Samak Sundaravej was elected

[Jai Dee]

HM the King approves parliament selection of Prime Minister

His Majesty the King has declared that after reviewing the House of Representatives selection for Prime Minister he has seen fit to approve of Mr. Samak Sundaravej to take on the role of premier.

His Majesty’s royal address stated that as the parliament and its members have submitted the name of People Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej as its selection for Prime Minister with votes exceeding half of all members of parliament His Majesty has seen fit to consent to their selection. His Majesty has thus stated that Mr. Samak is able to act in the position to the entrustment of His Majesty.

Acting according to article 171 of the Thai Constitution His Majesty the King exercised his ability to instate Mr. Samak as the Prime Minister of the Kingdom.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 30 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

A reminder to all members: Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden.

From the Forum Rules.

[ray08]

The Prime Minister was the leader of a democratically elected government ,which by the way had all the odds stacked against it , he deserves the job and the PPP deserve to be in Government ,why all the arguments ,THIS IS DEMOCRACY AND A FREE WORLD , NOT SOLDIERS DECIDING WHAT IS BEST

Thank you for posting that, Ray.

Always nice to hear an informed opinion.

In a similar fashion, would Ray care to expound any on the background of his opinion?

Well common sense tells us that having a government voted in by the people is surely more democratic , than an Army General taking the power of God in his hand and deciding that he should be the one person to decide who shall be PM for 60 million people , them put in a puppet PM and beging to increase budgets for the Armed forces and put the boys in top Jobs,and make new laws with no mandate.

I am not saying that Taksin or Samak are saints by any means ,but at least they are in power because they were voted in by the people ,

As for a vote for Samak being a vote for Taksin , This was never a secret and in he was in fact open about , so blind freddy knew a vote for PPP was a vote for Taksin ,and that was what people wanted in the end

The alternative Democrat party had a golden opportunity to win government with elections being overseen by the coup , and with the PPP( Taksin ) being belted every day in the pappers ,

And lets not forget the huge numbers of laws passed in the last few days by the NLA,

As for Vote buying , yes in the past this has happened , but i am not so sure with all the Scrutiny by the EC that the PPP could get away with much, and again who says the Democrats are all clean,

Samak is not perfect or the PPP , but the alternative is Army genrals running a country , eg Burma , Cuba, or the Democrats who really are not entitled to govern because , they had the chance of a lifetime and blew it , i would point out the next election held here if without Military intervention the democrats will go the way of the Australian Democrats , for non Aussies that means down the toilet

[younghusband]

Ehm, the Chuan governent went nowhere in trying to get out of the economic crisis. That was Thaksin, remember, who got Thailand back on track economically. This really isn't disputed I think.. (well.. there's always some of course.. )

Really? Lets see.

1997 Asian Financial Crisis. Leadership team included Banharn, Chavalit and a one Dr Thaksin. Let the BOT go broke, but not before they changed all their money to dollars first.

Post 1997: Reforms were put in place by Chuan. Tough economic medicine takes time to work. Central bankers regularly talk about simple interest rate changes taking 18 months to wash though the system. Moron voters actually then blamed Chuan for the economic crisis as I recall (see previous note on Thai voter amesia). He took the political hit for making the hard decisions which led to....

2001: Dear leader elected. Surfed the wave of the beginnings of a strong economy that Chuan put in place. Then pissed it up againt the wall with unsustainable funding promises. Shincorp shares go through the roof.

2006: After 5 years of TRT destroying the foundations of a good economy, the Thai economy begins to stutter.

2007: Junta do good things for the economy reparing the foundations- unheraled, unseen, but positive.

2008: Economy will pick up. PPP elected. Who will take the credit for being superior economic managers? Thats right, the same people who will have their snouts in the trough.

Samran, As someone who has generally respected your contributions a lot of assertions you make above are in my view very dubious.(The role you attribute to Chuan is just plain wrong, and the suggestion -see plethora of research reports- that the economy was in poor shape at the time of the coup equally off beam.)It's all a bit off topic but if you wish to debate economic history of last decade perhaps another thread?

[Plus]

Re 1997 - tough economic conditions and the wrong prescriptions by IMF were negotiated by Thanong Bidaya (who later became a Finance Minister in Thaksin government), not by the Democrats.

Growth rate in 2000, last year of Chuan - 4%.

Growth rate in 2001, first year of Thaksin - 1.8%.

People gave him credit then and waited for results, and he delivered.

Growth rate in 2005 - 4.5%, again.

The "miracle" has ended, long before the coup.

>>>

Re. "democratic"

"having a government voted in by the people is surely more democratic" - technically people do not vote for the government, the government is selected by the PM. People never had any input in that selection process.

