Fire At Santika Night Club

[MyphuketLife]

My thoughts are with the families....

What a horrible way to bring in the new year for so many families...

Such a shame. RIP

[DP25]

I too was curious as to the sudden outpouring of generosity. The Chinese government only acts in this manner when it is to the benefit of its agenda.

China had their own nightclub fire back in September that killed 43 people. The situation appears very similar to what happened here. Want to show their people they're on the ball about this issue these days. Hopefully they are, it would have been nice more people would have payed attention to the dangers of fire inside a crowded club.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuwang_Club_fire

[Thai at Heart]

Still all the above doesn't rule out arson on the part of the building owners. Easy way to make some extra cash from the insurance payout. With the official spokesperson for the police already writing it off before the investigation even started it is highly reminiscent of the standard template that is applied to these type of events in Thailand. The whole situation is completely typical.

According to the police in an article a ways back, their insurance policy expired months ago. That still doesn't rule anything in or out, but this is the official word from the police so far.

I assumed they were talking about the club owners not the building owners. Either way how is it possible a functioning nightclub/restaurant with capacity for 800+ can have no insurance policy? Sounds like a very messy state of affairs even in Thailand. Surely they could get a short term coverage for the bar due to the number of people on the premesis and the value of the property?

Not to mention that there must be a law that says entertainment venues have to have at least third party type insurance if not fire and water damage etc...

I expect someone round here must know these details as they are written in Thai law.

To get the insurance it needs to have the correct license. As was mentioned earlier, the license was swung through various authorities and the club was reportedly licensed as a late night restaraunt, not a night club.

If the authorities really go after this as they should, there should be dozens of pen pushers up in court because they are the people who granted the wrong licenses and allowed the place to operate. Will it happen? I think this will have to be decided by the PM and the mayor because if they really go after it, it will end up effecting a lot of underlings and also have a carry on effect to many other places which are also operating with the wrong licenses with insufficient safety.

[yabaaaa]

BravinBangkok notified me I had made the "Sun" newspaper in the UK online website.

As usual I noticed they have completely screwed up what was said in my post .......... I never trust any newspaper reports on anything.

Sun....... "A poster called Yabaaaa claimed fire safety certificates could be BOUGHT and SOLD easily by club and hotel bosses."

In fact this is what I said............"I can confirm that in Thailand ISO can be easily "bought", my wifes old company (who'm she worked for) did exactly this. It makes the company look better to countries outside of Thailand such as Europe for exports I should think. The reality is they dont have ISO standards at all.I doubt anything will change regarding fire safety here although it will give my wife more ammunition to stamp out the smoking occurring at the condo blocks where w e rent out units and the Farangs who mainly flout this rule due to their perceptions you can ignore all rules/laws in Thailand"

I am afraid that as long as you are an anonymous poster on an internet forum with nothing else than your anonymous word to back your 2nd hand story up, the most that you can expect from any newspaper is that you are 'claiming' this potentially libelous statement. There are libel laws, and news outlets have to protect themselves. This is standard procedure.

A higher quality newspaper would never give an anonymous internet poster any space at all, not without having his identity first, and fact checking his statements.

Yes I am well aware of that, however simply "reading" what I put in my post previously you can see there was never any mention of "buying fire certificates" anywhere in my posting, in fact there was no mention of "club and hotel bosses" either.

I don't really care what they put because they obviously did not read it at all.

[Basil B]

Still all the above doesn't rule out arson on the part of the building owners. Easy way to make some extra cash from the insurance payout. With the official spokesperson for the police already writing it off before the investigation even started it is highly reminiscent of the standard template that is applied to these type of events in Thailand. The whole situation is completely typical.

According to the police in an article a ways back, their insurance policy expired months ago. That still doesn't rule anything in or out, but this is the official word from the police so far.

I assumed they were talking about the club owners not the building owners. Either way how is it possible a functioning nightclub/restaurant with capacity for 800+ can have no insurance policy? Sounds like a very messy state of affairs even in Thailand. Surely they could get a short term coverage for the bar due to the number of people on the premesis and the value of the property?

