It has been fashionable for the left wingers to despise Israel and Israelis for many years, but the truth is that it all stems from the same hatred of Jews that has been around for centuries, but in a brand new package. Some folks are too stupid to realize what they are buying into and others are very aware of how much easier it is to spread their hate this way. It is totally PC to hate Israelis and one does not have to admit to being the Jew hating Nazi that they really are.

How Gaza is alienating Britain's Jews and Muslims

As a British Jew, growing antisemitism makes me feel that I am no longer safe

Francesca Segal The Observer, Sunday 11 January 2009

I am a secular, liberal, identifying British Jew. My parents would have taken great pleasure if my acting talents had landed me a starring role in the primary school nativity play; on Christmas Day, we gather at home eating smoked salmon bagels and mince pies. There is no conflict whatsoever between my religion and nationality. On the contrary, they have always supported and echoed one another in terms of the values and moral structure they promote. Judaism has taught me to value liberalism, education, tolerance, family and charity. All Jewish religious services and celebrations include a heartfelt toast to the Queen, because Jews in this country have felt safe, well-assimilated and, most of all, grateful.

In August 2001, I turned 21 and my parents gave me a Star of David necklace. Then a month later, the world changed and my mother, with remarkable foresight, began her campaign to rescind the gift, begging me to take it off because she was frightened it would make me a target in the wake of mounting evidence that fanatical Islamism was tightening its grip on the country. My argument was always the same - when I am no longer safe being identifiably Jewish on the tube, I don't want to live in England.

Now it's happening and I am devastated. It was bluster. I am resolutely, irreducibly British. I love Marmite and Labradors and Sunday lunch. If you step on my foot, I will reflexively apologise. New York, where I will go if I have to leave the UK, does not feel like home for me nor, I suspect, could it ever. But as the British establishment sides with the appeasing of Islamism at home and abroad and as the word Zionism is increasingly bastardised, hijacked by a new definition comprising traditional antisemitic libels and demonising conspiracy theories, and as the liberal media and campaigning groups single out Israel disproportionately among all other countries for criticism, perpetuating the myth that Israel is responsible for mushrooming anti-western sentiment, I feel increasingly that I cannot stay.

My little sister arrived back at her university last week to discover buildings had been daubed with antisemitic graffiti. Across north London, the same scrawled vitriol has been appearing - "Jihad to Israel", frequently accompanied by the message: "Kill Jews."

Hamas' leader Mahmoud Zahar has now declared Jewish children worldwide as "legitimate targets" and although Fleet Street's recent Hamas revisionism made his statement easy to miss, it seems that plenty of others have taken note. The Community Security Trust has dealt with more than 50 antisemitic incidents in the UK in the last two weeks, including an arson attack on a synagogue, a massive spike in violence since the current operation began in Gaza.

"Normally, in that period we'd expect about a dozen," their press officer explained to me, but what a staggering and unacceptable base rate. The average number of antisemitic attacks in a civilised western country should be zero. There has been a sea change in Europe and it's terrifying.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...sm-antisemitism

Are you saying that all people who have problems with Israel and its behaviour are Nazis? (what's that bitnet rule that says the first person to bring up Nazis has basically ended all rational discussion?)

I am saying that a good number of them hate Jews, but are too clever to admit it and a lot of others are "useful idiots" who jump on the bandwagon because it feels so good to be able to have someone to hate that much of society approves of.

Do you really think that most of these people know much about or are overly concerned about the Palestinian people? If folks on the internet are any kind of an example, most of these posters know no more about the history of the Mid East than a few stock lines that they have overheard somewhere or read on some nutty website.

I've been saying it for years. This conflict isn't about the Palestinians. It isn't about land or resources. It's about religion. It's about a large, powerful group of non-Muslims in the middle of a predominately Muslim region of the world.

It wouldn't matter if that area was occupied by Jews, Jains, Jehovahs, Japanese, Hindus, Buddhists or Aztecs. Anything other than a Muslim population, and we'd be looking at the same scenario.

