Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[Merangue]

First time poster here.... I work at the aiport... my own customer are exporters who are filling oders from supermakets for high quality fresh produce. pretty normal stuff like corn and asparagus.... herbs etc. Trouble is that the farmers who have been dependent on that produce being shipped to pay for their efforts - are seeing about a week of processed and packed product rotting at the packhouses because there is no more cold room space. margins are only about ten percent... so every day lost means they have to try and sell another 10 days additional product just to stop losing money... the amount of effort required to harvest just one ton of asparagus or corn is significant and involves 100s of people... the airport normally handles about 200-300 ton of this highly perishableoproduce every night. The export orchid marker is also getting destroyed. Miss just one week of shipments and supermarket buyers change suppliers and never return to unreliable markets (I used to be one). Another crisi is looming - every day tons of phramceuticals are shipped into Thiland by air: vaccines, medicines and bio medical products.. that has all stopped.

It would be quite constructive if the media could focus just a little on the impact this is having - rather than who is casuing it... the empty restuarants, entertainment areas (all types), the farmers, hotel and hospitality staff, many are going to be laid off or not have access to discretionatry funds essential for their survival. My own business is shot... so I will be rapidly changing tack (Im lucky)... The Police are in a catch 22 situation. told to go into crowds that have a minorty of hostile armed agitators. Knowing that the PAD has the highest level of partonage (read matriage), if they so much as hurt a hair of the protestors - the Army will use it as an excuse to clobber the Police (no love lost there). Anyway all must agree that this is a tragedy - that I am sure even those in charge cant see their way clear. Certainly an immediate outcome of the protests will the be destruction of many traders who depend on regular and reliable accces to airline passengers, aircargo or the aviation service industry. I live only a few Km from the airport and you would not know anything is happening.... Thais have a way of getting on with things even in adversity. But this time - it is really hurting an economy that doesnt have much protection. Lets all hope this mess can be cleaned up in a way Thais excell at... with minimal conflict and some form of universal Mai Pen Rai... then get back to recovering our normal happy lives.

For a first time post it is an excellent one.

[wxpwzrd]

I agree with you 100%. I just think taking over the airport was going way to far. I believe in PPP being removed by civil means if found guilty. I'm from Virginia where are you from?

No harm no foul. Situations like this tend to bring out the passion in a person's position; on either side or the middle.

I am actually a heartland Nebraska boy. Spent most of my life there before briefly moving to Las Vegas and finally here.

[KireB]

Think more Robin Hood when you think of Thaksin

:D :D :

Yeah... 100 baht handout for you and 100 billion baht handout for me. Please dont forget to vote for me!

[wxpwzrd]

Sorry Joe ... you still don't get it! It isn't terrorism. Terrorism is lobbing grenades in the dark ... Terrorism is firing military ordinance containing RDX into a crowd while not even allowing them an area to escape etc etc etc

Civil disobedience IS inconvenient .... it is meant to be! Do I wish they had found another way? Yes! has this worked so far? Yes! (The government has not been able to illegally change the constitution and is apparently stuck until they get dissolved.) Do I wish the Democrats would resign en-masse forcing snap elections? YES! Do I understand why they do not? Yes! (They don't want to appear to be on PAD's side) Is this a royalist vs anti-royalist end game? Yes! (well I hope it is the end-game)

Fully agree, except don't count on the end game part. Most likely just another chapter of life.

[animatic]

First time poster here.... I work at the aiport... my own customer are exporters who are filling oders from supermakets for high quality fresh produce. pretty normal stuff like corn and asparagus.... herbs etc. Trouble is that the farmers who have been dependent on that produce being shipped to pay for their efforts - are seeing about a week of processed and packed product rotting at the packhouses because there is no more cold room space. margins are only about ten percent... so every day lost means they have to try and sell another 10 days additional product just to stop losing money... the amount of effort required to harvest just one ton of asparagus or corn is significant and involves 100s of people... the airport normally handles about 200-300 ton of this highly perishableoproduce every night. The export orchid marker is also getting destroyed. Miss just one week of shipments and supermarket buyers change suppliers and never return to unreliable markets (I used to be one). Another crisi is looming - every day tons of phramceuticals are shipped into Thiland by air: vaccines, medicines and bio medical products.. that has all stopped.

