Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[TAWP]

okay this one made me laugh.... PRO PAD, and selling everything to move back to canada.... But the picture that is priceless.

OMG, what a muppet.

You guys aren't even above ridiculing people and their looks? Way to show how mature you are.

Please post pictures of yourselves so others can post comments about them.

[sriracha john]

Is there any other party in Thailand that could come within 30 points of PPP or their proxies?

According to the results of the last election, the PPP beat the Dems by less than 1%.

Remember that the only reason the PPP has control is because they are part of a coalition with 2 other parties (that, pre-election, claimed they would not side with the PPP).

So yes, there is another party that could possibly beat the PPP.

I'm talking about a head to head competition between anyone put forth by the new PPP (whatever you call it) and Aphisit.

Does anyone believe the Dems would stand even a sliver's chance? Let's go back to 2006 for a refresher.

This was a short-sighted act.

The short-sighted act was Thaksin unnecessarily dissolving Parliament when he had a straight, over-whelming majority already. That was the beginning of his great downfall and one of his many blunders that led the country to where it is today. In his short-sightedness, he never imagined that the Democrats would take the masterfully strategic step and not participate in the elections.

[fudoshinanzan]

When a Thai is in a foreign country, does that make them a farang?

Whenever I hear a Thai use the word farang here when I am eating in a Thai restaurant in Sydney, I quickly remind them that they are the farang in this country................

Farang originate from the word France or French, one of the eariest caucassian (even though the Portugese arr before them). It generally mean WHITE people. Other foreigners of different colour are NOT called Farang................

We're way off topic but yes, presumably with the same origin as barang in Cambodia. Westerner is perhaps a better interpretation than foreigner. As you say, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs etc etc are not farang and so an American is farang if he's white caucasian but not if he's black or of asian extraction. Or so I understand.

That's correct. FARANG is the term to call White People, not black, jap, korean, etc. There is a term that Thai call foreigner: TANG CHART (other national). This term is widely used as well.

khon tang phathet is heard occasionally too. I think that's the phrase that should be used. It's not exactly snappy though, is it? I've heard 'farang' used innocently and out of routine and also quite maliciously and with disdain, but it's not really in the word so much as the context and intent.

I hate the word "Farang", I feel like its 1960 in middle america and I am a black man being called "n....."

Well your feelings are entirely misplaced, but this is not the thread for such discussion.

You're telling him how to feel? If that's how it makes him feel then that's how it makes him feel!

Craziness.

[TAWP]

~Well isn't it curious we have heard NOTHING further about this alleged abduction...?

No sign that this policeman is still being held, no demands for his release.

We don't even have a NAME for this allegedely 'kidnapped officer'.

Maybe he got in the car to go have a negociation and then was dropped off again.

Seems a bit odd this silence, no?

No, it was recorded and broadcast on TV. He didn't get in the car, he was grabbed and forced into it. Obviously not a negotiation. I read somewhere he was released later.

You are not referring to the female undercover cop that was discovered at the entrance to the airport trying to persuade people arriving to not protest and go home instead? She was shown on stage, had to 'publicly' apologize, but wasn't hurt.

[MyphuketLife]

One thing I do not understand is why did the PAD not just only wait for the court decision today to dissolve the PPP instead of this terrorist action at the airport. Can anyone explain that.

Since the government was about to rush through amendments to the constitution making some very crucial changes that could make the dissolve-case void and null and give Thaksin immunity.

And since they wasn't able to hold these assemblies lately, it seems PAD won a small victory at least.

We might not like how they did it but we can at least appreciate that their actions did at least stop something very bad, so far.

I don't "appreciate" anything the PAD has done. Let me get this straight you think its OKAY to break the law in order to stop Thaksin from getting away with breaking the law?

At the end of the day both sides have now broken laws. So no I don't "appreciate" anything the PAD has done in recent months. What makes PAD's law breaking ok and Thanksins law breaking not ok? where do you draw the line?

[dtarasin]

i have a thai family in korat where i stay for 6 months of the year and in the village where i live about 24 people including one in my family have just left to meet other people in korat and are going to the airport ,all in yellow shirts not sure who asked them to come , i dont understand anymore .

Do you know if they are being paid. Please do not speculate if you are not 100% sure. Thanks in advance.

Don't sweat it. 99% of what you read on here is pure speculation.

