Learning Thai Characters First.

[micksterbs]

I've been here a little over eighteen months now and, frankly, my grasp of Thai is pretty pathetic. Lets be even more frank; it's non-existent! Ok, I can count, say hello/goodbye, thank you and ask for a few basic things but I'm pretty ashamed of myself.

I put this down to two things:

1. My Thai wife is an English teacher and actually does speak bloody good English. This has made me very lazy, I'm afraid.

2. With other languages, I've always picked them up reasonably well as I tend to "collect" words as I walk/cycle/drive around from shop signs, road signs, advertisment hoardings, etc. I would then ask someone or just look them up and discover their meaning.

This last point got me thinking; as I cannot learn words visually due to their being in Thai script, would it be a good idea to learn Thai script right at the start? I've floated this idea with a couple of long-term expats and both of them learned to read Thai before they could speak much. I would be very interested to hear others' views and experiences on this and if anyone could recommend a good book to teach myself Thai script, alphabet etc.

[skippybangkok]

2. With other languages, I've always picked them up reasonably well as I tend to "collect" words as I walk/cycle/drive around from shop signs, road signs, advertisment hoardings, etc. I would then ask someone or just look them up and discover their meaning.

Yep, that was my way. In one ear, out the other, but if i see i remember.

You can learn to read the letter in a week - maybe an hour per day, and start your journey from there. ( If you want to learn correct pronounciation, thats another issue ..............)

[jumnien]

Yes, learning to read letters and a few words will make speaking much easier. Most of us have strong visual memory and association.

[withnail]

I wouldn't recommend learning to read before you can say the sounds that the letters represent or before you can understand and reproduce both the vowel sounds (long and short) and all of the tones to some degree of accuracy. It's pointless learning that ก, for example, is k or g and that ค is either kh or k until you realise what that means. Certainly, learning tone rules before tones might be too difficult as well, although most people will tell you that their pronunciation got considerably better after learning to read.

Other than that I would say that learning to read should be done as early as possible. Knowing some vocab will speed up the process of learning to read although I found that in reality I had to re-learn many words as I only had the transliterated version in my mind and this was for whatever reason not accurate.

Most of the decent schools agree with this and spend some time on phonetics and basic vocab/conversation before introducing the writing system, but are careful to stick to one method of transliteration so that when the writing system is learned you shouldn't have too many bad habits to erase.

[garro]

I began learning to read from the start. I like reading and was fascinated by the funny symbols. I concentrated on the Thai tone rules right away and could hear them in my head correctly long before I could reproduce them in conversation. Once I could read to a basic level I put away the text books and concentrated on books that interested me. I practiced the tone rules on every new word I saw until I began to know the tone automatically. I can now read to a fairly high standard but my conversation skills are not as good. I prefer to read than talk anyway.Although my wife would disagree

If you are going to learn the consonants first I would suggest that you learn them as part of their consonant class group. So learn all the high consonants together. You have the rest of your life to learn to recite the Thai alphabet. Best of luck. It can be a hard old slog for some people and it is natural to get disheartened every few years and want to chuck it in. If you keep going you will improve. I would suggest practicing every day religiously.

[siamesekitty]

I guess everyone has their own style of learning, but I'll venture a few suggestions:

- Focus on the most commonly used letters, don't worry about memorizing every single letter of the alphabet

- People may disagree with me on this one, but I think you can leave the tones out for now, lest the whole thing overwhelms you. Just getting the consonants and vowels right is hard enough as it is.

- Once you have a general idea of how the consonants and vowels fit together to make syllables, and consequently, words, then you will be better equipped to understand the tone rules. I feel they are very difficult for those who are tone-deaf (which seems to be a majority of farangs ) and a piece of cake for those who are good at music.

- Key success factor: Determination and enthusiasm to learn what the words written and spoken around you mean

[micksterbs]

Many thanks for all replies.

I think I'm a bit overwhelmed with this language. I keep thinking that having to learn new characters as well will automatically make things more difficult which seems logical. I've always managed to just "acquire" languages in the past but that was using a familiar set of letters. I don't want to see Thai as this twelve-foot wall in front of me but it does feel that way sometimes!

Is there such a thing as a book written for Westerners learning Thai script or should I simply ask my wife to write down a list of characters and their associated sounds?

[BirdieMan]

Is there such a thing as a book written for Westerners learning Thai script or should I simply ask my wife to write down a list of characters and their associated sounds?

Try http://thai-language.com/ and http://www.learningthai.com/thai_alphabet.html

They have good sections on learning Thai script

[micksterbs]

Is there such a thing as a book written for Westerners learning Thai script or should I simply ask my wife to write down a list of characters and their associated sounds?

