OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

Imagine the loss of face for China.

Hafta be all or none.

Teach 'em.

Inter country trade will win out.

Our PM, Helen Mugabe Clark, is all wishy washy, wants her FTA deal to go thru.

OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

Imagine the loss of face for China.

Hafta be all or none.

Teach 'em.

Inter country trade will win out.

Our PM, Helen Mugabe Clark, is all wishy washy, wants her FTA deal to go thru.

You mean for a boycott to work every country would have to pull out?

OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

Imagine the loss of face for China.

Hafta be all or none.

Teach 'em.

Inter country trade will win out.

Our PM, Helen Mugabe Clark, is all wishy washy, wants her FTA deal to go thru.

You mean for a boycott to work every country would have to pull out?

Yeah, 'fraid so. The loss of face would be enormous but let's face it, it's not going to happen. Trade-wise, China is everyone's best mate at the mo, the big kid in the playground. No, I think the best we can hope for (if the subject is still in the public eye then) is perhaps a few Tibetan flags being held aloft on the podium or perhaps athletes wearing armbands in Tibetan colours. The governments won't fret too much over individuals doing their protesting for them...

OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

Imagine the loss of face for China.

Hafta be all or none.

Teach 'em.

Inter country trade will win out.

Our PM, Helen Mugabe Clark, is all wishy washy, wants her FTA deal to go thru.

You mean for a boycott to work every country would have to pull out?

Yeah, 'fraid so. The loss of face would be enormous but let's face it, it's not going to happen. Trade-wise, China is everyone's best mate at the mo, the big kid in the playground. No, I think the best we can hope for (if the subject is still in the public eye then) is perhaps a few Tibetan flags being held aloft on the podium or perhaps athletes wearing armbands in Tibetan colours. The governments won't fret too much over individuals doing their protesting for them...

In that I think you might be right. I also wonder if anyone should do anything anyway. Regardless what people think Tibet is controlled by the CCP and that makes all this an internal problem for them. How much should other countries get involved with internal problems of other states?

Hmm, well yeah. But so was Tianenmen Square but looked at the ripples that caused. Look what Mugabe has done and is doing to Zimbabwe; another internal affair. Of course, if there were oil in Zimbabwe, it might be a different matter...

Hmm, well yeah. But so was Tianenmen Square but looked at the ripples that caused. Look what Mugabe has done and is doing to Zimbabwe; another internal affair. Of course, if there were oil in Zimbabwe, it might be a different matter...

Not forgetting Burma and Sudan, another two vicious regimes supported by....................?

Hmmm, notice a common denominator here?

Hmm, well yeah. But so was Tianenmen Square but looked at the ripples that caused. Look what Mugabe has done and is doing to Zimbabwe; another internal affair. Of course, if there were oil in Zimbabwe, it might be a different matter...

If there were oil in Zimbabwe we'd be in there showing our concern for their freedom and democracy! No oil? <deleted> 'em!

OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

Frankly I'm fed up about this.

It's all over the news, all over the web, all over the networking sites likes BaseFook and stuff, ...

Why is everybody so insitent about politicising the Games?!

<deleted> let 'em have the games, and let 'em have successful Games.

it may even encourage China to change a few things.

If everybody treats 'em like outcasts, they'll only get worse.

The Olympic Committee decided on holding the Games there AGES AGO. That's when any protests should've been made.

The games should have as little to do with Politics as is possible.

OKay, after all the violence that is still going on and considering the CCP's reponse to the riots, should the games continue? Should the Beijing games be boycotted?

Frankly I'm fed up about this.

It's all over the news, all over the web, all over the networking sites likes BaseFook and stuff, ...

Why is everybody so insitent about politicising the Games?!

<deleted> let 'em have the games, and let 'em have successful Games.

it may even encourage China to change a few things.

If everybody treats 'em like outcasts, they'll only get worse.

Could not agree more. The committee knew who and what China stood for, when they were appointed. You change a regime like China's by having a successful games and showing them how human's can inter-act without crackdowns and violence. Boycott and they withdraw further into their shell. Do not think for one moment any of our Western leaders will turn their back one one billion and counting consumers. Trade boycotts ?.............. yeah right,

The Olympic Committee decided on holding the Games there AGES AGO. That's when any protests should've been made.

