Link

I agree with part, but not all of this article, and I am at a loss to understand the reason behind such subterfuge.

Now, after years of fighting for gay equality, men and women can marry others of their own gender and live happily ever after. They can pay, if they wish to, to go to clubs or spas where they know that not very discreet sex is on the agenda. They can advertise in the papers, in magazines, or on the internet. They are free to indulge in what Father Ted Crilly once called "the rough and tumble of homosexual life". But there appears to be no decline in clandestine activity.

Why would you choose the obvious danger of a clandestine chance meeting? Rather than any of the above or other less dangerous activities?

I found it an interesting article, if rather biased and one sided.

Good Luck

Moss

It will take a very long time to figure out what homosexuality really is.

Remember that 50 years ago, Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be.

Right now, because of political correctness, people pretend that homosexuals are just like straights, but they are not. How many straight couples want to have sex in public restrooms?

How many straight couples want to have sex in public restrooms? rolleyes.gif

well there was this very very attractive Italian women i used to date a few years back..... well hel_l to cut to the point, she wanted it in every club , pub and attraction we visited

Maybe so but I assume that she never lurked in the bushes waiting for all comers to approach the restroom.

I think for men, anyway, the lack of commitment... the frisson of excitement as one approaches another new partner, can be addictive.

I went through a few years of this when I frolicked in the Asian prostitution scene. To go out at night and never know where it may end up or with whom.

Fortunately I grew out of it, but some men, homosexual or heterosexual, never do.

Like an ex smoker, I still think about it every day though.

It will take a very long time to figure out what homosexuality really is.

Remember that 50 years ago, Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be.

You forgot "In those countries dominated by the Judaic/Christian/Muslim religions Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be." There are places where gays aren't/weren't reviled. This board is all about one of those places.

As for the original question - it partly answers itself by the mention of 'obvious danger' and for an older subset of British gays it's simply what they're used to. Don't forget they were still locking people up for being gay up to 1967 in England and Wales. Homosexuality was still illegal in Scotland until 1980.

I sometimes think that the media give the general public the impression that being gay in the UK now is all so easy. It might be if you live in London, Manchester or Brum but if you live in Boilton-on-Dearne or up the valleys it can still be pretty tough to be the only gay in the village.

I suppose for the same reasons that hetros do it.....the rush, maybe.

Homosexuality was still illegal in Scotland until 1980.

I suppose that would have had something to do with the kilts.

Homosexuality was still illegal in Scotland until 1980.

I suppose that would have had something to do with the kilts.

That and the caber tossing...

It's only about 15 (ish) years ago that being gay was illegal in the republic of Ireland. Thank goodness things have changed.

As to the op, not sure what the answer is, maybe the buzz as someone already said.

Scotland .........The only country where being a complete tosser is a status symbol ( caber ).

Back to topic.

Just by making it legal, does not make something truly acceptable to the majority if they, deep down at heart, still carry a phobia about the activity. As Endure said, in the valleys perfectly legal to stand up in the local rugby club and declare your love for a dashing wing forward, however, life afterwards may become a tad lonely in the village.

It will take a very long time to figure out what homosexuality really is.

Remember that 50 years ago, Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be.

You forgot "In those countries dominated by the Judaic/Christian/Muslim religions Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be." There are places where gays aren't/weren't reviled. This board is all about one of those places.

Yes, you are correct, but my guess is that would be a giant part of the planet. As far as I know, Communist countries are not approving of homo-sexuality.

Interesting topic. How about Hindus? The Japanese?

what I found disturbing about the article, apart from trying to reason why you would go to such lengths, when there are safer and in my view more pleasant surroundings, but the blatant homophobic slant certain paragraphs related to:

She'd found herself rinsing human excrement out of her dog's beard, after she'd been foolish enough to walk him near the spot on Clapham Common that is the unofficial dogging zone for gay humans.

can you tell the difference between animal and human excrement when it is soiled in a dogs fur?

If by chance you can, can you differentiate between female and male? again by chance you can, then distinguish between hetero/gay?

Again if you can, you really need to get a life

One does begin to wonder why gay men are quite so keen to retain their special status, as people who have a weird dispensation to have sex al fresco in places requisitioned as suitable for the purpose. If heterosexuals began carving up common land in every town so that they could shag each other with no strings attached, no one would consider it a great idea.

Yet another side swipe, the article is littered with such slogans, I can understand it from certain rags, which is why I don't read them, but the Indy?

