Ex-thai Pm Attempts To Block Govt Led By Opponents

[animatic]

Thaksin claims the system isn't working because the courts are unfair, the military is meddling and so on. the opposition claims the system isn't working because the courts are unfair (not having convicted T of electoral fraud and hiding assets) and police meddling. both sides use similar tactics to manipulate the system and make things appear legal. in fact the currently govt changes are entirely legal, on the surface at least.

Thaksin knows how the game is played, he's only pretending otherwise. The only thing T believes in is absolute power.

Thaksin of course was strategically placing his class cronies in both army and police to control both.

Seems his ego made him move too fast to stake out absolute power and he hadn't moved enough

Rooks, Bishops and Pawns around the authority board to gain sufficient control... OOPS!

[Koo82]

He gave the poor hope and treated them like real human being and they will never forget it.

The country club boys.. PAD.. STAND FOR ME AND MYSELF AND I. The hel_l with the poor.

Just look what they did the last few month. Completly ruined the Thai economy for years to come.

Just look at what PAD and Democrats did recently. How ugly! Uglier is they still say nice things like "for Thailand's benefits", "on behalf of Thais". PAD is just a small group of crazy people who destroy anything related to Khun Thaksin and at the same time, PAD brings Thailand down to hel_. Democrats member Somkiat Pongpaiboon is one of the PAD leaders. Do they think Thais don't know this?

During Khun Thaksin's time, real improvements were made, not only hope.

That is why majority of Thais love Khun Thaksin. They vote for the man they love. Do we need college degrees to love someone?

[sriracha john]

Paying elected politician 50 million baht to switch sides and vote for Pueh Thai nominees.

Source?

bulls_t news.

I agree it's bullshite that they can offer bribes so openly... but it's true... as for the source... it's from the Puea Thai Party itself in a freely-given admission...

Puea Thai Party plots to turn the tide

The PTP is refusing to throw in the towel, even as the Democrat Party yesterday led its new alliance to Parliament and formally requested a special session of the House to elect a new PM. Key PTP members huddled in a crisis meeting, hatching a plot to bring defecting MPs back into their camp. Under the plan, PTP MPs will team up in twos. They will be instructed by a core member and each pair tasked with convincing one defecting MP to return to the fold, a Party source said. PTP supporters in defecting MPs' constituencies will also put pressure on them to change their minds. Surapong Towijakchaikul, a PTP MP for Chiang Mai, said the meeting also mentioned the figure of two billion baht - money to be spent convincing the defectors to return and support the party in forming a government.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091208_News/09Dec2008_news04.php

Edited December 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[Koo82]

So, Thailand will have a right wing military backed "Democratic" party led government after all. Big surprise. They are doing a great job in Myanmar, let them have a shot at Thailand. What's the fuss?

Exactly, they are already best friend and party together

What annoys me most is their mouths still recycle "for democracy". People's Alliance for Democracy? For Democrat Party is the right term.

Time the Army and some others let Thais grow up. Stop interfering.

[Pierrot]

It can be argued that Thaksin is less than perfect, but that is not sufficient reason to back the right-wing PAD democrat party.

One could say that when it comes to running a country, its better to have someone who is 15% corrupt - but is a good technocrat and leader

...than someone who is totally clean, but doesn't have a clue about how to manage a country.

Countries can absorb a certain level of leakage and still grow for the general good. (Eg Suharto's Indonesia, where he stole a lot, but not enough to derail growth)

Sorry, but they are definitively not playing in the same league. The Suharto were mafia, messing with Tommy or any of his sibling usually lead to an automatic death sentence. When doing business there, it was usually the first thing you were warned off.

Thai politicians are merely "morally challenged" people.

One word to you...

CHALERM.

You have a point but still not the same league, not as organized.

[animatic]

I am one of those farangs. And I was disgusted by how Thaksin used classic singaporean methods of strangling any oposition, such as suing anyone who criticized him for defamation, using formalities to shut down radio stations etc.