This conflict is a prime example of the old saying "Actions speak louder than words". I keep hearing over and over again about how peaceful and tolerant the Islamic religion is, only to see (on almost a daily basis), the actions that prove otherwise.

Even if, one day, this region was taken over by a predominately Shiite population, there would still be conflict, as the Sunni's probably wouldn't accept them being in control (and visa versa). Drive the Jews out, and their successors would still find reason to quarrel with their neighbours and each other.

When you read reports translated from Arab news organizations, they most often reference "the Jews", not the "Israelis", further proving that this is a religious based conflict, just as many other current conflicts around the world are.

You could level the Amazon forest to make paper for "Mid-East" peace deals that will never work. Israel could pull out of Gaza permanently, vow never to return, give the Palestinian Authority hundreds of millions of dollars in cash, lift the embargoes, free all the (Palestinian) prisoners and do pretty much any and everything else asked of them (short of mass suicide) and guess what the response from the Palestinians would be ?

A barrage of rockets.

I have several opinions on this subject - all mine and disputable by others with more facts at their disposal - but still what I believe.

Palestinians are a race apart. They are not Arab, they are Palestinian and their national language is arabic.

On 9/11 I was in Libya, and while that nation was shocked by the attacks, the Palestinian medical staff at the NOC (National Oil Company) clinic in Tripoli were dancing in the corridors.

After 8/11 just about every palestinian I have spoken to, maybe a couple of hundred in Libya, Saudi and the UAE, have stated as a fact that the Israelis organised 9/11. Few other Middle Eastern people give any credence to this, but Palestinians quote it all the time.

CNN is showing Hamas propoganda films as 'news' items. This is partly the fault of the Israeli authorities, who will not allow them back into Gaza, but nevertheless the clips they show of workers such as ambulance drivers are sponsored by Hamas (These guys would not be allowed to work without demonstrating their support for Hamas). Whether CNN is gullible or has an agenda of supporting Gaza, after it's successful support of Obama I do not know.

Hamas is an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, an organisation formed (and banned) in Egypt which is now headquartered in Syria. It was responsible for the death of Anwar Sadat and many others, including scores of Western tourists.

All this nonsense about 'Give us back our land' that is heard is just that - nonsense. Most Palestinians prior to 1948 had no land - they rented faem land from a few (very few) big landowners, like the Mufti of Jerusalem. They were always subsistence farmers living on dried out, worn out land surrounded by marshes. The Zionists came in the beginning of the 20th century to join the Jews already living in Trans-Jordan. They drained the marshes and cultivated their new land far more efficiently than the Palestinians. Therefore they prospered more and incurred the jealousy of said Palestinians.

We in UK have the long experience of Ireland / Northern Ireland - where children have been inculcated with poisonous ideas from birth and I think that even now there is still a mental block in listening to the other side's point of view. The same is happening in the Arab world in general and in Palestine (especially Gaza) in particular. This will last for generations and while there is so much poverty in Gaza there is no way to solve it. Bring in industry, rebuild the area with reasonable housing, independent education, their own port and energy supplies and there may be a chance. While the religion dominates and the pocert continues - no chance at all.

Israel must also look for a different path - while retaining a strong defence force they must also put their case clearly and get past the blocked ears of the majority of the listening people.

End of rant for now - will return in a couple of days.

I never knew many Jews. None lived in my big suburb where I grew up, or they had converted to Unitarian or Quaker. I was carefully taught not to be prejudiced. When I dated a girl at uni with a Jewish last name, it never dawned on me. But I knew my black skinned date was African-American. In the non-prejudicial USAF, no mention of Jews that I recall. At university, in my Baptist preacher-boy days,we witnessed to Bob, a New Jersey Jew who got saved in a revival preached by Angel or Homer Martinez. I went to San Antonio and bought a marked Bible from the offices of the Christian Jew Radio Show. Met a practicing Jew in Brownsville in 2001. That's about it. I cannot tell Yiddish jokes, or tell a mishugganah from a hannukah.