Brother, if THAT ain't the ever-lovin' truth! Amazing that all the world's political, economic, tourism, psychology, and legal experts all just happen to be members of and so actively posting on this board! My oh my. Does the Thai government, their courts, their transportation authorities and their crisis response bodies KNOW about this place?! Surely not, or every Thai alive today would surely be basking in the sunshine of the one truth, real justice and enlightenment.

================================================

Whatever happened to discourse that went, "In my opinion....", or "It seems to me that.......", or "Does anyone agree with me that....", instead of: "It's OBVIOUS to even an ignorant git that so-n-so is such-n-such, and if you don't realize that you deserve to have your brains sucked out through your elbows and fed to more intelligent people like me!....

AMEN times 10,000,0000!!!! Finally a voice of reason!!! Hawker, wanna form a party of our own? We can invite the reds and the yellows, turn up some music, and drink some beer.

[jts-khorat]

Fast moving progress here, with lots of little breaking news on the Nation:

Constitution Court president Chat Chonlaworn has confirmed that the verdict will be handed down today following the morning's hearing for closing statements on the party dissolution case.

This is much much fatser than anybody could expect, even the most optimist had thiugth the verdict would not be before tomorrow.

Does that mean the PPP will really step down? Anybodies guess, as they are boycotting the hearings already and have not sent anybody to them (the two other parties have).

edit: the hearings also started on time at 10:00.

Edited December 2, 2008 by jts-khorat

[robee]

PAD has in taking control of the Bangkok airports, been either very lucky or has been very smart. I believe it is the later. Now I have no dog in this fight, so I am not advocate or a critic. Just looking at this situation for what it is, and from an outside view. PAD had really no reason to change its plan. No serious attempt by the police to take back control and every day this continues it gives PAD more of what they want, control, if even just in appearance. In the press and the eyes of the world, blocking all access to the airports really gives PAD a strangle hold on this country.

[Insight]

When a Thai is in a foreign country, does that make them a farang?

Whenever I hear a Thai use the word farang here when I am eating in a Thai restaurant in Sydney, I quickly remind them that they are the farang in this country................

Farang originate from the word France or French, one of the eariest caucassian (even though the Portugese arr before them). It generally mean WHITE people. Other foreigners of different colour are NOT called Farang................

We're way off topic but yes, presumably with the same origin as barang in Cambodia. Westerner is perhaps a better interpretation than foreigner. As you say, Japanese, Chinese, Arabs etc etc are not farang and so an American is farang if he's white caucasian but not if he's black or of asian extraction. Or so I understand.

That's correct. FARANG is the term to call White People, not black, jap, korean, etc. There is a term that Thai call foreigner: TANG CHART (other national). This term is widely used as well.

khon tang phathet is heard occasionally too. I think that's the phrase that should be used. It's not exactly snappy though, is it? I've heard 'farang' used innocently and out of routine and also quite maliciously and with disdain, but it's not really in the word so much as the context and intent.

I hate the word "Farang", I feel like its 1960 in middle america and I am a black man being called "n....."

Well your feelings are entirely misplaced, but this is not the thread for such discussion.

You're telling him how to feel? If that's how it makes him feel then that's how it makes him feel!

Craziness.

It's a crazy country.

[fudoshinanzan]

Brother, if THAT ain't the ever-lovin' truth! Amazing that all the world's political, economic, tourism, psychology, and legal experts all just happen to be members of and so actively posting on this board! My oh my. Does the Thai government, their courts, their transportation authorities and their crisis response bodies KNOW about this place?! Surely not, or every Thai alive today would surely be basking in the sunshine of the one truth, real justice and enlightenment.

================================================

Whatever happened to discourse that went, "In my opinion....", or "It seems to me that.......", or "Does anyone agree with me that....", instead of: "It's OBVIOUS to even an ignorant git that so-n-so is such-n-such, and if you don't realize that you deserve to have your brains sucked out through your elbows and fed to more intelligent people like me!....

FACT! Clearly it's obvious and irrefutable that this poster has been shown to be incorrect in all assertions he's made. We can agree on this and any other position is now, obviously, untenable and has no merit.

Though in all seriousness I will say there seems little point in giving an opinion without a fair degree of conviction that you're correct. It can go too far though.

Done.

Over.

I win.