The games should have as little to do with Politics as is possible.

Trade boycotts are pointless, yes. Until companies by law are holden to moral codes this will always be pointless. I still think the Chinese should have the games, I believe this will be a great chance for soft power and economic influence to work on the CCP as well as the Chinese people.

However, as a crazy American I can't help but think another reason to allow the games to go without issue is that if America were having issues I wouldn't want outside powers showing up to determine what happens. Is that wrong of me?

No, Bops, it's entirely right of you.

Unfortunately, in recent years more than ever, it is your country's gov't that seem to decide what goes on everywhere else, in certain cases and to some extent.

I've mentioned this before on this forum, but I recall when I lived in Thailand, the news that America (this was shortly following dexclaration of war against the Taliban/afghanistan) USA told Thailand/Toxin, that if he didn't provide "support" (the whole "whit us/against us" <deleted>) than Bush Regime would allow US farmers to farm Jasmine rice. which very simply put, would destroy the Thai Economy. At that time Thailand had a World Bank and U.N. Sanction/permission to be the sole manufacturer.exporter of this particular strain.

Nonetheless, threats were made, and Thailand thereafter provided bases and support infrastructure.

But that's already drifting off on a whole 'nother tangent.

Point is, nobody should have to tell others what to do (nations). China will fare better on the int'l level AND national/local level if the Games go well

Another majjor point of contention I personally have is the need for people from all walks of life who don't ever actually DO anything to change anything, bitching and turning the games into a political farce.

<deleted>. It's the olympic <deleted>' games. Personally I'm no sportsman, nor much of a fan, but the O.G. are an institution to be proud of. Let's respect it.

Like we don't have enough invasive politics in our lives already.

Like we don't have enough invasive politics in our lives already.

Amen to that. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in a Nazi state. Do this, don't do that, eat this, don't eat that, don't smoke that, you're drinking too much, don't drive that car. <deleted> indeed!

Politics and Sport in general and the Olympics in particular have been inextricably linked for as long as I can remember:

Tommy Smith and the Black Power salute, Mexico '68, the Palestinians and the Israeli massacre, Munich '72, Montreal '76 and the Black African Boycott, Moscow ''80 and the western Boycott, '84 and the inevitable Soviet Union Boycott and then a period of stabilization.

But can anyone tell me what these demonstrations achieved?

As has already been stated, a trade boycott against the Nation that is everybody's Friend, if not exactly Mates, what would it achieve?

Moss

Good post Moss. It would acheive nothing. Except maybe to fill a page in our history books...

Well, I am glad I am not the only one making sense. I keep hearing all the other jive and I know the violence sucks,but what do people really think they will accomplish by not buying Chinese products and the like? Get gun and go to Tibet then, or a nice poster, but sitting at home screaming Free Tibet to impress others into thinking you are socially aware and cool and stuff is not helping anyone.

After talking about Black Power, Black September, Boycotts Black, Star Spangled and Red, I had forgotten about the next unifying, almost unheard of Act of '88!

The Fact that South and North Korea walked through their stadiums together in the Olympics of that year, unprecedented in a country torn apart and I believe still officially at war, no peace accord was ever signed.

Although on that last part, it was for dramatic effect, I think I could be wrong.

So Sport can lead the field in Diplomatic Relations as well as bringing it to its knees.

Moss

Yeah, sport and politics, is it possible to separate them?!?

I say let 'em go. On with the show. Let the marathon runners fall over dead from CO poisoning. Let the reporters talk about Tibet (right .. ). Arrest a few reporters for asking too many questions. Let the film crews get out and show the world this utopia of communist bliss. The more pics the better.

Let's be honest...the Tibet protest was premeditated with the goal of putting outside pressure on CCP to loosen the yoke on the Tibetans. I haven't heard of any recent acts of barbarism on the part of the Chinese in Tibet that would prompt any riots. So obviously the goal was to poke the CCP in the eye just prior to the run-up to the Olympics and to hopefully generate a boycott of the Games. That's pretty cynical in my view. Play the Games. If athletes want to protest, that's their option. But for countries to boycott the Games over something that has been going on in Tibet for a long time, I find that pretty weak. Right now I'm much more pissed off about what is going on in Myannmar and Darfur. Yet I don't see the rest of the "civililized" world doing much more than mouthing the same old impotent protests.

