Australian Aged Pension

[GungaDin]

$1328.20 per month (28 days )

Pathetic, isn't it.

You can't rent a slum house for less than $300 a week.

[ozzydom]

$1328.20 per month (28 days )

Pathetic, isn't it.

You can't rent a slum house for less than $300 a week.

Maybe thats why so many of us live in S/E Asia.

[fishhooks]

I still don't see by the above article and it's probably not in print anywhere, anyway....................Where the fine line is drawn between Centrelink deciding how you are judged as actually living overseas OR making extended visits as nothing more than a long holiday.

It seems that it's decided by whoever is your case officer at the time you apply and if you are classed as a non resident you have to go to measures as some have done here by objecting and going up the chain of command.

From some posts it appears that a good strategy is not to rely in any way on your local office, but from the outset try to deal with the section in Hobart.

[samuibeachcomber]

At the end of the day,as i understand it,if you registered yourself "as resident overseas" as i have for income tax purposes,or if you actually live overseas for most of the time,only returning either every year or every two years for a visit then centrelink will deem you as an overseas resident,and having left australia prior to age 65,you will have to return to australia and live there for a period of 2 years to re qualify for the govt. pension.Am i correct in this?

Can anyone tell me,during this residency period(2 years) are you allowed to leave australia for a visit overseas for holidays? And if you are ,how long are you allowed to be away for?

[harrry]

At the end of the day,as i understand it,if you registered yourself "as resident overseas" as i have for income tax purposes,or if you actually live overseas for most of the time,only returning either every year or every two years for a visit then centrelink will deem you as an overseas resident,and having left australia prior to age 65,you will have to return to australia and live there for a period of 2 years to re qualify for the govt. pension.Am i correct in this?

Can anyone tell me,during this residency period(2 years) are you allowed to leave australia for a visit overseas for holidays? And if you are ,how long are you allowed to be away for?

If you leave in this two year period your pension will be suspended and you will have to startthe two ear period again when you return.

[samuibeachcomber]

ok harry thanks for that.They are tough bastards are n't they! I mean i've been here for nearly 5 years in a steady relationship,so basically if i want to avail myself of this govt. pension i have to leave my g/f for 2 years to re qualify? ok i could apply for a visa for her to visit i would guess,but you know at age 65, 2 years is a very long time(seeing as you could kark it anytime)personally i dont think i can be bothered,and will probably forego the pleasure ofr receiving one.

[fishhooks]

Surely this 2 year qualification is not as strict as that (although anything I suppose is possible)

Lets take the case of a person who has just turned 63 and hopes to get the pension at 65.

Are we saying here that between the age of 63 and 65, each time he goes overseas, for a "holiday", the 2 year clock starts again each time he returns from such "holiday"?

I really can't see that in the above case even with the rules being as cumbersome as they are, that this is applied.

Which returns me to my original point, and excuse me as I've posted this in the past, that the danger is if you are classified as being non resident.

If you essentially live in Australia, maintain a residence, have active bank accounts, have utility expenses that you can prove are being paid by yourself and are liable for normal taxation each year, how can they say that you are not maintaining this 2 year qualification. Where is it written in any way that you, if you want a pension are not allowed to leave the shores.

Of course, if you declare yourself as a non resident for tax purposes, you have signed your own d---h warrant in respect of the above, but what about the "common man"........................What is the safe "away from here formula"?

[GungaDin]

Surely this 2 year qualification is not as strict as that (although anything I suppose is possible)

<snip>

What is the safe "away from here formula"?

I would ask Hobart.

You will get 10 different answers from the local officers.

Get their answer in writing.

[samuibeachcomber]

as gungadin has said "write to hobart" I imagine each case is looked at on a case by case basis.I would think in your case with property,rates,taxes etc that you would not be classed as "a resident overseas" especially if you return often.In my case yes i would have to do the 2 year stint to reclaim any chance of a govt. pension.I do not have property in OZ any longer,my NSW driving licence has long expired as have my medicare card.Yes i am doomed,but so be it.The thought of treading water for 2 years in australia is not one i wish to do,and am happy to forego the pension.

[ozzydom]

Of course ,the simplest thing is to make a free call to Centrelink International and get the word straight from the horses mouth.

This paragraph ,lifted from a newspaper article could give a clue,......

"Centrelink will monitor DSP recipients who take more than three overseas trips a year to ensure they comply with new rules requiring that Australia be their principal place of residence."