LOL.

Next.

Edited December 2, 2008 by fudoshinanzan

[BeauKarl]

First lesson in crowd control: if you see a group of protesters/hooligans moving towards an no-go area, you make sure you block the roads toward it.

PAD's move from GH to the airports could not have been a surpriese. It must have taken them at least an hour to get there and hours to get fully mobilized! The police just let it happen!

This is something that I've been wandering all the time, how was that all possible?

perhaps they were lookng around to much for farangs without a helmet

[ozfarang81]

Wow that is very fast indeed. Will be a very interesting afternoon!

[chrislarsson]

As a seeker of truth and justice I have stepped back from the emmotive stuff and taken the personalities out of things

If you are also a seeker of a deeper understanding on the development of democracies and its troubles, you should read this article:

The Rise of Illiberal Democracy by Fareed Zakaria

It's a long article, so I will just include the first paragraph:

"THE AMERICAN diplomat Richard Holbrooke pondered a problem on the eve of the September 1996 elections in Bosnia, which were meant to restore civic life to that ravaged country. "Suppose the election was declared free and fair," he said, and those elected are "racists, fascists, separatists, who are publicly opposed to [peace and reintegration]. That is the dilemma." Indeed it is, not just in the former Yugoslavia, but increasingly around the world. Democratically elected regimes, often ones that have been reelected or reaffirmed through referenda, are routinely ignoring constitutional limits on their power and depriving their citizens of basic rights and freedoms. From Peru to the Palestinian Authority, from Sierra Leone to Slovakia, from Pakistan to the Philippines, we see the rise of a disturbing phenomenon in international life -- illiberal democracy."

Fareed Zakaria is currently an editor of Newsweek International and a host of a weekly show on CNN on international issues and foreign affairs. He is not anti-democracy in any way, but he would share the same concerns as many Thais do about introducing democracy in developing countries.

I would recommend to read his book with the same name as well.

Thanks for the comments.

Their are also more countries where democracy works fine.

As for Thailand the majority of people don't seem to have a problem with it, only the elite who see it as an attack to their status.so be it.

For me the principle of one person one vote is paramount.

Would you say the provision of the vote to women in uk was electoral fraud, some did, or to the coloureds in usa was electoral fraud, some did, but democracy survived.?

Trouble with developing democracies like Thailand is that the power still doesnt at the moment lye with the people.

It lye's with the vested interests who see democracy as a threat.

You are welcome. But I would recommend that you read the article as well.

[ozfarang81]

First lesson in crowd control: if you see a group of protesters/hooligans moving towards an no-go area, you make sure you block the roads toward it.

PAD's move from GH to the airports could not have been a surpriese. It must have taken them at least an hour to get there and hours to get fully mobilized! The police just let it happen!

This is something that I've been wandering all the time, how was that all possible?

perhaps they were lookng around to much for farangs without a helmet

Im surprised that people dont understand yet how it could happen. It happens very easily when:

- you are under strict instruction not to use force

- your boss agrees with the PAD action

ISnt it obvious by now that the police and military fully support this?

[dtarasin]

One thing I do not understand is why did the PAD not just only wait for the court decision today to dissolve the PPP instead of this terrorist action at the airport. Can anyone explain that.

Since the government was about to rush through amendments to the constitution making some very crucial changes that could make the dissolve-case void and null and give Thaksin immunity.

And since they wasn't able to hold these assemblies lately, it seems PAD won a small victory at least.

We might not like how they did it but we can at least appreciate that their actions did at least stop something very bad, so far.

Sorry for sounding ignorant, but isn't there a law in Thailand that separates the executive office from the legislative? If they're one and the same, therein could lie the problem.

[MyphuketLife]

okay this one made me laugh.... PRO PAD, and selling everything to move back to canada.... But the picture that is priceless.

OMG, what a muppet.

You guys aren't even above ridiculing people and their looks? Way to show how mature you are.

Please post pictures of yourselves so others can post comments about them.

I am not making fun of his looks, I find the picture priceless. What is funny to me about the picture is: here is a "farang" in the middle of a PAD rally, the only one wearing the PAD bandana... In this picture he seems to be more pro PAD than the Thai's at the event. You don't see any humor in this image?

[mrtoad]

Thai are not very racist (hey nobody is 100% perfect). Here are some of the name they call other colours (they means no harm in most cases):

KEK = India, Arab, and other darker skin asian like Malaysian.