Not to mention that there must be a law that says entertainment venues have to have at least third party type insurance if not fire and water damage etc...

I expect someone round here must know these details as they are written in Thai law.

Sounds like the did not even have a licence for entertainment and was only licensed as a food shop, it could not get a licence as an entertainment venue because it was out side the entertainment zone, as reported by Telegraph

[george]

Update:

Safety measures stepped up after nightclub fire tragedy

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Minister of Interior has ordered authorities involved to inspect safety measures at entertainment venues in Bangkok and throughout Thailand and outline measures to prevent possible accidents following a New Year fire at a packed Bangkok club which killed 60 partygoers.

Interior minister Chavarat Charnvirakul said during his visit to Chulalongkorn Hospital where blaze victims from the New Year’s blaze at Santika Club were being treated that law enforcement in fire safety and the building code must be stepped up.

“We should learn from this tragic event and come up with measures to avoid repeating the same mistakes. There should be random inspections on safety measures to be conducted by Bangkok Metropolitan Administration officials,” said the interior minister.

Thai officials said so far 11 charred bodies were still unidentified from the Santika blaze and the death toll had risen to 60.

Thirty-five foreigners were among the nearly 250 people injured in the fire on New Year's Eve. According to Chulalongkorn Hospital director Adisorn Pataradul, his hospital was treating 12 people injured in the blaze, and one of two critically-injured patients was a Japanese national, Keiichi Wada.

Department of Information director-general Tharit Charungvat said Chinese ambassador to Thailand Zhang Jiuhuan had sent a message of condolence regarding the loss of lives and injuries in the fire. China was also to send medical supplies worth US$500,000 for treatment of the fire victims, due to arrive in Thailand on Saturday.

Police Maj. Gen. Jongrak Jutanont said police had interviewed witnesses and survivors to establish the cause of the blaze, which was yet to be concluded.

“Now the initial allegation is the club operator broke the law by allowing people under the age of 20 to enter the club,” he said.

Gen. Jongrak said a seventeen-year-old was found dead in the fire. Police will press charges against the club’s owner, who was reportedly being treated in a hospital. The Police Chief added the incident was not likely arson, as the club’s insurance had expired in mid 2008.

-- TNA/MCOT 2009-01-02

[Ijustwannateach]

Myopic, but predictable. These clubs, which presumably have had licenses of some kind which would have required safety inspections, for years, will now be 'inspected.' And of course, the major responsibility of the club with demonstrably insufficient safety standards is underage admission. Sad.

[Fahnsteve]

You guys are wrong. This fire was broadcast on CNN all over the U.S. on the morning of New Year's Day in Washington, DC. Video and everything.

In fact, I'm looking for a list of those injured or hospitalized. Any help there?

[Thai at Heart]

Thai police investigate pub in New Year inferno

By Deutsche Presse Agentur/The Nation

Police announced plans to bring charges against a major shareholder in the Santika, Visuk Setsawad, for permitting people under the drinking age of 20 to enter the pub which turned into a deadly inferno Thursday morning - New Year's Day.

Hospitals on Friday had been able to identify 40 of the 59 victims of the fire, including one Singaporean, police and metropolitan authorities said.

At least 51 of the injured were still in hospital Friday, including 12 foreigners from Australia, Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Malaysia and Singapore, a spokesman at the Bangkok emergency centre said.

Chulalongkorn Hospital performed emergency surgery on Japanese national Keiichi Wada, 25, to drain water from his abdomen, according to The Nation online news service. Wada suffered burns to 60 per cent of his body and was in a coma.

Survivors of the tragedy said the fire started less than 30 minutes after midnight, shortly after a pyrotechnical display on the second floor of the Santika Pub which had billed its New Year's Eve bash as "Goodbye Santika," as the lease on the premises was due to expire on January 1.

Police have not yet been able to contact the pub's owner, but a preliminary investigation has raised questions about the legal status of the pub's operations.