Thaksin was elected, of course, and so had a public mandate to form the government. At the moment of the coup, however, he was a caretaker PM, and he was awaiting results of a court case against his party (among other things). Turned out he was found legally unfit for any polical position.

That takes away some of his credibility as being "democratically elected".

[baanthale]

We're starting to get a few repeats, so for posters and journalists alike, the following terms have already been utilized for the new Prime Minister...

pugnacious

right-winger

monkey boy

sharp-tongued

combative

ultra-right wing

rabble-rouser

combative

proxy

pugnacious

loathed

bulbous nose

foul-mouthed pig

vitriolic

sharp-tongued

ultra-conservative

hot tempered

checkered past

fiery

abrasive

food-obsessed

Pig Man

porcine

Ai Dang Moo

scum

Acerbic

rude

turbulent

acid-tongued

This has to be the low water mark post of the year Like or dislike Thailands government as much as you want, but remember that you are a guest in this country! What about if someone posted pictures of you on a forum with a list of insults like this one!

I'm not a guest here, so obviously my opinion counts to you. So I'll repeat:

pugnacious

right-winger

monkey boy

sharp-tongued

combative

ultra-right wing

rabble-rouser

combative

proxy

pugnacious

loathed

bulbous nose

foul-mouthed pig

vitriolic

sharp-tongued

ultra-conservative

hot tempered

checkered past

fiery

abrasive

food-obsessed

Pig Man

porcine

Ai Dang Moo

scum

Acerbic

rude

turbulent

acid-tongued

and I'll add one more

CORRUPT

Good for you! But if you have been accepted by 60 million people in this country, as one of them, maybe you should show them a little respect for their democratic rights!

[sriracha john]

Thaksin nominees dominate

Potential ministers could clash with military over this year's reshuffles

Samak Sundaravej, the new prime minister, will be heading a Cabinet whose members are largely "nominees" of the 111 former executives of the defunct Thai Rak Thai Party.

Samak yesterday received His Majesty the King's endorsement of his becoming Thailand's 25th premier. The royal command was delivered by House Speaker Yongyuth Tiyapairat at Samak's Bangkok residence.

Samak quickly defended his, as well as ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's (TRT Banned #1), loyalty to the monarchy in his brief speech and vowed to move the country forward.

Yongyuth, a key member of the People Power Party, also uttered his loyalty to the monarchy in the first few lines of his speech after his formal appointment as House Speaker.

Samak is expected to concurrently serve as defence minister in the new Cabinet line-up. Military reshuffles in April and October will hold the key to the battle for power between the People Power Party and the remnants of the military, who staged the coup in September 2006.

When Samak took over as head of People Power, he declared he was a nominee of Thaksin, who is living in exile. Since then he has not shown any inclination to erase this perception.

Somchai Wongsawat, a brother-in-law of Thaksin, has emerged as a key nominee in the Cabinet. He is expected to serve as Deputy Prime Minister and concurrently as Culture Minister. Somchai, a former permanent secretary of the Justice Ministry, is married to Yaowapha (TRT Banned #13), Thaksin's sister .

He has been responsible for filling the Cabinet posts by negotiating with the coalition partners from five other parties. He went to Rama Hospital, where Banharn Silapa-archa was receiving medical treatment, and invited him to join the coalition government. Somchai also brokered a deal with Vatana Asavahame, chairman of the Puea Pandin Party, eventually making it possible to bring the party into the coalition.

Surapong Suebwonglee, the secretary-general of the People Power Party, is expected to take over as Finance Minister. He is one of the innermost members of the Thaksin's circle.

Chalerm Yoobamrung is tipped to become Interior Minister.

Chai Chidchob, the father of Newin Chidchob (TRT Banned #6), is likely to serve as Minister of the Office of the Prime Minister. He has been a Buriram MP for several decades but has never served as a minister because his son played a more prominent role. However, Newin has been banned from politics for five years.

Apart from his own father, Newin is sending two of his confidants to serve in the Cabinet. Songsak Thongsri, a Buriram MP, is said to become Deputy Agriculture Minister, while Supol Fong-ngarm will likely serve as Deputy Interior Minister.

Santi Promphat, a party-list MP of the People Power Party, is said to take over as Transport and Communication Minister. He is close to Pongsak Ruktaphongpisal (TRT Banned #27), a confidant of Thaksin who used to run the ministry.

Wutthipong Chaisang, a younger brother of Chaturon Chaisang (TRT Banned #2), is tipped to become Science and Technology Minister. Chaturon, a former head of the defunct Thai Rak Thai, has also been banned from politics for five years.