JEK = Chinese

YUNG = Japanese

AI MERD = Black

Ai KAN = Short for American

You're having a Giraffe mate.

[dtarasin]

One thing I do not understand is why did the PAD not just only wait for the court decision today to dissolve the PPP instead of this terrorist action at the airport. Can anyone explain that.

Since the government was about to rush through amendments to the constitution making some very crucial changes that could make the dissolve-case void and null and give Thaksin immunity.

And since they wasn't able to hold these assemblies lately, it seems PAD won a small victory at least.

We might not like how they did it but we can at least appreciate that their actions did at least stop something very bad, so far.

I don't "appreciate" anything the PAD has done. Let me get this straight you think its OKAY to break the law in order to stop Thaksin from getting away with breaking the law?

At the end of the day both sides have now broken laws. So no I don't "appreciate" anything the PAD has done in recent months. What makes PAD's law breaking ok and Thanksins law breaking not ok? where do you draw the line?

Exactly! I've been trying to say this for so long. Good to know someone else sees this too.

[BeauKarl]

First lesson in crowd control: if you see a group of protesters/hooligans moving towards an no-go area, you make sure you block the roads toward it.

PAD's move from GH to the airports could not have been a surpriese. It must have taken them at least an hour to get there and hours to get fully mobilized! The police just let it happen!

This is something that I've been wandering all the time, how was that all possible?

perhaps they were lookng around to much for farangs without a helmet

Im surprised that people dont understand yet how it could happen. It happens very easily when:

- you are under strict instruction not to use force

- your boss agrees with the PAD action

ISnt it obvious by now that the police and military fully support this?

Yes but this means that the PM has no control or what so ever and will never have.

[Tex79]

Fast moving progress here, with lots of little breaking news on the Nation:

Constitution Court president Chat Chonlaworn has confirmed that the verdict will be handed down today following the morning's hearing for closing statements on the party dissolution case.

This is much much fatser than anybody could expect, even the most optimist had thiugth the verdict would not be before tomorrow.

Does that mean the PPP will really step down? Anybodies guess, as they are boycotting the hearings already and have not sent anybody to them (the two other parties have).

edit: the hearings also started on time at 10:00.

That's great news ...I hope

At least it looks like verdict might not drag on as long as the airport protests!

[jts-khorat]

Wow that is very fast indeed. Will be a very interesting afternoon!

Indeed, this is much faster than hoped. Lots of red shirts amassing at the Administrative Court now, but as the judges came one hour early at 09:00 they were too late... which is a very good thing.

As far as I understand, the court has alaready voiced his initial opinion, next in line is Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa to defend his party. At first it looked like Matchima Thipataya Party would not attend but they are there now, just a bit late.

Thiose are the good news. Now the bad: PPP, as mentioned is boycotting the proceedings and all three parties have vowed, according to the Bangkok Post, to work further together, so no break-aways to the Democrats. Also a new party for the MPs whowill find themselves party-less after the dissolution has already been founded and the next in line after Somchai has also already been chosen. So more of the same old, same old. This might not end all that soon as hoped.

edit: Source of the Bangkok Post here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/021208_News/02Dec2008_news01.php

Edited December 2, 2008 by jts-khorat

[BeauKarl]

Fast moving progress here, with lots of little breaking news on the Nation:

Constitution Court president Chat Chonlaworn has confirmed that the verdict will be handed down today following the morning's hearing for closing statements on the party dissolution case.

This is much much fatser than anybody could expect, even the most optimist had thiugth the verdict would not be before tomorrow.

Does that mean the PPP will really step down? Anybodies guess, as they are boycotting the hearings already and have not sent anybody to them (the two other parties have).

edit: the hearings also started on time at 10:00.

Will it really matterif you read this?

The PAD leaders would also reassess the country's political situation after the Constitution Court hands down its verdicts in the party dissolution cases against the People Power, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties. It will continue to rally if the new government is still a proxy government of deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, however.

[PeaceBlondie]

Just a wild opinion, I think, maybe, I am no expert, etc.: the court will dissolve the parties today. Somchai will not resign. PAD will stay at the airport past December 5th, maybe past Dec. 15th.