Perhaps an appraisal of my paper is required?

Good Luck

Moss

I found the comments about The Wire more interesting than the ones on gay lifestyle, but thought the woman was pretty right on about gays.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates - including one who was arrested for running a gay kidnap and torture ring - so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

By the way, the gay torture ring guy had his charges dropped when it was found that gay men were paying to be captured, shat on, tortured with a dental drill and "raped" by my friend and his buds.

That should tell you everything you want to know about the darkside of the "gay lifestyle".

I found the comments about The Wire more interesting than the ones on gay lifestyle, but thought the woman was pretty right on about gays.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates - including one who was arrested for running a gay kidnap and torture ring - so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

By the way, the gay torture ring guy had his charges dropped when it was found that gay men were paying to be captured, shat on, tortured with a dental drill and "raped" by my friend and his buds.

That should tell you everything you want to know about the darkside of the "gay lifestyle".

The fact that you lived in San Francisco for many years no more qualifies you to make sweeping statements about homosexuals in general than living in Harlem qualifies you to make statements about African Americans.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

The fact that you lived in San Francisco for many years no more qualifies you to make sweeping statements about homosexuals in general than living in Harlem qualifies you to make statements about African Americans.

I am really quite surprised you gave it the benefit of a response.

Good Luck

Moss

It will take a very long time to figure out what homosexuality really is.

Remember that 50 years ago, Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be.

You forgot "In those countries dominated by the Judaic/Christian/Muslim religions Gays were as reviled as pedaphiles are now and most people were convinced that they deserved to be." There are places where gays aren't/weren't reviled. This board is all about one of those places.

Yes, you are correct, but my guess is that would be a giant part of the planet. As far as I know, Communist countries are not approving of homo-sexuality.

Interesting topic. How about Hindus? The Japanese?

The Indian sub-continent in general is not very welcoming to gay folks although Sri Lanka is a fairly tolerant place but there again ~70% of Sri Lankans are Buddhist.

In ancient Japan homosexuality (nanshoku) was regarded as one of the purest forms of love, much as it was in Ancient Greece. The Samurai practised shudo which was the eastern equivalent of male bonding that was practised by the Sacred Band of Thebes and the Spartans. Homosexuality as such has never been against the law. Sodomy was outlawed in 1873 but the law outlawing it was repealed in 1880. Bear in mind that one of the major Japanese religions is/was Buddhism. There's that dang religion again!

The modern Japanese attitude to homosexuality (don't ask, don't tell basically) is a result of the desire to appear 'civilised' in the eyes of the west. Those Jesuit missionaries have a great deal to answer for.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

The fact that you lived in San Francisco for many years no more qualifies you to make sweeping statements about homosexuals in general than living in Harlem qualifies you to make statements about African Americans.

I am really quite surprised you gave it the benefit of a response.

Good Luck

Moss

Cheers, Moss. It's very tedious but someone has to try and knock these silly ideas on the head other wise they become common belief.

I found the comments about The Wire more interesting than the ones on gay lifestyle, but thought the woman was pretty right on about gays.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates - including one who was arrested for running a gay kidnap and torture ring - so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

By the way, the gay torture ring guy had his charges dropped when it was found that gay men were paying to be captured, shat on, tortured with a dental drill and "raped" by my friend and his buds.

That should tell you everything you want to know about the darkside of the "gay lifestyle".

The fact that you lived in San Francisco for many years no more qualifies you to make sweeping statements about homosexuals in general than living in Harlem qualifies you to make statements about African Americans.

I thought that Harlem was mainly populated by Hispanics (of any sexual preference) ...... It always surprised me in West Side Story when 'the hero' is walking down the street shouting "Maria" and only one light gets turned on.

I may not be able to make sweeping statements about gays but know enough about the straight life to have a go.

The majority of straight people are uncomfortable with public shows of affection between homosexuals which is almost certainly the basis of the article.

There used to be plenty of bonking in the park between boys and girls a few years back and it was indulgently tolerated but now they just book into a motel, something that used to be difficult without a marriage license.

Endure points to Buddhism as the most tolerant culture regarding homosexuality but I seem to recall that this was only mainly true for male couples.

Also public displays of affection were not allowed between couples of any sexuality.

Even holding hands between men and woman in Thailand was frowned upon.... BUT was common amongst same sex couples who were friends. Women and girls still walk hand in hand in public with out anyone commenting. I've noticed that you rarely see it among heterosexual men or boys though.

