Congratulations Chula And Mahidol

[jbowman1993]

Hi all.

The 2008 World University Rankings were just released. Some great numbers for Thai Universities, which receive so much "Gloom and doom" from the pundits on this board.

Chulalongkorn University jumped from 223 (2007) to 166

Mahidol University jumped from 284 (2007) to 251

Other Thai Universities in the Top 500 -

400 - Kasetsart Univerisity

400-500 - Chiang Mai University (the universities in this bracket are not ranked by numerical order)

[jdinasia]

shouldn't this be in the General section?

but I had no idea that CMU was rated so low

[jbowman1993]

Perhaps if PB or IWT feel that its useful, they can move it, but this is the place were these topics have been discussed in the past.

[aussiestyle1983]

I think it belongs in here, especially given the constant debates about Thai and other universities that go on in here

Edited October 22, 2008 by aussiestyle1983

[wangsuda]

And the link for this is where?

[jbowman1993]

And the link for this is where?

On Yahoo and Google. Have fun spanky.

[jdinasia]

LOL .. well I guess there are a few farang teaching at them .. so ....

[PeaceBlondie]

It is about teaching in Thailand. Let's see if we get lots of other replies here from non-teachers, in which case we can move this topic to General.

Congrats to Chula and Mahidol. (I always have to remember it sounds like Mahidon).

If this ranking is for all the unis in the world, CMU's ranking is not shabby.

[wangsuda]

And the link for this is where?

On Yahoo and Google. Have fun spanky.

I did have fun, thaks! And while your numbers show up here: http://www.topuniversities.com/university_...s/fullrankings/

There are not here: http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/EN2008.htm

or here: http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp?offset=200

or here: http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_TopAsia(EN).htm

I guess it's all in what you want to read. And please remember, none of these surveys can be considered accurate, since they all ue different qualifiers to rank schools. It's all in what you want. Have fun with that, Spanky.

[jbowman1993]

And the link for this is where?

On Yahoo and Google. Have fun spanky.

I did have fun, thaks! And while your numbers show up here: http://www.topuniversities.com/university_...s/fullrankings/

There are not here: http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/EN2008.htm

or here: http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp?offset=200

or here: http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_TopAsia(EN).htm

I guess it's all in what you want to read. And please remember, none of these surveys can be considered accurate, since they all ue different qualifiers to rank schools. It's all in what you want. Have fun with that, Spanky.

Actually I don't need to have fun, because I wasn't the one that wanted the info. You wanted it, you got it! Good for you, want a cookie?

[wangsuda]

Good for you, want a cookie?

A bit touchy, are we?

[jbowman1993]

Good for you, want a cookie?

A bit touchy, are we?

What was that pot? It's me kettle. You'll have to speak up because I'm a little dark today.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thankfully, this has not turned into a Thai-bashing thread, yet.. Our posters on ThaiVisa include staff and graduates of these fine universities. Not every school in Thailand is backward.

[aussiestyle1983]

And please remember, none of these surveys can be considered accurate, since they all ue different qualifiers to rank schools.

I agree to that. See attached. If doubts can be raised about THE, then given the THE's status as one of the most credible sources, none of these surveys can be given much credibility.

Taken from the article 'Back in top 30 in subject rankings - p.27 - Luke Slattery' in 'Higher Education' section in 'The Australian - 15/10/08'.

THE.pdf

[jbowman1993]

I would say that, while surveys and rankings are, of course, only partially credible, they are based, in part, on quantifiable, measurable statistics (hmmm lots of commas in that sentence). No one is going to confuse Chula with Harvard, but the general opinion laid out on this topic time and again is that Thai Universities suck. The fact that a few universities are excelling in these rankings is a good thing. Rankings as well can be a good thing if viewed in the proper context, as they serve as a nice motivational tool for administrators to encourage faculty and staff towards efficiency and elevated quality standards.

We can take the rankings with a grain of salt, yes, but lets also celebrate that there are some institutions here in Thailand that appear to be on the right track, which is a good thing, no?

[Issangeorge]

Ranking Web of World Universities, http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp?offset=50, has American Universities ranked 1-25 and from 26-50 there are 17 American Universities, and from 51-75 15, and from 76-100 13, that’s 70 American Universities in the top 100 and another 36 in the 101 to 200 range, or 106 Universities in the top 200. My old university, University of Western Ontario, came ranked 196, Queen’s University at 194, 25 years ago when I went to university, these were top ranked schools, I can’t believe there are 135 American Universities better than these two, unless they are marking them by their sports ability and basket weaving capabilities, and even then I can’t believe there are 135 better. To be fair to my American friends Georgetown University was ranked way down at 183, I am sure that a lot of graduates from Georgetown are shaking their head as I am and wondering how they could be ranked so low. Boston Collage and temple also came way down at 264 and 265, and one of the most famous universities in the world, London School of Economics, came in at 314, what’s with that? Chulongkorn University came in at #444, the next Thai university was Kasetsart at # 544. Mahidol and Asian Institute of Technology came in at 740 and 741, Thammasat came in at 850, Chiang Mai University at 877, Assumption at 921, Khon Kaen University at 937. So of 4,000 universities ranked Thailand got 8 in the top 1,000.

