Thailand Elite Card Is Abandoned

[mrtoad]

I had read the letter from Elite to its member regarding the extension of the 5 years visa and did have an opportunity to talk to reliable source of Elite card today at their office so I asked the question. Their admit and the letter was misleading and confirm that the visa will be extended for another 5 years for sure but the reason why they still have no clear answer is because the committee is still deciding on whether or not, and if so, how much fee, they will charge member for the 5 years renewal fee.

As when the card is approved, they didn’t think about this issue before so there was no renewal rate for 5 years visa at the Immigration bureau. The issue about the renewal rate of 5 years visa was put in the committee in the last cabinet but as the cabinet has changed, the matter had to be re-submitted and now awaiting for decision and announcement. Again, they said 100% the visa will be renewed and it’s only the fee that has to be decided.

My guess is that the worse case scenario will be Elite member will probably has to pay 1,900 Baht for 5 year renewal fee.

I did not ask about member that did apply for extension of 5 year visa before it expires though I feel that member should get benefit of the doubt as the term “life time privilege” could mislead some members to not pay attention to the visa renewal clause (if there was one).

I think that the content of the Elite letter to member was quite misleading but to be positive, at least the reality is not as bad as it seemed. As a Thai person, I am happy to see this outcome as I have no wish to see our government’s credibility got more tarnished than this.

Naravadee Waravanitcha (nui) Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd

Oh dear, and the last bit sums it up.

[midas]

This has been coming for a number of weeks, although a number of "Elite" card holders have been burying their head in the sand, and even the "noted" Sunbelt jumped to it's defence.

No surprise, only that it's lasted this long. 2,800 members, not exactly a success. The next question though, is where have the membership fees gone?

we know that ! In an " offshore " account in Singapore

[mrtoad]

2,570 members

x 1,000,000

2,570,000,000

2.570 Billion baht

why should any of these services cost more than that.

2 BILLION baht and then a loss of 1.4 billion on TOP.. hello.

Who was getting paid for what?

Total scam from SOMEBODY on the Thaksin team...

Yep, another scam, which has Toxins odour surrounding it.

[mrtoad]

This has been coming for a number of weeks, although a number of "Elite" card holders have been burying their head in the sand, and even the "noted" Sunbelt jumped to it's defence.

No surprise, only that it's lasted this long. 2,800 members, not exactly a success. The next question though, is where have the membership fees gone?

we know that ! In an " offshore " account in Singapore

Or could it be in Dubai now?

[MyphuketLife]

Nasty stuff to laugh at someone else's misfortune!

Yeah my heart bleeds for those <snip>

Just because their "rich" its ok to screw them out of 1.5 million baht? I am not rich, but really looked into the card when I was first looking to move to Thailand, after allot of looking around and calculating I figured it was not for me, but came very close to getting the card... And I am not rich, and had I bought the card as my means to stay in the country, to only have it revoked a few years later would have effected me in a very negitave way... I would bet that most members that have the card are not rich, and have purchased it as a means to gain access to the country (under retirement age, but not "working")...

I can't believe they did not grandfather in the card, a responsible government would do one of two things:

1. grandfather in the card (if they can't afford to keep all the perks, it costs them nothing to grandfather in the 5 year visa stamps)

or

2. say the international life expetancy of an adult is X you are X years old, You used the card for X year... simple math we see that you would have used the card for X more years.... here is your X% returned fees for the years we cheated you out of.

Anything other than those two options just show Thailand in a negitave light....

[LivinLOS]

Well the writing has been on the wall for anyone with an ounce of sense.

However that hasnt stopped many 'elite' holders of this con posting on here, claiming the assured health of the program, and how it doesnt matter as they have all made easily a million bahts worth from their benefits already.

Of course theres also that refund clause, I can see them being fully made whole from that !!

[skippybangkok]

Or could it be in Dubai now?

Give the man a break, he spends $5m a year just to hold his head above water..........

[dunroaming]

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but didn't the card allow the foreigner who owned it to buy a nominal amount of land in their own name? If so I wonder how that will pan out..?

[anon467367354]

I'm not sure I really understood the purpose of the "elitist" card. The news every morning had a "message" from the division of high end tourism, a 7 minute advertisement for thai elite card holders. I think every country in the world has spas to visit, and honestly I haven't had a massage here that matches the quality of the massages I got in the states. I don't know who watching the "news" at 8:50AM needs to buy or would want, or have the money to buy one of these cards. If I was a tourist, I wouldn't be watching the tv on my exciting vacation in the land of smiles. If 1% of the population has 95+% of all the money, who was this targeted to, and how many people would it actually bring in? Is it for those that stay in the international hotels and send the money out of the country? Where is the family oriented division of tourism? What does Thailand have to offer the families that come here, or why would families want to come here? I'm sure there are reasons, advertise them. Advertise to the people that would be supporting the Thai people, the local people, the local artists and restaurants. This is a golden opportunity for Thailand to get on the map as the best tourist destination in the world, but to advertise to 1% of the people, shows a lack of judgment. If you bought a Thai elite card, we all make mistakes, maybe your government will bail you out, businesses do go under.

disclaimer: this is a non-scientific posting of mostly opinion and in no way is to represent scientists making scientific claims. It's just fun to do it on the table once in while.