You can dig this forum back to early 2003. When Thaksin was in charge, you were able to say whatever you want. Later it was not always the case. I let you draw you own conclusion.

I concur!

Ridiculous arguement in the big picture.

Maybe, but back then TVF wasn't really of much consequence to him.

Try to do it then in Bangkok Post, Nation, Thai Rath and any of the Thai journals,

or a large imported periodical. Different story entirely.

[Koo82]

It can be argued that Thaksin is less than perfect, but that is not sufficient reason to back the right-wing PAD democrat party.

I agree. Give me Khun Thaksin as PM any day. The handsome Ab- has lost his credit. I was expecting him to be PM 4, 5 years ago seeing that Khun Thaksin people took our tax so much, and hoped the handsome Ab- could do some changes. But after these years and his recent cooperation with PAD, I will be the first to protest if he can make it tomorrow.

[huggybear]

Thaksin your country needs you, it has been nothing but turmoil without you.

Yes, it's much better when you are here stealing money to then pass out to get you and your MP's re-elected.

[rayw]

Paying elected politician 50 million baht to switch sides and vote for Pueh Thai nominees.

Source?

bulls_t news.

Still I don't understand why so many farangs love so much Thaksin.

Go Abhisit!!!

Most Farangs believe in democracy... PPP won...(Thaksin won) the elections... one man one vote... sounds fair to me...

Well get real PLEASE. IF you really believe in democracy then you cannot accept an election with vote buying and rigging, NO not rumours but very true and much proof of it. When we get an honest election then we can accept whoever won (whichever side) to form a respected Government as long as they stay true to their election platform and don't cheat and steal like Thaksins cronies and others before him. THEN and only then (if ever!!) will it sound fair to me and all other fair minded folk.

[Koo82]

The Dems are just the puppets, who will pretend to govern with their ungodly coalition of Parliamentary whores and Newin's poodles!

But they call every PM from PPP/PT Khun Thaksin's puppet.

How cute! The true puppet is the handsome Ab- now.

[Koo82]

cheat and steal like Thaksins cronies

What did Khun Thaksin cheat and steal? Cheat whom? Steal from whom?

[animatic]

Let's be honest: During the Thaksin 'era' a lot of good things happened.

Yes, Mr. T. was obviously corrupt and onviously he absued his power for his own good, but Thailand went into a lot prosperity and economic growth. Yes or no?

Suppose, you were in his position in a country as Thailand, wouldn't you do the same?

I would!!

I find that a sad and pathetic attitude.

I'd use my elected mandate to benefit the populous, rather than break laws, risk imprisonment and harm millions for my own selfish (and insecure) advancement...

When Mr. T was in charge, the world economy was thriving ... Thailand just followed the trend, .. It is in difficult times that you can test leadership ... in 1997 the democrats put Thailand economy back on track .... lets hope that they do the same again ... but very sceptical this time with the likes of Newin breathing on their neck (in fact this could be a trick from the team Newin/Mr. T to get back in charge sooner rather than later)

I suspect Newin wins more points at home getting services to them,

than doing any dirty tricks for Thaksin's benefit.

I think he 'read Thaksin' in Hong Kong at the divorce announcement dinner,

and found he came up wanting...

Yes Abhisit will be hearding cats,

but it's ALWAYS herding cats in this job.

Edited December 14, 2008 by animatic

[Siripon]

When Thaksin was in charge, you were able to say whatever you want.

That is a lie.

Excellent post, well argumented ! I have no choice but to concede defeat.

Don't try to pretend you're not working for a local newspaper.

Absolute nonsense Pierrot, Thaksin:

a. Bought up the only independent TV station, ITV and turned it from a hard hitting news orientated channel into a entertainment based, no criticism of his government station.

b. Various TV talk shows and radio programmes critical of Thaksin were banned, ie Jirmsak Pinthong's.

c.Newspapers were told that any articles critical of Thaksin would receive no advertising from state agencies or AIS.

d. Thaksin sued whenever possible, always demanding ludicrous sums in damages.

e. It ended up with him cancelling meet the press events because of 'negative' questions. Do you remember him holding that silly lollipop X sign from Japan on TV that meant he refused to answer the question.

