Financial Crisis

[Wrong Turn]

Dexia continues to make the news...

Yes, Dexia has been in the news. There are some European banks that may be in the news soon. Could be just a matter of time.

BTW: Today Italy was downgraded by Moody from Aa2 to A2 with negative outlook

Not a good trend. Whatever happens in Europe - I think we know - will be interesting. I mean, the results will be interesting.

Finally "The Bernanke" today admits US economy is 'close to faltering...No?

Bernanke has been on the mainstream media too much. He's the Chairman of a "private" bank. I saw part of his testimony and nothing new was really said. Lots of talk. Little action by those who should be doing something (the potus and Congress).

[Jingthing]

BTW, Joseph E. Stiglitz of Spend, Spend, Spend is associating himself with the OCCUPY movement, the leftist answer (finally!) to the reactionary tea party, by doing teach ins.

[flying]

Bernanke has been on the mainstream media too much. He's the Chairman of a "private" bank. I saw part of his testimony and nothing new was really said. Lots of talk. Little action by those who should be doing something (the potus and Congress).

Yes I agree with everything you stated....

But especially this Bernanke deal...

If I were still a markets person I think I would just choose any shorting vehicle each time he

is scheduled to speak. After all there is nothing good he can say & as you said nothing new now or in the

foreseeable future. So to that end seems like a nice short signal.

Lastly yes the potus & friends have nothing to say nor the tools to act.

[serenitynow]

BTW, Joseph E. Stiglitz of Spend, Spend, Spend is associating himself with the OCCUPY movement, the leftist answer (finally!) to the reactionary tea party, by doing teach ins.

Spending is a way to come out of a recession caused by lack of demand. That is if it is businesses or individuals doing the spending. Governments on the other hand create less than $1 in GDP for each dollar they spend. It is an exercise in futility and is like drilling holes into the hull o0f an already sinking boat. There aren't any easy answers here. It's going to takes YEARS to wash out this debt, which is what is ailing the economy (of most nations)

I would be in favor of government spending on infrastructure projects however (assuming they cut spending elsewhere, or raised taxes) if it is incorporated with some kind of WPA type work program for those who have lost public benefits. Better to put people to work than extend benefits into the indefinite future. That would require a repeal of the Davis Bacon Act however and I doubt the current administration or unions would go along with that.

Edited October 5, 2011 by serenitynow

[cloudhopper]

Spend Spend Spend = Borrow Borrow Borrow

A technology perfected to facilitate mass raping and pillaging forward in time.

Stiglitz really is a genius. Except for not having a clue about the what happens after that part...

[cloudhopper]

Just another case of government corruption regulatory capture.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/zero-hedge-kindly-requests-immediate-resignation-mary-schapiro-gross-breach-professional-respon

[serenitynow]

Just another case of government corruption regulatory capture.

http://www.zerohedge...essional-respon

Sue the SEC? Since when can anyone sue the US Govt. ?

[midas]

brilliant rant !

Occupy Wall Street Protester End the Fed

Edited October 5, 2011 by midas

[Jingthing]

That's a tea party pooper/Ron Paul groupie. Nothing to do with the leftist populist message from the Occupy movement. Wrong rally. No, right wingers, you don't get TWO populist movements.

[serenitynow]

brilliant rant !

Occupy Wall Street Protester End the Fed

!

Testify brother! Gotta say I love that kid. Yeah, that's a Left Wing movement JingThing, sure it is. Get a grip!

Edited October 5, 2011 by serenitynow

[midas]

That's a tea party pooper/Ron Paul groupie. Nothing to do with the leftist populist message from the Occupy movement. Wrong rally. No, right wingers, you don't get TWO populist movements.

What exactly is the leftist populist message

Everything that young guy said was crystal clear truth. why as an American citizen

are you happy to see your currency debased by you calling for more spending

and more printing ?

[midas]

brilliant rant !

Occupy Wall Street Protester End the Fed

!

