Retirement Visa

[Jingthing]

JG, of course, it totally depends on your situation, bank account timing, etc.

In your scenario where they topped up a day before the appointment, let's do a sample timing of someone who would indeed want to bother with a new O, using your example of a last minute top up

1. appointment 30 days before visa expiry, top up done the day before

2. extension application denied

3. trip to Penang 30 days hence (30 days seasoning potential)

4. apply for single entry 0 visa (approx 5 days seasoning potential)

5. appointment 30 days before expiry of new O (60 days seasoning potential)

6. the money would have been seasoned over 90 days as detailed above

BTW, there are thousands of personal reasons why someone wouldn't want to top up 90 days early. You have only mentioned one.

[Guderian]

JG, of course, it totally depends on your situation, bank account timing, etc.

In your scenario where they topped up a day before the appointment, let's do a sample timing of someone who would indeed want to bother with a new O, using your example of a last minute top up

1. appointment 30 days before visa expiry, top up done the day before

2. extension application denied

3. trip to Penang 30 days hence (30 days seasoning potential)

4. apply for single entry 0 visa (approx 5 days seasoning potential)

5. appointment 30 days before expiry of new O (60 days seasoning potential)

6. the money would have been seasoned over 90 days as detailed above

BTW, there are thousands of personal reasons why someone wouldn't want to top up 90 days early. You have only mentioned one.

Jingthing, some interesting thoughts. May I venture a little further?

What's to stop someone applying for a new extension (say) 97 days before the current one expires, having just put the 800K Baht into an appropriate account? If the extension is refused due to lack of seasoning, then just wait 90 days and apply again, by which time the money will have seasoned. You are admittedly only a week away from expiry of the current permission to stay, but it should be enough. There have, after all, been extenuating circumstances, i.e. the refusal of your first application due to a lack of seasoning.

Is there a flaw in this plan?

[Sophon]

What's to stop someone applying for a new extension (say) 97 days before the current one expires

It's unlikely that such an application would be accepted. They like you to apply sometime during the last month or so of you current extension and normally only accept earlier applications if you have a compelling reason (like not being in Thailand when your current extension expires).

Sophon

[JimGant]

let's do a sample timing of someone who would indeed want to bother with a new O, using your example of a last minute top up

1. appointment 30 days before visa expiry, top up done the day before

2. extension application denied

3. trip to Penang 30 days hence (30 days seasoning potential)

4. apply for single entry 0 visa (approx 5 days seasoning potential)

5. appointment 30 days before expiry of new O (60 days seasoning potential)

6. the money would have been seasoned over 90 days as detailed above

Well, yeah, it's doable -- in your above example. By why in the world would I want to go to all the trouble of getting a Non Imm O for the purposes of retiring in Thailand -- only to have to subsequently leave Thailand to obtain another Non Imm O (or, in your words, "someone who would indeed want to bother with a new O" -- this 'someone' obviously being an idiot (my words))? This certainly seems more a hassle than entering on a tourist/visa exempt basis _-- and then converting to a Non Imm O in-country (as explained in a previous entry).

BTW, there are thousands of personal reasons why someone wouldn't want to top up 90 days early. You have only mentioned one.

Well, yeah, losing money (opportunity cost) was the one reason I mentioned. I guess a second would be: Not having the money available.

Please help me out with the other 999+ reasons.

[mcgriffith]

I think the bottom line on this issue is quite simple.

Immigration wants to see the monies in the account 90 days prior to the application date for a retirement extension.

Whether they waive it for the 1st retirement extension is subject to debate.

But it seems clear that everyone who I know who have applied for subsequent retirement extensions in following years have been subject to this seasoning rule.

From what Maestro wrote above, it sounds like the Jomtien Immigration office had it backwards in Oct 06, discovered their error, and are now in compliance.

Why take a chance on this, as mentioned above? If you want to be certain, just comply with this requirement.

[xylophone]

As regards the type of bank accounts........will 800k in a savings type acct qualify for my first retirement extension or did I read somewhere that it has to be in a transactional acct?? Phil

[Lite Beer]

As regards the type of bank accounts........will 800k in a savings type acct qualify for my first retirement extension or did I read somewhere that it has to be in a transactional acct?? Phil

Most people do have a savings account and that is usually ok.