[KireB]

First lesson in crowd control: if you see a group of protesters/hooligans moving towards an no-go area, you make sure you block the roads toward it.

PAD's move from GH to the airports could not have been a surpriese. It must have taken them at least an hour to get there and hours to get fully mobilized! The police just let it happen!

This is something that I've been wandering all the time, how was that all possible?

perhaps they were lookng around to much for farangs without a helmet

Im surprised that people dont understand yet how it could happen. It happens very easily when:

- you are under strict instruction not to use force

- your boss agrees with the PAD action

ISnt it obvious by now that the police and military fully support this?

Yes it is, and that the reason that not the PAD is to blame for this mess, but the government's refusal to step down.

It's beyond me how a government without control over army or police wont bulge.

ALmost a criminal fact itself!

[Tex79]

Now the bad: PPP, as mentioned is boycotting the proceedings and all three parties have vowed, according to the Bangkok Post, to work further together, so no break-aways to the Democrats. Also a new party for the MPs whowill find themselves party-less after the dissolution has already been founded and the next in line after Somchai has also already been chosen. So more of the same old, same old. This might not end all that soon as hoped.

edit: Source of the Bangkok Post here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/021208_News/02Dec2008_news01.php

Now that is not so great...don't think this decision helps the situation at Suvarnabhumi

...but thanks for the update

[sriracha john]

Paramedics tend to an injured anti-government demonstrator at Don Muang airport in Bangkok December 2, 2008. A bomb blast killed an anti-government protester and wounded 22 at Bangkok's blockaded Don Muang airport on Tuesday, hours before a vote fraud case that could deal a crippling blow to the government.

REUTERS

An anti-government protester surveys the damage after an explosion during a protest at Don Muang domestic airport Tuesday, Dec. 2, 2008, in Bangkok, Thailand. At least one person died and many others were injured by shrapnel in the explosion, as unidentified assailants targeted the anti-government protesters who are calling for Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat to step down.

AP

[Tex79]

Just a wild opinion, I think, maybe, I am no expert, etc.: the court will dissolve the parties today. Somchai will not resign. PAD will stay at the airport past December 5th, maybe past Dec. 15th.

I tend to agree...I wish I didn't though

[RenzoInOz]

Self inflicted??? What school did you guys go to? Change/Democracy/Movement ... try to hear the rumblings underneath the surface happenings

Clearly a better one than you went to - actively wishing damage to your country's economy and reputation, seeing people without work and unable to support their children, seriously damaging businesses, whose owners have nothing to do with your anarchistic views. There are 350,000 people stranded in your country with commitments in their own. They have nothing to do with your fight, yet you think they should all suffer. You sit there rubbing your hands with glee while the people you blindly support kidnap people, beat them, steal and vandalise property.

I cannot begin to wonder where you learned this attitude to life!!

Apparently you find the continuous lobbing of grenades self-inflicted and deserved and consequently you question someone's attitude to life for not agreeing to this? Well what a contribution to society you are mister! And for your schooling, did you ever finish high school? I sincerely doubt it, as most of your posts match a pre-operational brain capacity!

No - never said that, nor do I agree.

But I am beginning to understand the frustrations behind the attacks.

That does not equate to advocating or supporting it. My complaint with Nampeung is her double-standards: when someone attacks the PAD they're evil; but when the PAD kidnaps or beats someone ,that's OK because it is in support of a higher aim.

[sriracha john]

Thai leader keeps out of capital in airport crisis

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - Thailand's prime minister stayed away from the capital Monday, unable to quell a political crisis that has paralyzed his government for weeks and shut down the city's two main airports and stranded 300,000 foreigners.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has refused to send in police to evict protesters besieging the airports or occupying his office complex for fear of bloodshed, instead making weak pleas for them to go home. The demonstrators vow to stay until Somchai resigns; he has refused.

The prime minister has been working out of the northern city of Chiang Mai since Wednesday, saying he wants to avoid a confrontation with the People's Alliance for Democracy, the group that has been campaigning since May to topple the government.

Asked about the crisis, Somchai told reporters: "The authorities are working in line with due process, but we have to depend on police, soldiers and civil servants." He refused to elaborate.

- Associated Press / 1 minute ago

[Nirvana]

AOT Apparently have announced that airport will re open for cargo freighters between 0900 at 1800 tomorrow.

A period which may be extended in due course