Any fans of Pat Oliphant here?

Any fans of Pat Oliphant here?

One of my favourite cartoonists.

Decisive wit, insight and his drawing style is a study of the art. He has been around for many years and one of the few cartoonists who is excluded by editorial control. He and Paul Rigby won that right in the 80s when they objected to their cartoons being modified. Rigby was told by his then editor to redraw a cartoon that attacked a politician. Rigby drew a panel painted black except for a white "CENSORED" stamped across the face. He submitted it and resigned. He was personally called by Murdoch who told him to submit his cartoon as it was and it was published in the second edition.

CB

A good South Aussie boy.

He started his career with the Adelaide Advertiser and was the nephew of Manhattan Project nuclear physicist and South Australian Governor Sir Mark Oliphant.

A good South Aussie boy.

He started his career with the Adelaide Advertiser and was the nephew of Manhattan Project nuclear physicist and South Australian Governor Sir Mark Oliphant.

Paul Rigby is a West Australian and worked for The News also in Adelaide, where he became life long friends with Rupert Murdoch.

He taught drawing at the TAFE just for fun. I did a couple of terms with him when he came out with a book on drawing cartoons.

CB

A good South Aussie boy.

He started his career with the Adelaide Advertiser and was the nephew of Manhattan Project nuclear physicist and South Australian Governor Sir Mark Oliphant.

Not sure where the South Aus reference came from. Rigby was born in Melbourne, served in the war and then joined the West Australian newspapers in 1948.

As a kid in the fifties I can say virtually no one missed his cartoon on the back page of The Daily News every afternoon. Looking for the little boy (Urchin) and the dog hidden in his detailed works was part of daily life.

When he left for the world stage, (Londons "Sun" and New Yorks "Post" and "Daily News") the local Perth paper went into decline and eventually disappeared.

Isn't Paris Hilton still in the race?

Rather her than either of the main candidates.

Although I was in Hanoi last week, on business. Was in a hotel right near the 'Hanoi Hilton' where many American prisoners were kept - not sure if McCain was there or elsewhere. It is now a museum showing how humanely the PoWs were treated. (So McCain must have been elsewhere).

McCain was at The Hanoi Hilton and they used to have some pretty scary photos of him wrapped in steel chains and would show you his cell. They keep making the place look more and more pleasant, but it wasstill terrible the first time that I saw it around 1992.

Two white supremacists have been charged with threatening to kill Democrat Barack Obama during a "killing spree" of some 102 African-Americans, officials said.

The two men planned to kill some 88 people and decapitate 14 African-Americans, before in a final act assassinating Obama, bidding to be the country's first black president, court documents revealed.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tennessee, and Paul Schlesselman, 18, of Helena-West Helena, Arkansas, are being held in custody.

The pair were arrested last Wednesday in Tennessee on possession of firearms, threats against a candidate running for president and conspiring to rob a gun store, the Department of Justice said.

The men began "discussing going on a 'killing spree' that included killing 88 people and beheading 14 African Americans," Brian Weaks, an agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told a Memphis court.

"They further stated that their final act of violence would be to attempt to kill/assassinate presidential candidate Barack Obama," he added, as the two men appeared before the federal court.

The Obama campaign declined to comment on the case.

Cowart, from Bells, Tennessee, and Schlesselman, from Arkansas, met via the internet a month ago and have "very strong beliefs and views regarding 'White Power' and 'Skinhead' views," Weaks told the court.

Cowart had bought one rifle and stockpiled two handguns, both stolen from his grandfather. Schlesselman also had a short-barrelled shotgun and a revolver which he said he had taken from his father without permission.

The pair planned to steal another high-powered rifle from a gun store in Jackson, Tennessee, as well as a series of robberies to finance their bloody plan.

"Schlesselman stated that they planned to drive their vehicles as fast as they could toward Obama shooting at him from the windows," Weaks said.

"Both individuals stated they would dress in all white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt. Both individuals further stated they knew they would and were willing to die during this attempt."

Acting US Attorney for western district of Tennessee, Lawrence Laurenzi, said: "The allegations set forth in this criminal complaint are serious and will be treated as such.

"The public can rest assured that federal, state, and local law enforcement are diligently working together to investigate and prosecute the alleged activity," he added in a statement.

The two men will appear back in the Memphis federal court on Thursday.

Obama is already under secret service protection having received it much earlier in the campaign than any other presidential candidate.

In late August, it was revealed three men were arrested with a weapons cache in Denver, Colorado where the party convention was being held. US lawyers later said there had been no credible threat against Obama.

The Memphis court was told that just before their arrest Cowart and Schlesselman had bought food, nylon rope and ski masks.

They also shot out the window of a local church in Brownsville, Tennessee, before driving back to Cowart's grandfather's home where they chalked racist words and symbols, including a Swastika and the numbers 14 and 88 onto the hood of Cowart's car, before being arrested.