The man is a dangerous authoritarian, envious of Singapore's political system, remember he said democracy is not the goal in Thailand and the UN is not his father.

BTW, I wonder if it's true the UK have frozen some of his money, suspected of money laundering.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Siripon

[Koo82]

Only 50 000 people attending the meeting, despite huge publicity and organized transport.

How many PAD? 10,000? Sleeping at GH and airports and they say it's peaceful protest.

PAD even said they are majority of Thais. What a joke!

Huge publicity? NBT cut the Truth Today at 10:20pm on 11 and 12 Dec saying they had important event and had to broadcast at that exact time of Truth Today.

Then by the time the reds opened Khun Thaksin's tape, MVtv was cut, online websites were cut with "this account has been suspended" notice.

Now the Army and Police started to bring people to protect tomorrow voting venue. But they did not stop the PAD from living in Suvarnabhumi. How cute!

[geriatrickid]

Funny how your TOTALLY forget Thaksin had MUCH stronger ties to the Myanmar junta...Really TRT and PPP were totally in bed with the Myanmar Junta.

My how the partisan blinkers blind to historic fact.

Actually, I believe that the the Thai military has closer relations to the Myanmar junta than any other Thai entity. Perhaps I misunderstand the allegations in respect to human trafficing, and resource trading. It is convenient to point an accusatory finger at Thaksin for the current trade in Myanmar, but it is unfair. Mr. Thaksin is gone and the trade still goes on. It went on while the military dictatorship which overthrew him was in power. I believe that whoever is in power risks problems if he or she interferes with the military's profitable ventures.

And that brings us back to the most salient of comments;

Time the Army and some others let Thais grow up. Stop interfering.

Yes, it is indeed time for the military to stick to military affairs and not business ventures or real estate developments or airport management etc. I am always astounded by the PAD supporters that will claim PAD stands for democracy and yet look the other way when key leaders are described as military officers. Major General This or General That. Not that Thaksin is any better having rewarded police classmates or military buddies with positions. I don't care what side of the political argument one is on, the situation is made worse by the Thai military's inability to understand the concept that that the military is not the government. And yes I know that the military swears its oath of loyalty to a certain institution, but that does not excuse it from remaining apolitical.

Edited December 14, 2008 by geriatrickid

[huggybear]

Only 50 000 people attending the meeting, despite huge publicity and organized transport.

the Truth Today

Does anyone else see the Orwellian correlation here? Where Big Brother (Toxin) preaches "The Truth?

[animatic]

cheat and steal like Thaksins cronies

What did Khun Thaksin cheat and steal? Cheat whom? Steal from whom?

YOU, among many others.

[hammered]

When Thaksin was in charge, you were able to say whatever you want.

That is a lie.

Excellent post, well argumented ! I have no choice but to concede defeat.

Don't try to pretend you're not working for a local newspaper.

Absolute nonsense Pierrot, Thaksin:

a. Bought up the only independent TV station, ITV and turned it from a hard hitting news orientated channel into a entertainment based, no criticism of his government station.

b. Various TV talk shows and radio programmes critical of Thaksin were banned, ie Jirmsak Pinthong's.

c.Newspapers were told that any articles critical of Thaksin would receive no advertising from state agencies or AIS.

d. Thaksin sued whenever possible, always demanding ludicrous sums in damages.

e. It ended up with him cancelling meet the press events because of 'negative' questions. Do you remember him holding that silly lollipop X sign from Japan on TV that meant he refused to answer the question.

The man is a dangerous authoritarian, envious of Singapore's political system, remember he said democracy is not the goal in Thailand and the UN is not his father.

BTW, I wonder if it's true the UK have frozen some of his money, suspected of money laundering.

That story is certainly doing the rounds. I doubt the UK will either deny or admit to it.

He no doubt has enough to try and influence the big vote tomorrow and it will come down to money the way it goes. Anyway we will either have a Dem or PT led government tomorrow. The unity government is a misnomer.