Testify brother! Gotta say I love that kid. Yeah, that's a Left Wing movement JingThing, sure it is. Get a grip!

yes indeed! and people had better start paying attention and reacting pretty quickly to what

that kid was saying because it seems TPTB are not only proposing to levy more taxes on Americans to pay for some nebulous job creation plan but in addition to that apparently you're all scheduled to bailout Europe as well !

Like I said before my god Americans must have very deep pockets

Euro Jumps As US Taxpayers Are Latest Source Of European Bailout According To Freshest Set Of Bailout Rumors

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/euro-jumps-us-taxpayer-are-latest-source-european-bailout-according-freshest-set-bailout-rumors

[serenitynow]

That's a tea party pooper/Ron Paul groupie. Nothing to do with the leftist populist message from the Occupy movement. Wrong rally. No, right wingers, you don't get TWO populist movements.

!

When you heard Micheal Moore say "millions have suffered by the decisions of the people in these buildings" didn't you once give a thought abought those who were charged to regulate those people?

That the people that inhabit Wall street are liars, charlatans and thieves has been well known for well over a century. It is the the integrityy of their overseers that has broken down and that is the true messaage of this movement. You're not going to find an answer on the Left or the Right. The answer lies in those persons and institutions with integrity. People who are vested in this system don't care about integrity, They just wants their stocks to go up again.

[midas]

That's a tea party pooper/Ron Paul groupie. Nothing to do with the leftist populist message from the Occupy movement. Wrong rally. No, right wingers, you don't get TWO populist movements.

!

When you heard Micheal Moore say "millions have suffered by the decisions of the people in these buildings" didn't you once give a thought abought those who were charged to regulate those people?

That the people that inhabit Wall street are liars, charlatans and thieves has been well known for well over a century. It is the the integrityy of their overseers that has broken down and that is the true messaage of this movement. You're not going to find an answer on the Left or the Right. The answer lies in those persons and institutions with integrity. People who are vested in this system don't care about integrity, They just wants their stocks to go up again.

No but serenity what I find absolutely hilarious is Jingthing claiming that Michael Moore is some beacon of the leftist movement . It's hilarious that a guy with a net worth of $50 million can stand in front of a group of people with a straight face and hypnotise them to the extent that he can even get them to repeat his words while he is standing directly in front of someone who is screaming “ tax the rich ”………….. excuse me

words are cheap aren't they?

Edited October 5, 2011 by midas

[serenitynow]

That's a tea party pooper/Ron Paul groupie. Nothing to do with the leftist populist message from the Occupy movement. Wrong rally. No, right wingers, you don't get TWO populist movements.

What exactly is the leftist populist message

Everything that young guy said was crystal clear truth. why as an American citizen

are you happy to see your currency debased by you calling for more spending

and more printing ?

Especially as an EXPAT American citizen! I guess he thinks itr will make his stocks go up even more than his currency falls. Of course that doesn;t take into account the tax bit which will put him underwater. Blind ideolgy is not good for anyone.

[midas]

Especially as an EXPAT American citizen! I guess he thinks itr will make his stocks go up even more than his currency falls. Of course that doesn;t take into account the tax bit which will put him underwater. Blind ideolgy is not good for anyone.

it's not only the tax bit that will put him under water.........

[midas]

That's a tea party pooper/Ron Paul groupie. Nothing to do with the leftist populist message from the Occupy movement. Wrong rally. No, right wingers, you don't get TWO populist movements.

As a supporter of the left-wing movement Jingthing, one would assume you support the principle of power to the people?

In fact I just read this comment by someone who seems to agree with you on another website which should warm your heart

" Most of the Wall Street occupiers are so far to the left that they can easily be called communists. The presence of the execrable Worker’s World Party, who are still unrepentant Stalinists, is the prime indicator. There were plenty of hammer and sickle flags in Tahrir Square and the media didn’t report that either."

