At Least 78 Die After Thailand Riot

[Sangsom]

Besides the fact that the government might have had a right to detain certain people in this case - I can't judge that - it is a fact that after they detain someone they are 100% responsible for their well being after that. No one is guilty unless convicted, so far they were just suspects. Or does this work different in Thailand?

In this case the authorities have grossly neglected their duty to protect their detaineees from any harm and so this is in my opinion a clear case of (may be unwillingly) manslaughter, punishable by law in most countries, also in Thailand I guess.

[guran]

A southern Thai Muslim separatist group dormant since the 1980s said on Wednesday insurgents would take their fight to Bangkok to avenge the deaths of 78 Muslims in army custody in the deep south.

"Their capital will be burned down in the same way the Pattani capital has been burned," the Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO) said in a statement posted on its Web site.

The group, which is not thought to have an armed wing, was involved in a violent campaign in the 1970s and 1980s for an independent Muslim Kingdom of Pattani between southern Thailand and northern Malaysia.

"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights, the property they have robbed from us will be totally destroyed and their lives will face consequences for the sins they have committed," the group said.

"Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water. Our weapon is fire and oil, fire and oil, fire and oil."

[catmac]

Thanks Guran, that sums it up so simply.

Islamic extremists throughout the world don't want anything short of the total destruction of anyone who doesn't share their fanatical beliefs.

Give them an inch, and they will take a mile! We should all back the Thai people in their attempt to stop this evil movement.

[george]

South under control, says Thaksin

BANGKOK: -- The situation in Thailand’s southern-most provinces is under control after a recent unrest in which 84 people died, according to Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The government plans to speed up the investigation into the unrest, the prime minister told reporters.

“From now on, the state will establish a full system of law and order in the southern areas. And I will directly oversee the operation,” he said.

Mr. Thaksin said he did not believe the incident was a set back for the government’s attempt to solve the unrest in the South.

With the command centre for peace in the southern border region, led by Gen. Sirichai Thanyasiri, now active, the local authorities should be able to

manage the unrest.

A curfew has also been imposed in eight districts in Narathiwat province until the situation returns to normal, he said.

The latest unrest was similar to the one taking place in the Krue Se Mosque in late April, said the Thai leader.

The government plans to step up long-term measures to help solve some of the deep-rooted factors which have given rise to the violent unrest, including poverty, unemployment, inadequate education and the distortion of Muslim beliefs.

In a report to the cabinet on Tuesday, investigators said the incident was the result an anti-government network stirring up the villagers, sewing hatred

against the government and encouraging violent action against government officials.

The death toll in Monday’s incident is currently 84.

The government forensic expert, Khun Ying Pornthip Rojanasunan, said 78 of the dead had suffocated, while six others died in a clash with the local police and security forces at the Tak Bai Police Station.

Over 1,000 local people surrounded the police station and demanded the release of six arrested suspects, accused of stealing guns.

The police station was besieged. Chaos erupted when the police and soldiers fired into the air after the demonstrators surged into the jail.

They were repelled by water hoses from a fire engine.

The clash between the mob and local officers resulted in dozens of casualties --six dead and more than 40 injured, including 14 officers.

--TNA 2004-10-27

[silk]

They're not going to have their own country.....

Why not let them? Will Malaysia take them? What's the cost/benefit of moving the Thai/Malay border a little further north? Just a thought...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have been living in Malaysia. They used to spend their "weekends" in Thailand ,just acorss the border. Where would they go then if the border would be moved just a little further north? They would have a long way and would not be happy wth this. Just a thought from my side

[toastwars]

Iget sick of hearing that the thai's dont like muslims, don't like esan people, don't loke the hmong or this group or the other. Who are these thai who seem to dislike every other thai? Is it as I suspect the Bangkokians who are so wrapped up in money love that they would sell their own kids for a couple of dollars and seem to forget they are in thailand and not in some idealistic western country where the streets should be paved with gold. The thais don't have any respect for anything including themselves.