It would seem that overseas holidays may be allowed as opposed to spending the bulk of your time outside Oz and only returning for a " holiday".

The case may very well be as harrry puts because a Brit mate of mine had to spend 2 years unbroken time in Oz to be eligable for his Oz Citizenship. He had a short (10 day ) holiday in Bali early in the piece and his 2 year period had to start upon his return.

Another posted asked about DSP fringe benefits , The DSP is actually more liberal than OAP because Assets and Liabilities are not taken into account with DSP and they receive the same "perks " as OAP.

One difference with DSP is that if you are receiving it as a result of say work or MV accident ,then upon Court or Insurance company settlement you are liable to repay Centrelink all previous pensions received.

[GungaDin]

Get it in writing from Hobart.

[GungaDin]

I still say......Get it in writing from Hobart.

[Pattayatony]

I still say......Get it in writing from Hobart.

You can also ask these people. http://www.welfarerights.org.au/default.aspx

[Evilbaz]

I still say......Get it in writing from Hobart.

Over 3 years I have found Centrelink International services in Hobart to be excellent in both the accuracy of their information and in helpfulness.

I have continued to receive a full single basic OAP in LOS during this time.

Deducted are all the allowances based on Oz residency. You can earn $142 per F/N without deduction then 50c in the dollar is deducted after this.

(I have two pensions from Canada from working there in the 60s which cause a small deduction from the OAP).

Very clear advice from Hobart was to answer the Immigration question on leaving that: Yes - you consider Australia to be your home.

They link directly to the Immi computer. (this seems to affect reinstatement of PCC and Medicare on return -= both are automatically cancelled on exiting OZ.)

I have an O (other) visa which I renew each 12-15 months in Perth.

I'm not sure if an O(A) retirement visa means you are resident in LOS?

If you have a spouse or defacto living with you in OZ or LOS who is under pension age you will be classified as eligible with non-eligible partner and receive a % of the single rate.

PS There is no longer a "widows pension" (mentioned earlier).

[Patong Bob]

Re post 430 : assets and income are taken into account when assessing DSP. Liabilities are not.

[fishhooks]

With due respect you can read many pages in this topic to answer your question, too many possibilities and circumstances to put into an easy answer.

[skills32]

OK to really clarify this topic.

I have lived in Thailand for 10 years and turned 65 in 2007.

Early 2008 I went back to Oz and applied for the old man pension. This they granted but didn't tell me about the former residence rule.

I came back to Thailand a couple of months later and they disappeared my pension.Well I'm back on the phone and they tell me about the

former residence rule. If you leave Oz for more than 3 years and come back you are deemed a former resident and can get paid the pension

whilst you are in Oz but if you leave there is no portability ie you can't get paid if you are outside Oz.This lasts for 2 years and then

you can go anywhere and still get paid.

I fought this through all the stages and lost until I got to the AAT and after I lodged the appeal I had a phone call from them to sort

things out.I told the guy that the rule was brought in for (those) who came out here, worked for 10 years and went home

with their pension.I then told him that I had worked my whole life in OZ and went O/S because I couldn't get a job. He agreed and told me they would relax the rules.I've been back here for 18 months and the money is there every fortnight.

Hope that clears things up.

[NitNoi7]

I have just hit 65 after living in Asia for the last five years. I found this thread last year and followed the advice: Don't use your passport as ID and don't declare any foreign family, bank accounts, property or other assets. Unfortunately, question 29 on the current claim asks "Have you lived or traveled outside Australia since 1 September 1994, including short trips and holidays?"

Three days after submitting the form I got a phone call: "I understand you have recently returned to Australia."

The lady obviously had a screen showing my absences from Australia over the last few years. Let this be a warning to those Aussies here in their early 60's. You will be grilled on your residency and ties to foreign countries.

[gburns57au]

I have just hit 65 after living in Asia for the last five years. I found this thread last year and followed the advice: Don't use your passport as ID and don't declare any foreign family, bank accounts, property or other assets. Unfortunately, question 29 on the current claim asks "Have you lived or traveled outside Australia since 1 September 1994, including short trips and holidays?"

Three days after submitting the form I got a phone call: "I understand you have recently returned to Australia."

The lady obviously had a screen showing my absences from Australia over the last few years. Let this be a warning to those Aussies here in their early 60's. You will be grilled on your residency and ties to foreign countries.