Sudarat Keyuraphan (TRT Banned #3), a former executive of the Thai Rak Thai, is said to be sending her representative, Sutha Chansaeng, a Bangkok MP, to become Social Development and Human Security Minister.

Anongwan Thepsuthin, the wife of Somsak Thepsuthin (TRT Banned #18), also banned from politics and a key member of the Matchima Thipataya Party, is said to become Resources and Environment Minister. Meanwhile, Suwat Liptapanlop (TRT Banned #22), a key member of Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana, will have his wife, Poonpirom Liptapanlop, serve as Health Minister.

Noppadon Pattama and Jakrapob Penkair, who have devoted their services wholeheartedly to Thaksin, will be rewarded handsomely for their loyalty and dedication. Noppadon is expected to become Foreign Minister, while Chakrapob as a Minister of the Office of the Prime Minister will be in charge of government media.

Srimuang Charoensiri, a People Power party-list member from Zone 3, is expected to become Energy Minister. As a former chairman of the Senate Committee on Telecommunications, he was embroiled in a scandal to select members to serve on the National Telecommunication Commission (NTC). The Administrative Court ended up nullifying the list of nominees, leading to a process to pick new members.

Sompong Amornwiwat, who played a key role in bringing the Thai Rak Thai MPs under the People Power wing, looks set to become a Deputy Prime Minister.

Sukhum Nualsakul, a political-science professor from Ramkhamhaeng University, said most people expected the Cabinet would come from nominees of the former executives of the Thai Rak Thai, but they never expected it would be this obvious.

"If the nominees were of some quality, then we might say OK. But as it has turned out, they do not care about quality at all, or whether the candidates are suitable for the jobs," he said.

"This has destroyed credibility and trust even among those who want to believe the new government will aim to forge unity in the country. It looks like a payback for their service, or an attempt to recoup the investment from the election."

Trakul Meechai, a political scientist from Chulalongkorn University, said the potential Cabinet line-up showed that politicians do not care about the law at all.

"They are only interested in their own law. Although the law bars these politicians from getting involved in politics, in reality it can't do anything," he said.

"The Cabinet may turn out to be a rubber stamp. The ministers will simply serve as postmen or postwomen who bring the decisions of those working behind the scenes to inform the rubber-stamp Cabinet."

- The Nation

Edited January 30, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Nose is a 'sign' of the times

Viewers watching the parliamentary session on Channel 11 yesterday were left in little doubt as to how "signers" referred to prime minister-elected Samak Sundaravej - they touched their noses.

For Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, they moved their hands around their faces and raised their thumbs up.

Sign language interpreter Kanitha Rattanasint, 45, said the special signs were meant as a convenience for the deaf.

Names in sign language are indicated by facial characteristics and personalities of the person. They are sometimes presented using the Thai alphabet for the names.

But Samak is so famous among the deaf, they take the nose as meaning Samak as his most prominent facial feature is his proboscis. The deaf also think Abhisit has an attractive face, she said.

Half a raised thumb is for the Thai alphabet's "Or Ang", the first letter in Abhisit's name.

Interpreters need to ask the deaf how they refer to politicians, Kanitha said. Interpreters working at Parliament also work at the National Association of the Deaf (NADT), where they meet some of their audiences.

The hand raising with the thumb and index finger making an "L" shape pointing upwards means former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. *as in "Loser"?* The action also came from his poster during campaigning.

The raised front hair hairstyle means former prime minister Chuan Leekpai, she said.

Pojaman, who also has her front hair raised, had no sign name. She is referred to as Thaksin's wife.

Kanitha, who has been signing for 20 years said she and her team were the pioneers in interpreting parliamentary meetings six years ago. At that time Thaksin was the prime minister while Uthai Pimchaichon was the House Speaker.

Samak and Abhisit are well-known among the deaf for their name signs, she said.

Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh has a sign name for wearing glasses with a chubby face while former prime minister Banharn Silapa-archa is referred to as having a small build with "B" and "H" characters.

Yongyuth Tiyapairat is not so well-known to carry a sign. He is currently called House Speaker in sign language. It may take some time before they decide how to refer him, otherwise interpreters will have to spell out his name like those less known to the deaf, she said. *a suggestion perhaps?*

The difficult names this time are those of the new parties.

The Democrat sign is "Mother Earth squeezing her hair" just like the party's logo.

PPP is currently called "Por Por Chor (PPP)".

The team also includes Juthamas Suthonwattanacharoen, 35, and Kanya Sae-eung, 45. On days when meetings last for many hours, the association sends another interpreter to help. Generally they are kept very busy as there are only 30 professional interpreters nationwide.