[cecco]

Guys, I don't understand all this talk about 800,000 baht in the bank, and that money is earning nothing? If u guys are that rich, can't u just go to your embassy and get the letter verifying your income to be 800,000 baht a year, and take the letter to immigration and get your visa, and forget this silliness about money in the bank?

800 000 Thai baht = 23 859.2 U.S. dollars annual income, and monthly it would be: 23 859.20 / 12 = $ 1,988.26667 USD. Good grief, even we poor folk get that much on retirement.

Guys, just go to the embassy or consul, verify your income, take a copy of your bank book and a letter from bank verifying your deposit, take these to immigration, along with a T47, but I downloaded it and they didn't like the neat and proper typed t47 that was pretty, they wanted me to use the faded out handwritten one in the jomtien office.

Also, I sat in Jomtien when I got my visas, and when they told me to sit, i sat, and I didn't talk, when they asked why i was there, I told them because i was told to sit here, and they said okay. Everything went smoothly and I got and get each time, my visas with no difficulty at all.

But, at the same time, I saw Dtang Dang or Prated, not sure which, trying to get a visa, and he was shooting off his mouth and was loud. While they did everything for me in the office, they sent him to Malaysia and told him it couldn't be done in Thailand. Now, I would have plugged the guy's mouth with something, but they just politely sent him to Malaysia.

Moral of the story, if u r a jerk, the thais know perfectly well how to deal with you, if you are a good man or woman, they know perfectly well how to show you respect.

Bottom line, take a look at your heart, and you will see what the Thais will see, and they will respond accordingly. Those of u asking all these panicked questions are peculiar, because in Thailand, no matter what the law or policy might be, they do what they want to do.

I wonder if some of you sit in bars and that is your view of Thailand. Sometimes I am not sure you guys have ever circulated much in Thai society.

Also,

1 - Everybodyis related to somebody.

2- Somebody will always influence everybody

Remember !

[Lite Beer]

And how do you prove to the Embassy that your savings are in fact income?

[CHIEFOFFICER]

I got my non-o at KAP CHONG SURIN, showed all papers, told to come back 14 days before exp. date to get my ret.-visa

regards c.o.

[RickFarang]

And any chance of getting an official comment from the office itself.

JGV

Yes. Go to the office an ask.

[perryman]

Could you clarify the situation regarding money in the bank to get this retirement visa. I have obtained this visa now for 3 years and will renew again shortly. I read on this site some months back that the 3 month before date of visa request was only necessary for first request. Subsequent visa requests didn't stipulate this. Is this correct or not as a friend recently said that someone was turned down for a year visa as the account had dropped just below 800.000 three months before although on the day of request was back up to the 800,000 requirement. Obviously he had used some of the money for urgent expenses.

It is all rather confusing and irritating for those of us who have been here a long time and don't want to leave because of an admin change by the authorities. And also is this Credit Card to be shown happening in Pattaya - i understand that this idea was dropped.

Thanks

JGV

What you only need is to show you have a monthly income amounting to more then 65k, if married 40k is enought. I have never heard anyone been asked of 800k in a Thai bank 3 months before applying for extentesen, that is, if you don't have 65k or 40k you have to show up with what you miss to reach the target with copuy/writing from you Thai Bank. That is; if you only have 50k every month in pension, you must have the additonal 225k in you bankaccount when you apply. This 3 months rule was implicated when the 30% law still existed. As we all now this rule is gone with the wind.

perry

[starkey_rich]

Guys, I don't understand all this talk about 800,000 baht in the bank, and that money is earning nothing? If u guys are that rich, can't u just go to your embassy and get the letter verifying your income to be 800,000 baht a year, and take the letter to immigration and get your visa, and forget this silliness about money in the bank?

What's not to understand??? I have a retirement visa but I do not have a pension and I don't have an income I live off my savings.So hence I have to have 800,000k in the bank 90 days before I apply for an extension.This rule is strictly applied down here in Phuket.