It would be quite constructive if the media could focus just a little on the impact this is having - rather than who is casuing it... the empty restuarants, entertainment areas (all types), the farmers, hotel and hospitality staff, many are going to be laid off or not have access to discretionatry funds essential for their survival. My own business is shot... so I will be rapidly changing tack (Im lucky)... The Police are in a catch 22 situation. told to go into crowds that have a minorty of hostile armed agitators. Knowing that the PAD has the highest level of partonage (read matriage), if they so much as hurt a hair of the protestors - the Army will use it as an excuse to clobber the Police (no love lost there). Anyway all must agree that this is a tragedy - that I am sure even those in charge cant see their way clear. Certainly an immediate outcome of the protests will the be destruction of many traders who depend on regular and reliable accces to airline passengers, aircargo or the aviation service industry. I live only a few Km from the airport and you would not know anything is happening.... Thais have a way of getting on with things even in adversity. But this time - it is really hurting an economy that doesnt have much protection. Lets all hope this mess can be cleaned up in a way Thais excell at... with minimal conflict and some form of universal Mai Pen Rai... then get back to recovering our normal happy lives.

cattoc,

very, very good post, especially for only a 2nd and you obviously do not have english as a first language.

I think most all wish this was over quickly and with minimal violence and ongoing repercussions.

I hope a negociated settlement is eminent,

and I sure hope the red shirts don't attack in the night,

because THAT could really do damage to the facility.

And that would make it worse for a longer period.

[JacknDanny]

Everytime I read posts from people who have such hatred for Taxin or who show such dogmatic support for the PAD, or the PPP or anyone for that matter, I always wonder how those people affected your life so much, or how the other side would make it so much better.

I guess I am just curious to know how (from those with extreme opinions)...why did you become so extreme?

All I am trying to ask in my posts is: what is the need for average Thai people to damage or destroy their country either supporting or condemning any of the ruling parties?

We have gone through years when policemen abused us thinking we were uneducated stupid idiots. In fact we were among those who received the graduation certificates directly from the King.

Government officials asked us to submit this submit that, copy this copy that, change this change that when we dealt with paperworks. If we wanted things walk, under table money was the key.

Policemen stopped any vehicle they felt like. 100 Baht note was the solution.

Just too much to name.

When Khun Thaksin came up, he said these government officials are paid by public tax and their duty is to serve public. One example: if contractor submits the period completion report, government officers to check within 3 days and pay within 7 days. Failing to do that would bring them to deep shat. Khun Thaksin wanted money to circulate. Contractors having money will buy material to invest for next period. Material shops and manufacturers have income. Money from our tax helped the government to pay IMF loan the previous government caused. After they knocked Khun Thaksin, the Army government did not release or limit the fund: business was stuck. 2 years after Khun Thaksin went until Khun Samak came, Thai economy did not move.

Khun Thaksin talked with some countries nearby not to sell rice and rubber cheap when exporting.

He let people play the illegal lucky draw. Money received was sponsored the best student in each province to study in foreign countries.

Khun Thaksin did not allow traffic policemen to stop vehicles.

Itv channel had secret journalists to find evidences of corrupt government officials. Itv was shot long time ago. Same with anything having Khun Thaksin spirit with it. All have to go.

We Thais saw a huge difference the Thai Rak Thai Party made. They did a lot more for poor people.

People are jealous when Khun Thaksin took chances to bring $ to himself and his family. He did not play the dirty tea money game. He did not kick other parties on the back when saying nice things at face. He did not please those noble people and was too confident until those people kicked him out and changed laws, appointed judges, and dug what he had done in the past.

They created the one that if a member in the party is wrong, the whole party is closed and members involved are banned 5 years.

9 people who judged Khun Thaksin did not have assignment from the King, meaning they are not qualified to judge. But no one can do anything to them.

We have enough shesh when Army people or other parties was PM. Give us TRT/PPP/PT any day.

Please Koo, stop sniffing the glue

[KireB]

Only one case so far? His wife bought a land. He signed because he was her husband. Corruption what?

The courts of this democratic nation seems to think differently.