So in that case, do you support the strategy Max Keiser ( who is also a strong supporter of Occupier Wall Street) discusses in this very short video how hedge fund managers and fund managers are now also starting to join the Occupy Wall Street movement and they are indulging in what could be described as “ reverse capitalism ” -described as " taking the tools of capitalism and putting it it in the hands of the people?"

Of course the big Wall Street bankers will suffer as a result of this strategy so do you support that kind of action

by renegade hedge fund managers and fund managers Jingthing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H3O_xUx052o

Edited October 5, 2011 by midas

[Jingthing]

Midas, I don't think I would personally support that kind of action. Personally, I am not that radical. In my view people favoring closing the federal reserve and going to a gold standard are certifiable. This article better reflects my more rational point of view authored by an esteemed democratic socialist.

The root cause of our problems today? RONALD REAGAN!

Like I said before, we need an FDR, not a Ron Paul.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rescuing-america-from-wall-street/2011/10/04/gIQAJGezLL_story.html

At the moment, this fledgling movement is awash in a range of demands. Occupy Wall Street has tended toward the amorphous, expressing a generalized rage at economic inequality and financial hegemony. The New Bottom Line groups, and the wonks of the anti-bank left, have more concrete demands, including modifications and cancellations to student and housing debt, a financial-transaction tax, and the reinstitution of the 1932 Glass-Stea­gall Act (which would make garden-variety banking safer and less speculative by rebuilding the wall between commercial and investment banking).

That the proposed reforms are all over the map is understandable given the enormity of the problem. As finance has become a larger and larger part of the U.S. economy in recent decades, the U.S. economy has grown more and more dysfunctional. At Wall Street’s prompting, the New Deal’s constraints on finance were loosened in the 1980s and ’90s, enabling banks to grow huge by speculating with other people’s money and by restructuring the economy so that it ran on credit and debt.

In any case, while it is obvious this Occupy movement is in the process of being baked, I can guarantee you this is a movement of the LEFT and that Ron Paul fanatic ranter got off at the wrong stop.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[midas]

In my view people favoring closing the federal reserve and going to a gold standard are certifiable.

But you can also say the same thing about people who seem happy about keeping the Federal reserve as it is? Based on current policies will you be happy to see your hard earned money turn into one of these?

Edited October 5, 2011 by midas

[Jingthing]

In my view people favoring closing the federal reserve and going to a gold standard are certifiable.

But you can also say the same thing about people who seem happy about keeping the Federal reserve as it is? Based on current policies will you be happy to see your hard earned money turn into one of these?

No, you can say that.

[serenitynow]

Midas, I don't think I would personally support that kind of action. Personally, I am not that radical. In my view people favoring closing the federal reserve and going to a gold standard are certifiable. This article better reflects my more rational point of view authored by an esteemed democratic socialist.

Like I said before, we need an FDR, not a Ron Paul.

http://www.washingto...ezLL_story.html

At the moment, this fledgling movement is awash in a range of demands. Occupy Wall Street has tended toward the amorphous, expressing a generalized rage at economic inequality and financial hegemony. The New Bottom Line groups, and the wonks of the anti-bank left, have more concrete demands, including modifications and cancellations to student and housing debt, a financial-transaction tax, and the reinstitution of the 1932 Glass-Stea­gall Act (which would make garden-variety banking safer and less speculative by rebuilding the wall between commercial and investment banking).

That the proposed reforms are all over the map is understandable given the enormity of the problem. As finance has become a larger and larger part of the U.S. economy in recent decades, the U.S. economy has grown more and more dysfunctional. At Wall Street’s prompting, the New Deal’s constraints on finance were loosened in the 1980s and ’90s, enabling banks to grow huge by speculating with other people’s money and by restructuring the economy so that it ran on credit and debt.

In any case, while it is obvious this Occupy movement is in the process of being baked, I can guarantee you this is a movement of the LEFT and that Ron Paul fanatic ranter got off at the wrong stop.