Unlike interpreting for other events, Juthamas said the challenge of covering Parliament was that they had no way of knowing ahead what will be said. They have to follow political news to make sense when MPs talk or attack others using sarcasm, she said.

Interpreters do not have to translate everything but they are expected relay meaning and feeling, she said. Each interpreter needs to take a break every 20 minutes to rest up. Juthamas said people in their audience often send her SMS messages to express their appreciation for the service.

- The Nation

[ando]

Let us all congratulate Mr Samak at being endorsed by His Royal Highness to lead the country politically!

Congratulations Mr Samak.

[sriracha john]

I don't think he'll be getting any congratulations from this group...

Survivors of 1976 uneasy

Academics adopt wait-and-see attitude

Former student leaders and academics affected by the October 6, 1976, massacre feel uneasy about the appointment of Samak Sundaravej as the new prime minister.

In the mid-to-late 70s, Samak was a rightist conservative and an overt supporter of the violent suppression measures that led to the death of at least 41 left-wing students and activists in arguably the darkest chapter in modern Thai history.

In those days, Samak adhered to the idea that democracy led to chaos.

"I must be frank and say that Samak hasn't changed that much. What has changed is the situation," said Chulalongkorn University historian Suthachai Yimprasert, co-author of a fact-finding book on the 1976 incident and a former student activist. "Over the past year or so, there was a coup and Samak ended up standing against it. It's unbelievable."

The brutal crackdown in 1976 led to the lynching of left-leaning students and activists and eventually caused thousands to flee to the jungle to join the now-defunct Communist Party of Thailand.

However, despite his misgivings, Suthachai said he was willing to wait and see if Samak restores democracy or becomes a threat to it.

The academic, then a Thammasat University undergraduate student, fled into the jungles shortly after scores of his friends were killed. He suggested that Samak annul the junta-sponsored 2007 Constitution along with many of the laws passed by the outgoing Surayud regime.

"Samak's duty now is to revive democracy. It's impossible for me to say I trust him, but I hope he will remove all signs of the military junta."

Others like Vipa Daomanee, another former student activist turned academic, are convinced that Samak is bad news for democracy. She accused Samak of inciting violence and being responsible for the deaths in 1976.

"He won't change," Vipa said. "Sometimes the elite have problems amongst themselves. But they do not believe in equality for all."

Even more disillusioned by the latest political twist is Thammasat University historian Thanet Apornsuwan, who said he did not trust either side in the ongoing political struggle.

"[samak] didn't change. But the definition of 'democracy' is now extended to protect the interests of capitalist groups. Surely, Samak is defending this kind of democracy," Thanet said, adding that the military ought to realise that Samak was not against it.

"I don't feel anything [about Samak as the new premier]. After the September 19 coup, much of my belief in the democratic process was destroyed. We're being forced down a narrow path with no exit or choice," Thanet said. "I don't like any of the groups [both pro or anti-Thaksin] and so I don't know who to cry for."

- The Nation

[steveromagnino]

Samran, As someone who has generally respected your contributions a lot of assertions you make above are in my view very dubious.(The role you attribute to Chuan is just plain wrong, and the suggestion -see plethora of research reports- that the economy was in poor shape at the time of the coup equally off beam.)It's all a bit off topic but if you wish to debate economic history of last decade perhaps another thread?

Obviously we can ignore most of what the Economist has written as they seem unable to separate fact from fiction with regards to the Thai economy. For instance, in praising Thaksinomics (whatever that is, no one really knows other than freebies to poor) they have never really touched up the insider loans, Picnic Gas scandal, etc etc and insider trading for state asset sales such as PTT - we can clearly see they just didn't do enough investigation and are so pro democracy and Thaksin they could not really climb back from their previous stance.

Chuan set up a more deregulated market with the way opened up for foreign retailers to come in; corporate governance, financial masterplan, basic healthcare services, neutral but slow process to deal with NPLs and bank debt restructuring, a more stable hand at the BOT in float mode and as a result built foreign investor confidence and a surplus.

TRT would have us believe that they built strength in the rural economy (fluke of slightly higher commodity prices plus unsustainable giveaways), increased GDP (govt surplus squandering and tax reductions plus a drop in the exchange rate) plus an increase in the SET (funded by state owned enterprise selloffs at discount rates to themselves) and growth in the property sector (tax reduction, followed by flouting the laws re foreign ownership). The miracle of Thaksinomics was no more than an illusion; people spent with cheap credit and cheap fuel while govt did a few mega projects all with massive skims the likes of which were never seen before (airport, 30b healthcare for instance) funded by the previous government's fiscal responsbility.