[ozzieovaseas]

my my frodo,the good khun taksin has been busy..no wonder he had to take an overseas holiday

[groovyc]

It would not be anything new to someone that would support terrorism. I will never be able to convince Al Qaida that 911 is justifiyed. And I will never convince you that seiging the airport is justifiyed. Radicals have their aggenda and the civilized world has to deal with them with force.

Pretty easy for you to make an accusation like that hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly I think you may be that shallow to actually believe what you just spewed... You sound more like a radical extremist considering it is your view or no view. I am not a radical; I am not a terrorist and certainly do not support. I am actually a US Citizen and would bleed on my flag to keep it red. Would you?

There is only one Joe I know here in Surin and it is me. Hardly anonymous. I am shallow and a radical by believing in law and order?? I am a US citizen also. Most people I know in the USA that would bleed on the flag would not support taking over airports and breaking the law. As a supporter of PAD and taking over airports how far do you think you and your PAD buddies would have got in taking over an airport in the USA? You would have been bleeding but not on a flag.

Dang Joe wrong again... I have no PAD buddies, I am not really even a staunch PAD supporter. I believe in the cause of removing corruptness in the government. Yes Joe, Thailand currently has a puppet government financed and owned by Tacky and his family. Will the next one be any better? Probably not, Tacky had enough money to buy the votes he needed, and apparently has his family deeply rooted in the system. But one fight at a time Joe.

US citizen eh...why am I not so surprised. On a different thread, on a different date perhaps, I wouldn't mind hearing out what you have done towards the cause of "removing corruptness in the [uS] govt"....

[JoeInSurin]

Sorry Joe ... you still don't get it! It isn't terrorism. Terrorism is lobbing grenades in the dark ... Terrorism is firing military ordinance containing RDX into a crowd while not even allowing them an area to escape etc etc etc

Civil disobedience IS inconvenient .... it is meant to be! Do I wish they had found another way? Yes! has this worked so far? Yes! (The government has not been able to illegally change the constitution and is apparently stuck until they get dissolved.) Do I wish the Democrats would resign en-masse forcing snap elections? YES! Do I understand why they do not? Yes! (They don't want to appear to be on PAD's side) Is this a royalist vs anti-royalist end game? Yes! (well I hope it is the end-game)

Taking over an international airport causing billions of dollars in losses. Causing a million jobs being lost. Causing comdemnation from the international community and damaging Thailand for years to come is "inconvenient ... it is meant to be!". And you think this is good for Thailand?

[wxpwzrd]

US citizen eh...why am I not so surprised. On a different thread, on a different date perhaps, I wouldn't mind hearing out what you have done towards the cause of "removing corruptness in the [uS] govt"....

Corruptness in the US govt is OT here but forget it... too deeply rooted... So what perfect country do you claim roots to? Something we had to save in a previous war?

[animatic]

this is terrorism:

ASTV Anchor Rutthawut Mitrmak takes cover as he hears gunshots and explosions outside the ASTV studios.

The ASTV studios were attacked at around 2 A.M. last night. M-79 bombs, which were followed by gunfire, were launched at ASTV headquarters while ASTV News1 was broadcasting live from its studio.

Anchor Nutthawut Mitrmak took cover under the desk as assailants opened fire into the studio and several other sections of the building. He was slightly injured by broken glass.

M-79 bombs were found to have caused extensive damage to the first and second floors of the building.

Assailants also gunned down windows and balconies on the third and fourth floors, where TOC's studios and editorial staff are housed. Minor damage was found in TOC's studio as well.

[video on thailandoutlook.tv]

Don't like the message shoot the messenger.

Classic. Gee which side has history of stiffling free speech?

[Xangsamhua]

Have just got home and can't get ASTV. Is it offline elsewhere?

[Colonel_Mustard]

Only one case so far? His wife bought a land. He signed because he was her husband. Corruption what?

The courts of this democratic nation seems to think differently.

[jdinasia]

Sorry Joe ... you still don't get it! It isn't terrorism. Terrorism is lobbing grenades in the dark ... Terrorism is firing military ordinance containing RDX into a crowd while not even allowing them an area to escape etc etc etc

Civil disobedience IS inconvenient .... it is meant to be! Do I wish they had found another way? Yes! has this worked so far? Yes! (The government has not been able to illegally change the constitution and is apparently stuck until they get dissolved.) Do I wish the Democrats would resign en-masse forcing snap elections? YES! Do I understand why they do not? Yes! (They don't want to appear to be on PAD's side) Is this a royalist vs anti-royalist end game? Yes! (well I hope it is the end-game)

Taking over an international airport causing billions of dollars in losses. Causing a million jobs being lost. Causing comdemnation from the international community and damaging Thailand for years to come is "inconvenient ... it is meant to be!". And you think this is good for Thailand?

