Application For Extension Of Stay Delayed - Can Stay Without New Visa?

[SteveB2]

My 'application for extension of stay' notification for my 1 year non-imm-B visa based on marriage/business expires this weekend...

Renewal of the visa can not be completed at the local immigration office(Jomtien) since the final approval notification paperwork has still not returned from Bangkok Immigration HQ.

In the past, if the 'extension of stay' renewal paperwork has been late returning from Bangkok, the local immigration office have inserted a new 30 day extension in the passport to cover the delay.

However... this time 3 seperate immigration officials stated that "it is OK to remain in Thailand after the 'application for extension of stay' notification has expired"

Looking at my passport, it appears very much like all visas and notifications to return to immigration expire in a couple of days time, and I will then be residing in Thailand without a valid visa or immigration permission stamp in my passport, waiting in 'no mans land' for immigration to insert a new 1 year visa in my passport

It looks very clear to me that if I get picked up on a routine passport inspection, the police officer who inspects the passport will view my lack of 'in date' visa stamp or 'in date' request to return to immigration in a very bad light, and I will be off to jail in a heartbeat.

So the question:-

Is it OK to stay in Thailand beyond the printed 'Application for extension of stay is under consideration' date without a new visa?

Thank you very much for your help.

Applicant details:-

British Passport Holder, Age 48 years. Thai wife, Thai child, Thai Ltd Co business, Work Permit, 3rd x 1 year extension of stay application in process

[PoorSucker]

Apply for extension of stay based on marriage.

[ubonjoe]

Is it OK to stay in Thailand beyond the printed 'Application for extension of stay is under consideration' date without a new visa?

No

Somebody at immigration is giving you wrong information or are just to lazy to do it. They should do antother report back date.

Go back and try again. Take you wife along for support and translation if need be.

[ubonjoe]

Apply for extension of stay based on marriage.

You need to go back and read the topic again.

[uncletom]

I just had been through a 4 month waiting period to finally have my extension for support approved. I have been through this many many of years and times for this kind of extension, but never waited over the original 30 day come back period.. Everytime I was instructed to come-back every 30 days to check for the results, and then clearly given a new immigration 30 day come back under consideration stamp (LEGAL and SAFE). Legal is the stamp in your book, true documentation is the correct way instead of hearsay which could turn out to be a thorn in your side, or after being caught, someones rocket in your through your back pocket when you bend over staying behind bars. Just joking about the rocket part!!!

Uncletom

[SteveB2]

Thanks guys for your advice so far - today is now mid-day Friday; this afternoon will be my last chance to get another 30day 'application for extension of stay' stamped into my passport before the old one expires.

I already took the company secretary down immigration with me this morning to querie this obnormality, and all officials behind the desks were very clear that it was OK...

However, after more than 12 years of continuous visa and work permit renewals in Thailand I just don't see how what immigration is saying can be true, and to be honest 'I smell a rat'.

So I'm off now to find a decent lawyer to accompany me down to immigration and get something official put in writing and clipped to my passport - I just don't like this situation at all.

I'll keep you informed how it pans out - wish me luck!

SteveB2

[SteveB2]

Update:-

I have just come back from a meeting with attorney Khun Sathienraphong Khumnon of Sathienraphong-Evans Law & Accounting Co.

Here is her learned advice after seeking additional clarification from Jomtien immigration...

"You are OK because you already have your documents under review by immigration and are awaiting there response"

Her confirmation appears to clarify that the expirety of the 'application for extension of stay' notification is not considered in the same bad light as the expirety of a normal visa.

She did advise to approach Jomtien Immigration on Monday to chase up the missing approval notification again asap, ensure that the work permit is 'locked' (so it will not be cancelled due to the late arrival of the approval notice, since it too expires on the same day as the passport original immigration 'application for extension of stay' date).

Conclusion

Even with learned legal clarification of my position, I still can't help feeling uneasy about my status once the notice expires, since if any street cop examines my passport, all visas and notification stamps will have expired, and that is definitely not a good position to be in at all. I am not sure that my 'Jedi Mind Trick' skill are up to convincing one of the boys in brown that the out of date immigration stamp doesn't matter

May I humbly suggest that immigration sort out this vagueness and put in another 30 day stamp to clarify the holder's precarious position, since the ruling was so unknown that even the attorney I consulted with over 15 years of law practice in this region had to seek further clarification to this question.