In the QS Top Universities Ranking only 36 American Universities were in the top 100 and 56 in the top 200, perhaps a more realistic number. Chulongkorn University came in 166 which was ahead of the famous Note Dame which came in at 168.

[aussiestyle1983]

Ranking Web of World Universities, http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp?offset=50, has American Universities ranked 1-25 and from 26-50 there are 17 American Universities, and from 51-75 15, and from 76-100 13, that’s 70 American Universities in the top 100 and another 36 in the 101 to 200 range, or 106 Universities in the top 200. My old university, University of Western Ontario, came ranked 196, Queen’s University at 194, 25 years ago when I went to university, these were top ranked schools, I can’t believe there are 135 American Universities better than these two, unless they are marking them by their sports ability and basket weaving capabilities, and even then I can’t believe there are 135 better. To be fair to my American friends Georgetown University was ranked way down at 183, I am sure that a lot of graduates from Georgetown are shaking their head as I am and wondering how they could be ranked so low. Boston Collage and temple also came way down at 264 and 265, and one of the most famous universities in the world, London School of Economics, came in at 314, what’s with that? Chulongkorn University came in at #444, the next Thai university was Kasetsart at # 544. Mahidol and Asian Institute of Technology came in at 740 and 741, Thammasat came in at 850, Chiang Mai University at 877, Assumption at 921, Khon Kaen University at 937. So of 4,000 universities ranked Thailand got 8 in the top 1,000.

In the QS Top Universities Ranking only 36 American Universities were in the top 100 and 56 in the top 200, perhaps a more realistic number. Chulongkorn University came in 166 which was ahead of the famous Note Dame which came in at 168.

Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!

The varied rankings between different surveys does raise questions about what survey to believe. I feel a good indication would be to just work out an average rating for a particular uni by adding all its rankings together and dividing it accordingly. Obviously, Harvard would still be number 1! But, the difference in Thai rankings, such as Mahidol being 740 in one ranking and the in the top 200 in another is way off. Has someone been paying tea money?

[Chingatchgook]

The Webometrics survey/ranking factors in firm's internet presence. It is a measure of how well dialed in a university is in terms of employing modern technology. A school with a lot of Web activity and a well developed Website will rank highly.

[RAZZELL]

Ranking Web of World Universities, http://www.webometrics.info/top4000.asp?offset=50, has American Universities ranked 1-25 and from 26-50 there are 17 American Universities, and from 51-75 15, and from 76-100 13, that’s 70 American Universities in the top 100 and another 36 in the 101 to 200 range, or 106 Universities in the top 200. My old university, University of Western Ontario, came ranked 196, Queen’s University at 194, 25 years ago when I went to university, these were top ranked schools, I can’t believe there are 135 American Universities better than these two, unless they are marking them by their sports ability and basket weaving capabilities, and even then I can’t believe there are 135 better. To be fair to my American friends Georgetown University was ranked way down at 183, I am sure that a lot of graduates from Georgetown are shaking their head as I am and wondering how they could be ranked so low. Boston Collage and temple also came way down at 264 and 265, and one of the most famous universities in the world, London School of Economics, came in at 314, what’s with that? Chulongkorn University came in at #444, the next Thai university was Kasetsart at # 544. Mahidol and Asian Institute of Technology came in at 740 and 741, Thammasat came in at 850, Chiang Mai University at 877, Assumption at 921, Khon Kaen University at 937. So of 4,000 universities ranked Thailand got 8 in the top 1,000.

In the QS Top Universities Ranking only 36 American Universities were in the top 100 and 56 in the top 200, perhaps a more realistic number. Chulongkorn University came in 166 which was ahead of the famous Note Dame which came in at 168.

LSE 314???

In anyone's list gotta be in the top 50.

RAZZ

Edited October 24, 2008 by RAZZELL

[bkk_mike]

The Webometrics survey/ranking factors in firm's internet presence. It is a measure of how well dialed in a university is in terms of employing modern technology. A school with a lot of Web activity and a well developed Website will rank highly.

That would definitely explain some of it, as the Americans allocated the IP addresses originally so that we ended up with some individual US universities being allocated more IP addresses than whole countries like China.

That makes it simpler for them.

[jbowman1993]

I would say that, while surveys and rankings are, of course, only partially credible, they are based, in part, on quantifiable, measurable statistics (hmmm lots of commas in that sentence). No one is going to confuse Chula with Harvard, but the general opinion laid out on this topic time and again is that Thai Universities suck. The fact that a few universities are excelling in these rankings is a good thing. Rankings as well can be a good thing if viewed in the proper context, as they serve as a nice motivational tool for administrators to encourage faculty and staff towards efficiency and elevated quality standards.