An unidentified source at the Metropolitan Police Bureau told the Bangkok Post newspaper that Santika Pub, one of Bangkok's most popular hangouts for well-to-do young Thais and expatriates, had been registered as a "night-time food shop" instead of an entertainment venue, which required it to close at midnight.

Deputy Police Commissioner-General Police General Jongrak Juthanon claimed Friday that the police had been opposed to the pub's operations but had been overruled by an injunction of the Administrative Court.

The pub had only one main exit and one fire extinguisher, raising serious questions about the building's safety standards and those of other entertainment venues in the capital.

Most of the casualties were caused by a mad rush to get out through the main door as the fire quickly spread through the pub, causing a blackout that added to the chaos.

It took firefighters about two hours to get the fire under control Thursday morning, leaving the building gutted.

At least this appears to be a factual evaluation of how much anybody knows right now.

If their intention is to press only under age entry as a crime, obviously, the damage limitation has started. Please someone, particularly our new Anti-corruption PM do something more than this.

[Johpa]

What's the Chinese Embassy getting involved for. There haven't even been any reports of Chinese nationals being at the club. Very odd.

Apart from accepting the situation of living in the most southern monthol, may I suggest reading Charm Offensive: How China's Soft Power Is Transforming the World

by Joshua Kurlantzick.

[aromsia]

Just last year in September 2007, in Bangkok, The Mandarin Hotel caught fire and 16 foreign tourists were injured. Nobody died. The police stated there was no functioning sprinkler system and this fact was also pointed out by the 400 tourists who were evacuated from the hotel. Guests also complained there was no fire alarm and no evacuation procedure. No staff were on hand to instruct guests. There was no emergency lighting or floor lights to show emergency exits. In the aftermath of the fire, management declined to make any comment and could not be contacted No charges were ever pressed against the hotel owners or management. I could add no lessons were learned by the BMA or police. All sound familiar?

Yes it just never ends here does it? The Mandarin, the Bangkok Waterslide, the Route 66, the Mecedes Benz kid who deliberately ran down passengers at a bus stop -cause he was mad at a bus driver (some say a connection to the Landmark Hotel clan - unconfirmed - why never confirmed? TIT), the Klong Toey fires and now the Santika.

Now can anyone piece together the parts of this puzzle that add up to: "F+ck Yo+ if you're not a "hi-so Thai" - your death is wortheless...and we don't need to do anything about it"??

I still think this one - the Santika - is going to cause problems for the upper classes. They can't ignore this one.

Let's see what happens. Lucky you - out of the mix -- just in time, pal. Oh and how ironic - wasn't it something to do with fire trucks? Sh+te.

Edited January 3, 2009 by sbk
obscenity removed--sbk

[Thai at Heart]

Is it so difficult to find an owner of a nightclub and get him in for questioning?

[rainman]

Santika ( spainish language ) = Beauty of the nature

It's NOT a Spanish word, neither Thai.

It sounds Indonesian to me.

R.I.P.

WHO ARE WE

The name "Santika" was derived from a Spanish word "San-ti-ka" which mean "Beautiful of Nature. Santika pub&restaurant is inspired by nature ,and position it self to be Thailand’s first entertainment outlet that innovatively blends the comfort of nature with the excitement of the Bangkok nightlife.Lastly, Santika has the best vision that goes straight to cath up the customer’s expextation, Which is "The Future of Entertainment."

http://www.santikaclub.com/home.php

I really don't know how they connected the word "Santika" to anything in Spanish. The closest I can figure out is "san" which is short of "santo" and means "holy". Whoever connected "Santika" with "Beautiful of Nature" in Spanish must have been high on something.

[Old Man River]

If their intention is to press only under age entry as a crime, obviously, the damage limitation has started. Please someone, particularly our new Anti-corruption PM do something more than this.

This is only an initial charge so there is something on record. There are still so many factors to be sorted out before any substantive criminal charges can be filed.