I have stapled her business card to the passport visa page... Let's hope I don't need to call

SteveB2

[Lite Beer]

In the old days when the Marriage Extensions took months to come through you always got another 30 day stamp while you were waiting. I used to have rows of them.

[Maestro]

...

Here is her learned advice after seeking additional clarification from Jomtien immigration...

"You are OK because you already have your documents under review by immigration and are awaiting there response"...

Officially, staring 16 FEB you will be in Thailand without a valid permission to stay.

--

Maestro

[SteveB2]

...

Here is her learned advice after seeking additional clarification from Jomtien immigration...

"You are OK because you already have your documents under review by immigration and are awaiting there response"...

Officially, staring 16 FEB you will be in Thailand without a valid permission to stay.

--

Maestro

UPDATE - Sunday 15th. "Application for extension of stay is under consideration" Notice Expires date...

Following my continual uneasy feelings about the soon approaching vagueness of my visa status and ThaiVisa members comments, I have asked around friends for recommendations of lawyers who also do business with Bangkok immigration - The reasoning being that all the local Jomtien lawyers I have seen so far, appear to be unsure as to the status of the 'Application for extension of stay is under consideration' expires date, then simply telephone the local Jomtien Immigration office for a verbal answer.

The net result being all I get is a verbal answer(again), and nothing printed or stamped into my passport... apart from the glaring expired date

...and so after much telephoning around friends, I eventualy get recomended to go see Lawyer Khun Surasak Klinsmith (Siam Eastern Law Co, Near Pattaya law Courts) for another, hopefully more learned opinion.

Here is a summary of his clarifying statement...

(statement starts)

"The 'Application for extension of stay is under consideration' notice does indeed expire on the 15th February, and with it so does your permission to stay in Thailand. However, because the expirety date is a Sunday(A holiday) and immigration offices are closed, you are granted one more day (Monday the 16th February) to approach immigration to get another 30day extension inserted into your passport.

"You should approach Jomtien immigration first thing monday morning for the new 30 day stamp, and if immigration still refuse to insert the stamp, I should return immediately to his office for legal assistance on Monday.

(statement ends)

That is as much as I know - I will also be preparing for a swift border run(tourist visa, on Monday afternoon) regardless of what shenanigans go on at immigration, then during the next few days will be getting the Thai non-imm-B application paperwork together, followed by an international flight to 'god knows where' at immense unecessary expense if this situation doesn't get sorted out on Monday.

Perhaps to a destination which is a litle bit more business and visitor friendly

[kriswillems]

One year ago I was in almost the same situation as you. If was waiting for my 1 year extension(based on marriage) and my 30-day under consideration stamp expired. I also asked them what I should do when I would get a police check. They were laughing that I was afraid of that and said that I should call them when I would be checked. I didn't get a new 30 day stamp. A few days later I got my 1 year extension.

I think it might not be so smart to run to the border on Monday because this might completely change your visa status. If you were here on a single entry visa, you'll only get a 15 days stamp at the border and I am not sure such a stamp can be extended without getting a new visa.

[Mario2008]

A marriage extension can take a long time. Don't go abroad and re-enter. That would indeed change your visa status and you would have to apply for a new non-O from a Thai embassy or consulate and start the whole process over again.

[ubonjoe]

I certainly wouldn't panic and make a border run. That would mean starting all over again,

They may not of given you a new stamp because you were earlier thant the date on the stamp.

Did they even go looking for your file when you wnet to immigration. Some immigration offices won't even check to see if your paper work is back until that date,

Try again on Monday. But don't makle a border run.

[SteveB2]

Thank you very much for your helpful words.

I hope very much that Jomtien Immigration inserts the 30day 'waiting for approval' stamp on Monday. In view of the demonstrated uncertainity of the visa status amongst immigration and thai legal folks, it would clearly be the safer solution - for the passport holder (me)

It is interesting to note user kriswillems has also been in this position before, and been given the same immigration speel complete with Thai smirk when asked what police would do if they noticed his expired visa status...

So to conclude then, the following seams apparent:-

1. The 'waiting for approval' notification expires and no new 30day visa is inserted into your passport by immigration - you are then likely considered to be overstaying your permission to stay in Thailand - only a phone call to immigration(if immigration picks up the phone) may get you off the hook.

2. Doing a visa run on the last day will indeed mess up your current visa application status, but it will result in a short legal 15 day tourist visitor stay in thailand while you go through the whole non-imm-b visa + 1 year extension procedure all over again.

