With all the fuss over this large hadron collider and the billions it cost it set me thinking what are we trying to achieve with all this scientific research?

Sure research is valuable if it has an identifiable goal and achieving that goal will improve the lives of people. But, as I see it, this huge experiment is designed to find out what conditions existed at the moment of the big bang.

Great! But once we know what it was like to be hanging around zillions of years ago what practical use is it to mankind? This is pure academic research for researches sake, to fund a whole bunch of earnest scientists beavering away to prove some theory that has no relevance to the kid on the street corner.

I’m all for research, being an engineering/science sort of guy, but even I sometimes stop and think surely there must be a limit to our quest for ultimate knowledge. At what point do we say no, interesting though that question might be, we have better uses for that money here on Earth.

I used to think that the moment we stop asking the question “why?” that is the moment we cease to be homo sapiens. But should we be more selective of the why questions we chase down?

What does the forum think?

But i also think part of this research was also a way forward to better understand and to find cures for cancer ect...

I agree with you Phil. I've always thought that just because something can be done doesn't mean that it should be done.

It's the cost with this one, surely the money could have been better spent. And what if it proves nothing of worth?

If we can actually replicate the beginning of the Universe, how can that do anything beside add to useful, useable scientific knowledge?

Most of the work would have been done by students in post graduate programs.

What better way to learn and use this knowledge in other projects?

We may as well say that the NASA space project is a waste of money because no one wants to live on the moon anyway.

In years to come people will claim the technology achieved came from crashed flying saucers.

With all the fuss over this large hadron collider and the billions it cost it set me thinking what are we trying to achieve with all this scientific research?

Sure research is valuable if it has an identifiable goal and achieving that goal will improve the lives of people. But, as I see it, this huge experiment is designed to find out what conditions existed at the moment of the big bang.

Great! But once we know what it was like to be hanging around zillions of years ago what practical use is it to mankind? This is pure academic research for researches sake, to fund a whole bunch of earnest scientists beavering away to prove some theory that has no relevance to the kid on the street corner.

I’m all for research, being an engineering/science sort of guy, but even I sometimes stop and think surely there must be a limit to our quest for ultimate knowledge. At what point do we say no, interesting though that question might be, we have better uses for that money here on Earth.

I used to think that the moment we stop asking the question “why?” that is the moment we cease to be homo sapiens. But should we be more selective of the why questions we chase down?

What does the forum think?

Although I agree that the money could have been better spent, I think we will find out some value to this experiment.

I'd like to think this is one of the early steps, along with the space shuttle programs of the last 60 years, towards refining space travel to make it more viable.

If we knew more about how our galaxy was created, including all this research into matter/anti-matter, black holes (all of which is being studied at the LHC) we may discover more economical and productive manners in which to explore space.

I'm not a Trekkie (though I do enjoy it) but I do actually mean all that seriously.

Don't worry - the money will be re-couped when we learn how to turn lead into gold at the flick of a switch.

Yeah, I agree that trying to find out about something that will never, ever affect the human race is a frivilous use of public money, however, the LHC could hold the secrets to the possiblity of inter stellar travel and time warp theory etc, etc & if these sort of findings are made, good or bad for the human race, I'm more behind this particular example than against it.

Don't worry - the money will be re-couped when we learn how to turn lead into gold at the flick of a switch.

Then gold would be worth "ZILCH"

Most scientific research is expensive and the results of the project will take decades to evaluate and turn into useful products for mankind. That being said, the head of the U.S. Patent Bureau once said that everything that could be invented had already been invented...back in 1904. And look how wrong he was. None of us can speculate how cost-efficient the LHC will be at this time...for you guys who are younger than me, you will find out in your lifetimes. As for me...well I will probably hear about the results in some faraway corner of Paradise.

Most scientific research is expensive and the results of the project will take decades to evaluate and turn into useful products for mankind. That being said, the head of the U.S. Patent Bureau once said that everything that could be invented had already been invented...back in 1904. And look how wrong he was. None of us can speculate how cost-efficient the LHC will be at this time...for you guys who are younger than me, you will find out in your lifetimes. As for me...well I will probably hear about the results in some faraway corner of Paradise.

You're going to retire in Angeles City as well are you?

I must admit, at first, i was wondering why they would waste all that money.

Who knows what could come out of the results. Many experiments have accidentally found things out that they never actually been the targetted intent of the experimement. With the cost of Oil nowadays, the effects it has on the climate and how long before it runs out etc. Could you imagine if the findings found a cheaper, cleaner, alternative source of energy.

Don't worry - the money will be re-couped when we learn how to turn lead into gold at the flick of a switch.

Then gold would be worth "ZILCH"

Well, it would be worth the price of lead!

All that money and it has broken down, two months to fix apparently.

Unbelievable!!

They could have created water irrigation systems throughout Africa for that and for what purpose? It is beyond me

Good Luck to them

Moss

Yeh Phil I'm wiv you.

All that hard earned would be better spent on a free copy of The Sun and a slab of Stella for all the boys.

We'd soon show 'em a fing or two about this namby pamby big bang <deleted>.

Good on ya son.

I must admit, at first, i was wondering why they would waste all that money.

Who knows what could come out of the results. Many experiments have accidentally found things out that they never actually been the targetted intent of the experimement. With the cost of Oil nowadays, the effects it has on the climate and how long before it runs out etc. Could you imagine if the findings found a cheaper, cleaner, alternative source of energy.