[Thai at Heart]

Is it so difficult to find an owner of a nightclub and get him in for questioning?

What makes you think they haven't found him? Just like "THEY" didn't freeze Thaksin's assets for several weeks after seizing power from a majority elected Government by force of arms. Now why do you suppose that is?

I agree exactly. You stated before that maybe "they can't ignore this one". The lack of activity in getting the owner into a cop shop and the slow drip drop of leaking of the offence of allowing minors into the club makes me feel that this is another typical cover up to protect the owner and whoever he has in his pocket.

As licensee he should be the first one in, not apparently waiting to interview employees as a matter of procedure. His name is presumably on the license, so all the bucks stop with him. But as if by magic he is unavailable by cellphone so as yet isn't able to attend a police station.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

If their intention is to press only under age entry as a crime, obviously, the damage limitation has started. Please someone, particularly our new Anti-corruption PM do something more than this.

This is only an initial charge so there is something on record. There are still so many factors to be sorted out before any substantive criminal charges can be filed.

I sincerely hope so, but ............................

[tattoodrob]

There were not hundreds of sparklers. Nor were there a thousand.

There were something more akin to 40, to maybe 60 at best. They were thrown from the stage only to the crowd in the pit. Might look like lots in videos, but it really wasn't as much as it might seem in the videos.

As for the person saying that people would have noticed from outside that the roof was on fire; someone obviously did. Someone ran in and shouted fire, just as the flame started on the ceiling. I'd probably be dead if not for this person.

(If anyone was wondering, I thought it was part of the show. Turned around and topped off my drink, then relaxed to watch the 'realistic indoor fire display'.)

a friend of mine told me there is/was some sort of secret passageway(thru the toilet!!) to get into some part of the disco,as ive never been i cant confirm but if true then this would have really made it difficult to get out!!!!!

if someone saw the fire from outside before people noticed inside then maybe it was started by a firework landing on the roof......whatever it was its a real shame.

[britmaveric]

In the nightclub during the countdown - sparklers being handed out and sparks flying everywhere!!

[onethailand]

You guys are wrong. This fire was broadcast on CNN all over the U.S. on the morning of New Year's Day in Washington, DC. Video and everything.

In fact, I'm looking for a list of those injured or hospitalized. Any help there?

You have no clue. Morning of New Year's Day in Washington DC is afternoon in Thailand - around 20 hours after it happened. They were the slowest of the international media organizations to post any news at all.

You can find a list at http://www.santikaclub.com/webboard/santik...mp;forum_id=600 - probably needs updating but that's the biggest list available at the moment.

Edited January 2, 2009 by onethailand

[aromsia]

There's so much and so many to blame here - so I'll take my own first:

I should rant more often. Maybe it makes no difference - or maybe it does. But allowing the corrupt present system to get away with it? As much my fault as any. Why don't I (as a 'pushy' farang) walk into the safety inspector's office and make a big stink about some place? Becuase I'll be hated for it.. And the outcome will be superficial - I know it - so do others. But that doesn't let me off the hook.

As for the others - Thai and foreign businesspeople here - those of you who paid bribes to get a safety certificate, etc, man do you have some praying to do.

If I was a parent of one of those kids who died, and realized I too was to blame for similar offences in a place that I owned by bribing an official. I think it would be too much to bear.

Buddha knows that what goes around comes around. So do the true believers - and not those business people who wear the right shirts and the right pins of their silk shirts and are just Buddha 'pretenders'. All the money in the world can't buy them salvation - or salvage a guilty soul.

May all Gods shine a light into those who've lost - and forgive those of us who should have done more.

[BeauKarl]

No entertainment establishments can operate in Bangkok without permission of police and all have to pay monthly under-the-counter stipends to police.

Moreover, Santika was actually located in an area which in 2003 was declared a ‘non entertainment zone’ under Bangkok city zoning laws.

The contradictions are indicative of what many people regard as a laissez-faire attitude in Thailand towards public safety.

source

Will Thailand be under pressure if foreign press jumps on it, or will they just not care?