Centrelink, ATO, Immigration etc..are all computer linked....that means they share information and can access all sort of things about you. Centrelink can see all your travel, where you have been and for how long at the touch of a button. When my wife went to Migrant education for her free english lessons, they knew who she was, what day she arrived, her flight number and visa status.

[fishhooks]

Graham is spot on with his post re the linked departments at this end and this has been known for quite some time.

If you have a file with Centrelink every departure and arrival is listed and will automatically be in bold print when you apply for the pension.

NitNoi7:

You have stated above that you have lived out of Australia for 5 years and this to Centrelink when applying for the pension brings up the residency question on Austalian shores immediately.

This is explained in this thread in some detail over the last year and the thrust of the regulation has hit some already.

So with due respect I'm not at all surprised that you were "Grilled" particularly with respect to the 5 year absence.

What you don't say, which I'm sure would be of great interest to us all, is what has been the net result of your situation following this grilling.

I reckon most would have difficulty in explaining the long absence as in your case, (although at least one member went to the next level of officer and won), but the other part of this "Question 29" referring to short trips and holidays should be reasonably easy to explain and in some cases prove and I don't think these should have any bearing on whether you are granted the pension.

I'm sure no government department and in this case Centrelink, can virtually ban you from leaving Australia for short trips come holidays within the 2 years prior to Pension Age.

Many of us here have family overseas and even a longish holiday to visit should fit well within whatever regulation they have.

What is not known and I have asked here before without anyone having practical experience, is just how long for a holiday or family visit is reasonable and allowable under whatever regulation exists.

Is there a regulation?

I guess the only action one can take is, if they are having difficulty with this circumstance, is to go up the ladder until you get satisfaction. How many rungs in that ladder?.............I don't know!

Of course you can phone the Hobart section which has been advised in posts above, but I'm fairly sure you will only given some verbal advice which some other officer in another state not directly connected with the overseas section could possibly ignore and you will still be left with "fighting" the issue until you hopefully get satisfaction!

[Pattayatony]

There has a been a forum started to help give advice to Australian Pensioners.

http://dspoverseas.proboards.com/index.cgi

There are a lot of Australian pensioners living in Thailand and other parts os S.E.A. that are being affected by new rules etc being brought in by Centerlink.

When I returned to Australia in 2008 I had problems with C/L and no where to get help. They C/L would not even let me see or contact the Social worker. So I think this new forum will be a good thing for us to get advice etc.

If thaivisa remove the link please P.M. me for further contact.

Cheers Tony

[Pattayatony]

Sorry to be the bearer of Bad News, my wife and I are both australian old age pensioners, we were leaving australia on the 21st of september last year on a 6 month tour of asia and europe, we were informed by immigration at Brisbane if we stayed out of australia for more than 13 weeks we would both lose our age pension and have to wait a further 3 months before being eligable to apply again,so we cut short our trip and returned after 12 weeks,when we returned on the 3rd of december we contacted a solicitor to check up on this new regulation, uptil now all we are getting is conflicting informationas soon as we hear something definite in writing we will post it here Nignoy

Nignoy I know this is going back a couple years but did you ever get this sorted?

Cheers Tony

[actiondell4]

For those interested in court cases from expats appealing Social Security/Centrelink decisions you can see many cases here.austlii website

Its all public for anyone to see.

Herers one case where the guy lost his pension because he wasnt living in Thailand for the last 5 years....Heres his appeal case...he lost.

...........http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2007/1661.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=thailand

[fishhooks]

actiondell4:

I've had a quick read re the case referred, I stand to be corrected, but it looks to me as if this guy had quite a history in and around his application of being more tied to Thailand than Australia.

I think anyone applying for the OAP at 65 needs to demonstrate the reverse, even if they later make the move off-shore!

[rick75]

Ok so I am asking this question on behalf of a mate that is about to retire, he is just over 65 and will go on the australian OAP, He is single has resided in Australia and has no ties to Thailand, but would like to retire there.

I seem to be reading about the initial 2 years and time spent abroad, my question is if he gets the pension and within a few months permanantly moves to Thailand will they cut off His pension?, am I understanding this correctly, does a new recipient on the Aussie OAP have to spend the lion share of His time in Australia within the first two year period to avoid problems.

Thanks in advance.

[harrry]

Ok so I am asking this question on behalf of a mate that is about to retire, he is just over 65 and will go on the australian OAP, He is single has resided in Australia and has no ties to Thailand, but would like to retire there.