[animatic]

So, Thailand will have a right wing military backed "Democratic" party led government after all. Big surprise. They are doing a great job in Myanmar, let them have a shot at Thailand. What's the fuss?

Exactly, they are already best friend and party together

What annoys me most is their mouths still recycle "for democracy". People's Alliance for Democracy? For Democrat Party is the right term.

Time the Army and some others let Thais grow up. Stop interfering.

So you are saying that the Thailand Army

is not filled with Thai people???

[Samuian]

Only 50 000 people attending the meeting, despite huge publicity and organized transport.

the Truth Today

Does anyone else see the Orwellian correlation here? Where Big Brother (Toxin) preaches "The Truth?

....the writing on the wall...

point 5 and 6 of the PAD 13. points agenda would solve this problem for a while, but then I agree let him talk, hey after all.. if he wishes to talk it's demonstrating what he really is up to, totalitarian state and him the prime ruler!

The impressions from the stadium reminded me of some scenes from "the wall"... the marching hammers.

[madi]

Is it just me, or does this get more pathetic everyday?

I agree. I think it's disgusting that a mob of anti government protestors should be allowed to hold the country to ransom the way they did.

Democracy my a*se! This is no way to behave in a Democratic society. All you yellow shirts should be ashamed of how you have behaved. You behaved like the baby who never got his chocolate!

When a government is voted in Democratically then you should abide by this government and accept that your side lost. Next election time you make a better case for your party and try and win.

Thank god civilized countries don't behave like this. Western countries like the USA and Great Britain would never behave like this, nor would they allow this to happen.

I think I speak for a lot of the democratic countries across the world when I say that we look upon your actions with shame and disgust. There is no glory in the way you have (and are) behaved.

You missed that TRT AND PPP were dissolved for vote buying???

Civilized countries don't have vote buying, so they don't need the PAD.

Your examples USA and Great Britain say it all. Most Europeans don't see the USA as a democracy. You can only select one of two parties with almost the same ideas. That's an even worse democracy than Thailand.

Factually you are of course wrong.

Americans have over a dozen parties on the ballot.

Any party can run and qualify in America.

And there has never been a coup in America throwing out the elected government.

Presidents can be removed but they are then replaced by their own VP from their own party in America.

You are either uneducated or untruthful or both.

A coup is not what a democracy allows.

A place that has endless coups is certainly not a functioning democracy.

[SiriusBlack1]

Is it just me, or does this get more pathetic everyday?

I agree. I think it's disgusting that a mob of anti government protestors should be allowed to hold the country to ransom the way they did.

Democracy my a*se! This is no way to behave in a Democratic society. All you yellow shirts should be ashamed of how you have behaved. You behaved like the baby who never got his chocolate!

When a government is voted in Democratically then you should abide by this government and accept that your side lost. Next election time you make a better case for your party and try and win.

Thank god civilized countries don't behave like this. Western countries like the USA and Great Britain would never behave like this, nor would they allow this to happen.

I think I speak for a lot of the democratic countries across the world when I say that we look upon your actions with shame and disgust. There is no glory in the way you have (and are) behaved.

Exactly. Did those yellow shirted hooligans think they could hold the country's economy for ransom and there would be no repercussions?

Send the soldiers back to barracks and let's have free and fair elections. Y'know, the kind where the most popular party gets to govern.

The PAD have nobody but themselves to blame for this.

[rayw]

The Dems are just the puppets, who will pretend to govern with their ungodly coalition of Parliamentary whores and Newin's poodles!

But they call every PM from PPP/PT Khun Thaksin's puppet.

How cute! The true puppet is the handsome Ab- now.