Then I met ultra-conservative Christian pacifists who risked their lives to help make peace in the Occupied Territories. Heard enough stories about Zionist settlers stoning Muslims and Christians.My lady friends almost got killed at a mosque in Hebron, protecting nonviolent Palestinian Muslims from being fired upon by Israeli police or soldiers. My buddy went to Iraq before and during the war. They helped start a Muslim Peace Team. Our Christian team members were held captive by Muslim terrorists, and the American Quaker, Tom Fox, was martyred. But our team members ask that the killers be given mercy.

So, is it possible to criticize some actions by some Israeli officials and some Zionists, without being anti-Semitic? Can Christians love both Jews and Muslims? Are peace, justice, and love now politically incorrect and sinful?

So, is it possible to criticize some actions by some Israeli officials and some Zionists, without being anti-Semitic? Can Christians love both Jews and Muslims? Are peace, justice, and love now politically incorrect and sinful?

That is the civilised way to approach life, and would that the entire world population would so do.

When I was working in Iran (Shah's time - before Jimmy Carter shafted him) there were Muslims, Armenian Christians, other Christians, Jews, Bahai, Zoroastrians and other faiths living side-by-side with very little prejudice (on the surface).

Comes the revolution and in Shiraz, where I was based, the mob pulled the family of an Army general out of their house and beat them to death. They were Bahai. The general was shor as he arrived home.

We had Jewish friends there who ran a large grocery store. It was fire-bombed twice in a week. They were lucky, they fled to Israel. Many are still in Iran, not allowed out, not allowed to work in other than some poorlu=paid jobs and every so often some are seized and put on show trials for 'spying for Israel'. The Armenians are tolerated, because they make the country operate - they are good managers. But many of my friends are now in UK - Armenian and Irani.

I don't know of any Zoroastrians, but their faith is far older than Islam, so they may be OK, whereas the Bahai are considered to be apostates from Islam and therefore to be killed. Lovely religion - Islam.

Adultery - kill them

Robbery - chop off a limb

Mind of your own - kill them

Bugger a young boy - twenty lashes

Rape a young girl - nothing

Divorce - A man can divorce his wife - the woman cannot divorce the husband

Children's custody - if the father wants them - he gets them

Divorced woman - you see them begging in the streets, because the husband will not support them and neither will their own family - dowry is with husband.

I could go on so long .....

But in a one-on-one situation with many of my co-workers they will say the same. They just will not speak out in public against their mullahs / imams.

I never knew many Jews. None lived in my big suburb where I grew up, or they had converted to Unitarian or Quaker. I was carefully taught not to be prejudiced. When I dated a girl at uni with a Jewish last name, it never dawned on me. But I knew my black skinned date was African-American. In the non-prejudicial USAF, no mention of Jews that I recall. At university, in my Baptist preacher-boy days,we witnessed to Bob, a New Jersey Jew who got saved in a revival preached by Angel or Homer Martinez. I went to San Antonio and bought a marked Bible from the offices of the Christian Jew Radio Show. Met a practicing Jew in Brownsville in 2001. That's about it. I cannot tell Yiddish jokes, or tell a mishugganah from a hannukah.

There is very little prejudice against Jews in America other than among racist nuts like the KKK and neo-Nazis, but they are a tiny fraction of the population and don't really count.

However, in many parts of Europe it is still common and growing along with Muslim immigrants. It has helped fuel their hatred for Israel and support for the Palestinians.

Europe Re-imports Jew Hatred

The mythical Arab Street now reaches deep into Paris, London, Berlin and Madrid.

By DANIEL SCHWAMMENTHALGive Giancarlo Desiderati credit for his unintellectual honesty. While most left-wing detractors of Israel claim their animosity toward the Jewish state has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, the head of a small Italian union, Flaica-Uniti-Cub, wasted no time with such sophism. Having long called for a boycott of Israeli goods, Mr. Desiderati last week made the logical next step. "Do not buy anything from businesses run by the Jewish community," his group's Web site urged Italians.

Jews around Europe are increasingly under attack since Israel decided two weeks ago to defend itself after years of rocket fire at its civilian population. There have been arson attempts on synagogues in Britain, Belgium and Germany. Police last week arrested Muslim protesters who wanted to enter the Jewish quarter in Antwerp. Several Danish schools with large Muslim student bodies say they won't enroll Jewish kids because they can't guarantee the children's safety. In France, a group of teenagers attacked a 14-year-old girl last week, calling her "dirty Jew" while kicking her.