Reverse discrimination?

Edit: sceadugenga thinks of some more wisdom.

The societies that were most tolerant of homosexuality were almost all totally male dominated. Japan is pointed to as a culture tolerant of homosexuality but the same time that homosexual men were totally open in their sexuality a husband could kill his wife... merely for being alone in a room with another man, with no legal recriminations.

Tolerant?

I found the comments about The Wire more interesting than the ones on gay lifestyle, but thought the woman was pretty right on about gays.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates - including one who was arrested for running a gay kidnap and torture ring - so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

By the way, the gay torture ring guy had his charges dropped when it was found that gay men were paying to be captured, shat on, tortured with a dental drill and "raped" by my friend and his buds.

That should tell you everything you want to know about the darkside of the "gay lifestyle".

The fact that you lived in San Francisco for many years no more qualifies you to make sweeping statements about homosexuals in general than living in Harlem qualifies you to make statements about African Americans.

Maybe if you live in Harlem and never talk to anybody.

OK, being surrounded by gay people and interacting with them for almost 20 years doesn't teach you anything about them. How about having lots of gay friends and co-workers and (at least) one family member?

I found the comments about The Wire more interesting than the ones on gay lifestyle, but thought the woman was pretty right on about gays.

I lived in San Francisco for many years and had several gay roomates - including one who was arrested for running a gay kidnap and torture ring - so I think that I am fairly expert for being straight.

By the way, the gay torture ring guy had his charges dropped when it was found that gay men were paying to be captured, shat on, tortured with a dental drill and "raped" by my friend and his buds.

That should tell you everything you want to know about the darkside of the "gay lifestyle".

The fact that you lived in San Francisco for many years no more qualifies you to make sweeping statements about homosexuals in general than living in Harlem qualifies you to make statements about African Americans.

Maybe if you live in Harlem and never talk to anybody.

OK, being surrounded by gay people and interacting with them for almost 20 years doesn't teach you anything about them. How about having lots of gay friends and co-workers and (at least) one family member?

You're missing the point. Extrapolating the actions and attitudes of San Francisco gays to the gay Main Street is about as accurate as saying that the inhabitants of Patpong reflect the lives of all straight Thais. San Francisco is a self-selecting zoo.

I may not be able to make sweeping statements about gays but know enough about the straight life to have a go.

The majority of straight people are uncomfortable with public shows of affection between homosexuals which is almost certainly the basis of the article.

There used to be plenty of bonking in the park between boys and girls a few years back and it was indulgently tolerated but now they just book into a motel, something that used to be difficult without a marriage license.

Endure points to Buddhism as the most tolerant culture regarding homosexuality but I seem to recall that this was only mainly true for male couples.

Also public displays of affection were not allowed between couples of any sexuality.

Even holding hands between men and woman in Thailand was frowned upon.... BUT was common amongst same sex couples who were friends. Women and girls still walk hand in hand in public with out anyone commenting. I've noticed that you rarely see it among heterosexual men or boys though.

Reverse discrimination?

Edit: sceadugenga thinks of some more wisdom.

The societies that were most tolerant of homosexuality were almost all totally male dominated. Japan is pointed to as a culture tolerant of homosexuality but the same time that homosexual men were totally open in their sexuality a husband could kill his wife... merely for being alone in a room with another man, with no legal recriminations.

Tolerant?

I've no comment to make about the Japanese attitude to women. I was just answering UG's question about gay Japan.

As far as the straight men holding hands thing you still see it in Thailand amongst teenagers and young men occasionally. I have a 50 year old ex Muay Thai professional friend with a wife and 2 kids who occasionally holds my hand when I go round to see them. I'm sure that he's not doing it because he fancies me

My boyfriend's straight brother always used to hold my hand when I visited the family.

Men holding hands as a sign of friendship is very prevalent across the Middle East and North Africa. We used to visit Hodeidah in the Yemen and there was a regular evening 'promenade' where men would put their best togs on with a pair of very large knives stuck in their belt and walk round hand in hand.

I'd just like to point out that it is not a universal trait of gay men to have sex in public bathrooms, and thus statements like 'straight people are different from gays because they don't want to have sex in bathrooms' have some subtle logical fallacies, even when they are uttered by, um, 'experts.'

Cough.

To add a couple of bits to the Japanese picture- an acquaintance of mine has been living there since just after WWII. In those 'early' postwar years, there were bars, but no gay bars- and that never stopped him from finding guys to bring home.