[britmaveric]

^won't care crack down for a few weeks, then all will be forgotten.

[BeauKarl]

There's so much and so many to blame here - so I'll take my own first:

I should rant more often. Maybe it makes no difference - or maybe it does. But allowing the corrupt present system to get away with it? As much my fault as any. Why don't I (as a 'pushy' farang) walk into the safety inspector's office and make a big stink about some place? Becuase I'll be hated for it.. And the outcome will be superficial - I know it - so do others. But that doesn't let me off the hook.

In the best scenario you would be put out of the country, even on TV you can't say what you want, never mind in their office.

[bino]

Update:

Safety measures stepped up after nightclub fire tragedy

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's Minister of Interior has ordered authorities involved to inspect safety measures at entertainment venues in Bangkok and throughout Thailand and outline measures to prevent possible accidents following a New Year fire at a packed Bangkok club which killed 60 partygoers.

Interior minister Chavarat Charnvirakul said during his visit to Chulalongkorn Hospital where blaze victims from the New Year's blaze at Santika Club were being treated that law enforcement in fire safety and the building code must be stepped up.

"We should learn from this tragic event and come up with measures to avoid repeating the same mistakes. There should be random inspections on safety measures to be conducted by Bangkok Metropolitan Administration officials," said the interior minister.

-- TNA/MCOT 2009-01-02

Here's the predictable knee-jerk crackdown and lip service.

[Thai at Heart]

No entertainment establishments can operate in Bangkok without permission of police and all have to pay monthly under-the-counter stipends to police.

Moreover, Santika was actually located in an area which in 2003 was declared a ‘non entertainment zone’ under Bangkok city zoning laws.

The contradictions are indicative of what many people regard as a laissez-faire attitude in Thailand towards public safety.

source

Will Thailand be under pressure if foreign press jumps on it, or will they just not care?

It would take the pressure from the foreign press to be so strong that it provoked an embassy to make a statement. Will an embassy issue a blanket warning about safety in nightclubs? It could happen, but it would cause a stink so high I doubt it.

[Old Man River]

Is it so difficult to find an owner of a nightclub and get him in for questioning?

What makes you think they haven't found him? Just like "THEY" didn't freeze Thaksin's assets for several weeks after seizing power from a majority elected Government by force of arms. Now why do you suppose that is?

I agree exactly. You stated before that maybe "they can't ignore this one". The lack of activity in getting the owner into a cop shop and the slow drip drop of leaking of the offence of allowing minors into the club makes me feel that this is another typical cover up to protect the owner and whoever he has in his pocket.

As licensee he should be the first one in, not apparently waiting to interview employees as a matter of procedure. His name is presumably on the license, so all the bucks stop with him. But as if by magic he is unavailable by cellphone so as yet isn't able to attend a police station.

As it pertains to the fire, the under age charge is meant to keep the owners in the country while authorities go over videos, eye witness reports and forensic evidence. There is no rush to haul these guys in, just keep them close while everything is sorted out. After all, let's face it, the damage is already done. In time we can expect both civil and criminal court cases to be filed over fire safety issues.

Whoever wins the Bangkok Governor election will follow this one to conclusion as it is in their backyard. Politically this will be too important for the next Bangkok Governor to do anything else.

[Thai at Heart]

Is it so difficult to find an owner of a nightclub and get him in for questioning?

What makes you think they haven't found him? Just like "THEY" didn't freeze Thaksin's assets for several weeks after seizing power from a majority elected Government by force of arms. Now why do you suppose that is?

I agree exactly. You stated before that maybe "they can't ignore this one". The lack of activity in getting the owner into a cop shop and the slow drip drop of leaking of the offence of allowing minors into the club makes me feel that this is another typical cover up to protect the owner and whoever he has in his pocket.

As licensee he should be the first one in, not apparently waiting to interview employees as a matter of procedure. His name is presumably on the license, so all the bucks stop with him. But as if by magic he is unavailable by cellphone so as yet isn't able to attend a police station.