[steffi]

So what happens to existing members?

Breaking News:

Thailand Elite Card is abandoned

BANGKOK: -- The loss-making Thailand Elite Card, launched in 2003 to lure wealthy tourists and business people to Thailand, will be scrapped, a government spokesman said. Only 2,570 were members in 2008.

-- Reuters/Bangkok Post 2009-01-29

[neverdie]

Nasty stuff to laugh at someone else's misfortune!

Yeah my heart bleeds for those <snip>

You assume that all people that got sukked into this scheme are rich. I would suggest just because someone spent a mere 1 million baht on membership that they arent all rich. Hopefully most of them realised that this situation was always on the cards, as nothing these days seems to have a life-time guarantee.

Perhaps some of these rich people involved in this are the ones paying high taxes to support your unemployment benifits?? Makes me wonder why your so critical & no, I'm not a thai elite card member.

[xbusman]

A quick perspective on this classic case that should be filed under lessons learned. It is a microcosm of life in Thailand and you can laugh and ridicule all you want but this is simply on a different level than what most of us operate on.

There are those that bought this card and got a few years good use out of it. Maybe their companies paid for it, maybe they had a million in loose change they dug out of their sock drawer. During that time, they got easy visas, VIP treatment at the airports, lots of golf. I know for a fact they had excellent resources in the government to get things done when Thaksin was still around. They wont notice that the card is gone other than their limo will be different when they head to the airport.

They understand the first and only real law of Thailand,

NEVER INVEST MORE HERE THAN YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM.

Before we get too smug about those who paid for the card with real earned money that had significance in their lives, those who are preparing the balcony for tomorrows Pattaya Mail morning edition, its not a bad idea to review our investment here. If it can happen to people of power and significance, it highlights how tenuous our grip is in this society.

Lessons learned:

Never part with cash here for anything other than that which you can hold and feel. If they offer a five year visa which is renewable, then its a five year visa. We make all sorts of assumptions that simply are not true here. If it was a lifetime visa, then they would have issued a lifetime visa and made it valid for 90 days at a time. Since they did not, aint it easy to see that the Executive branch of government did not have the power to create a visa and get immigrations to honor it? Hindsight is great stuff with other peoples problems.

If you look at an empty half finished condo for 4 million baht and the builder promises to finish the condo, you are buying an empty half finished condo for 4 million baht. If it actually progresses and you complain, you could end up with a bullet in your neck.

Even if you get the goods, take inventory and be fully aware that you might have to walk away tomorrow. There are going to be at least a few Elite cardholders that do not qualify for another visa. Under 50, no biz, no marriage, no sense. Thankfully they can make 15 day visa runs forever, and hopefully they have the money to do so in a private car.

Its all great fun until someone loses an eye so settle down and think about the ramifications of what this means to you and your life.

I love it here, cant imagine living anywhere else, but I am determined not to be stupid about it. I dont think I am brave enough to stand on a balcony railing.

[ASHTONITE]

Nasty stuff to laugh at someone else's misfortune!

Yeah my heart bleeds for those <snip>

Come on... we are not <snip>... it was presented with certain value and amenities that we thought was important. Just because some of us worked hard and made money.. does not give you the right to make comments like this.

Get a job :-)

[asiawatcher]

Little fancied Elite card is abandoned

-- Bangkok Post (printed edition) 2009-01-29

I would love to audit the figures of 1.4Billion Baht as a loss recorded for 2006 against how the 2,590 members used it. I have one and use about 6 international flight transfers (baht 900 a time at retail) hustle through Immigration (that's worth the cost of the card!), escorted to get a drivers license at Mochit and they actually gave me all licenses including truck from my old international, and the golf once a week, green fees average say 2,000 (that works out about 100,000+ a year the Govt pays the Golf Club), then my million baht in their hot little hands at bank interest would not be too bad. Leveraged as they do - it would pay dividends in the right financial hands.

Considering the golf includes my international paying guests at retail, hotels they pay for, value added income to the country, restaurants, taxis, landing fees - they all gave up flying Thai International as service is about as good as their politics, they make a lot of income inroads by horizontal market integration and PR so why 'can' a good system? More a political move against raconteur Thaksin and not well thought out!

[thurien]

Let's hope those who are affected get sorted out to their satisfaction

I guess there were only very few of the total foreign card holders who laid their (real) money down - most of them e.g. politicians and other dubious government figures, ageing Western movie stars, less successful soccer & tennis players, senior management of major travel agencies and so forth got this little thing for free...