Helena-West Helena, on the Mississippi River in east Arkansas' Delta, is in one of the nation's poorest regions.

Police Chief Fred Fielder said he had never heard of Schlesselman.

However, the reported threat of attacking a school filled with black students worried Fielder. Helena-West Helena, with a population of 12,200, is 66 per cent black.

"Predominantly black school, take your pick," he said.

This is serious shit!!!

What concerns me is that these guys look like real bozos and their plan is rediculous but I think there is a very real threat of Obama being assasinated (assuming he wins of course) while he is taking his Oath as President. I am really not sure if the US (and to a lesser extent) the rest of the world is ready for a black President. There are too many facets of his personality and history that will cause the radical elements of the US population to go beyond voting against him and maybe cause them to try to kill him.

If that happens - the VP takes over but what next?

CB

The U.S. is much more ready for a black President than Australia is a black prime Minister.

If no nutty liberal has killed Bush in the last 8 years, Obama has a pretty good chance of surviving the few ignorant, racist, wackos that will be hunting him.

What really scares me is, if he turns out to be all talk and great speeches and short on substance.

Those guys had no hope. I don't envy them their shower time for the next few years.

I agree General, I just hope he's not too egotistical to get some really smart advisers in. People who have no commitments other than to the good of the country.

He has to keep an eye on Biden, that guy does possibly have baggage but if the vice presidency reverts to it's traditional role it shouldn't be a problem.

The general opinion among thinking Americans is that nothing could be worse than the last eight years.

The general opinion among thinking Americans is that nothing could be worse than the last eight years.

^Amen to that (and a big 'I told you so!' to unnamed parties on various forums!!!)

What concerns me is that these guys look like real bozos and their plan is rediculous but I think there is a very real threat of Obama being assasinated (assuming he wins of course) while he is taking his Oath as President. I am really not sure if the US (and to a lesser extent) the rest of the world is ready for a black President. There are too many facets of his personality and history that will cause the radical elements of the US population to go beyond voting against him and maybe cause them to try to kill him.

If that happens - the VP takes over but what next?

CB

I'm afraid you could be very right, although safety precautions and protection will be more extreme then normal.

You're talking about an assassination/killing during/after he's elected/taking oath, but there's an even greater problem if that happens BEFORE November 4th....

It seems that nobody knows WHAT would happen with the elections (stopped..postponed) and WHAT would happen with the candidate-next-in-line. Would that be Biden or Hillary Clinton ?

I watched a documentary about this possibility and nobody could give a clear answer.

Let's hope it will never happen because America would set itself back in time, dramatically, apart from the fact that the present world wide crisis would deepen and send stock prices to the very bottom.

The whole world would be in trouble, panic and devastation.

LaoPo

I just can't see an attack by a professionally trained and highly organised group happening and they're the only ones who are going to get near him.

My take on white supremacist militia groups in the US is that they are waiting for society to breakdown on it's own rather than trying to cause it.

They could possibly welcome the election of Obama as the beginning of the end that they have been preparing for.

LaoPo

Some internet searching....

The 20th Amendment provides for other contingencies. In the event of the death of a president-elect, it provides that the vice president-elect shall become president for the full term.

If a candidate wins on election day in November and then dies before the Electoral College counts the votes in December, then there is a problem! Technically the electors can already vote for whomever they want to even if the candidate is alive. So the most likely outcome with a death is that the electors would decide who would become president. Obviously the party of the candidate would have something to say about who they should vote for. But the electors would not be bound by the party's opinion. The best outcome would be for all the dead candidate's electors to come together and choose who to vote for in a single block. But that is complicated by the fact that the electors never really all come together at all -- the electors vote in their individual state capitals, not in one big group.

LaoPo

Some internet searching....

The 20th Amendment provides for other contingencies. In the event of the death of a president-elect, it provides that the vice president-elect shall become president for the full term.

If a candidate wins on election day in November and then dies before the Electoral College counts the votes in December, then there is a problem! Technically the electors can already vote for whomever they want to even if the candidate is alive. So the most likely outcome with a death is that the electors would decide who would become president. Obviously the party of the candidate would have something to say about who they should vote for. But the electors would not be bound by the party's opinion. The best outcome would be for all the dead candidate's electors to come together and choose who to vote for in a single block. But that is complicated by the fact that the electors never really all come together at all -- the electors vote in their individual state capitals, not in one big group.

Thanks a lot, sceadugenga; much appreciated !

In your first sentence they speak of the "President-elect"; it doesn't make the situation as I described any easier, on the contrary.

I was talking about a possible scenario that Obama was assassinated BEFORE he was elected....WHAT happens than ?

In that scenario I would think that Hillary Clinton would stand up and claim HER place as the next Candidate for President, instead Biden......am I correct or wrong ?

Did you find anything about that ?