At rallies in Germany and the Netherlands over the past two weeks, protesters shouted, "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the Gas." In Amsterdam, Socialist lawmaker Harry van Bommel and Greta Duisenberg, widow of the first European Central Bank president, marched at the front of one such "peace" demonstration. They didn't join in the background chorus calling for another Holocaust. Instead, they chanted, "Intifada, Intifada, Free Palestine." Mr. Van Bommel later insisted this wasn't a call for Jewish blood but for "civil disobedience" -- a laughable defense given that terrorists during the last intifada murdered more than 1,000 Israelis.

Most of the anti-Jewish violence and protests in Europe come from immigrants. In what may have been a Freudian recognition of the changing face of Europe, CNN two weeks ago used footage of anti-Israeli protesters in London in a report about the growing anger in the "Arab and Muslim world." The mythical Arab Street now reaches deep into Paris, London, Berlin and Madrid.

After a burning car was rammed into a gate outside a synagogue in Toulouse last week, President Nicolas Sarkozy issued a statement that was as morally confused as his judgment of Israel's Gaza offensive. Mr. Sarkozy, who condemned both Hamas terror and Israel's attempt to stop it, also blurred the distinction between the victims and perpetrators of anti-Semitism in France.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123180033807075069.html

It's true that there isn't a lot of prejudice against Jews, but there is a fair amount of distrust.

The thing I can't quite understand is how long people would tolerate someone lobbing bombs into your backyard before you retaliated?

I usually find myself being against Israel, but in this case.....

In my opinion, there is far more prejudice in the world against Arabs than Jews. I have seen vast and overt prejudice against Arabs, but being an American, I have not seen nearly as much against Jews.

So I do not buy into the notion that being anti-Israeli is a result of religious prejudice. Is anti-Venezulan sentiment in the US a result of being prejudice against Roman Catholics? Anti-Russian sentiment a result of being prejudice against the Russian Orthodox Church?

There have been centuries of anti-semitism in world history. This is pretty much undisputed. But for ardent Israel-supporters to decry any criticism of Israel as "Jew hating" is rather disingenous.

Personally, I don't hate Israel. I have spent time there, and I both admire and don't care for many aspects of the country, just as I do with many countries. And I agree with the nation's right to defend itself. What I really dislike, though, is the fact that the US is seemingly in the pocket of Israel, and it marches lockstep with Israel even when doing so works against US interests. The US needs to work for its own interests, not for that of any another nation.

bonobo Posted Today, 2009-01-18 19:48:30

I do not buy into the notion that being anti-Israeli is a result of religious prejudice

I would be more convinced if you used a word or phrase like "sometimes" or "not all of the time" when dismissing one of the main reasons that Israel has so many enemies. It seems silly to me to dismiss the probability that many of those who hate Israel, hate all Jews. There are an awful lot of people around the world who do not make any attempt to hide it.

Why would America be willing to ignore its self-interests unless Israel is such a valuable allie that it is somehow worth it ?

Please don't tell me that it is the magic, mysterious and ultra-powerful Israel Lobby, because I just don't buy it.

bonobo Posted Today, 2009-01-18 19:48:30

I do not buy into the notion that being anti-Israeli is a result of religious prejudice

I would be more convinced if you used a word or phrase like "sometimes" or "not all of the time" when dismissing one of the main reasons that Israel has so many enemies. It seems silly to me to dismiss the probability that many of those who hate Israel, hate all Jews. There are an awful lot of people around the world who do not make any attempt to hide it.

Why would America be willing to ignore its self-interests unless Israel is such a valuable allie that it is somehow worth it ?

Please don't tell me that it is the magic, mysterious and ultra-powerful Israel Lobby, because I just don't buy it.

I am sure that there are some anti-semitics who hate Israel because of that. However, it is my point that more people are prejudice against Muslims, and Arabs in particular, than Jews. Take here in Thailand, for example. Depsite this country being 7% Muslim, I have never heard anti-Jewish sentiment, but I have heard Anti-arab sentiment many, many times.

