parks or not?

[Donnyboy]

for what its worth, I can get in at the local prices as long as I keep my mouth shut!

There's innumerable National Parks spanning the length and width of this country where that doesn't work.

perhaps should explain further- my g/f pays the ticket whilst I smile/nod to the person selling the ticket and it works!

It helps if you look Thai.

[Donnyboy]

Somehow I think Donnyboy would be alright doing that in most places.

Moral issues aside (two-tier pricing, especially for residents, is not fair), I have always been able to get in at the local price by producing my work permit and speaking Thai.

cheers meadish

sometimes its hard keeping quiet, but if theres an incentive, Im all for it

[sriracha john]

After reading all the comments to this topic here, I'm still not wiser as before.

Do all farangs have to pay the full price at national parks or not?

Sorry, but there is no definitive answer.

It depends on a multitude of factors whether you pay full foreigner price or not; most of which have been mentioned in this thread.

[sriracha john]

Just off the top of my head and to be quite specific from personal experiences, the following parks would accept ONLY Thai National ID cards for admission at Thai prices:

Pang Sida National Park

Huay Huat National Park

Khao Sam Roi Yot National Marine Park

It is a highly inconsistent policy extended across the country

for what its worth, I can get in at the local prices as long as I keep my mouth shut!

There's innumerable National Parks spanning the length and width of this country where that doesn't work.

perhaps should explain further- my g/f pays the ticket whilst I smile/nod to the person selling the ticket and it works!

It helps if you look Thai.

see above...