Why Some Thais Pronounce Suvarnabhumi As Suwanapoom ?

[phrakid]

the pronounce Suvarnabhumi without the 'i' behind, n the v sounds like w, n the b sounds like p...

so which is the proper pronounciation?

sorry if this has been asked before

[madjbs]

Why Some Thais Pronounce Suvarnabhumi As Suwanapoom?

umm... because that is how ALL Thai people pronounce it. The English word is just a transliteration from Sanskrit and therefore does not accurately represent how the word is pronounced in Thai.

[BambinA]

Thais pronouce this word as su-waan-na-poom

Trirat 07/04/2007 03:56 IP: 58.64.126.228

Ngohn, your third point I quote in full here because it seems to be a point of contention among farangs: “And, regarding the name of the airport, who are the idiots who decided to write Suvarnabhumi - when it is pronounced as "Suwanna-poom? (as in "room")? Apart from the rogue "v," there is no such thing as a "bh" in English, and the sound is clearly a "p" sound. Also - and this one really sticks in my craw - why write an "i" at the end when there is no "i" sound at the end??!!”

I’ve already said in the previous reply that a name can be spelt anyway the “owner” of the name wants. But what is the justification for choosing this spelling? First, the name is derived from Sankrit, the lingua franca of the ancient priestly class of India and Southeast Asia. Let’s say it’s the Latin and ancient Greek of this part of the world. Now the words varna and bhumi are regular Sanskrit words (Su is a prefix that means ‘good’), and that’s how they are transliterated into English. So it would be rather crass of the Thais to spell it as Suwannapoom, for example. It would be like using pig Latin. Now here’s the thing: the words varna and bhumi have entered English (more than a hundred years ago). Look them up! ‘Varna,’ which means color, refers to the caste system in India, while a search of Google will reveal literally hundreds of bhumis. There’s even “Bhumi—The Harvard International Development Group.” You can’t get anymore Brahmin than that! http://www.cid.harvard.edu/bhumi/

from http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webblog/vi...82&bid=2387

[toptuan]

Which brings up a pet peeve:

Why in Hades don't we get a PRONOUNCEABLE WORD in English when it is transliterated from the Thai? Why don't they transliterate the pronounced word, rather than the written word? This is prevalent in so much Thai-originating English, and is as frustrating as He_ll. I believe it's a plot to drive all farangs crazy, and a lot of us are near the edge already!

[madjbs]

See above

So it would be rather crass of the Thais to spell it as Suwannapoom, for example. It would be like using pig Latin.

[tw25rw]

the pronounce Suvarnabhumi without the 'i' behind, n the v sounds like w, n the b sounds like p...

so which is the proper pronounciation?

sorry if this has been asked before

Lot's of Thai names don't sound like they are transliterated..

King Bhumibol Adulyadej, Shinawatra and Sukhumvit for example.

Surin is the other way. It's spelt Surintra, but no one pronounces it that way.

[Richard W]

Why in Hades don't we get a PRONOUNCEABLE WORD in English when it is transliterated from the Thai? Why don't they transliterate the pronounced word, rather than the written word?

Perhaps it's because they prefer to deal with cultured people who will know from their Sanskrit studies that suvarNabhUmi (HK) means 'gold place', whereas sù wan ná phuum is only intelligible if you have specialised in Thai.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Richard W

[toptuan]

Why in Hades don't we get a PRONOUNCEABLE WORD in English when it is transliterated from the Thai? Why don't they transliterate the pronounced word, rather than the written word?

Perhaps it's because they prefer to deal with cultured people who will know from their Sanskrit studies that suvarNabhUmi (HK) means 'gold place', whereas sù wan ná phuum is only intelligible if you have specialised in Thai.

Well, now we know who flunked Sanskrit-101 at Harvard, don't we?

[sabaijai]

See above

So it would be rather crass of the Thais to spell it as Suwannapoom, for example. It would be like using pig Latin.

In fact the official transliteration, following the Royal Thai Institute, would be Suwannaphum, not Suvarnabhumi.

[happyinthai]

Thais pronouce this word as su-waan-na-poom

Not all... my wife says su-van-na-poom...

Issan

[Maestro]

...frustrating...

I agree with you. It is very frustrating the way the British do not write their words the way they pronounce them.

Of course, the British know how to write and pronounce their words, and the Thai know the same about theirs. But when it comes to transliteration, you never can please everybody.