It's the westernized & politicized version of 'gayness' which created the public awareness of gay 'difference' in Japan- and in Japan, Different = Wrong.

Had a lovely evening drinking with a mixed group of friends in a blue-collar pub once- a burly, man's man kind of guy started hugging me from behind and chatting with me in Japanese. Some stupid girl nearby commented that 'he [the burly guy] must be gay,' and he couldn't have run fast enough. Stupid, stupid girl.

"S"

I may not be able to make sweeping statements about gays but know enough about the straight life to have a go.

The majority of straight people are uncomfortable with public shows of affection between homosexuals which is almost certainly the basis of the article.

There used to be plenty of bonking in the park between boys and girls a few years back and it was indulgently tolerated but now they just book into a motel, something that used to be difficult without a marriage license.

Endure points to Buddhism as the most tolerant culture regarding homosexuality but I seem to recall that this was only mainly true for male couples.

Also public displays of affection were not allowed between couples of any sexuality.

Even holding hands between men and woman in Thailand was frowned upon.... BUT was common amongst same sex couples who were friends. Women and girls still walk hand in hand in public with out anyone commenting. I've noticed that you rarely see it among heterosexual men or boys though.

Reverse discrimination?

Edit: sceadugenga thinks of some more wisdom.

The societies that were most tolerant of homosexuality were almost all totally male dominated. Japan is pointed to as a culture tolerant of homosexuality but the same time that homosexual men were totally open in their sexuality a husband could kill his wife... merely for being alone in a room with another man, with no legal recriminations.

Tolerant?

I've no comment to make about the Japanese attitude to women. I was just answering UG's question about gay Japan.

As far as the straight men holding hands thing you still see it in Thailand amongst teenagers and young men occasionally. I have a 50 year old ex Muay Thai professional friend with a wife and 2 kids who occasionally holds my hand when I go round to see them. I'm sure that he's not doing it because he fancies me

My boyfriend's straight brother always used to hold my hand when I visited the family.

Men holding hands as a sign of friendship is very prevalent across the Middle East and North Africa. We used to visit Hodeidah in the Yemen and there was a regular evening 'promenade' where men would put their best togs on with a pair of very large knives stuck in their belt and walk round hand in hand.

The father of a British friend seems quite fond of me in a fatherly way and when we're out at the pub he'll hold my hand sometimes- quite sweet, really, and given his generation no one misunderstands.

Yeah, I've had my hand held in the past, completely innocently, by both gay and straight men (the straight in my wannabe hippy days) but I'm too full of middle class repressions and hang ups to tolerate it for long.

I'd just like to point out that it is not a universal trait of gay men to have sex in public bathrooms, and thus statements like 'straight people are different from gays because they don't want to have sex in bathrooms' have some subtle logical fallacies, even when they are uttered by, um, 'experts.'

Cough.

Would you concede that far more gay men enjoy having sex in public restrooms than straight couples?

I did mention the "dark side" of the gay lifestyle which means that there are a number of gay men who do not indulge in these sort of activites, but it would be silly to deny that there are a large number that do.

Yeah, I've had my hand held in the past, completely innocently, by both gay and straight men (the straight in my wannabe hippy days) but I'm too full of middle class repressions and hang ups to tolerate it for long.

Would you hold hands with a women who you did not like in a romantic way or were not attracted to? That would bother me almost as much as holding hands with a man. I'm not sure that it's all about middle class repressions and hang ups.

I think that claims on this thread that most people "don't know anything about gays" doesn't really hold up any more.

In the last 50 years gay lifestyle has been so heavily documented that I doubt that it has any mysteries left.

Very few people conceal their sexuality now, apart from a few who may be in a relationship with the opposite sex, and in most cases discrimination has largely disappeared.

Even the most dinosaur like straight males can be heard to boast of their gay friends these days.

(Back in the '50s my father used to take me to a flamboyantly gay barber... but "he was alright because he'd done his bit in the RAF during the war").

Yeah, I've had my hand held in the past, completely innocently, by both gay and straight men (the straight in my wannabe hippy days) but I'm too full of middle class repressions and hang ups to tolerate it for long.

Would you hold hands with a women who you did not like in a romantic way or were not attracted to? That would bother me almost as much as holding hands with a man. I'm not sure that it's all about middle class repressions and hang ups.

If your trying to work around to getting me holding your hand next time I come in the shop General, don't bother.