[tropo]

2570 is less than one million

Yes, but it's still at least 2.57 billion baht in collected fees not taking into consideration that some may have paid 1.5 million for their cards.

Edited January 29, 2009 by tropo

[Insight]

So what happens to existing members?

Breaking News:

Thailand Elite Card is abandoned

BANGKOK: -- The loss-making Thailand Elite Card, launched in 2003 to lure wealthy tourists and business people to Thailand, will be scrapped, a government spokesman said. Only 2,570 were members in 2008.

-- Reuters/Bangkok Post 2009-01-29

Not sure. Perhaps one of the (cough) members who were keen to defend the card could advise?

[avalonmick]

I had read the letter from Elite to its member regarding the extension of the 5 years visa and did have an opportunity to talk to reliable source of Elite card today at their office so I asked the question. Their admit and the letter was misleading and confirm that the visa will be extended for another 5 years for sure but the reason why they still have no clear answer is because the committee is still deciding on whether or not, and if so, how much fee, they will charge member for the 5 years renewal fee.

As when the card is approved, they didn't think about this issue before so there was no renewal rate for 5 years visa at the Immigration bureau. The issue about the renewal rate of 5 years visa was put in the committee in the last cabinet but as the cabinet has changed, the matter had to be re-submitted and now awaiting for decision and announcement. Again, they said 100% the visa will be renewed and it's only the fee that has to be decided.

My guess is that the worse case scenario will be Elite member will probably has to pay 1,900 Baht for 5 year renewal fee.

I did not ask about member that did apply for extension of 5 year visa before it expires though I feel that member should get benefit of the doubt as the term "life time privilege" could mislead some members to not pay attention to the visa renewal clause (if there was one).

I think that the content of the Elite letter to member was quite misleading but to be positive, at least the reality is not as bad as it seemed. As a Thai person, I am happy to see this outcome as I have no wish to see our government's credibility got more tarnished than this.

Naravadee Waravanitcha (nui) Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd

Oh dear, and the last bit sums it up.

More tarnished than what? Is it even possible there is a smidgeon not yet tarnished?

[sriracha john]

2570 is less than one million

Yes, but it's still at least 2.57 billion baht in collected fees not taking into consideration that some may have paid 1.5 million for their cards.

but totally forgetting the hundreds who paid zero. There was no 2.57 billion baht collected on this scam.

[Spudger]

the thing is with mugs is that they get mugged, now these mugs had a mil or so spare and got mugged for it. mugs.

[A_Traveller]

Shock Horror Probe

Thai Elite Card fails......

In to TARDIS

When announced there were 3 versions, an individual "tourist" card, life time and transferable at 1 million baht, individual for foreigners living in Thailand for twice that and finally a corporate version [2 specified individuals] again for 30 years at 2 million].

This was launched at APEC 2003 with the first cards being given to the Head of States. It is believed that many of the so called members were given the card, one suspects the number of paid subscriptions is far lower.

The 5 year visa was "enhanced" tourist, expect for the corporate offering, for obvious reasons.

The only reason anyone had the slightest interest was the lauded ability to "own land". As we all know, Thai law at the Constitutional level, and below, prohibits foreigners from owning land, so the card, after much headless chickening at the outset, could only offer a tax dodge, in that when a card holder eventually choose to sell the land, that sale would be seen as a sale by an individual rather than by a corporation, [since the land would be held by a Thai majority company] making it liable for lower tax. Guess these are the ones that need to be "taken care of".

On the finances, anyone else remember the CNN bill [140 million baht IIRC] farrago, and the rapid turnover of "senior staff".

Whilst across the border in Malaysia, the Second Home programme with 10 year visa, and legally enshrined property laws continues to discretely increase

Regards

Edited January 29, 2009 by A_Traveller

[midas]

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but didn't the card allow the foreigner who owned it to buy a nominal amount of land in their own name? If so I wonder how that will pan out..?

No no dunroaming - they were told they could buy land but when they read the fine print

they discovered any property would be held in a property management company to

be " looked after " by the Thailand Elite mob ! Now that will all have to be

sorted out as well now - who owns what ?

[absolutelyBangkok]

The program was great to earn a fee. You sold a card, you got 10% or even more.

The demise a surprise?

Well, sue the state!

[fishhooks]

Working Mr neverdie! got the topic notified to my email inbox, so was worth a look.

Ask yourself and I'm sure you'll get a good answer:

How many of the responses to the raised topic actually pertain to the subject with a "reasonable" comment or advice 'vs' How many of the responses are just slinging off? many at others misfortune with absolute no-use comments.

Time for some really just to "Get A Life" .......and yes this is a flame!