Moral of the story, if u r a jerk, the thais know perfectly well how to deal with you, if you are a good man or woman, they know perfectly well how to show you respect.Ha Ha Ha Are you for real.

Read some of the threads in the Phuket forum about the immigration office here.Openly demanding tea money before they give you your visa.

I think you need to get out and about more.

[Jingthing]

Jomtien does NOT have it backwards.

(You could say they MAY have it DIFFERENT, but to say they have it backwards incorrectly implies that not seasoning for first time extensions is allowed now at all other offices, and that is not the case.)

The rule for seasoning for first time extensions is Thailand-wide.

One poster mentioned that his first time extension at CM fell into a short term GRACE PERIOD just after the seasoning rule was passed. It does not follow that is the situation now.

My interest in Jomtien is that I live here and was told point blank:

ONLY NEEDED FOR FIRST TIME EXTENSION

NOT NEEDED FOR SUBSEQUENT EXTENSIONS

To people asking why don't we get a letter? Because we bloody well don't have pensions and will not lie to our embassies or Thai immigration, OK? The topic is specifically about people using the 800K WITHOUT a letter.

Some people have also been granted subsequent extensions without seasoning based on GRACE PERIOD but the question I continue to pursue is at current, well after the grace period of some leniency all over Thailand (yes sometimes for BOTH first time and subsequents) is the POLICY really no seasoning needed at Jomtien a real enforced policy or not.

In general, Thailand-wide, it is fair to assume that NOW well after any leniency period, DO season your money for both first time and subsequent extensions. Those at Jomtien have good reason to still wonder about the policy there for subsequents, and maybe some other offices have different enforcement patterns as well (speak up if you have RECENT reports). Reports from the leniency period are no longer relevant and simply serve to CONFUSE the issue.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[esbkk]

A number of reports (including for me) that at the Jomtien office only, the money does NOT have to be in the bank for three months prior for the SUBSEQUENT applications. I was told this directly and clearly. However, we still do not have one case of someone reporting actually trying this out, in other words, topping up a week before, and successfully getting the extension. Outside Jomtien, I would say definitely season the money. This does not apply to combo method users, you don't need to season.

Did the report you heard about denial occur at Jomtien?????

Credit cards? I don't think this is generally being asked for. However, officers are free to ask you for anything extra from anyone if they want more support for a specific application.

I renewed my retirement extension last month at Suan Plu and HAD to sign a paper that NEXT YEAR the money HAS TO BE IN A BANK FOR 3 MONTH PRIOR TO RENEWAL.

This has been the norm for some years, but is now more rigorously inforced.

esbkk

[Jingthing]

I renewed my retirement extension last month at Suan Plu and HAD to sign a paper that NEXT YEAR the money HAS TO BE IN A BANK FOR 3 MONTH PRIOR TO RENEWAL.

This has been the norm for some years, but is now more rigorously inforced.

esbkk

No reports of any such letters at Jomtien ever read here by me. In fact, reports of being told, NO NEED TO SEASON. You are just confirming what I am saying, Thailand-wide season the money for both first time and extensions, with the chance that some offices may possibly be doing this differently.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

What you only need is to show you have a monthly income amounting to more then 65k, if married 40k is enought. I have never heard anyone been asked of 800k in a Thai bank 3 months before applying for extentesen, that is, if you don't have 65k or 40k you have to show up with what you miss to reach the target with copuy/writing from you Thai Bank. That is; if you only have 50k every month in pension, you must have the additonal 225k in you bankaccount when you apply. This 3 months rule was implicated when the 30% law still existed. As we all now this rule is gone with the wind.

perry

Wrong.

If you have no income or pension you need 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank.

If you extend based on Marriage to a Thai you need 40,000 Baht a month income. Money in a bank will not get you an extension.

[Sophon]

As regards the type of bank accounts........will 800k in a savings type acct qualify for my first retirement extension or did I read somewhere that it has to be in a transactional acct?? Phil

In Thailand what they call a savings account is a transaction account. Reports indicate that a fixed deposit account is normally also accepted.