[ronz28]

How do you stop a mob with selfish and unreasonable demands threatening to do harm to you and other peace loving people? Those trouble makers must face reality and get along like everyone else or face the consequences necessary to protect the rest of the peace loving people. If they can't control themselves they should move to a country that has whatever it is that they want and not try to force everyone else to change since that's not going to happen. I think the Thais are more than reasonable with those trouble makers. Those doing this should work to live their lives the way they want in this free country and quit blaming the government for their own failure to work. If not, the government should do what is must to protect everyone else including putting the attackers in jail and stopping any riots with whatever it takes.

[guran]

If they can't control themselves they should move to a country that has whatever it is that they want and not try to force everyone else to change since that's not going to happen. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I beleive that they had what they wanted in their country before it was overrun by thailand.

[toastwars]

when a group is faced with discrimination on a daily basis this breeds insurgence, and don't make me laugh by telling me they should go to the police or government if you have no cash you won't get nothing in thailand

[katyusha]

By the way, a typically idiotic and hateful post from katyusha (errr, I mean 'rod-kalashnikov').

You're a very stupid man JamJam.

[katyusha]

A southern Thai Muslim separatist group dormant since the 1980s said on Wednesday insurgents would take their fight to Bangkok to avenge the deaths of 78 Muslims in army custody in the deep south.

"Their capital will be burned down in the same way the Pattani capital has been burned," the Pattani United Liberation Organisation (PULO) said in a statement posted on its Web site.

The group, which is not thought to have an armed wing, was involved in a violent campaign in the 1970s and 1980s for an independent Muslim Kingdom of Pattani between southern Thailand and northern Malaysia.

"We pledge before Allah that from now on, the infidel will suffer sleepless nights, the property they have robbed from us will be totally destroyed and their lives will face consequences for the sins they have committed," the group said.

"Their blood will be shed on the soil and flow into water. Our weapon is fire and oil, fire and oil, fire and oil."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The most expedient solution is to round up PULO members and execute them all for sedition.

[valleyman]

In the past, the Thai military/police have not displayed "gentle" behaviour in dealing with riots, disturbances etc.. This incident was no exception. On the the other hand, taken in the context of the terrorist acts being perpetrated by radical Islamists in various parts of the world, there could, or might, be outside forces at work here. Terrorism is like cancer, it spreads and infects silently before striking. One has to wonder whether the Thai authorities have good intelligence in the south. There is a lesson to be learned from the Iraqi war here which no doubt has the attention of those dissenting elements in the south. Winning the hearts and minds of those people requires innovative diplomacy along with coordination with the Malaysian government who are keenly interested in developments.

[lemon]

a v unfortunate event for all concerned - just hope that lessons have been learned by all ....

[Guest fj2003]

it is very interesting how reports of the regime are going around the world

the german tv shows how hard the army and police was treaating the people of the riot

the comment of the german journalist pointed strait on the aggressive way of the thai milize the uniformed mens didn't even stop their action in front of cameras and forced the journalist to leave the scene

some newspaper talk about that the military of thailand is out of control of the parlament

international internal voices are talking about that the thai army forced some journalist to leave the country

how is the way of democratic politic in thailand

[QUOTE]

Taskin has a very varied career, he was a policeman that stitched up an American for ten million dollars worth of telecommunication equipment, he then had the American arrested and thrown out of the country, the American then took it to court and 12 years later while Taskin was PM he was aquited.

Yep he got away with that one.

Then he decided to irradicate drugs in Thailand, and authorised the street executions of several thousand supposedly drug dealers.

Yep he got away with that one.

Now his military of whom he was commanding at the time have caused the deaths of nearly 100 people.

Yep he will get away with that one as well.

See a familiar thread about his life? he has got away with the murder of thousands, will he change? I doubt it, trouble is, is what is next on his agender? Its the Thai love Thai party, not the welcome farangs party.