The problem here is that the citizens of the US elect a PERSON/INDIVIDUAL when they vote, not for a party or someone else in line; is that correct ? So, if that person would die BEFORE the elections, who would become candidate ?

Biden or Clinton - who would have more rights ? I suppose the Democratic Party election committee would decide.

Of course I'm speculating as nobody seems to know the answer, also because nobody knows if the elections would have to be postponed and for how long.

Supreme Court case I presume.

LaoPo

A complex conundrum...

LaoPo,

The candidate selection process is determined by party policy, not by the US constitution.

In the event of the death of a candidate, with no time to run new primaries before the election, the party would no doubt call a caucus of senior members and nominate a new candidate by popular acclaim.

Common sense would dictate that it would be the runner up in the primaries rather than some party hack with control over the machine.

Any qualified person seems to be able to nominate for the presidency but I'm not sure how minor party candidates or independents get them selves included on the ballot papers. Ross Perot and Ralph Nader have run as independents, as could Hillary Clinton.

Delaying the election would require considerable legal maneuvering as the date for Federal elections is set by law as the first Tuesday in November.

Obama deserves to win, but the latest reports about him attending PLO related functions certainly make me question where his true loyalties lay. I kind of wish that Hillary had got the nomination.

Obama deserves to win, but the latest reports about him attending PLO related functions certainly make me question where his true loyalties lay. I kind of wish that Hillary had got the nomination.

Yo UG, any more info on ths or a link perhaps?

I saw it on CNN, but I will look for a link.

The guy in question - who spoke at the functions - denied being PLO, but he was close enough.

The U.S. is much more ready for a black President than Australia is a black prime Minister.

I don't think I mentioned anything about Australia electing a black prime minister. Considering the vastly different percentage of population of Aborigines and Black Americans it would be more appropriate to compare Native American Indians with Australian Aborigines and compare the relative percentages of elected ministers and cabinet ministers in both countries.

If no nutty liberal has killed Bush in the last 8 years, Obama has a pretty good chance of surviving the few ignorant, racist, wackos that will be hunting him.

Again the significant difference is the gun laws and illegal market of stolen firearms between the two countries is relevant. There are also very different attitudes between the two countries as can be shown the number of political assassinations in both.

It tends to be white people who are political assassins in the West. I can not recall a black doing this. Plenty have killed in robbery by blacks as indicated by prison populations bit this is different. The Maryland shooter was black but that was rare and motivated by extortion not politics.

I personally hope that irrespective of who wins the election they are allowed to perform as president and not lose their life to a paid or radical assassin.

CB

I am really not sure if the US (and to a lesser extent) the rest of the world is ready for a black President.

This sounds like you are saying that the U.S. is LESS ready than the rest of the world for a black president. I used Australia as one example of another country that is probably less ready than the U.S., but there are many more.

Obama deserves to win, but the latest reports about him attending PLO related functions certainly make me question where his true loyalties lay. I kind of wish that Hillary had got the nomination.

I can't see anything wrong with a wannabe politician listening to terrorist groups as an exercise in comparative doctrines.

It certainly couldn't be any worse than hanging out with some of the right wing Middle eastern and Central Asian governments.

I can't either, but, IMHO, those who are overly liberal, often make the mistake of extending their vast wells of compassion to heartless savages who don't really deserve it.

I think that many Americans are afraid that Obama might turn out to me an ebony Jimmy Carter and this kind of thing makes one more suspicious.

Americans aren't very good at leftist stuff General. Communism never really found supporters there even in the darkest days of the Depression.

Obama will always be American first which means his eye will be on what's best for business.

Come to think of it Pete Seeger's the only decent Commie you ever had.

Abby Hoffman had his moments!

I think I met a Communist sympathizer once in Austin, around 1989. In a peace group, no less. But he never showed us his membership card. Real, doctrinaire Marxists are thinner on the ground than members of the John Birch Society, anyway.

Oh, and then there was the recruiter from the Radical Communist Party, at a peace conference in Dallas, who agreed you could not be a nonviolent Marxist. Then I rode home with the guy who quit the CIA and married his Vietnamese mistress (following Philip Agee's example, in Mexico City). John S. used to shout back at the hecklers who accused him of being on the Commie payroll, "This month's check from Moscow is late!" The other guy in the car on the way back from Dallas that night was the national co-chair of the big peace group. Ah, those were the days...it is all the fault of that Australian pediatrician who read "On the Beach."...

Which goes to show that you can run with a nonconformist, unconventional crowd, as Dr. Oppenheimer did, without buying their ideology, and still be a patriot. I doubt Obama was that radical. Didn't Bill Clinton actually visit Moscow?

Obama deserves to win, but the latest reports about him attending PLO related functions certainly make me question where his true loyalties lay. I kind of wish that Hillary had got the nomination.

UG, sometimes its better to check around before assuming what you hear is true. Obama supported an American based group that was, it appears, originally funded and chaired by McCain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/28/m...l_n_138606.html