Sophon

[perryman]

What you only need is to show you have a monthly income amounting to more then 65k, if married 40k is enought. I have never heard anyone been asked of 800k in a Thai bank 3 months before applying for extentesen, that is, if you don't have 65k or 40k you have to show up with what you miss to reach the target with copuy/writing from you Thai Bank. That is; if you only have 50k every month in pension, you must have the additonal 225k in you bankaccount when you apply. This 3 months rule was implicated when the 30% law still existed. As we all now this rule is gone with the wind.

perry

Wrong.

If you have no income or pension you need 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank.

If you extend based on Marriage to a Thai you need 40,000 Baht a month income. Money in a bank will not get you an extension.

Wrong, (but I really don't care)

You must either have 65k if income each month in case you are single or if married to a Thai 40k income each month, this must be verified by you Embassy or your Consulate. I got Non O on a touristvisa from Malaysia late last year, providing the necessarry documents, showing my income, my bankaccounts in Thailand, kopi av card and passbooks, also my homeland Visa Card and Master card, healht certificate and my permanent address in Thailand (never checked up) If you don't exceed 65k which is required for a single farang every month, Phuket Immigration has accepted what I have told, that the difference between your income and 800k each year must be on you bankaccount at the time you apply for extension. These 3 months you talk about are PURE nonses...!

perry

[perryman]

Could you clarify the situation regarding money in the bank to get this retirement visa. I have obtained this visa now for 3 years and will renew again shortly. I read on this site some months back that the 3 month before date of visa request was only necessary for first request. Subsequent visa requests didn't stipulate this. Is this correct or not as a friend recently said that someone was turned down for a year visa as the account had dropped just below 800.000 three months before although on the day of request was back up to the 800,000 requirement. Obviously he had used some of the money for urgent expenses.

It is all rather confusing and irritating for those of us who have been here a long time and don't want to leave because of an admin change by the authorities. And also is this Credit Card to be shown happening in Pattaya - i understand that this idea was dropped.

Thanks

JGV

Take a look here, http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...hp?page=service#

[perryman]

You will firnd everything under the liink I just sent. take a look and write it out in case the Immigration office demand somehing else.

perryman

[perryman]

What you only need is to show you have a monthly income amounting to more then 65k, if married 40k is enought. I have never heard anyone been asked of 800k in a Thai bank 3 months before applying for extentesen, that is, if you don't have 65k or 40k you have to show up with what you miss to reach the target with copuy/writing from you Thai Bank. That is; if you only have 50k every month in pension, you must have the additonal 225k in you bankaccount when you apply. This 3 months rule was implicated when the 30% law still existed. As we all now this rule is gone with the wind.

perry

Wrong.

If you have no income or pension you need 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank.

If you extend based on Marriage to a Thai you need 40,000 Baht a month income. Money in a bank will not get you an extension.

Wrong, (but I really don't care)

You must either have 65k if income each month in case you are single or if married to a Thai 40k income each month, this must be verified by you Embassy or your Consulate. I got Non O on a touristvisa from Malaysia late last year, providing the necessarry documents, showing my income, my bankaccounts in Thailand, kopi av card and passbooks, also my homeland Visa Card and Master card, healht certificate and my permanent address in Thailand (never checked up) If you don't exceed 65k which is required for a single farang every month, Phuket Immigration has accepted what I have told, that the difference between your income and 800k each year must be on you bankaccount at the time you apply for extension. These 3 months you talk about are PURE nonses...!

perry

The link I posted for a few moments ago tells all. I'm not sure, but I can't think you will be denied an extension if you can prove you have eihter 800 000 in the bank if not married to a thai and 400 000 if you are. It will be the first time I have heard about it ...but that is not a proof. This is all based upon no income....proof. Have you checked this, or is it something that is your opinion..! (of course your opinion is good stuff, but it is not law here in Thailand, what is e.g.)

Perryman

[JimGant]

renewed my retirement extension last month at Suan Plu and HAD to sign a paper that NEXT YEAR the money HAS TO BE IN A BANK FOR 3 MONTH PRIOR TO RENEWAL.