I like you JingThing, that's why I'm going to pass on to you the best piece of advice I ever got. I was a young 3rd mate just out of the academy. I got a job on a reefer ship running from Seattle, up through the inside passage of Canada, to Dutch Harbor, Alaska in the Aleutian Chain and on to Vladivostok, Russia. I'd been trained in everything but knew practically nothing. Going up through the Inside Passgae the first time in Canada I kept my head buried in the radar, as these were extremely narrow channels and i always wanted to be cognizant of just how far away i was from running the ship aground. In the middle of one of the harriest passages, and one with strong currents against us , and of course there was oncoming traffic, I had my head buried in the radar figuring solutions for all exigencies. While i'm trembling under the weight of my responsibity the Captain comes up and slaps me in the head. He says to me "why the hell don't you just look out the windows". I've never forgotten that lesson and It applies to every other thing I've encountered in this life. No reason to make things more complicated than they are. You can learn alot by just looking out the window.

[Jingthing]

Looking out the window on Wall Street these days, I see the birth of the biggest populist leftist movement since the great depression. What do you see? A clone of the reactionary anti-poor people tea party? People clamoring to go back to the gold standard? Hilarious! Time to see an ophthalmologist, mate.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[serenitynow]

Looking out the window on Wall Street these days, I see the birth of the biggest populist leftist movement since the great depression. What do you see? A clone of the reactionary anti-poor people tea party? People clamoring to go back to the gold standard? Hilarious! Time to see an ophthalmologist, mate.

For Christ's sake man, stop thinking of things in terms of Left and Right. Try starting to think about things in terms of Right and Wrong. You're fuc_king hopeless. I never saw anyone so willingly ignorant in my life. Gold? Who said anything about Gold? You make yourself a laughing-stock with your spewing out the last thing you read in some magazine. Even intelligent leftists don't feel as you do.. Maybe you should go back to the Farang Pub threads.

Here are some intelligent leftists. None are as ill informed as you seem to be. They make many good points, but still they won't get all they want, nor should they. But I agree with them in the main.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/wrong-economy-fix-181308391.html

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/used-us-tom-friedman-rx-america-groove-back-194021144.html

[Jingthing]

The kid in the rant, which you said

Gotta say I love that kid.

said A LOT about gold. He wants to go back the gold standard and end the federal reserve. Even Ron Paul isn't so crazy as to think you can just end the federal reserve without instantly crushing the global economy.

You might want to read what you write before tossing the insults.

[serenitynow]

The kid in the rant, which you said

Gotta say I love that kid.

said A LOT about gold. He wants to go back the gold standard and end the federal reserve. Even Ron Paul isn't so crazy as to think you can just end the federal reserve without instantly crushing the global economy.

You might want to read what you write before tossing the insults.

I like him for speaking from his heart. He's absolutely right about the global banking system and the way money is created, I only disagree about a Gold standard because it is not feasable given the size of the global economy. Come on. don't pull a Clinton on me and parse everything into meaninglessness. You're not a "big picture" guy are you?

I've followed your comments for years now. You seem to be in favor of anything that might make your stocks go up again. Have you never considered that if that were to happen your currency might fall even further?

Edit: Anyway, this isn"t the place for political rants, If you think it's important enough, maybe you could suggest to a moderator to start an American politics thread.

Edited October 5, 2011 by serenitynow

[waza]

The kid in the rant, which you said

Gotta say I love that kid.

said A LOT about gold. He wants to go back the gold standard and end the federal reserve. Even Ron Paul isn't so crazy as to think you can just end the federal reserve without instantly crushing the global economy.

You might want to read what you write before tossing the insults.

I like him for speaking from his heart. He's absolutely right about the global banking system and the way money is created, I only disagree about a Gold standard because it is not feasable given the size of the global economy. Come on. don't pull a Clinton on me and parse everything into meaninglessness. You're not a "big picture" guy are you?

I've followed your comments for years now. You seem to be in favor of anything that might make your stocks go up again. Have you never considered that if that were to happen your currency might fall even further?