From the BBC:-

Sarkozy threat to Olympic opening

French President Nicolas Sarkozy says he has not ruled out boycotting the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games in China over the situation in Tibet.

His aides said France was still opposed to a full boycott but that it might pull out of the opening ceremony in Beijing on 8 August.

The recent unrest in Tibet has sparked worldwide concern.

Olympics chief Jacques Rogge said last week he was "heartened" that no major government had backed a boycott.

On Tuesday, the White House said US President George W Bush still planned to attend the opening of the Games, while the UK said Prime Minister Gordon Brown would still be going to the closing ceremony.

When asked about a possible boycott on a visit to the south-western Pyrenees region, Mr Sarkozy said: "All options are open and I appeal to the Chinese leaders' sense of responsibility."

He added: "I want a dialogue to start and I will step up my response according to the response given by the Chinese authorities."

France's state TV network said it might boycott coverage of the Games if Beijing censored protests during the event.

In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said: "Our position remains that we believe that the purpose of the Olympics is to let international athletes come together and showcase their talents."

France and other Western nations have urged Beijing to enter into a dialogue with the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.

China says 19 people were killed by rioters and accuses the Dalai Lama of inciting the violence.

The Tibetan government-in-exile says at least 130 people have died in a crackdown by Chinese troops and deny any role in the protests.

Robert Menard, the director of the media rights group Reporters Without Borders, said he had asked Mr Sarkozy for a meeting where he will press for a boycott of the opening ceremony, though not a boycott of sports events.

On Monday, pro-Tibetan activists disrupted the Olympic torch lighting ceremony in Greece.

Campaigners broke through police lines and unfurled a Tibetan flag before being dragged away.

In his speech during the ceremony, Mr Rogge said the Olympic torch relay and the Games should take place in a peaceful environment.

On Tuesday, the Chinese foreign ministry said any attempt to disrupt the torch relay for the Olympic Games was shameful.

Let's be honest...the Tibet protest was premeditated with the goal of putting outside pressure on CCP to loosen the yoke on the Tibetans. I haven't heard of any recent acts of barbarism on the part of the Chinese in Tibet that would prompt any riots. So obviously the goal was to poke the CCP in the eye just prior to the run-up to the Olympics and to hopefully generate a boycott of the Games. That's pretty cynical in my view. Play the Games. If athletes want to protest, that's their option. But for countries to boycott the Games over something that has been going on in Tibet for a long time, I find that pretty weak. Right now I'm much more pissed off about what is going on in Myannmar and Darfur. Yet I don't see the rest of the "civililized" world doing much more than mouthing the same old impotent protests.

Burma and Dafur don't have a Dalai Lama giving Hollywood's empty souls blessings.

Considering the economic power that China has they could probably roll tanks thru Tibet and string up women and children in the streets and the west would still not do anything (well maybe not the children). Yes, there was more of a reaction from the west do to Tiananmen square but the growth in economic ties has been exponential since that time and even a duplicate Tiananmen incident would certainly not garner the same level of response from the west today as it did then.

It will be interesting to see how the Chinese will react should any athlete attempt a very visible personal display of support for Tibet - say to bring a small Tibet flag with them on to the medal podium, or to drape themselves in both their home country flag and a Tibet flag as the run around the stadium to celebrate winning say the 400m event.

I also have a hard time with the censorship the IOC has allowed China to push on those wanting to cover the games, setting guidelines on where they can point their cameras and such, as well as most likely banning any live shots from Tiananmen Square. This level of censorship is a bit extreme considering technically the Chinese constitution (article 35) states that citizens have the “freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession, and of demonstration”. IMHO the IOC should have made freedom from censorship during the games part of the package in awarding the games to China.

As for boycotts and their effect – it seems that Steven Spielberg’s efforts might pay some dividends as China has at least appointed a “special envoy” to Darfur due to his very public boycott of the games.