Try http://thai-language.com/ and http://www.learningthai.com/thai_alphabet.html

They have good sections on learning Thai script

Thanks BirdieMan.

[Briggsy]

10 years ago, AUA had a pair of books. One was a textbook and the other a workbook. They cost 200 Baht each and were laid out in a very organised fashion.I never spent a satang on any lessons but the books were great. If they're still around, I'd recommend them.

I tend to disagree with Siamesekitty on the tones as if you are able to make any headway at all, you will soon discover that the tones are intrinsically locked into the spelling of a word. So I feel it would be like learning to drive in first gear only. The limitations would soon become very apparent. That's my opinion anyway.

[micksterbs]

10 years ago, AUA had a pair of books. One was a textbook and the other a workbook. They cost 200 Baht each and were laid out in a very organised fashion.I never spent a satang on any lessons but the books were great. If they're still around, I'd recommend them.

I tend to disagree with Siamesekitty on the tones as if you are able to make any headway at all, you will soon discover that the tones are intrinsically locked into the spelling of a word. So I feel it would be like learning to drive in first gear only. The limitations would soon become very apparent. That's my opinion anyway.

Ok Briggsy, cheers. What is AUA? Excuse my ignorance...

[Razr]

I learnt to read Thai before I could even pronounce สวัสดีครับ without sounding like dufus. Wouldn't want to have learnt it any other way though - the power of reading = the power of learning. I still suck at Thai however.

[DavidHouston]

10 years ago, AUA had a pair of books. One was a textbook and the other a workbook. They cost 200 Baht each and were laid out in a very organised fashion.I never spent a satang on any lessons but the books were great. If they're still around, I'd recommend them.

I tend to disagree with Siamesekitty on the tones as if you are able to make any headway at all, you will soon discover that the tones are intrinsically locked into the spelling of a word. So I feel it would be like learning to drive in first gear only. The limitations would soon become very apparent. That's my opinion anyway.

Ok Briggsy, cheers. What is AUA? Excuse my ignorance...

You may wish to look at http://www.auathailand.org/chiangmai/ThaiLanguage.html

[Briggsy]

American University Alumni.

Basically a big language school with branches in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. But I see you live in Khon Kaen! Somebody would have to send them to you.

Another very useful book is the Rough Guide Phrasebook. It will help you to build your vocabulary as it has Thai spelt out in Roman letters (and Thai) and again is well thought out.

[lokyluky]

There's an ebook called 60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet - it makes learning the letters and tones a piece of cake. Its avaiable on EasyThaiAlphabet .com

[desi]

There's an ebook called 60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet - it makes learning the letters and tones a piece of cake. Its avaiable on EasyThaiAlphabet .com

I second that. And using this method, learning Thai numbers only takes 5 minutes because it's so logical.

The big problem with this is it freaks Thai teachers out.

(so I whisper the 60 min answers in my head before responding out loud)

[meadish_sweetball]

I learned Thai at university, starting from the phonetic angle. While the very first lesson we had was copying the entire alphabet character by character while our teacher named them, this chart we made was only meant as an initial overview, and to be used for later reference.

Subsequent lessons focused on the actual sounds of the Thai language, rather than the letters and signs of the Thai alphabet.

To describe these sounds, we learned the AUA phonetic system which is based on the international phonetic alphabet, the universally accepted tool for describing all human languages and the basis for how linguists from different language backgrounds present their research to each other.

For somebody who is already familiar with the international phonetic alphabet, this approach makes a lot of sense. To people who are not acquainted with it, it can seem strange and cumbersome.

It is not known by Thais in general, so you will not be able to use this system to communicate in writing with Thais - they will use, and expect you to use, some type of English-based system - because they associate Roman letters with the English language.

Alongside with the AUA phonetic system, we gradually learned the Thai letters, also using Marvin Brown's AUA method, which presents the Thai characters in their low/mid/high classes but also paying attention to their phonetic properties. We started with the low class consonants, moved on to the middle class consonants and finished off with the high class consonants. The vowel signs were also introduced gradually, presenting the simplest, single symbols first, and the most complex ones last.

I think most people who have successfully learned to read, write and pronounce Thai will be partial to the method they used themselves, and I am no different.

If you are analytically minded, have studied other languages before and like a theoretical approach, I would recommend using a similar approach as me. If you are not a fan of formal learning there will be better approaches.

Will be happy to answer any questions about the approach I used.

[fresnoboy]

There's an ebook called 60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet - it makes learning the letters and tones a piece of cake. Its avaiable on EasyThaiAlphabet .com

Somehow, it seems impossible for me to access that site.Any suggestions ?