[jkitiyakara]

I am hesitant to add my opinions to what has already been said. ( I am 74, female, and within 3 weeks of retiring to Songkhla, with my ill husband.) My neighbor rushed over in great agitation with the news of the deaths of the protesters while under custody, but I am not sure how to react, nor do I think we can judge without all the (true) facts. First of all, can anyone give a rundown of the crimes attributed to Muslim separatists in the past several years? Is it true that Buddhist monks and children have been targeted, and can these be enumerated for some of us? Do Muslims have their own schools? Has any positive aid been given by the government to alleviate unemployment and poverty? Has any dialogue been tried with PULO or other groups concerned with the plight of all people in the southern provinces. Has anybody interviewed any Muslims in the area? Were any Muslim doctors in the team which examined the victims? I had hoped that in some small way I could help by employing several persons to help manage my sick husband; now I wonder if I should be looking for Malays, rather than Thais, just because their situation seems more serious.For heaven's sake, what is happening in the world that people of good will cannot work things out and get along?

[thaiwing]

Curfew again....great

High world oil prices now reduce the production of synthetic rubber, and a curfew also imposed in south muslim locations......should increase the price for plantation owners outside south - good news for them.

If they (2000 muslim youths) want to play with the thai security forces....silly boys...the guns were nicked. They should have allowed the legal system to close this mess for the men detained, not form a 2000 strong killing posse for the sake of religion. They should learn from it next time they try to steal weapons.

[Ming~Ming]

If these people took their demonstration too far, they should have been arrested. That goes without saying, but transporting these people in such conditions that over 80 of them died of suffocation is unbelievable. I thought this sort of behaviour stopped with the capture of Sadam Hussein. Toxin should be tried for genocide. He is a maniac.....

[bodypaul]

Sangsom said:

Besides the fact that the government might have had a right to detain certain people in this case - I can't judge that - it is a fact that after they detain someone they are 100% responsible for their well being after that. No one is guilty unless convicted, so far they were just suspects. Or does this work different in Thailand

So what rules and how many guilty people have had their heads sawn off for Al Jussiera TV recently? Do the Muslim terrorists give a sh1t about anyone or thing other than their cause?

[Nam Kao]

78 less terrorists in the world

Why complain?

[Crushdepth]

I'm utterly disgusted. And that insulting crap that they died because they were weak from fasting for Ramadan. ###### off.

Disgusted.

[stroll]

  However I dont think the few extremists in the south would dare bomb any tourists areas- simply Thaskin would crush them. Ask the 100 or so in the Mosque last April.. woops I forgot their not around to answer you anymore. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How would you decide who to "crush" if you didn't know who planted any bombs?

The answers I suggest lies in looking at how the 'war on drugs' has been conducted, and in considering some quotes from posters here, who seem to know what the root of the problem is and how to deal with it:

So what rules and how many guilty people have had their heads sawn off for Al Jussiera TV recently? Do the Muslim terrorists give a sh1t about anyone or thing other than their cause?

The most expedient solution is to round up PULO members and execute them all for sedition.

Brutal treatment seems to be appropriate, it takes the fight out of them.

Good on them- these radical sorts need to be sorted. Give them an inch they take a mile.

who in the end are responsible for all the trouble in the world??

Islam again, what a surprize

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The chorus of voices is always the same, whenever the subject comes up.

I am glad there is legislation to be adhered to by police and government, and international organisations opposed to this sort of unqualified, hatedriven approach.

But I suspect there will be more Muslims worldwide dying because of "weakness due to religious fasting".

[JemJem]

Stroll...brilliant quoting......yes, it is always these bigots who love to vent out their hatred. I myself am sick of them. Of course they would now claim they are not bigots and write about the evils of being politically correct.

Well.....I will continue to counter them here in the forum with my words. I cannot stand bigots, whether they are anti-Muslim, anti-Jew, anti farang-woman, anti-gay, etc.

Regards,

Jem

[Johpa]

when a group is faced with discrimination on a daily basis this breeds insurgence, and don't make me laugh by telling me they should go to the police or government if you have no cash you won't get nothing in thailand

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The discrimination in Thailand is not a matter of being Muslim or Buddhist or Animist but it is most certainly a matter of not having money. The Muslims from the southern provinces face no more discrimination than does a poor Isaan, Karen, or Shan resident of the Kingdom. But like most other countries, there is a preference for encouraging ethnic divisions so as to lessen any chance of class consolidations.

[Richard W]

RDN- moderate muslims are ok by me, but these radicals a small minority give the whole religion a bad name. There lies the problem- the moderates out number the radicals, but don't criticize those that are causing all the grief.