I am not sure why you keep downgrading the Israeli lobby. It is hardly magic or mysterious. Their offices are cleary marked, and they make no secret of their activities. In fact, I think they spread their activities and trumpet their successes to keep other politicians from crossing their purposes.

And yes, this lobby is the active arm of why America ignores its own self-interests at times. That and the fact that by-and-large, the Jewish sector of the population, along with the Christian conservatives, blindly push for a complete support of all things Israel.

A "valuable ally?" Possibly. But how often have Arabs spies been arrested in the US? And how often have Israeli spies been arrested? Of course, Israeli spies are quickly sent back to Israel while Arabs fighters are held indefinitely in Gitmo.

I am not "down-grading” the Israeli Lobby. I am pointing out that a lot of people exaggerate its power to make them look bad or simply to explain the unexplainable.

As far as spies go, do you think for one second that we do not have spies in Israel? It is a pretty open secret that everybody spies on everybody and that it is most unlikely Israel would ever publicly arrest one of ours.

You claim that most American Jews "blindly" support Israel, but most American Jews are liberals and many of them criticize Israel along the party line. Jews do a lot of arguing and many disagree on Israel. I just don't see the US "ignoring its own interests" because of Jewish opinion - even if they did agree on anything.

The worst crimes commited against Jews have been perpetrated by Germany and it's allies during WWII. Also many horrible things happened to Jews during the Spanish Inquisition. So it's the Christians that have commited the gravest crimes against Jews, and not Muslims.

I find the term Anti Semitic to be misused. Arabs and Israelis are both Semitic peoples. So how has the word Anti Semitic come to be used for Israelis/Jews only? The same for the Holocaust, did only Jews die or did intellectuals,Professors,Gay people,undesirables also die in concentration camps?

The number of Jews who were kept in concentation camps and killed way outnumbered the other groups who were murdered. The Holocaust was mostly about Jewish genocide.

The number of Jews who were kept in concentation camps and killed way outnumbered the other groups who were murdered. The Holocaust was mostly about Jewish genocide.

Granted that the most severe victim of the Holocaust were the Jews. However, 600,000 Gypsies were also murdered, and that number is not miniscule.  When peple speak about the Holocaust it is almost exclusively about the Jewish genocide, and perhaps even about the 10,000 or so homosexuals being murdered (the 17Sers), but rarely are Gypsies discussed.

The number of Jews who were kept in concentation camps and killed way outnumbered the other groups who were murdered. The Holocaust was mostly about Jewish genocide.

Granted that the most severe victim of the Holocaust were the Jews. However, 600,000 Gypsies were also murdered, and that number is not miniscule.  When peple speak about the Holocaust it is almost exclusively about the Jewish genocide, and perhaps even about the 10,000 or so homosexuals being murdered (the 17Sers), but rarely are Gypsies discussed.

At least the non-homosexual survivors of the concentration camps were released at the end of the war. Many homosexuals were put back into prison using Paragraph 175 of the German Penal Code to finish their sentences.

At least the non-homosexual survivors of the concentration camps were released at the end of the war. Many homosexuals were put back into prison using Paragraph 175 of the German Penal Code to finish their sentences.

That is simply AMAZING, but in a bad way!

The number of Jews who were kept in concentation camps and killed way outnumbered the other groups who were murdered. The Holocaust was mostly about Jewish genocide.

Granted that the most severe victim of the Holocaust were the Jews. However, 600,000 Gypsies were also murdered, and that number is not miniscule.  When peple speak about the Holocaust it is almost exclusively about the Jewish genocide, and perhaps even about the 10,000 or so homosexuals being murdered (the 17Sers), but rarely are Gypsies discussed.

At least the non-homosexual survivors of the concentration camps were released at the end of the war. Many homosexuals were put back into prison using Paragraph 175 of the German Penal Code to finish their sentences.

Is that a fact?  I am not doubting it as I know nothing to the contrary.  But how could they do that? When people were put in the concentration camps, were they given sentences of a certain amount of time?