Lovely... I'm off down 7-11. I believe beer has the solution to this little dilema

[ubonjoe]

The 30 day period is not an extension. I like to call it a period of limbo.

Enjoy the beer and relax.

[abdulrahman]

Enjoy the beer and relax.

At the 7/11?Not before 5 pm!

[kriswillems]

Well, today I am in the same situation as you. My 30-day under consideration stamp expired today (16 FEB) and they didn't give me a new "under consideration" stamp. Starting from tomorrow I'll be illegally into the country. Maybe we can get drunk together?

Just relax, this is Thailand. Everything is slow and late here and most problems can be fixed with money, a smile or time. If the immigration officer tells you've no problem, I would believe him and ask for his name and telephone number in case you get checked (and never forget to keep on smiling when asking this).

Goodluck.

[astral]

Officially, staring 16 FEB you will be in Thailand without a valid permission to stay.

--

Maestro

I agree with Maestro, you are now in overstay.

Go to immigration TODAY

and get a extension new stamp pending approval of your marriage extension.

The fact that the previous one expired on a Sunday may save you.

It is not uncommon that Local Lawyers do not understand immigration law.

[kriswillems]

I talked about this problem with the immigration officer. The immigration officer told me that the under consideration stamp is no deadline.

If you read the message on the stamp it also doesn't say you can stay until that date, it just says you've an appointment on that date. She said that until they get a message back from Bangkok saying the extension has been refused, I am still legally in the country and it's not necessary for them to give you another stamp. Everything depends on your status in the immigration computer. My status is still under consideration (although the appointment date was today).

Tomorrow will be my first day "?illegal?" day. My stamp said FEB16. I'll call them again tomorrow.

I would say, if you can get the stamp, get it! If not, call them every day and ask for advice.

[astral]

I talked about this problem with the immigration officer. The immigration officer told me that the under consideration stamp is no deadline.

That is not my experience.

I have always turned up on the day stated and been given a new stamp

pending the final approval.

[Maestro]

I talked about this problem with the immigration officer. The immigration officer told me that the under consideration stamp is no deadline.

The officer has a point there, and I am taking back what I said about the OP being on overstay starting today. This is an example of the “under consideration stamp”:

The stamp asks the passport holder to report again to the immigration office on a given date, he has done so, although there is no written record of it in the passport or otherwise in the OP's possession. Nevertheless, the fact remains that the stamp in his passport continues to say that his application is under consideration.

--

Maestro

[kriswillems]

To be honest, I would also be much more happy with a new stamp. But the fact is that some offices just don't give you a new stamp. I think the risk that you end up in jail is very low, because the fact what really counts is your status in the immigration computer.

I wouldn't blame the lawyer or individual immigration officers, because the whole thing just seems to depend on what the head of the local immigration office thinks. There's nothing more we can do than waiting. Even bringing 1 million lawyers to the immigration office will not help.

Just try to get the stamp and if you can't get it, do a very good follow up (call them often).

Don't do anything stupid, like going on an emergency visa run before you get the result of your application.

[SteveB2]

Latest Update:- Well, depending on which side of this post you believe in, I am now officially overstayed, and have gone underground as 'The Scarlet pimpernel'

We seek him here, we seek him there,

Those Frenchies seek him everywhere.

Is he in heaven?—Is he in hel_l?

That demmed, elusive Pimpernel.

So Kriswillems, is you are local to Pattaya and fancy an overstayers gin and tonic at the Marriott Hotel costing a million quid, send me a PM to fix a time and a place.

Jomtien Immigration's last instructions to me were to come back on Thursday(this Thursday perhaps?) to see if the '1 year extension to stay' has come back from Bangkok or not.

Immigration's current feeling about the delays in Bangkok are that the permission could easily be eek or two late - let's hope the Mandarins at the labour office understand this problem, and don't sentence my Work Permit to the 'death of a thousand cuts'

I'll keep you updated... as for now, I'm still here, and still have not been arrested.

So far so good.

[Lite Beer]

I'll keep you updated... as for now, I'm still here, and still have not been arrested.

So far so good.

Good news for 7/11

[Digger]

I know 2 people who are in exactly this position both of whom on Work Permits and both getting very annoyed at the lack of urgency anyone seems to show over this. Apparently both have been told, its actually in order NOT to stamp the passport any longer. One has found out - its an immigration requirement to process an application WITHIN the original 30 day extension stamp - hence, they no longer stamp a further extension - i.e. its basically admitting they have missed their own internal (or maybe legal) requirement to either approve or deny a visa extension based on whichever circumstances. Pretty shocking really and I am amazed nobody has picked up on these delays. I also understand that both the people I know also deal with Jomtien. No idea if its true but it seems quite widespread.