Edit: Anyway, this isn"t the place for political rants, If you think it's important enough, maybe you could suggest to a moderator to start an American politics thread.

I will never understand why Americans are afriad of concepts like Liberalism and socialism. This finacial crisis was created by rampant unfettered capitalism that manipulated the market and created the massive inequity in wealth ownership. While that wealth is hoarded there will continue to a lack of liquidity to finance a resurgent in manufacturing to Americans back to work. Its time for a Robin Hood to do the dirty work.

[serenitynow]

The kid in the rant, which you said

Gotta say I love that kid.

said A LOT about gold. He wants to go back the gold standard and end the federal reserve. Even Ron Paul isn't so crazy as to think you can just end the federal reserve without instantly crushing the global economy.

You might want to read what you write before tossing the insults.

I like him for speaking from his heart. He's absolutely right about the global banking system and the way money is created, I only disagree about a Gold standard because it is not feasable given the size of the global economy. Come on. don't pull a Clinton on me and parse everything into meaninglessness. You're not a "big picture" guy are you?

I've followed your comments for years now. You seem to be in favor of anything that might make your stocks go up again. Have you never considered that if that were to happen your currency might fall even further?

Edit: Anyway, this isn"t the place for political rants, If you think it's important enough, maybe you could suggest to a moderator to start an American politics thread.

I will never understand why Americans are afriad of concepts like Liberalism and socialism. This finacial crisis was created by rampant unfettered capitalism that manipulated the market and created the massive inequity in wealth ownership. While that wealth is hoarded there will continue to a lack of liquidity to finance a resurgent in manufacturing to Americans back to work. Its time for a Robin Hood to do the dirty work.

While that's a lovely fairy tale you've spun, you ought to know there are liberal and socialist elements in the American political system. There are also deeply entrenched private sector interests. Let's take universal health care for instance. It's a worthy goal and something that any relatively rich and enlightened society ought to strive for. and God knows not the English or Canadian models either. The problem is there's no f'ing leadership in America. Those who call themselves "liberals" are beholden to all the companies that have provided health services heretofore (they love those campaign contributions). Instead they should be telling them that in 10 years you'll all be out of business, and the sooner you turn over your facilities to the government the better the price we're willing to give you. Almost nothing the America bashers ever say affects me as they usually come from a country even more berfeft of liberty and common sense, but when they disparage our medical system I can't do anything but agree. That said, on the high end, it's still one of the 2 or 3 best places to seek care if you're dying.

Edited October 5, 2011 by serenitynow

[flying]

Edit: Anyway, this isn"t the place for political rants, If you think it's important enough, maybe you could suggest to a moderator to start an American politics thread.

Thank you

We have had this thread going for years now & it is the Financial Crisis Thread.

The Worldwide crisis to which yes the occupation is incidental.

Some have a habit of OT spamming everything into a left/right diversion & will eventually get the thread closed.

That dog wont hunt so no use in trying. Left/Right is all it knows & shouts

Edited October 5, 2011 by flying

[Jingthing]

The consensus here seems to be Ron Paulian demonization of the federal reserve. That is a political position about economics, like it or not, historically linked the radical right wing. You may not like labels but if you are favoring positions like that, you're stuck with them.

http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/Federal_Reserve.html

Also --

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/152192/5_reasons_progressives_should_treat_ron_paul_with_extreme_caution_--_%27cuddly%27_libertarian_has_some_very_dark_politics?page=entire

No way can you divorce discussion of the economics of the financial crisis from politics.

This new, yes left wing, Occupy movement. Would it need to exist without the effects of the financial crisis?

Edited October 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[flying]

The consensus here seems to be ......

This new, yes left wing, Occupy movement........

Again this is the WORLDWIDE financial crisis thread

I will go start a soapbox/thread for you

You show your total lack of knowledge & would like to degrade this long running thread to a

political rhetoric thread.

Go do it in the new Occupy as a means to financial reform thread

Edited October 5, 2011 by flying