As it pertains to the fire, the under age charge is meant to keep the owners in the country while authorities go over videos, eye witness reports and forensic evidence. There is no rush to haul these guys in, just keep them close while everything is sorted out. After all, let's face it, the damage is already done. In time we can expect both civil and criminal court cases to be filed over fire safety issues.

Whoever wins the Bangkok Governor election will follow this one to conclusion as it is in their backyard. Politically this will be too important for the next Bangkok Governor to do anything else.

Of course that is the polite way of doing things. But unfortunately, as of yet, they haven't even officially found him. So, until then, I think the only thing to assume is that he is in Poipet as of 6am this morning or even yesterday. Sorry for being cynical, but, establishing officially where he is should be a rush issue.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[aromsia]

Is it so difficult to find an owner of a nightclub and get him in for questioning?

What makes you think they haven't found him? Just like "THEY" didn't freeze Thaksin's assets for several weeks after seizing power from a majority elected Government by force of arms. Now why do you suppose that is?

I agree exactly. You stated before that maybe "they can't ignore this one". The lack of activity in getting the owner into a cop shop and the slow drip drop of leaking of the offence of allowing minors into the club makes me feel that this is another typical cover up to protect the owner and whoever he has in his pocket.

As licensee he should be the first one in, not apparently waiting to interview employees as a matter of procedure. His name is presumably on the license, so all the bucks stop with him. But as if by magic he is unavailable by cellphone so as yet isn't able to attend a police station.

As it pertains to the fire, the under age charge is meant to keep the owners in the country while authorities go over videos, eye witness reports and forensic evidence. There is no rush to haul these guys in, just keep them close while everything is sorted out. After all, let's face it, the damage is already done. In time we can expect both civil and criminal court cases to be filed over fire safety issues.

Whoever wins the Bangkok Governor election will follow this one to conclusion as it is in their backyard. Politically this will be too important for the next Bangkok Governor to do anything else.

Of course that is the polite way of doing things. But unfortunately, as of yet, they haven't even officially found him. So, until then, I think the only thing to assume is that he is in Poipet as of 6am this morning. Sorry for being cynical, but, establishing officially where he is should be a rush issue.

Perhaps. But I'll bet he's doing a secret deal with the authorities as we write Thai at Heart. If he's rich and influential - he will NEVER go to prison in Thailand. Someone else will do that for him. The sickening part is that people who deserve the least, get the most, in cases like this (the 'deal' makers). Really, really, sickening, no?

Think of it this way...the guy who is on the ropes cause his bar burns down (his fault or not - the police have him by the collar), so he sweats out an under-table deal that lets him walk away - someone else will take the fall. He avoids a 20-guy-to-a-cell prison. But it's probably around 100,000 USD to walk - given the publicity. THEN - some cop or other hi-so authority figure uses that cash to send his own little brats to some international school on that ill-gotten money. Makes me want to p+uke right here and now at the thought of it. I'd sure like to think my negative thoughts are misplaced. But you'd have to be a real optimist with a good argument to make me feel better about this..

So, again, where is he?

Edited January 2, 2009 by aromsia

[Old Man River]

I am equally cynical as it pertains to the owner(s) actually doing jail time anytime soon (I have read that there is more than one owner). I suspect the anticipated civil cases will ultimately be more damaging to the owner(s) than anything else.

[LevelHead]

Very suspicious in my view.

First of all this morning I read China offers skin grafting doctors.

Now they offer 500K US$

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/02...al_30092322.php

Given China is fighting worldwide problems of quality of their goods..............I get the feeling this may have been caused by "Poor Quality Chinese Indoor Fireworks" that have gone wrong and caused the problems. Anyone have any details on the type of fireworks ?

Thats my view, and it may be wrong, but it has to be said their sudden assistance does not always mean its for the good of all people, often they have reasons behind it, wonder if the Chinese Embassy was told it was some dodgy Chinese made fireworks that caused all this ????????

Not make any allegations, however just airing my thoughts.