[poldebol]

2,570 members

x 1,000,000 baht per head membership....

2,570,000,000

2.57 Billion baht

why should any of these services cost more than that.

2 and half BILLION baht... and then a loss of 1.4 billion baht on TOP.. hello.

Who was getting paid for what?

Total scam from SOMEBODY on the Thaksin team...

who started this up in the first place.

A sop for the egos of the overly rich, who don't like to wait,

but typically these are the worst people to screw over,

because they ARE investors one and all...

These people paid for long term visas,

why should they be charged 1,900 baht for a visa now...

It's all rotten to the Nth degree

It really took 29 posts before somebody made this calculation.

And for your homework:

How many farang have 800K for one 15 months or so on a saving account?

How much is the total amount on thesesaving accounts?

How much interest do the Thai banks pay to these people?

How much profit do these banks make on this capital when they lend it to people who buy a car or a house?

Next week:

What is the legal minimum salary in Thailand. How many people who should get one, get one?

Why is the Thai Baht so strong?

And, class: dDo not forget to bring your little calculators (minimum 12 digits)

[manjara]

2570 is less than one million

Yes, but it's still at least 2.57 billion baht in collected fees not taking into consideration that some may have paid 1.5 million for their cards.

Also, I thought that the Thai government (Taksin's), gave away a number of cards (free) to selected VIPs. Not sure how many or if they are counted in the 2570 people....

[sriracha john]

The troubled Thailand Elite Card initiated by the Thaksin Shinawatra administration and running at a huge loss is to be abandoned.

Bangkok Post

They've finally posted the article online:

Little-fancied Elite Card is abandoned

The troubled Thailand Elite Card initiated by the Thaksin Shinawatra administration and running at a huge loss is to be abandoned.

"To curb further losses, the cabinet sees it as imperative that the Elite Card programme be scrapped," deputy government spokesman Puttipong Punnakan said yesterday.

Tourism and Sports Minister Chumpol Silpa-archa said Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva had instructed his ministry to work out compensation for the small number of members or find other ways to take care of them.

Its proposals are to be sent to the cabinet within the next two weeks.

Thailand Elite Card was launched by then prime minister Thaksin in 2003 as a high-class programme to attract wealthy tourists and business people.

It promised fast-track immigration privileges, long-term property leases and discounts at luxury spas, golf courses and hotels. Thaksin confidently predicted it would attract one million cardholders by 2008, but to date has drawn just 2,570.

The state-owned Thailand Privilege Card, which issues the cards and runs the scheme, posted accumulated losses of up to 1.14 billion baht as of 2006. Operating results for 2007 and last year have yet to be reported.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1360...rd-is-abandoned

Edited January 29, 2009 by sriracha john

[LivinLOS]

1176 User(s) are reading this topic (790 Guests and 6 Anonymous Users)

How does that ad up

Adds up very nicely - especially if you're charging out at CPM

Quite obviously its 790 guests, 6 anon users, and the rest logged in members listed in the members reading this thread list where this statement is posted..

[midas]

2,570 members

x 1,000,000 baht per head membership....

2,570,000,000

2.57 Billion baht

why should any of these services cost more than that.

2 and half BILLION baht... and then a loss of 1.4 billion baht on TOP.. hello.

Who was getting paid for what?

Total scam from SOMEBODY on the Thaksin team...

who started this up in the first place.

A sop for the egos of the overly rich, who don't like to wait,

but typically these are the worst people to screw over,

because they ARE investors one and all...

These people paid for long term visas,

why should they be charged 1,900 baht for a visa now...

It's all rotten to the Nth degree

It really took 29 posts before somebody made this calculation.

And for your homework:

How many farang have 800K for one 15 months or so on a saving account?

How much is the total amount on thesesaving accounts?

How much interest do the Thai banks pay to these people?

How much profit do these banks make on this capital when they lend it to people who buy a car or a house?

Next week:

What is the legal minimum salary in Thailand. How many people who should get one, get one?

Why is the Thai Baht so strong?

And, class: dDo not forget to bring your little calculators (minimum 12 digits)

I asked a question about Thailand Elite many times but no one-( particularly

any card holders ) ever answered me... The first reaction I had was WHY did

a company that only sold pieces of plastic from an office NEED to charge

all the money UPFRONT ? Surely that should have set the alarm bells ringing on its own ?

Why doesn't American Express or Diners Club charge a lifetime fee ?

Any company that wants all the money upfront suggests to me that from day one-

THEY HAD NO REAL FAITH IN THEIR OWN LONG TERM SURVIVAL

[rick75]

Tourism and Sports Minister Chumpol Silpa-archa said Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva had instructed his ministry to work out compensation for the small number of members or find other ways to take care of them.

With the cost of a Life in Thailand valued at 50 000bht I hope the other ways to take care of them don't involve lead, or a dive of a 30th floor balcony.