I have to agree with Ulysses there, this is pretty much amazing, and in a bad way.

At least the non-homosexual survivors of the concentration camps were released at the end of the war. Many homosexuals were put back into prison using Paragraph 175 of the German Penal Code to finish their sentences.

Is that a fact?  I am not doubting it as I know nothing to the contrary.  But how could they do that? When people were put in the concentration camps, were they given sentences of a certain amount of time?

I have to agree with Ulysses there, this is pretty much amazing, and in a bad way.

Agreed, especially when you consider who was running the country after the war (but back in those days, a lot of things were done that would now be considered wrong by today's standards).

Morbid curiosity perhaps, but were non-Jews also tattooed in such a way as to identify why they were in the camp(s) ?

Being a member of a victim race/religion previously; does not entitle you to brutally victimize others.

It does when "the others" purposely target your civilians to blow up with bombs and rockets and have been warned to stop it over and over again.

The Palestinians freely elected Hamas to lead them and they led them right into a sh*tstorm and did not accomplish anything other than completely destroying Gaza.

It just shows; Be careful who you vote for!

From Wiki on Paragraph 175:

"In contradistinction to normal police, the Gestapo were authorized to take gay men into preventive detention (Schutzhaft) of arbitrary duration without an accusation (or even after an acquittal). This was often the fate of so-called "repeat offenders": at the end of their sentences, they were not freed but sent for additional "reeducation" (Umerziehung) in a concentration camp. Only about 40 percent of these pink triangle prisoners – whose numbers amounted to an estimated 10,000 – survived the camps. Some of them, after their release by the Allied Forces, were placed back in prison, because they had not yet finished court-mandated terms of imprisonment for homosexual acts."

They were also refused reparations when the war finished.

It does when "the others" purposely target your civilians to blow up with bombs and rockets and have been warned to stop it over and over again.

The Palestinians freely elected Hamas to lead them and they led them right into a sh*tstorm and did not accomplish anything other than completely destroying Gaza.

It just shows; Be careful who you vote for!

The children who lie dead did not vote for anyone. Listen to yourself very carefully, and consider if you have reason to be that smug or not.

There is plenty of evidence that Hamas purposely caused deaths among the Palestinian population of Gaza and they did not care what age or sex they were. They were happy to kill their own people - including children - for PR purposes. Blame them!

There is plenty of evidence that Hamas purposely caused deaths among the Palestinian population of Gaza and they did not care what age or sex they were. They were happy to kill their own people - including children - for PR purposes. Blame them!

Prove it!

I have - over and over. I suspected that you only read your own posts.

FROM WIKIPEDIA

Recent research has traced the sentiments expressed in the poem to speeches given by Niemöller in 1946.

Nonetheless, the poem's wording remains controversial, both in terms of

its provenance, and the substance and order of the groups that are

mentioned in its many versions. While Niemöller's published 1946

speeches mention Communists, the incurably ill, Jews or Jehovah's

Witnesses (depending on which speech), and people in occupied

countries; the 1955 text, a paraphrase by a German professor in an

interview, lists: Communists, Socialists, "the schools, the press, the

Jews, and so on," and ends with "the Church." However, as cited by

Richard John Neuhaus in the November 2001 issue of First Things, when

"asked in 1971 about the correct version of the quote, Niemöller said he was not quite sure when he had said the famous words but, if people insist upon citing them, he preferred this version:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

Back on topic:

How To Avoid Re-posting from Neo-Nazi, Ku Klux Klan or White Power Web Sites.

A word of warning: modern day neo-Nazis, Holocaust revisionists, White Power freaks and certified Jew haters do not always advertise their loathings so conspicuously, they have learnt to dress up their hatreds and make them more acceptable, more palatable to the undiscerning reader.

So initially you won't necessarily see "we love Hitler" plastered all over their web sites, rather they will push a few dissident Jewish anti-Zionists in the hope that it fools the gullible, and make their diet of vile anti-Jewish racism somehow more palatable.

Don't be fooled.

http://jennadelich.wordpress.com/2008/08/2...ower-web-sites/