Are you real ?? The courts verdict already proved him guilty of fraud. His actions stole form ALL the Thai people He offered ridiculously cheap carrots to the poor like loans folk would have to pay back WITH interest and 30 Baht health schemes that were half hearted and offered very poor health care. Sure gave folk some hope but hope born of corruption and with little long term substance, for that Thaksin was able to cheat the country of billions of Baht and make himself even wealthier, all now proved in court. Don't get me wrong I am pleased for those who used their loans to set up things like Taxi businesses in Bangkok but it hardly cost Thaksin anything, he didn't GIVE them a grant but loaned them money they have to pay back after a while with interest, nice way to get support by offering such tiny carrots for so much back in return. A bit like a man offering you a cheap digital watch for your support and trust then you let him into your house and he steals your jewellery in return, gets convicted and then for some odd reason you still support and trust him. I just cannot understand what some of those Thaksin supporters, who were similarly victims of the confidence trickster, are thinking, if indeed they are thinking at all.

No I am not saying the other side is any better. But WHAT THAILAND REALLY NEEDS RIGHT NOW IS PROPER HONEST AND OBSERVED ELECTIONS. We also need a true peoples party formed beforehand too, with representatives standing for election that are from the ordinary Thai people not the Chinese origin elite ruling class that just exploit Thai folk for cheap labour for their own ends. Then maybe the decent true Thai people will get a fair country and less exploitation and corruption, and especially if they use a proportional representation compulsory voting system (with an abstention box of course) that is the only really true democratic way, unlike the USA and England's grossly undemocratic first past the post system which elects Governments often with well less than 40% of the popular votes and is open to so much fiddling and unfair manipulation.

Edited December 14, 2008 by rayw

[h90]

Paying elected politician 50 million baht to switch sides and vote for Pueh Thai nominees.

Source?

bulls_t news.

Still I don't understand why so many farangs love so much Thaksin.

Go Abhisit!!!

Most Farangs believe in democracy... PPP won...(Thaksin won) the elections... one man one vote... sounds fair to me...

PPP dissolved due to vote buying.....one man one vote not 500 Baht one vote....

[Sakeopete]

cheat and steal like Thaksins cronies

What did Khun Thaksin cheat and steal? Cheat whom? Steal from whom?

All Thais to say the least but lets look at Thaksin's accomplishments:

30 baht health care: results hospitals are almost broke and charging the poor on top of the 30 baht, nice populist policy.

Cheap loans for the rural poor, good idea but he knew Thais are obsessed with gaining face and the first thing they buy is a shiny new phone: result since the Thaksin government put legislation in place to limit cell phone towers AIS had a huge advantage. Farmer buys new phone, new AIS SIM Card Thaksin gets richer as AIS nearly doubles its earnings.

Thaksin government boasts about its economic polices but the whole region boomed from Chinese demand fueled by credit purchases in the west.

Thaksin encourages Thais to spend by credit now Thai house holds have debt 200% higher than pre-Thaksin, how will they pay it back?

Thaksin government boasts of paying off IMF loan, yes he did but only by getting another loan from Singapore with a 30 year interest only payment plan, then after the 30 years Thailand still owes the principle.

Thaksin forces the banks to extend billions in loans to Burma so they could upgrade the cellular and satellite communications, of coarse the risk was worth it to Thai tax payers because Burma had to buy from AIS.

Thaksin doesn't like the criticism from the news papers so he tries and buy through his cronies to control the editors, luckily people protested and it never happened. He continued to control content by law suits and threats of advertisements being pulled.

Thaksin goes on television and asks the poor to pay their taxes for the national interest, then 1 week later sells AIS for 2 billion US dollars and pays no taxes. Not to mention his government changed the country's law to facilitate the 49% foreign ownership rules.

So please tell me what Thaksin did to improve the lives of Thai people that wasn't self serving? What genius did he show for building the Thai economy during a boom time in the region? If he loves the poor why incite violence leading to the death of Thai people so he can stay in politics. If he loved Thai people he would have kept his promise of staying out of politics, if he loved Thai people he would have not formed a proxy government of unqualified ministers (admitted by Samak) to mismanage the country.

Sorry but I don't see what Thaksin did that was so great for Thailand.

[henryalleman]

When Thaksin was in charge, you were able to say whatever you want.

That is a lie.

Excellent post, well argumented ! I have no choice but to concede defeat.