Joe --- again you are avoiding the whole 'terrorism' thing you claim. There is no way to make a claim that this is 'terrorism'.

Is it good for Thailand? Who knows? It certainly isn't a tactic I would have chosen. Damaging "for years to come" is supposition. It certainly is causing damage right now but is it more or less damage than getting the convicted Thaksin excused by his brother-in-law illegally? Is it like surgery, where you must cause some damage to affect a cure? Right now it sucks ... but it may be that it really was the lesser of two evils.

[Koo82]

If it was so easy to get out why is there so many stories around the world of people who are having trouble leaving? If you have money in your wallet yes you can get out through other means. But some people DONT have the money, some people would be on their last few dollars when they planned to get on those planes.

Glad you told them that.

Someone else thinks tourists are the same as elites in Thailand who point at their bag on tv "This bag costs only 200,000 Baht", and "This watch costs only 12,000,000 Baht".

[JoeInSurin]

US citizen eh...why am I not so surprised. On a different thread, on a different date perhaps, I wouldn't mind hearing out what you have done towards the cause of "removing corruptness in the [uS] govt"....

Corruptness in the US govt is OT here but forget it... too deeply rooted... So what perfect country do you claim roots to? Something we had to save in a previous war?

[Huey]

Time to bring in the Israeli army who could have this mess cleaned up in 5 minutes.

Time to bring in Mossad and take out Thaksin. They'd have this mess cleaned up in 4 minutes.

It would be goodbye in Dubai.

This is what it's all about.............. T H A K S I N.

They don't let that type of trash in Dubai fortunately. Not that thaksin is much better but they draw the line at isrealis.

Also ya gotta figure their are a large number of police in on the PAD action too. I mean how do 2000 protesters overrun a 150 police on a baracaded road in mid air with no way to flank them. You figure the police should have had automatic weapons, yet their where no injuries what so ever when the spot was overan??? no way, that should have been bloody as hel_l.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Huey

[MKAsok]

Latest from Reuters

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Anti-government protesters tightened their grip on Bangkok's international airport on Saturday, attacking police checkpoints aimed at stopping more people from joining the blockade. The protests, aimed at forcing out Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, have paralyzed flights, stranded thousands of passengers and sparked rumors of a military coup, even though the army chief has said he will not seize control.

The government said tourism was suffering and the number of visitors to Thailand could fall by half next year.

In the latest clash, about 150 riot police fled their checkpoint near Suvarnabhumi airport after they were assaulted by protesters hurling iron rods and firecrackers from speeding cars.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) movement, which invaded the airport four days ago, then stationed guards on the expressway exit to prevent the police returning.

Earlier, about 2,000 PAD members forced riot police to abandon another checkpoint near the airport. There was no violence, but one police officer was detained by PAD "security guards," the Nation newspaper reported on its website.

[jts-khorat]

First time poster here.... I work at the aiport... my own customers are exporters who are filling oders from supermakets for high quality fresh produce. pretty normal stuff really like corn and asparagus.... herbs etc. Trouble is that the farmers who have been dependent on that produce being shipped need to be paid for their efforts and investment in next harvest seed, fertilizer and harvet labour -they are now seeing about a week of processed and packed product rotting at the packhouses because there is no more cold room space - lst week 200 tons of fresh produce get returned to packing houses as it was turned back at the airport. Margins are only about ten percent... so every day lost means they have to try and sell another 10 days additional product just to stop losing money... the amount of effort required to harvest just one ton of asparagus or corn is significant and involves 100s of people - significant efforts in processing and investment in expensive packaging... to make things even more cruel- the farmers had lost about 3 - 4 week os sales due to continual rain resulting in crop loss - the product being sent to the airport this week was intended to recover from that previous weather related loss.... the airport normally handles about 200-300 ton of this highly perishable produce every night ( I would be guessing but the total number involved in the total agro supply chain dependent on exporting their produce by air - could be 200-300,000. The export orchid market is also getting destroyed.. over 100 tons of product is normally going to prime overseas markets every day. Miss just one week of shipments and flower and supermarket buyers change suppliers and sometimes never return to unreliable markets (I used to be one) for those who purchsed ex works they will have lost money they would not be able to recover. Another crisis is looming - every day tons of time critical phramceuticals are shipped into Thiland by air: vaccines, medicines and bio-medical products.. that has all stopped. Product caught up in the backlog or in transit (can be worth tens of thousands of dollars for one typical consignment of vaccine) - will be lost.