I seem to be reading about the initial 2 years and time spent abroad, my question is if he gets the pension and within a few months permanantly moves to Thailand will they cut off His pension?, am I understanding this correctly, does a new recipient on the Aussie OAP have to spend the lion share of His time in Australia within the first two year period to avoid problems.

Thanks in advance.

He must spend ALL of the next two years in Australia or it stops. If he leaves in the two yeas even for a day the pension stops. on returning he must apply again and a new two year period starts. Pretty nasty isnt it. Only exception seems to be if he goes to stay in a country with a treaty with entrelink and Thailand does not.

[rick75]

Harry, really they can't stop your payments if you go on a holiday overseas can they? Even like a two week trip, man they are tough.

Ok so I am asking this question on behalf of a mate that is about to retire, he is just over 65 and will go on the australian OAP, He is single has resided in Australia and has no ties to Thailand, but would like to retire there.

I seem to be reading about the initial 2 years and time spent abroad, my question is if he gets the pension and within a few months permanantly moves to Thailand will they cut off His pension?, am I understanding this correctly, does a new recipient on the Aussie OAP have to spend the lion share of His time in Australia within the first two year period to avoid problems.

Thanks in advance.

He must spend ALL of the next two years in Australia or it stops. If he leaves in the two yeas even for a day the pension stops. on returning he must apply again and a new two year period starts. Pretty nasty isnt it. Only exception seems to be if he goes to stay in a country with a treaty with entrelink and Thailand does not.

[harrry]

Harry, really they can't stop your payments if you go on a holiday overseas can they? Even like a two week trip, man they are tough.

Ok so I am asking this question on behalf of a mate that is about to retire, he is just over 65 and will go on the australian OAP, He is single has resided in Australia and has no ties to Thailand, but would like to retire there.

I seem to be reading about the initial 2 years and time spent abroad, my question is if he gets the pension and within a few months permanantly moves to Thailand will they cut off His pension?, am I understanding this correctly, does a new recipient on the Aussie OAP have to spend the lion share of His time in Australia within the first two year period to avoid problems.

Thanks in advance.

He must spend ALL of the next two years in Australia or it stops. If he leaves in the two yeas even for a day the pension stops. on returning he must apply again and a new two year period starts. Pretty nasty isnt it. Only exception seems to be if he goes to stay in a country with a treaty with entrelink and Thailand does not.

Even a One day trip and yes they are tough and No I do not agree that it is right or of any benefit to Australia.----------------------------------

[fishhooks]

Are we talking here of people who leave on a "holiday", shortly after being granted the OAP, or those who pack their bags and set off for good?

I'm fairly sure I've known of people who retire @ 65, get the OAP and then take an O/S trip, without any penalty other than the pension being stopped whilst they are away O/S.

If they spend LESS than 13 weeks away, they (I think) then need to simply re-apply for the pension to re start. If they spend MORE than 13 weeks away, the re-application is a tad more complicated but the pension is reinstated shortly afterward.

Those on Centrelink "Newstart" who go overseas come under this same less than or more than 13 week rule, thus a fairly simple re application on return for less than 13 weeks, or more complicated re application if away for more than 13 weeks, even one day over!

I'm certainly no expert on this and Harry, you seem to have distinct knowledge of the subject. But if what you say in the few posts above is true, it's without doubt a real and definite denial of normal human rights, even allowing for the fact that Centrelink is involved.

[harrry]

Are we talking here of people who leave on a "holiday", shortly after being granted the OAP, or those who pack their bags and set off for good?

I'm fairly sure I've known of people who retire @ 65, get the OAP and then take an O/S trip, without any penalty other than the pension being stopped whilst they are away O/S.

If they spend LESS than 13 weeks away, they (I think) then need to simply re-apply for the pension to re start. If they spend MORE than 13 weeks away, the re-application is a tad more complicated but the pension is reinstated shortly afterward.

Those on Centrelink "Newstart" who go overseas come under this same less than or more than 13 week rule, thus a fairly simple re application on return for less than 13 weeks, or more complicated re application if away for more than 13 weeks, even one day over!

I'm certainly no expert on this and Harry, you seem to have distinct knowledge of the subject. But if what you say in the few posts above is true, it's without doubt a real and definite denial of normal human rights, even allowing for the fact that Centrelink is involved.

If they have been in Australia constantly for the two years before they apply they may leave otherwise they have to wait 2 full years..restarting at each break.