Don't try to pretend you're not working for a local newspaper.

Absolute nonsense Pierrot, Thaksin:

a. Bought up the only independent TV station, ITV and turned it from a hard hitting news orientated channel into a entertainment based, no criticism of his government station.

b. Various TV talk shows and radio programmes critical of Thaksin were banned, ie Jirmsak Pinthong's.

c.Newspapers were told that any articles critical of Thaksin would receive no advertising from state agencies or AIS.

d. Thaksin sued whenever possible, always demanding ludicrous sums in damages.

e. It ended up with him cancelling meet the press events because of 'negative' questions. Do you remember him holding that silly lollipop X sign from Japan on TV that meant he refused to answer the question.

The man is a dangerous authoritarian, envious of Singapore's political system, remember he said democracy is not the goal in Thailand and the UN is not his father.

BTW, I wonder if it's true the UK have frozen some of his money, suspected of money laundering.

BTW, I wonder if it's true the UK have frozen some of his money, suspected of money laundering.

YES, its was annpounced in the European newspapers.

[geriatrickid]

So, Thailand will have a right wing military backed "Democratic" party led government after all. Big surprise. They are doing a great job in Myanmar, let them have a shot at Thailand. What's the fuss?

Exactly, they are already best friend and party together

What annoys me most is their mouths still recycle "for democracy". People's Alliance for Democracy? For Democrat Party is the right term.

Time the Army and some others let Thais grow up. Stop interfering.

So you are saying that the Thailand Army

is not filled with Thai people???

Great logic there.

When the Myanmar junta shoots its citizens and rules the country, it's a bunch of crude thugs in uniforms giving orders. When various African armies go to war with child soldiers, are the children to blame or the military leaders?

I don't think the typical conscript from Surin or Issan supports the military generals, but what choice does a 19 year old uneducated kid scared sh*tless have but to do what's he's ordered to do?. However, there is just so much he will do. That is why the military relies on its loyal units drawn from the Bangkok and southern areas when its time for a coup and a suspension of human rights.

The Thai military sees itself as a supreme entity above the law and above the need to respect the separation of the military and government. One of the biggest problems in Thailand has always been that it doesn't know it's place. There is only one solution: The Costa Rica example, where the military was disbanded. The military needs its wings clipped and fast. They are a pox upon the nation. Recent events demonstrate that the Thai military still thinks its 1932.

[Felt 35]

Thailand have following wikipedia a flawing democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Personally I can’t understand how they can use the word democracy on any country where there are only the individuals/parties to elect who comes from the most wealthy part of the society. In a non democracy they will always will be the best educated and successful business people!

In a democracy all people have the right to the same education and nobody need or can bribe them into better education.

[erobando]

Most Farangs believe in democracy... PPP won...(Thaksin won) the elections... one man one vote... sounds fair to me...

PPP dissolved due to vote buying.....one man one vote not 500 Baht one vote....

Well, even if we ignore the vote buying, there's no change in one man one vote with an Democrat-led coalition.

Thailand has a Parliamentary system, the executive branch isn't directly elected by the general population.

PPP won a plurality of MP seats and formed a coalition government.

Post dissolution, Peua Thai hasn't been able to retain some of its coalition partners plus Newin et al decided not to stay in the PTP framework.

All current MP's were still elected.

But now the (somewhat smaller) plurality PTP doesn't have the backing to create a coalition government, Democrats apparently do.

But it would be just as much elected as was the PPP government.

Whether it will be stable is another question...

[erobando]

The Thai military sees itself as a supreme entity above the law and above the need to respect the separation of the military and government. One of the biggest problems in Thailand has always been that it doesn't know it's place. There is only one solution: The Costa Rica example, where the military was disbanded. The military needs its wings clipped and fast. They are a pox upon the nation. Recent events demonstrate that the Thai military still thinks its 1932.

Whether or not one supported the PPP or Democrats, I think most of us know the Thai military certainly does know its place.

Or rather, the variation factions know their places.

Edited December 14, 2008 by erobando