[kriswillems]

try:

http://www.cnet.com.au/downloads/0,2390303...0510334s,00.htm

or

http://1steasythaialphabet.com/

It's not free and I am not sure it's worth paying for.

The user that first suggested this e-book has only made 3 posts on Thaivisa (in several months), of which 2 are promoting this e-book.

[mssabai]

I am learning to read at the moment with Thai for beginners by Benjawan Poomsan Becker. It is a really good book. It teaches you the consonant classes first - important when you come to learning the tones later. I am really interested in learning the Thai alphabet and it makes journeys pass quicker when you are trying to read road signs the whole way! I think it is helping my Thai progress faster too as I can read simple words and ask what they mean. This is how I learnt the word for stop!

I work in a kindergarden and it is great hearing the kids recite their tones. That is something your wife can really help you with. Childrens text books can be useful for practicing writing, the alphabet and the tones too. Just be prepared for the vowels, there are a lot and the sounds can be really hard. Again your wife can help you though so you are in an excellent position!

[siamkiwi]

I've got one of those kids wall charts with the letter and a picture, so you learn some new words at the same time. I still can't read many words, but I can read number plates!

[Johpa]

American University Alumni.

Basically a big language school with branches in Bangkok and Chiang Mai. But I see you live in Khon Kaen! Somebody would have to send them to you.

For many decades AUA was the only institution with an organized Thai curriculum. It was also the primary private institution teaching English to Thais, and also served as a primary channel for Thai students seeking to study in the US. The man behind the Thai curriculum was the linguist Marvin Brown. He created what I believe to be the most accurate transliteration system out there, a system that I still use in a slightly simplified form. The curriculum came with books and tapes. My Thai university professor was both a peer and acquaintance of Brown and used the AUA curriculum. It emphasized using the transliteration system as a starting point, beginning the Thai alphabet later during the first year, and ending the first year with the Haas reader. The second year we read the Jone et al Thai Cultural Reader which transitioned from writings aimed at students to articles aimed at Thais.

Haas, Brown, Jones et al, and my professor were all part of a very small pioneering academic community in the US (Cornell and Berkeley) involved with studying Thai and devising a curriculum to teach Thai. The theoretical background at that time in the early 1960s was structuralist in approach, think of the old language labs, and is not currently in favor. Many years ago AUA offered either their older Marvin Brown traditional method or the newer "natural" method. I haven't taught at AUA Chiang Mai in decades so I don't know what methods they employ today. It is now hard to find any instructors willing to use the structural methods, but I must say my Thai professor was very successful using the old AUA curriculum. His replacement, also a friend of mine, can't even imagine using those methods.

And just in case there any other AUA dinosaurs out there, for old times sake, "raan ?ahaan nik yuu thii nai?"

[everydaysthesame]

I've got one of those kids wall charts with the letter and a picture, so you learn some new words at the same time. I still can't read many words, but I can read number plates!

I buy the Thai Alphabet picture books for kids, where you trace over the letters. Found it very easy to learn the alphabet this way. Just learnt the tone rules which i hadn't bothered dong for 2 years. i would suggest learning the alphabet first as it would have been too much for me personally to learn the alphabet and tone rules together.

definatley worth learning the alphabet. its really fairly easy and I find it a really interesting challenge trying to desipher the written language which is everywhere.

[pgs]

We used www.thai-language.com for a while before it went off air. Great site & very helpful. Seems to be pretty much back to where it was now, which is great.

Another great place is It's 4 Thai - they have 10 free lessons here: http://www.its4thai.com/ten_free_thai_language_lessons.html which TW agreed helped me a bit. Prices for the full online course are quite reasonable.

If the link gets removes, PM & I'll send it direct.

[Buzby]

I've got one of those kids wall charts with the letter and a picture, so you learn some new words at the same time. I still can't read many words, but I can read number plates!

I buy the Thai Alphabet picture books for kids, where you trace over the letters. Found it very easy to learn the alphabet this way. Just learnt the tone rules which i hadn't bothered dong for 2 years. i would suggest learning the alphabet first as it would have been too much for me personally to learn the alphabet and tone rules together.

definatley worth learning the alphabet. its really fairly easy and I find it a really interesting challenge trying to desipher the written language which is everywhere.

I recently bought a pack of cards with a consonant on each one. One side has letter and picture, the reverse side has 3 or 4 other words (and pics) containing that consonant. Great for improving vocabulary.

The cards are just a little larger than standard playing cards so not too inconvenient to carry around. Gives me something to do when sat in traffic in a taxi.

I bought mine from B2S. Kiddies section. 70thb.