State owned enterprise sales and TAMC sales at cut prices to TRT were par for the course - ask Prachai or Dr Arthit what they think of the management of their NPL companies that were not smart enough to distrust Chavalit and his mates when they said they would back the baht (TPI, Phayathai Hospital).

Give me one solid example of ANY sustainable competitive advantage in the Thai economy developed by TRT and not just a fluke of timing that was already underway. With a mandate to lead and his expertise (I admit he has expertise and is an astute business man) I would expect hundreds. Instead, I cannot think of one.

All I can think of are the airport, deisel subsidy, tax reduction on boat imports to help his mate Gulu Lalvani (I sail), handouts to himself and his mates especially in telco/banking/state owned assets sales/concessions and various hand outs to encourage the poor not to work and keep voting for him. I have too short a memory, please refresh me! Did those dutch newspapers minus an R actually do any good at all?

DEP has done a decent job in spite of TRT, not because of them. If I want to read pro TRT I can go to Wikipedia, for a laugh have a look at who does the editing; man oh man it is surely impossible to read anything positive about Chuan Leekpai and almost impossible to find balanced reporting on Herr Thaksin and PPP. What a pity that Thaksin has hired American PR companies to do his work for him, he could have generated work for probably 1000 PR people in Thailand if he was based here!

If nothing else, at least Samak will be good for a few laughs, he has a sense of humour. Thaksin....not so much.

Chalerm is good for a laugh too, while he isn't pistol whipping people, running his gambling dens (alledgedly) or looking after his kids. What a dream team, if only they could get the disgraced former governor of the TAT as well and the moron from Channel 9 who got himself fired...oh hold on they already have.

Who else to add in? PAGING KING POWER PAGING KING POWER, all has been forgiven, please come back and run the airport for us.

At least this time, we might see some telco deregulation, depending on how much Thaksin promised to the new foreign owners. Last time, well it isn't like a strong communications network is important in a global economy LOL.

I am more angry at the Dems than PPP, I know the PPP guys sadly through work to some degree; at least they stood for something; the Dems should have swept the election with a genuine new way, but they were blown away AGAIN by TRT marketing. Sadly, I think the reputation of being southerners (which TRT really nicely enflamed by painting the south of Thailand as a terrorist state) means the Dems will never succeed in Isaan - what is that expression - Pahk Stor - yeah, no chance.

Edited January 30, 2008 by steveromagnino

[samran]

steve, you are my hero.

I owe you a coffee.

[Artisi]

It is a certainty that we will live in interesting times for a year or so, the positive side is that it will give the expats a wealth of subject matter for Thaivisa for months to come.

[John K]

I just wanted to point out that this is a time everyone’s eyes are on Samak, but we need to be watching Thaksin too as what he is doing. He has been know to take advantages of diversions.

[traveller5000]

My position has been consitently the same. Thaksin was a crook and needed to be gotten rid of. I never liked him admittedly, even back to the Palang Dharma days.

That's a fair and valid opinion in itself. Where I start to place question marks is when people are so extremist in their hatred of a successful politician

sorry, I don't think it is correct in describing Thaksin as a "successful politician". Politicians are first and foremost leaders of the country and this Thaksin character led the country into a hole and a mess in more ways than one. "Failed politician" would be a better description.

[Tony121]

Does anyone know the odds in England for Man city to do the treble in the next three year's if so can you let me know please

[steveromagnino]

My position has been consitently the same. Thaksin was a crook and needed to be gotten rid of. I never liked him admittedly, even back to the Palang Dharma days.

That's a fair and valid opinion in itself. Where I start to place question marks is when people are so extremist in their hatred of a successful politician

sorry, I don't think it is correct in describing Thaksin as a "successful politician". Politicians are first and foremost leaders of the country and this Thaksin character led the country into a hole and a mess in more ways than one. "Failed politician" would be a better description.

I think to say successful as in voted into power would be fair enough. After all, we can fondly recall that by this definition, George Bush, Nixon, Hitler, Marcos and the truly wonderful Robert Mugabe were all chosen by their people and therefore can be happily remembered as successful politicians.

Perhaps it would be nicer had TRT remained in power, so we could have had a period of martial law and a Thaksin led coup. But then again, that would not impact on his success as a PM.

Judging as success with regards to personal wealth, only those enjoying a 300% increase in net worth such as the Shinawatra family in just 5 years can truly be described as successful.

[steveromagnino]

steve, you are my hero.

I owe you a coffee.

u do.

about 5pm sounds good. I can regale you with tales of how some politician's kids were able to gain access to public university programs, despite their poor grades, and thus depriving truly worthy students of places in Kaset and Chula.

But it is all on alledged basis of course. So it probably isn't true, after all, why would members of the teaching faculty alledgedly tell me about it unless they were frustrated at just how alledgedly stupid said two kids were?