--

Maestro

[madjbs]

See above

So it would be rather crass of the Thais to spell it as Suwannapoom, for example. It would be like using pig Latin.

In fact the official transliteration, following the Royal Thai Institute, would be Suwannaphum, not Suvarnabhumi.

I thought the Royal Thai Institute set the guide for transliterating Thai words? As this is Sanskrit and not originally Thai wouldn't it follow different rules?

[Maestro]

I believe it is futile to discuss this subject. I am not complaining that the English do not write Lester Square and Wooster Sauce, and I have not seen the Thai complaining about it. So what’s the big deal about Suvarnabhumi?

Live and let live, I say.

--

Maestro

[sabaijai]

See above

So it would be rather crass of the Thais to spell it as Suwannapoom, for example. It would be like using pig Latin.

In fact the official transliteration, following the Royal Thai Institute, would be Suwannaphum, not Suvarnabhumi.

I thought the Royal Thai Institute set the guide for transliterating Thai words? As this is Sanskrit and not originally Thai wouldn't it follow different rules?

Nope. RTGS applies to all Thai words regardless of origin (eg Nakhon Si Thammarat rather than Nagara Sri Dhammaraja, which is also 100% Pali/Sanskrit).

Maestro, it's not really comparable to English spelling since in the case of Lester vs Leicester the Roman alphabet is used for both. With the Roman transcription of Thai words, the RTGS provides a handy, standardised system. Unfortunately it's not always followed

[tw25rw]

Which brings up a pet peeve:

Why in Hades don't we get a PRONOUNCEABLE WORD in English when it is transliterated from the Thai? Why don't they transliterate the pronounced word, rather than the written word? This is prevalent in so much Thai-originating English, and is as frustrating as He_ll. I believe it's a plot to drive all farangs crazy, and a lot of us are near the edge already!

I suppose that really, these words are not transliterated into English, but into the Roman alphabet.

They will need another step to make them pronounceable in English.

[dantilley]

the English do not write Lester Square and Wooster Sauce, and I have not seen the Thai complaining about it.

I do, every time I hear of someone learning those words.

Has to be said, though, that English must be one real bitch of a language to learn as a second language. Thai is relatively easy, really, in comparison.

[Wombat6]

If your having trouble getting your tongue around it, just say Bankok Airport!!

[stiffoak571]

the English do not write Lester Square and Wooster Sauce, and I have not seen the Thai complaining about it.

I do, every time I hear of someone learning those words.

Has to be said, though, that English must be one real bitch of a language to learn as a second language. Thai is relatively easy, really, in comparison.

The Leicester thing is simple if you know your Latin (?) and all cester/chester etc in UK all come from castra meaning camp and shows where Roman forts existed

[dantilley]

If your having trouble getting your tongue around it, just say Bankok Airport!!

Yeah but then it could be either Suvarnabhumi or Don Muang...

[AlexLah]

The same with for example: Rama 4

Why the Thai say: Paaram sii?

Why?

[AlexLah]

If your having trouble getting your tongue around it, just say Bankok Airport!!

Yeah but then it could be either Suvarnabhumi or Don Muang...

Why not say: To the old new airport (Suvanah pum)

The new old airport is Don Muang, na na na?

[kiakaha]

the pronounce Suvarnabhumi without the 'i' behind, n the v sounds like w, n the b sounds like p...

so which is the proper pronounciation?

sorry if this has been asked before

can you read thai script ? สุวรรณภูมิ

roman transliterations are merely a rough guide but not phonetically correct.

[tw25rw]

the pronounce Suvarnabhumi without the 'i' behind, n the v sounds like w, n the b sounds like p...

so which is the proper pronounciation?

sorry if this has been asked before

can you read thai script ? สุวรรณภูมิ

roman transliterations are merely a rough guide but not phonetically correct.

So the มิ which would sound like mi is just an m at the end of a word?

Is this consistent or just something to be remembered in this case?

[kiakaha]

the pronounce Suvarnabhumi without the 'i' behind, n the v sounds like w, n the b sounds like p...

so which is the proper pronounciation?

sorry if this has been asked before

can you read thai script ? สุวรรณภูมิ

roman transliterations are merely a rough guide but not phonetically correct.

So the มิ which would sound like mi is just an m at the end of a word?

Is this consistent or just something to be remembered in this case?

the font is pretty small, but the vowel is an "i" as in sit rather than an "ee" as in see (the character for those 2 vowels is very similar in appearance at small resolutions) , maybe thats what you meant anyway.

i dont know of the exact rule regarding not pronouncing it in this instance(maybe some of our more advanced readers can elaborate), but even if you try to say it, the "i" doesn't really seem to come out audibly anyway.