Radio 4 had an interview with a medical nuclear physicist the day after they pulled the LHC trigger. She pointed out that ALL the MRI, CT and cancer radiotherapy treatments were developed from what was originally blue skies research. Without the huge 'waste of money' your granny would still be full of morphine and begging to die rather than being given another 10 years of life through radiography. Original research is NEVER a waste of money.

All that money and it has broken down, two months to fix apparently.

Unbelievable!!

It's not unbelievable at all. They've created the biggest machine the world has ever seen and you expect it to work perfectly the first time out?

Don't worry - the money will be re-couped when we learn how to turn lead into gold at the flick of a switch.

Then gold would be worth "ZILCH"

Well, it would be worth the price of lead!

Well, that was the hidden irony of my comment!

All that money and it has broken down, two months to fix apparently.

Unbelievable!!

It's not unbelievable at all. They've created the biggest machine the world has ever seen and you expect it to work perfectly the first time out?

Yes I would expect it to work perfectly first time round and not spend billions for

a faulty electrical connection between two magnets

to fail.

Good Luck

Moss

All that money and it has broken down, two months to fix apparently.

Unbelievable!!

It's not unbelievable at all. They've created the biggest machine the world has ever seen and you expect it to work perfectly the first time out?

Yes I would expect it to work perfectly first time round and not spend billions for

a faulty electrical connection between two magnets

to fail.

Good Luck

Moss

Well there's the problem with these mega-buck hi-tech machines. Everyone is checking out all the sexy parts but nobody bothers looking at the three pin plug.

endure, I agree that a lot of medical advancements could not have been made without such research but surely there must come a time when the cost-benefit analysis tips the balance the other way. Putting hypothetical personal feelings aside is it better to spend billions in the hope of helping some sick people live a little longer and/or better or to spend the money helping many people have a better life by having access to clean water supplies and irrigation water to grow crops?

Good point Phil.

Putting hypothetical personal feelings aside is it better to spend billions in the hope of helping some sick people live a little longer and/or better or to spend the money helping many people have a better life by having access to clean water supplies and irrigation water to grow crops?

It shouldn't be either this or either that. We should be able to do both.

Putting hypothetical personal feelings aside again. Why should someone in Barnsley for instance, who is visiting his/her child in Hospital suffering from Cancer, give a Rats Ass about someone in Africa not having clean water or Rice?

Yeh Phil I'm wiv you.

All that hard earned would be better spent on a free copy of The Sun and a slab of Stella for all the boys.

We'd soon show 'em a fing or two about this namby pamby big bang <deleted>.

Good on ya son.

In other news:

"LHC Hotline: What seems to be the problem?"

"Me Magnets don't work!"

"Have you tried plugging them in, sir...?"

"Doh!"

Just spent the afternoon with a young PC of mine ( and sadly his mom, dad and young son ) who has a matter of hours to live. Diagnosed with cancer six weeks ago, probably dead tomorrow. I agree all original research is useful, but hard to see the bigger picture at present. This thread has made me wonder what could have been achieved with the money spent on research on something that touches the lives of so many with misery now, against the fantastic advances in physics this MAY achieve.

They could have created water irrigation systems throughout Africa

helping many people have a better life by having access to clean water supplies and irrigation water to grow crops?

Crikey, we had better be careful Phil, we are starting to agree with each other

Everyone is checking out all the sexy parts but nobody bothers looking at the three pin plug.

Good luck

Moss

It shouldn't be either this or either that. We should be able to do both.

Why should someone in Barnsley for instance, who is visiting his/her child in Hospital suffering from Cancer, give a Rats Ass about someone in Africa not having clean water or Rice?

On a personal note, I would agree with the sentiment of being able to do both, however whilst Governments continue to sqaunder money on ill thought out schemes and wars it will never happen.

Sometimes it simply comes down to Logistics, a thousand £'s can clean an awful lot of water, but how much will it cost to treat a youngster with cancer for a day, just don't let me be the one telling the family the reason why.

Moss

Sometimes it simply comes down to Logistics, a thousand £'s can clean an awful lot of water, but how much will it cost to treat a youngster with cancer for a day, just don't let me be the one telling the family the reason why.

Is it really that simple? ..... sometimes I think it possibly is. I have never had to hold the hand of a dying child, but I have had to hold the hand of people that have. Instead of spending billions of (name your currency) in the search of something that sparks a bit of curiosity for a select few individuals, why not spend it on..... sorry,... words fail me...... the research currently being conducted at CERN benefits who exactly?

After a bit of poking around on the net I've found that the total cost of the LHC is about 2% of the EU's spend on the military in 2007 alone (£3bn versus £150Bn). Which do you reckon is better value for money? Which do you think would be the better for being diverted into other projects?

EU's spend on the military in 2007 alone (£3bn versus £150Bn). Which do you reckon is better value for money?

I have a particular grief regarding illegal and senseless wars, however Nazi Germany, expanding aggressive Communism, British Imperialism, US military expansionism are all explanatory of the need to defend or liberate yourselves, however wanting to find what happened trillions of zillions of years ago, would need more careful thought I would suggest.

Good Luck

Moss

Well, military spending is a whole new other topic!