Judge a father by his kids..... hmmm..... massive drug taker and cheater at university with failed company solely based on govt connections and depriving legit companies of previously signed contracts..... two others with no business acumen to speak of and well dodgy entry in govt universities.

But hold up, one did work for a day at McDs. So this family knows what it is to struggle.

Of course, as I know some people are a bit prone to litigation, I am not talking about the Shinawatras here though. Someone else completely.

Some call the head of the family Rectangle head, and he has a nickname of Tony Bennett in the UK apparently. But nonetheless, his kids are called Hickory, Dickory and Dtok, as in Dtok Tong. I think the son's company was called How Dumb Entertainment.

But I have a short mammory.

Edited January 30, 2008 by steveromagnino

[traveller5000]

My position has been consitently the same. Thaksin was a crook and needed to be gotten rid of. I never liked him admittedly, even back to the Palang Dharma days.

That's a fair and valid opinion in itself. Where I start to place question marks is when people are so extremist in their hatred of a successful politician

sorry, I don't think it is correct in describing Thaksin as a "successful politician". Politicians are first and foremost leaders of the country and this Thaksin character led the country into a hole and a mess in more ways than one. "Failed politician" would be a better description.

I think to say successful as in voted into power would be fair enough.

Getting voted into power is only an indicator of trust.

Getting voted into power is only a stepping stone to leading the country I would think, so it comes back to this.

[steveromagnino]

Getting voted into power is only an indicator of trust.

Getting voted into power is only a stepping stone to leading the country I would think, so it comes back to this.

Well in that case abject failure.

U don't like the idea of judging success from how much he personally was able to profit from his CEO PM stint then?

[Jai Dee]

Abhisit congratulates Samak as the new prime minister

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva on Wednesday contragulated Samak Sundaravej on his appointment as prime minister.

"I wish to extend my congratulations to Samak and supporters of the People Power Party as their party leader is now the prime minister," he said.

He urged the new prime minister to quickly restore the public confidence by lining up a credible Cabinet and spelling out clear policies.

He said Samak should prioritise public issues to tackle rather than devote his time to serve certain groups or individuals.

"Issues involving former prime minister Thaksin Shinwatra should be resolved via due process and the government should allow justice to run its course," he said.

Source: The Nation - 30 January 2008

[traveller5000]

U don't like the idea of judging success from how much he personally was able to profit from his CEO PM stint then?

Frozen assets aside, he was shamelessly successful in this department.

And so far i've not been convinced much will change with this "new" lineup of characters.

[ovenman]

Good for you! But if you have been accepted by 60 million people in this country, as one of them, maybe you should show them a little respect for their democratic rights!

I'm having trouble understanding how one Thai citizen's (Samran) personal dislike of an elected official somehow tramples on the democratic rights of his fellow Thais. Perhaps you would care to elaborate on this?

[samran]

Good for you! But if you have been accepted by 60 million people in this country, as one of them, maybe you should show them a little respect for their democratic rights!

I'm having trouble understanding how one Thai citizen's (Samran) personal dislike of an elected official somehow tramples on the democratic rights of his fellow Thais. Perhaps you would care to elaborate on this?

cause I have an over inflated opinion of my opinion, I should get 63 million extra 'special' votes in any election. A bit like (the US) democrat super delegate votes to choose a nominee, or the ALP exective vote in Australia. Of course, I am always right, and thus, should get my way.

Regarless of this, I and a few others have said that we are dissapointed with the democrats. They could have run a much better race, and they didn't. They are chardonnay politicians, love being in politics, but a bit to scared to get their hands dirty to get into power (or perhaps scared of power itself).

[sriracha john]

My position has been consitently the same. Thaksin was a crook and needed to be gotten rid of. I never liked him admittedly, even back to the Palang Dharma days.

That's a fair and valid opinion in itself. Where I start to place question marks is when people are so extremist in their hatred of a successful politician

sorry, I don't think it is correct in describing Thaksin as a "successful politician". Politicians are first and foremost leaders of the country and this Thaksin character led the country into a hole and a mess in more ways than one. "Failed politician" would be a better description.

Thank you for posting that, traveller.

Always nice to hear an informed opinion.

[Lilawadee]

My position has been consitently the same. Thaksin was a crook and needed to be gotten rid of. I never liked him admittedly, even back to the Palang Dharma days.

That's a fair and valid opinion in itself. Where I start to place question marks is when people are so extremist in their hatred of a successful politician

sorry, I don't think it is correct in describing Thaksin as a 'successful politician'. Politicians are first and foremost leaders of the country and this Thaksin character led the country into a hole and a mess in more ways than one. 'Failed politician' would be a better description.