[kriswillems]

I should have got my 1 year extension on FEB 16, but I got it yesterday on FEB 19 (because the approval from BKK came late).

So I went both to the immigration office on FEB16 and FEB19.

But:

My appointment paper for 90 day reporting still says FEB16, they didn't give me a new appointment paper and didn't let me fill in any 90 day report. Should I go to immigration now (FEB20) for a new paper or just report within 90 days after FEB16?

[CakeBandit]

I will be in Limbo land tomorrow also, my under consideration stamp expires and then yesterday my local immigration just penciled in date on when to check again. I am starting to believe that it may be o.k. and believe the Guy on this topic that posted 'it is just a appointment not a expiration date'. Even though common sense goes completely opposite. Good Luck to everybody else in the twilight zone. P.S. I had my wife call Bangkok immigration this AM, they also said don't worry about it. If I need to leave the country to go to my local immigration office and they will take care of me. (yeah right) Also the Bangkok immigration said that since I now go to my local office in the North East, the penciled in signature and date they put in my passport near my under consideration stamp is OK as they 'know about me, who I am (on there computer)'.

Hope this helps some of you too. Your not alone, I believe this is just the beginning....

[SteveB2]

Update:-

The 'application for extension of stay' expirety date has now expired for more than 2 weeks.

Jomtien Immigration have now requested daily visits to check on the status of the renewal paperwork coming back from Bangkok.

I have a multi-location Work Permit(WP) with Head Office in Koh Samui. Fortunately the Suratthani Labor office allows me to lock 'Lock' the WP renewal for 30days instead of the rather short 7 day 'Lock' period permitted by Chonburi Labor office... so hopefully the WP is still alive and kicking.

I guess Bangkok Immigration must be very overworked with this sort of paperwork hence the recent notice about everyone having to use their own local immigration office instead of (say) Bangkok.

We shall see

I will keep you posted.

[SteveB2]

Update:-

Well, after all the wait, another one year extension of stay application has just been approved. Now that it's arrived, I really couldn't care less, as I had already got used to the idea of getting kicked out.

I didn't even have to go down immigration to pick it up either (Immigration simply put a page full of stamps in my passport and handed it back to our company secretary)

So then, all I need do now is complete a few more jumps through flaming hoops at the Labour Office within the next 7 days to keep my work permit alive, hand over another pile of cash to some more mandarins, and all will be well for another year.

Pitty. I was beginning to get rather fond of living in limbo land, not knowing if you are going to be thrown out the country at a few days notice and all that...

The whole waiting experience got me thinking:-

Knowing how rapidly things are changing here, and with the continuing deterioration in the political and economic situation, I will now re-check all affairs financial to ensure that things really are set up to cope with me being thrown out of my home and business for the last 13 years at a moments notice. Its a pitty about the wife and kid - I'll miss them.

May I humbly suggest that with the ever increasing hassles and expense of satisfying any long term visa or work permit requirements, that any foriegner laying down serious cash to invest in a business or purchase a property in this country is potty.

From carrying out a bit of research and asking around at immigration, it appears that there is currently quite a big purge going on to get rid of Farang staying here using fake Ltd Co businesses employing the wife, wife's sister, wifes dog, wifes dogs friend etc as the 4 employees to float a work permit, especially fake property rental businesses used as an excuse to own a house with a work permit and long term visa etc. Recently, Capital requirements have also been increased considerably for businesses wishing to operate under the BOI scheme which offers preferential visa treatment.

which has to get you thinking about who will next be next under immigrations spotlight?

Well, it's been 'all quiet on the western front' for pensioners (those 50years +) for quite some time now. So I would guess that it's about time the minimum cash requirements jumped up a bit to throw out what I am sure will be considered 'thread bare undesirable old codgers' out of LOS... Likely doubling or tripling the yearly required capital deposit amount would be the usual multiplier You heard it from me first.

Looking on the brighter side, we are nearly into low season here in Pattaya. I feel very certain that I will soon become a very handsome man

Take care guys - Thank you all for your help with this issue.

SteveB2

[CakeBandit]

Update

I went back last week on the date that was penciled in, I was prepared to have a bad day, but was surprised. The Officer erased the penciled in dates and put the 1 year stamp in. Feeling alot better...