[Richard W]

So the มิ which would sound like mi is just an m at the end of a word?

Is this consistent or just something to be remembered in this case?

It's case by case for the similar case of ติ t(i). The final element is even worse, as word final it's phuum but as the first element of a word it's phuumi. Even this is not as simple as it sounds, for it is not always obvious whether you have two words or one word.

[billd766]

And if you think that is bad try Welsh such as this one

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

This Welsh town actually exists and its name translates as "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".

For brevity, it is understandable that many of the locals simply refer to their village as "Llanfair" www.llanfair.com or "Llanfair PG" or "Llanfairpwll" which, of course, makes for easier typing and is faster to pronounce.

Prior to October 1999 it was not possible to register .com domain names longer than 26 characters (including 4 for the .com suffix). This denied many businesses and organisations the ability to register their full trading names as a .com domain name. However in October 1999, it became possible to register domain names up to 67 characters in length (including the 4 for the .com suffix).

Companies with names such as Cheltenham and Gloucester were then able to secure their trading names

with a .com suffix www.cheltenhamandgloucester.com (27 characters).

For more information about places of interest or associated with llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

There is a station in Wales called Gorsafawddachaidraigodanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion but this is well less known.

And finally, sadly even the 67 character allowance for a .com domain name is still insufficient for the town of

Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapihimaungahoronukupokaiwhenu

aakitanarahu

in New Zealand with a staggering 92 characters however even this seems positively tiny compared to the town of

Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphop

nopparatrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharn

amornphimarnavatarnsathitsakkattiyavisanukamprasit

in Thailand which is a whopping 163 characters long so long that it doesn't even fit on one line! However whilst the New Zealand place name is recognised by the Guiness Book of Record, the Thailand name is not.

Other long names (but not place names) include words such as Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis (and many others) .

[grtaylor]

The same with for example: Rama 4

Why the Thai say: Paaram sii?

Why?

Its Pra Ram sii - Pra being the "honorific" you would use with Rama.

G

[grtaylor]

And if you think that is bad try Welsh such as this one

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

This Welsh town actually exists and its name translates as "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".

For brevity, it is understandable that many of the locals simply refer to their village as "Llanfair" www.llanfair.com or "Llanfair PG" or "Llanfairpwll" which, of course, makes for easier typing and is faster to pronounce.

Prior to October 1999 it was not possible to register .com domain names longer than 26 characters (including 4 for the .com suffix). This denied many businesses and organisations the ability to register their full trading names as a .com domain name. However in October 1999, it became possible to register domain names up to 67 characters in length (including the 4 for the .com suffix).

Companies with names such as Cheltenham and Gloucester were then able to secure their trading names

with a .com suffix www.cheltenhamandgloucester.com (27 characters).

For more information about places of interest or associated with llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

There is a station in Wales called Gorsafawddachaidraigodanheddogleddollonpenrhynareurdraethceredigion but this is well less known.

And finally, sadly even the 67 character allowance for a .com domain name is still insufficient for the town of

Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapihimaungahoronukupokaiwhenu

aakitanarahu

in New Zealand with a staggering 92 characters however even this seems positively tiny compared to the town of

Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphop

nopparatrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharn

amornphimarnavatarnsathitsakkattiyavisanukamprasit

in Thailand which is a whopping 163 characters long so long that it doesn't even fit on one line! However whilst the New Zealand place name is recognised by the Guiness Book of Record, the Thailand name is not.

Other long names (but not place names) include words such as Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis (and many others) .

I believe the full name of Bangkok is not recognised by the Guinness Book of Records because the Roman Alphabet is not its native alphabet.

[steveromagnino]

I believe the full name of Bangkok is not recognised by the Guinness Book of Records because the Roman Alphabet is not its native alphabet.

whereas being that Maori did not have a native written alphabet, it should be accepted???!

Frigging stupid Guiness.

[kiakaha]

I believe the full name of Bangkok is not recognised by the Guinness Book of Records because the Roman Alphabet is not its native alphabet.

whereas being that Maori did not have a native written alphabet, it should be accepted???!

Frigging stupid Guiness.

I think they get away on a technicality, given that romanized Te Reo is their first written script, it is then also their native(for lack of a better term) written script.(unlike romanized thai, japanese romaji etc...)