It would be quite constructive if the media could focus just a little on the deep impact this is having - rather than who is causing it... the empty restuarants, entertainment areas (all types), the farmers, hotel and hospitality staff, many are going to be laid off or not have access to discretionatry funds essential for their survival. My own business is shot... so I will be rapidly changing tack (Im lucky) quite easy for me......

The Police are in a catch 22 situation. We hear they are told to go into and clear the crowds, knowing that a minorty are hostile armed agitators - certainly not sharing the idealogy of the PAD - you dont see reports of the lone female policewomen being beaten up in the streets (of which there have been at least 3 cases in the last few weeks)- which if anything inflame Police further to react. Knowing that the PAD has the highest level of partonage (read matriachal authority which transcends the government), if they so much as hurt a hair of the protestors - the Army will use it as an excuse to clobber the Police (no love lost there).

Anyway all must agree that this is a tragedy - I am sure even those in charge cant see their way clear or maybe they can as I am not Thai). Certainly an immediate outcome of the protests will the be destruction of the livihoods of many traders who depend on regular and reliable accces to airline passengers, aircargo or the aviation service industry. I live only a few Km from the airport and you would not know anything is happening.... Thais have a way of getting on with things even in adversity. But this time - it is really damaging an economy that doesnt have much protection or resiliance. Lets all hope this mess can be cleaned up in a way Thais excel at... with minimal conflict and some form of universal Mai Pen Rai... then get back to recovering their normal happy lives.

I for one hear you loud and clear. But it seems strange that all those people who will loose their jobs do not have a louder voice -- or are they just too stupid to see it?

Example here on Phuket: I talked to many employees in the hopsitality industry (lower level jobs); they were not concerned at all, nor did they make any actual connection that a closed airport might mean that they will have a problem, not right this second but maybe already next week when the cork is out of the bottle and the remaining tourists fly out as fast as they can.

To be fair, the beach here on Phuket looks full (or better, fuller than just 2 weeks ago) and tourists here are not overly concerned, at least to my eyes).

But there seems to be this total disconnect in the Thai populace that this could affect them at all.

[snookmaak]

i m happy that finally you have to come to know that something is really happening ...lol

[JoeInSurin]

Sorry Joe ... you still don't get it! It isn't terrorism. Terrorism is lobbing grenades in the dark ... Terrorism is firing military ordinance containing RDX into a crowd while not even allowing them an area to escape etc etc etc

Civil disobedience IS inconvenient .... it is meant to be! Do I wish they had found another way? Yes! has this worked so far? Yes! (The government has not been able to illegally change the constitution and is apparently stuck until they get dissolved.) Do I wish the Democrats would resign en-masse forcing snap elections? YES! Do I understand why they do not? Yes! (They don't want to appear to be on PAD's side) Is this a royalist vs anti-royalist end game? Yes! (well I hope it is the end-game)

Taking over an international airport causing billions of dollars in losses. Causing a million jobs being lost. Causing comdemnation from the international community and damaging Thailand for years to come is "inconvenient ... it is meant to be!". And you think this is good for Thailand?

Joe --- again you are avoiding the whole 'terrorism' thing you claim. There is no way to make a claim that this is 'terrorism'.

Is it good for Thailand? Who knows? It certainly isn't a tactic I would have chosen. Damaging "for years to come" is supposition. It certainly is causing damage right now but is it more or less damage than getting the convicted Thaksin excused by his brother-in-law illegally? Is it like surgery, where you must cause some damage to affect a cure? Right now it sucks ... but it may be that it really was the lesser of two evils.