Two things here:

Had your money been in the bank for 3 months prior to your last month's renewal at Suan Plu? (i.e, if so, signing this letter was just a formality -- if not, we'd have a parallel to Jomtiem utterances).

So, maybe this is saying: grace period is still in effect -- but next year, no deal (again, the poster said this happened last month).

Maybe this explains what's going on at Jomtiem (but that the door will shut next year).

[Lite Beer]

The link I posted for a few moments ago tells all. I'm not sure, but I can't think you will be denied an extension if you can prove you have eihter 800 000 in the bank if not married to a thai and 400 000 if you are. It will be the first time I have heard about it ...but that is not a proof. This is all based upon no income....proof. Have you checked this, or is it something that is your opinion..! (of course your opinion is good stuff, but it is not law here in Thailand, what is e.g.)

Perryman

You will not get the extension with 400,000 Baht in a bank.

It is the law.

[Sophon]

What you only need is to show you have a monthly income amounting to more then 65k, if married 40k is enought. I have never heard anyone been asked of 800k in a Thai bank 3 months before applying for extentesen, that is, if you don't have 65k or 40k you have to show up with what you miss to reach the target with copuy/writing from you Thai Bank. That is; if you only have 50k every month in pension, you must have the additonal 225k in you bankaccount when you apply. This 3 months rule was implicated when the 30% law still existed. As we all now this rule is gone with the wind.

perry

Wrong.

• 
  

If you have no income or pension you need 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank.

If you extend based on Marriage to a Thai you need 40,000 Baht a month income. Money in a bank will not get you an extension.

Wrong, (but I really don't care)

You must either have 65k if income each month in case you are single or if married to a Thai 40k income each month, this must be verified by you Embassy or your Consulate. I got Non O on a touristvisa from Malaysia late last year, providing the necessarry documents, showing my income, my bankaccounts in Thailand, kopi av card and passbooks, also my homeland Visa Card and Master card, healht certificate and my permanent address in Thailand (never checked up) If you don't exceed 65k which is required for a single farang every month, Phuket Immigration has accepted what I have told, that the difference between your income and 800k each year must be on you bankaccount at the time you apply for extension. These 3 months you talk about are PURE nonses...!

perry

Perryman, you are partly correct but you are also partly wrong (as Lite Beer posted).

There are three ways you can qualify for a retirement extension:

1. Income of THB 65,000 per month attested by embassy letter or tax receipts

2. If you have income, but the income is less than THB 65,000 per month you can make up the shortfall with a bank deposit - the yearly income plus the bank deposit totalling THB 800,000. In this case the money do not need to be in your account three months prior to application.

This is the part you got right.

But there is also a third option:

3. Bank deposit of THB 800,000 certified by letter from your bank. The full amount must be in your account for the three months leading up to your application.

And this has nothing to do with the "30% law" you refer to and is still in effect today. It's to stop a practice going around where people were borrowing the funds a few days before the application for an extension,only to pay them back the day after.

So this is the part you got wrong.

And the information can be found via the link you yourself posted:

Documents required are as follows;

The account deposit with the bank in Thailand of not less than 800,000 Baht.

The proof of such evidence is the updated bank passbook with the certified letter from the bank showing the money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited in the account for the previous 3 months.

OR

Income from pension/social welfare of not less than 65,000 Baht per month.

The proof of such evidence is a letter from the applicant's Embassy or Consulate in Thailand to certify that the applicant receives pension or other income of not less than 65,000 Baht per month.

OR

A combination of the account deposite in the bank plus income (from pension or other source per yearX witha combined total of not less than 800,000 Baht.

Sophon

Reason for edit: To add quote from Immigration Bureau.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Sophon

[mcgriffith]

What you only need is to show you have a monthly income amounting to more then 65k, if married 40k is enought. I have never heard anyone been asked of 800k in a Thai bank 3 months before applying for extentesen, that is, if you don't have 65k or 40k you have to show up with what you miss to reach the target with copuy/writing from you Thai Bank. That is; if you only have 50k every month in pension, you must have the additonal 225k in you bankaccount when you apply. This 3 months rule was implicated when the 30% law still existed. As we all now this rule is gone with the wind.

perry

Wrong.