We can take the rankings with a grain of salt, yes, but lets also celebrate that there are some institutions here in Thailand that appear to be on the right track, which is a good thing, no?

No arguements so far with my assertion, but no agreements either. Is it so hard to celebrate some good news? Is there that much animous and resentment about Thai Univerisities recognized for improvements?

[aussiestyle1983]

I agree that it is good news. But we need more information about the survey, because, I doubt universities performsances change dramaticaly from year to year as the THE's survey indicates in some cases.

[jbowman1993]

Thanks Aussie. Thats one

I suspect all the answers to your question regarding the survey would be found here. http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniver...gs/methodology/

[klikster]

OUCH!

Average International Undergraduate Fees $ USD 11,127

Average Domestic Undergraduate Fees $ USD 1,144

[aussiestyle1983]

OUCH!

Average International Undergraduate Fees $ USD 11,127

Average Domestic Undergraduate Fees $ USD 1,144

Where was that from / for?

At my uni, the domestic fees per Arts unit are $610 and the international fees per Arts unit are $805. That's only about a 1/3 more over the total life of the degree or annual fees however you want to look at it. I've just relaised that's why there are so many intl students, in particular Chinese, at my uni.

[klikster]

OUCH!

Average International Undergraduate Fees $ USD 11,127

Average Domestic Undergraduate Fees $ USD 1,144

Where was that from / for?

At my uni, the domestic fees per Arts unit are $610 and the international fees per Arts unit are $805. That's only about a 1/3 more over the total life of the degree or annual fees however you want to look at it. I've just relaised that's why there are so many intl students, in particular Chinese, at my uni.

I found it on Chula's website, I think .. or maybe one of those 3rd party websites. .. 10:1 Nonresident:Resident.

I checked a few U.S. State uni websites and the ration seems to be between 2 and 3 times.

I found this, but it's a little confusing .. maybe the above included accomms and meals.

http://www.inter.chula.ac.th/inter/interna...dents/frame.htm

http://www.econ.chula.ac.th/programme/ma_inter.html

[aussiestyle1983]

OUCH!

Average International Undergraduate Fees $ USD 11,127

Average Domestic Undergraduate Fees $ USD 1,144

Where was that from / for?

At my uni, the domestic fees per Arts unit are $610 and the international fees per Arts unit are $805. That's only about a 1/3 more over the total life of the degree or annual fees however you want to look at it. I've just relaised that's why there are so many intl students, in particular Chinese, at my uni.

I found it on Chula's website, I think .. or maybe one of those 3rd party websites. .. 10:1 Nonresident:Resident.

I checked a few U.S. State uni websites and the ration seems to be between 2 and 3 times.

I found this, but it's a little confusing .. maybe the above included accomms and meals.

http://www.inter.chula.ac.th/inter/interna...dents/frame.htm

http://www.econ.chula.ac.th/programme/ma_inter.html

Oh, it's for Chula........ That's not surprising given it being a Thai uni. Charging foreigners tenfold seems to be normal practice there

[jbowman1993]

In regard to large differences between tuition fees -

A lot of those fee differences are for "Thai" programs vs "International" Programs. Just like in the primary and secondary schools, when employing international teachers, the salaries are larger, hence the increased tuition. Then, there is the standard argument that "out of state/country" tuition should be higher, since those students do not pay taxes to support the system, etc,. Looking at those reasons, and the numbers are not as extreme as they appear on the surface.

[lannaman]

shouldn't this be in the General section?

but I had no idea that CMU was rated so low

Surely there must be several thousand unis in the world, so in the top 500 - not so bad.

[aussiestyle1983]

In regard to large differences between tuition fees -

A lot of those fee differences are for "Thai" programs vs "International" Programs. Just like in the primary and secondary schools, when employing international teachers, the salaries are larger, hence the increased tuition. Then, there is the standard argument that "out of state/country" tuition should be higher, since those students do not pay taxes to support the system, etc,. Looking at those reasons, and the numbers are not as extreme as they appear on the surface.

No one really indicated that the fees in terms of $ were the problem, moreover, it was the % increase. About 1,000 for domestic and 10,000 for international is ten times more! That is ridiculous, regardless of what it is based on. And, if USD 11,127 is Chula's fee per year for intl students, that is heaps for a Thai uni. My entire degree will cost $14,280 AUD, thats only about $9,300 USD based on a recent exchange rate. So, Chula's international degree costs more than 5 times my degree, which is also from a worlds top200 university according to THE. Even if that fee for Chula was the total degree cost, it is still more than some Western degrees. Like I said Mr. Bowman, the only problem I can see is the percentage increase. In Australia, international students pay about 1/3 or 35% more. Based on that, Chula's international students pay 1000% more. I can't see how that can be justified in any way.