Which other Thai politicians or parties do you know of that managed to win an absolute majority?

Which other Thai politicians or parties do you know of that managed to get re-elected?

Which other Thai politicians or parties do you know of that managed to get re-elected AGAIN?

That, to me, is a quantifiable measure of success for any politician anywhere. The mess Thailand is in is entirely the making of the ruling elite / military, in any case you can't blame an elected politician for being ousted at gun point. Next you'll be calling Salvador Allende a failed politician for getting ousted/killed in a coup. (Could go on with examples but then people will be blaming me for comparing Thaksin to elected-but-overthrown politicians in other countries. ( like, call Nelson Mandela failed as a leader because he got himself locked up. ) Anyway, such a list would get the sparks flying off keyboards across the nation so I'll leave with that I consider election results the primary measure of success; What you added is opinion.

Edited January 30, 2008 by Lilawadee

[jumnien]

My position has been consitently the same. Thaksin was a crook and needed to be gotten rid of. I never liked him admittedly, even back to the Palang Dharma days.

That's a fair and valid opinion in itself. Where I start to place question marks is when people are so extremist in their hatred of a successful politician

sorry, I don't think it is correct in describing Thaksin as a "successful politician". Politicians are first and foremost leaders of the country and this Thaksin character led the country into a hole and a mess in more ways than one. "Failed politician" would be a better description.

Thank you for posting that, traveller.

Always nice to hear an informed opinion.

I wouldn't describe Thaksin as a successful spirtual leader, moral leader, social architect, agent for change or words along these lines. I would describe him as a successful politician in context, however. Politics is a nasty game and he has survived the longest of any elected leader in modern Thai history. Whether one likes him or not is a different story. Though some would find General Sonthi a fantastic human being that tried his hardest to help the Thai people, I would definitely not describe him as a successful politician.

[steveromagnino]

The mess Thailand is in is entirely the making of the ruling elite / military, in any case you can't blame an elected politician for being ousted at gun point.

Are you referring to the ruling elite or the military's direct involvement in the poor state of country competitiveness, the mess in the south, the bombs going off in New year 2007, the dying economy as a result of not building any SCAs for the last 5 years, the lack of deregulation and transparency in the public sector, the massive amount of graft over the last 5-6 years in every single business touched by TRT, the side effects of global economic problems, the ridiculous FTAs Thailand is now on the hook for, the flaunting of real laws by a business family to avoid tax and illegally sell 96% of a Thai company to foreigners or perhaps something as small as graft in the film festivals?

Man, those coup leaders sure were busy to have managed to have done all of that in 1 year 3 months.... and here was dumb on me thinking that the skim the TRT guys were taking might have had a few repucussions for the future of Thailand....guess we can just blame the coup leaders for all that 555555555555555555555555

Let's remember that the mess of the last 18 months of TRT governance was LONGER than the mess we've been in with the coup.

Just remember... the airport was supposed to be the crowning glory of TRT to ensure Thaksin would be the hero of the working classes. HAVE A LOOK AT THE F&*K UP HE HAS CREATED - if it wasn't for the hard efforts of a bunch of people, both pro and anti TRT we would be even worse off than we are now. But once it is fixed, mark my words he will be the first to claim all the credit.

As an aside, do you/have you actually have any personal dealings with TRT/PPP politicians????????????????

[soundman]

Which other Thai politicians or parties do you know of that managed to win an absolute majority?

Which other Thai politicians or parties do you know of that managed to get re-elected?

Which other Thai politicians or parties do you know of that managed to get re-elected AGAIN?

That, to me, is a quantifiable measure of success for any politician anywhere.

The answer to all your statements is they/he didn't win anything. They/he bought all victories with proceeds of currupt money making schemes at the expense of all the poor people of Thailand.

[younghusband]

Samran, As someone who has generally respected your contributions a lot of assertions you make above are in my view very dubious.(The role you attribute to Chuan is just plain wrong, and the suggestion -see plethora of research reports- that the economy was in poor shape at the time of the coup equally off beam.)It's all a bit off topic but if you wish to debate economic history of last decade perhaps another thread?

Obviously we can ignore most of what the Economist has written as they seem unable to separate fact from fiction with regards to the Thai economy. For instance, in praising Thaksinomics (whatever that is, no one really knows other than freebies to poor) they have never really touched up the insider loans, Picnic Gas scandal, etc etc and insider trading for state asset sales such as PTT - we can clearly see they just didn't do enough investigation and are so pro democracy and Thaksin they could not really climb back from their previous stance.