[ray23]

I have found that working on the reading and writing helps to keep my attention. There are book out that you can trace the costanents on to practice along with words the at repersent the constants and then use the vowels to make to make the appropriate sounds.

I have found that a physical activity such a keeping notes has always helped me to remember, these seems to work the same for me.

Certainly worht 32 baht designed for three year olds and up you guessed it can't find a three year anywhere when I need them

[Tod Daniels]

I studied the thai language intensely for about 10 months by myself at home before enrolling in a school to better my reading and pronunciation. Teaching myself to read was what really got my language skills moving. I can speak reasonably well but if I am going to be in a thai conversation of any length I'll throw in my 'frozen phrase'; "I know already I speak like a foreigner with some words' pronunciation not correct and a hard accent; BUT if you understand me DON'T correct me." Usually I'll also ask them top speak slowly because my ears cannot keep up. I can converse about most things quite easily now. Once a thai switches their ears from thinking I am going to speak english into the 'Oh, he can speak thai' mode, I am understood quite well most of the time.

Back to the OP's topic; I would say learning to read is about the BEST thing I did as far as advancing my language acquisition skill here. Some words still give me fits with their inherent vowels, or consonants which are finals on one syllable and initials on the following one. Other then some quirky pronunciation rules for words, their language is fairly straightforward, and I can get reasonably close to the pronunciation of unfamiliar words whose meaning I have not a single clue or idea of. Sometimes when I am out and about and see something written out I can't decipher I take a pic with my phone to look it up later.

While some thai words can look daunting, and with no break between words in sentences it can be tough initially you must realize most thai words are SMALL words which are grouped together to form compound words, thoughts, or concepts. Many words are high frequency words; used over and over in writing and daily speech. Just as an example; the word for "Immigration" from the thai-language dot com site is กรมตรวจคนเข้าเมือง, breaking the words down gives you กรม - a prefix denoting a government office, ตรวจ - (to) check, คน - people, เข้า - (to) enter, เมือง - (a) country. Pretty self explanatory when you break the words apart, and while initially that word looks dauntingly large; it is composed of 5 smaller words, several which are commonly used high frequency words.

Even though I have never learned the tone rules, nor know a high class from a low class consonant I can read really well, because it is done silently. Once you recognize how a word is spelled and it's corresponding meaning in your head, whether you pronounce it correctly is only a concern for spoken thai. I spend several hours a day practicing vocabulary, putting new words on my white board, to remember them, and trying to use them in spoken sentences.

I would say learn the consonants and vowels, then the tone marks, for while there are 5 tones possible in thai only one word has 4 of them. The high-middle-and low toned words will rarely be misunderstood by a thai when you talk to them. The falling and rising tones can throw you off your scripted conversation awfully fast though. I have concentrated only on those two tones, but learn them more by rote as vocabulary words, not the rules which govern pronunciation.

Each person picks up language differently, and what works for me may not for you. Try several schools, see which one works, and DON'T think your language acquisition abilities are less than normal just because one school's method doesn't click for you.

[siamesekitty]

I had suggested learning the letters without focusing too much on the tone rules because I once tried to teach Thai to a farang friend, and progress was hindered by the confusion regarding the tone rules. There were too many "why?"'s, and I think we could have gone through things a lot faster if I didn't have to keep explaining the seemingly illogical tone rules.

I think that's how it worked for me when I had to learn to read&write Thai. My mom sat me own with a P.1 book and we just plowed through with the reading. Of course I did get instruction for the tone rules later on, but by then it was a little easier because I'd already been a bit familiar with the various characters. Though I did understand spoken Thai prior to that, so I learned quickly.

[MaiThaiMai]

There's an ebook called 60 minutes to learn the thai alphabet - it makes learning the letters and tones a piece of cake. Its avaiable on EasyThaiAlphabet .com

Somehow, it seems impossible for me to access that site.Any suggestions ?

missing www and *space* before .com doesn't help I imagine...

http://www.easythaialphabet.com/

HTH...

MaiThaiMai

[DavidHouston]

I had suggested learning the letters without focusing too much on the tone rules because I once tried to teach Thai to a farang friend, and progress was hindered by the confusion regarding the tone rules. There were too many "why?"'s, and I think we could have gone through things a lot faster if I didn't have to keep explaining the seemingly illogical tone rules.

I think that's how it worked for me when I had to learn to read&write Thai. My mom sat me own with a P.1 book and we just plowed through with the reading. Of course I did get instruction for the tone rules later on, but by then it was a little easier because I'd already been a bit familiar with the various characters. Though I did understand spoken Thai prior to that, so I learned quickly.

I agree with you completely: in first learning a language, "why" is an invalid question; the only question which should be allowed is "how."