If you have no income or pension you need 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank.

If you extend based on Marriage to a Thai you need 40,000 Baht a month income. Money in a bank will not get you an extension.

Wrong, (but I really don't care)

You must either have 65k if income each month in case you are single or if married to a Thai 40k income each month, this must be verified by you Embassy or your Consulate. I got Non O on a touristvisa from Malaysia late last year, providing the necessarry documents, showing my income, my bankaccounts in Thailand, kopi av card and passbooks, also my homeland Visa Card and Master card, healht certificate and my permanent address in Thailand (never checked up) If you don't exceed 65k which is required for a single farang every month, Phuket Immigration has accepted what I have told, that the difference between your income and 800k each year must be on you bankaccount at the time you apply for extension. These 3 months you talk about are PURE nonses...!

perry

I think you might not be aware that there are 3 ways to qualify for a retirement extension.

#1 is showing proof of income from a pension (corporate, gov't, etc.) of minimum 65,000 B/month. Consular statement and corroborating financial statements from the issuing entity required.

#2 is showing proof of income less than the above, but still OK. A formula is applied that requires a certain amount of monies to be on deposit to compensate for this shortfall. Say your pension is only half of the requirement, to use an example: 32,500 B/month. You will need to show a deposit amount, in a Thai bank account 90 days prior to your application, of 400,000 B. This is assuming you are single. Married- different rules and different money requirements.

#3 No pension. Show 800,000 B on deposit in a Thai bank account 90 days prior to the application date.

As to what your experience was in Phuket, or what jingthing was told (erroneously) in Jomtien....I say good on you, mate.

Just keep doing what works for you, where you are.

However, the law seems quite clear on this. If your visa situation requires monies on deposit, whatever the amount, they have to be there for 90 days prior to your application date. That is the law. And TIT..

[Jingthing]

As to what your experience was in Phuket, or what jingthing was told (erroneously) in Jomtien....I say good on you, mate.

Whether it was "erroneous" or not is yet to be finally determined. Different immigration offices do indeed do things differently (look at Nong Khai and I remember also hearing some weird stuff at Phuket). The law is in THAI, so English translations are only a guideline for us. BTW, a number of people have reported being told the same thing I was at Jomtien.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

.

#2 is showing proof of income less than the above, but still OK. A formula is applied that requires a certain amount of monies to be on deposit to compensate for this shortfall. Say your pension is only half of the requirement, to use an example: 32,500 B/month. You will need to show a deposit amount, in a Thai bank account 90 days prior to your application, of 400,000 B. This is assuming you are single. Married- different rules and different money requirements.

.

According to the relevant rule it does not have to be there for 90 days in this instance

7.21 In the case of a

retiree: Permission

will be granted for a

period of not more

than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a

temporary visa (NON-IM); and

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age

or over; and

(3) Proof of income of not less than

Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in

Thailand of not less than Baht

800,000 as shown in bank

account transactions for the

past 3 months; or

(5) Annual income plus bank

account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the

filing date of application

Edited August 3, 2008 by Lite Beer

[phuketrichard]

in Phuket the money MUST bre there 90 days or u will not get an extension.

no ifs ands or buts.

I just made mine for the 7th time and since they started the 90 day rule ( 3 yeasrs ago) it has been applied here

Just went up to Cambodia and rented an apt and applied for a 1 years visa multiple entry $240 took all of 2 days o issue.

no paper work at all

After 5 years of this visa i can apply for Cambodian citizenship, get a Cambodian passport (dont need to give up my us one ) asnd then buy land in Cambodia in MY name :-)

[bbeaver1]

Sorry but I am still confused. I am planning to retire in Thailand in December and am wondering how to enter the country, deposit money in a Thai bank, and season it for 90 days without having to make a "visa run"? My pension is not enough to qualify, but the 800000B is not a problem. The problem as I see it, is complying with the 90 day rule. Any suggestions?