Chuan set up a more deregulated market with the way opened up for foreign retailers to come in; corporate governance, financial masterplan, basic healthcare services, neutral but slow process to deal with NPLs and bank debt restructuring, a more stable hand at the BOT in float mode and as a result built foreign investor confidence and a surplus.

TRT would have us believe that they built strength in the rural economy (fluke of slightly higher commodity prices plus unsustainable giveaways), increased GDP (govt surplus squandering and tax reductions plus a drop in the exchange rate) plus an increase in the SET (funded by state owned enterprise selloffs at discount rates to themselves) and growth in the property sector (tax reduction, followed by flouting the laws re foreign ownership). The miracle of Thaksinomics was no more than an illusion; people spent with cheap credit and cheap fuel while govt did a few mega projects all with massive skims the likes of which were never seen before (airport, 30b healthcare for instance) funded by the previous government's fiscal responsbility.

State owned enterprise sales and TAMC sales at cut prices to TRT were par for the course - ask Prachai or Dr Arthit what they think of the management of their NPL companies that were not smart enough to distrust Chavalit and his mates when they said they would back the baht (TPI, Phayathai Hospital).

Give me one solid example of ANY sustainable competitive advantage in the Thai economy developed by TRT and not just a fluke of timing that was already underway. With a mandate to lead and his expertise (I admit he has expertise and is an astute business man) I would expect hundreds. Instead, I cannot think of one.

All I can think of are the airport, deisel subsidy, tax reduction on boat imports to help his mate Gulu Lalvani (I sail), handouts to himself and his mates especially in telco/banking/state owned assets sales/concessions and various hand outs to encourage the poor not to work and keep voting for him. I have too short a memory, please refresh me! Did those dutch newspapers minus an R actually do any good at all?

DEP has done a decent job in spite of TRT, not because of them. If I want to read pro TRT I can go to Wikipedia, for a laugh have a look at who does the editing; man oh man it is surely impossible to read anything positive about Chuan Leekpai and almost impossible to find balanced reporting on Herr Thaksin and PPP. What a pity that Thaksin has hired American PR companies to do his work for him, he could have generated work for probably 1000 PR people in Thailand if he was based here!

If nothing else, at least Samak will be good for a few laughs, he has a sense of humour. Thaksin....not so much.

Chalerm is good for a laugh too, while he isn't pistol whipping people, running his gambling dens (alledgedly) or looking after his kids. What a dream team, if only they could get the disgraced former governor of the TAT as well and the moron from Channel 9 who got himself fired...oh hold on they already have.

Who else to add in? PAGING KING POWER PAGING KING POWER, all has been forgiven, please come back and run the airport for us.

At least this time, we might see some telco deregulation, depending on how much Thaksin promised to the new foreign owners. Last time, well it isn't like a strong communications network is important in a global economy LOL.

I am more angry at the Dems than PPP, I know the PPP guys sadly through work to some degree; at least they stood for something; the Dems should have swept the election with a genuine new way, but they were blown away AGAIN by TRT marketing. Sadly, I think the reputation of being southerners (which TRT really nicely enflamed by painting the south of Thailand as a terrorist state) means the Dems will never succeed in Isaan - what is that expression - Pahk Stor - yeah, no chance.

Some fair points in an entertaining though sometimes incoherent ramble.In terms of my points to Samran, you have put a false gloss on Chuan's economic management record which was deplorable.It's probably worth pointing out that despite being a decent and honest man he was quite unable to handle the very real challenges of the economic crisis.The opening up of the retail sector that you mention to foreigners was the result of domestic players financial collapse, not in any way some kind of strategic decision.

My other point was that the economy inherited by the junta was in relatively good shape.I tend to agree with you about the lack of sustainable competitive advantage, not just from the TRT government but from any Thai administration.The argument about what is attributable to a particular government and what to the macro environment is an old one and not specific to Thailand.Suffice it to say that it is quite clear that Thaksin's "populist" measures did not have an adverse effect on the wider economy.

I won't comment on your other musings such as the Thaksinite manipulation of Wikipedia.Save that for your coffee shop chat with Samran

I note your broadside at the Economist which I am afraid betrays some misunderstanding of what the Economist has actually said about Thailand in the last few years.The reason why people in Thailand who loathe Thaksin also rant about the Economist's "bias" (actually very much the same line as most international journals of record) is because it prints the hard and unpleasant facts about the selfishness of the Bangkok elite and its gormless middle class hangers on, the latter category an admittedly rapidly declining one.In some instances the Economist, which I happen to know has excellent sources in Thailand, covers stories which cannot be properly dealt with here -e.g the absurd self-sufficiency economy theory, hypocritical,self serving and intellectually threadbare.