JD ---again you are avoiding the terrorism claim because no one was hurt by the PAD's irresponsible actions. Seiging an airport and breaking into the control tower during its operations is an act of terrorism plain and clear. The disruption could have caused a 747 to crash and kill 400 tourist. It was lucky no one was hurt. If during 911 the passengers had got control of the airplanes and they landed and no one was hurt would that make it not an act of terrorism?

[animatic]

Yes, we all know what an honest man Thaksin was:

Corruption/conflict of interests- Changed concessions on mobile phone business as excise tax

- Created satellite business to gain promotion from Board of Investment

- Corruption at Suvarnabhumi Airport and the purchase of CTX bomb detection scanners

- Corruption in the construction of railway Airport Link

- Lack of transparency in privatisation of state enterprises

- Media interference

Abuse of power- Appointed family, relatives, close aides to highranking positions of the state

- Used state budget without seeking approval from the House in projects to promote government popularity

- Abuse of power by negotiating with foreign countries for the interest of themselves (Exim bank loans)

- Abuse of power by instructing state agencies to investigate assets of government opponents

Infringe on ethics and moral integrity of country leader- Sold satellite concession and television station to a foreign country

- Evaded taxes from share sale

Interference in political check system- Interfered with the Senate which appointed independent agencies that checked the government

- Interfered with the appointment of Election Commission, Constitution Court judge and National Counter Corruption Commission and AuditorGeneral

Policy flaws that led to human rights violation- Extrajudicial killing of drug suspects

- Policy mismanagement and abuse of power in solving violence in the south

Created rift and destroyed unity of the public and instigating confrontation- Blocked information that checked the government and the prime minister

- Created confrontation between anti and pro government supporters.

--The Nation 2006-11-21

This much was known back then too.

Of course this leaves out :

Pastrygate attempt to bribe Potty's judges.

Allowing his wife to purchase discount land from government agency he over sees.

Assets conceillment as a family business venture

Skipping out on bail and have 5 warrants out for his arrest.

Banned from politics for 5 years, but exerting proxy control over a political party.

Installing his own brother in law as Prime Minsiter

with a mandate to change the constitution to forgive his actions.

Financing a red-shirt terrorist network to harass and kill his political opponents.

Ah, but he's made the country so much better....

[MKAsok]

Have just got home and can't get ASTV. Is it offline elsewhere?

No problems here (Bangkok)...

[wudangtiger]

Latest from Reuters

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Anti-government protesters tightened their grip on Bangkok's international airport on Saturday, attacking police checkpoints aimed at stopping more people from joining the blockade. The protests, aimed at forcing out Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat, have paralyzed flights, stranded thousands of passengers and sparked rumors of a military coup, even though the army chief has said he will not seize control.

The government said tourism was suffering and the number of visitors to Thailand could fall by half next year.

In the latest clash, about 150 riot police fled their checkpoint near Suvarnabhumi airport after they were assaulted by protesters hurling iron rods and firecrackers from speeding cars.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) movement, which invaded the airport four days ago, then stationed guards on the expressway exit to prevent the police returning.

Earlier, about 2,000 PAD members forced riot police to abandon another checkpoint near the airport. There was no violence, but one police officer was detained by PAD "security guards," the Nation newspaper reported on its website.

this is getting ridiculous. when the forces of anarchy can counter a 'democratic state' - urh, bring in the army?

[henryalleman]

maybe thai police can buy some of that russian experimental gas to pump into the airport like russian swat did a fear years ago with that tchechen terrorist problem in a theatre... if half of them die, so what ... that mean still half of troublemakers alive

economy is in crisis all over the world and they let those pad criminals take over a major income for the country

thai police do not have water cannon ? mace ? clubs ?

time to go put the thrash out !

thaibkk,

i feel very uncomfortable that a countryman of mine make such comments. Can you restrain yourself a little bit please

kind regards

henry

[rainman]

I recommend we all get out our red shirts tomorrow and help honest and hard working Thais get their country back from the hands of these domestic terrorists.

[bangkokrick]

Have just got home and can't get ASTV. Is it offline elsewhere?

No problems here (Bangkok)...

Is it all quiet at the airport MK?

Cheers, Rick

[CL0R0X]

im with you but i got only yellow shirt

[rainman]

im with you but i got only yellow shirt

I don't think you want to wear a yellow shirt in all those red shirts. Someone might take it the wrong way