Doubt they could be an independent state- prob claim Phuket to finance new independence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I'm curious as to where a line could be drawn across southern Thailand where those people below the line were 50% or more in favour of a separate state, and those people above the line were 50% or more in favour of staying as part of Thailand.

It reminds me of Northern Ireland, where all the "troubles" were caused by a small minority who wanted Northern Ireland to be part of Eire, but every time a vote was taken in Northern Ireland, something like 75% of people in Northern Ireland wanted to stay part of the UK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some 99% of the population in Patani is said to be muslim.

There seems to have been no immigration to Patani from other parts of Thailand.

As far as I can see there is nothing in common with the situation in Northern Ireland.In fact it reminds me more of the situation in East Timor or Aceh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know the statistics, but I think you'll find it's not totally clean. Tak Bai gives its name to a distinctive Southern Thai dialect, which is also spoken in Malaysia - see the Tak Bai Thais of Kelantan and Tak Bai subdialects. Another complication is the Moslem Thais whose mother tongue is Southern Thai - Ethnologue Report for Southern Thai

[udon]

Toxin obviously knows nothing about "ramadan".

The fasting is from dawn to sunset ...... not fasting for a month!

I think the mob would have had brekkie before dawn before decending on the cop shop.

Will someone tell the head waiter from P & O!

I know nothing

[guran]

I don't know the statistics, but I think you'll find it's not totally clean.  Tak Bai gives its name to a distinctive Southern Thai dialect, which is also spoken in Malaysia - see the Tak Bai Thais of Kelantan and Tak Bai subdialects.  Another complication is the Moslem Thais whose mother tongue is Southern Thai - Ethnologue Report for Southern Thai

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as I can see some 80% of the patani population are Malay speakers and some 95% are muslims.

( source http://www.wrmea.com/archives/july01/0107053.html )

Can't really compare their situation to the former Thai immigrants to Kelantan.

[guran]

interesting posting from earlier this year.

http://matrix.bangkokpost.co.th/forums/sen...Message_ID=2754

[sriracha john]

Update:

Thaksin admits mistakes over Muslim deaths

BANGKOK, Oct 27 (Reuters) - Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Wednesday security forces had made mistakes in their handling of a Muslim riot and voiced regret at the loss of nearly 80 lives in military custody.

"I can say that the government resorted to gentle measures and did not use force in suppressing the protesters. But mistakes happened during the transfer of the arrested people to trucks," Thaksin told parliament.

The comments were his first since officials said late on Tuesday that 78 male protesters had died of suffocation on Monday while being transported to a detention centre at a military barracks in Thailand's restive, predominantly Muslim south.

"I regret the loss of lives in a way that should not have happened, due to suffocation. I will order a committee to be set up to investigate the situation," Thaksin said.

--Reuters- 2004-10-27

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This backtracking and U-turning occurs when the international press are involved and speaks volumes about it's ability to influence Thailand. This happens time and time again whether it's bird flu or foreigners being murdered in Kanchanaburi. Seems like when news items are exclusively covered by Thai media, T is aggressive and intolerant... but bring in BBC, Reuters, et al.... and T is humble and apologetic. It really reveals how much T is desirous of playing on the world stage. In my opinion, the best of the Thai media is The Nation Group (Newspaper AND television).

[ThaiGeared_HighThaied]

The discrimination in Thailand is not a matter of being Muslim or Buddhist or Animist but it is most certainly a matter of not having money.  The Muslims from the southern provinces face no more discrimination than does a poor Isaan, Karen, or Shan resident of the Kingdom.  But like most other countries, there is a preference for encouraging ethnic divisions so as to lessen any chance of class consolidations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it is. Do you consider that Isaan like places can earn hundred Billions

of bhat every year from tourism industry, but muslim from south even gain

nothing from rich islands like pukhet, kau samui, krabi,....They can't engage

in it much, because they can't offer their sex.

Isaan people are much richer comparing to muslim thai, but isaan girls seems

more lazy in taking higher education? if tell me "No" , i will prove to you in

my next answer.

Btw, seems nobody liked my "ladyBoys" idea?

Thanks