The D Word, Are We In Now Or Entering A Global Depression?

[Naam]

In the USA you will never own your home no matter how many times you pay for it.

What a bizarre statement! Homes are so cheap in the US that people with cash are scooping up foreclosures, owning them free and clear. I have a friend who for 80K USD recently bought TWO houses.

the expression "houses" can be stretched of course. even some dogs have "doghouses".

[flying]

In the USA you will never own your home no matter how many times you pay for it.

What a bizarre statement! Homes are so cheap in the US that people with cash are scooping up foreclosures, owning them free and clear. I have a friend who for 80K USD recently bought TWO houses.

Yes sorry perhaps I should explain.

Born & raised in a part of the US that tends to see very wild fluctuations in property values I will tell you why I said that.

Gowing up many many times I see retired folks forced to sell or lose their paid for property due to extemely high property taxes. Taxes based on valuations that can be driven up to the sky by buying spurts.

There was a time that wealthy Japanese came here & literally paid millions USD for homes they bought from the back seat of limo's without ever entering the homes.

Guess what happened to the neighbors on fixed incomes the next year when their valuation based property taxes went through the roof & they cold not pay them?

Taxes like death have no limit here.

[sanmiguel]

If England would have joined the Eurocountries they would have suffered much less from the depression. The pound has lost much more of its value then the Euro compared to the bath. A question of spreading the riscs and understanding what is going on in the world. I think the globalisation is unevitably.

If other countries have much lower wages it means they can produce much cheaper, so the buyer will go there, they get richer, can give bigger wages etc. Protecting only the own nationals is no longer possible in a globalising world.

If Britain had been in the Euro during the boom years we'd have had even lower interest rates and the property boom would have been even worse, look at Ireland and Spain as examples, over the long term if Britain is to get out this depression we need to build a manufacturing industry hence a weak pound is a good thing. Furthermore Britain has got a lot of its bad news out already the bad news from Eurozone is about to come to the fore with several countries ie Spain Greece Italy Ireland all in far worse positions then Britain, with a currency thats strong to suit the Germans/Dutch/French going to stop any chance of a quick recovery for them.

Sarkozy the cheer leader of Eurofascism only this week implimented protectionist laws to protect the French car workers at the expense of the rest of Eurozome workers, and protecting a countries own workers is possible all we need to do is pull out of the fascist EU, though in true fascist manner EU fascists will make threats to the UK if we do, you are aware the EU was set up as a trade zone, but you EU fascists keep on moving the goalposts.

I want free trade of goods with Euro fascists and the rest of the world but i and the majority of this country dont want to be governed by EU fascists or have to pay 60 Billion a year in bureaucracy fees to pay for fascist bureaucrats, and we dont want unlimited immigration of cheap workers as it lowers our wages and standard of life THIS IS A FACT, but play the racism card if you will.

3 years ago my fathers company were looking to get some ships built, they chose Holland over England as the shipyard recevied government subsidies plus there were tax incentives to build it there, hardly what you'd call a level playing field, but us Brits are well aware that you EU socialist fascists sneakily look after your own then, and its time we started doing so.

Edited March 3, 2009 by sanmiguel

[lannarebirth]

If England would have joined the Eurocountries they would have suffered much less from the depression. The pound has lost much more of its value then the Euro compared to the bath. A question of spreading the riscs and understanding what is going on in the world. I think the globalisation is unevitably.

If other countries have much lower wages it means they can produce much cheaper, so the buyer will go there, they get richer, can give bigger wages etc. Protecting only the own nationals is no longer possible in a globalising world.

If Britain had been in the Euro during the boom years we'd have had even lower interest rates and the property boom would have been even worse, look at Ireland and Spain as examples.

Sarkozy the cheer leader of Eurofascism only this week implimented protectionist laws to protect the French car workers at the expense of the rest of Eurozome workers, and protecting a countries own workers is possible all we need to do is pull out of the fascist EU.

I want free trade of goods with Euro fascists and the rest of the world but i and the majority of this country dont want to be governed by EU fascists or have to pay 60 Billion a year in bureaucracy fees to pay for fascist bureaucrats, and we dont want unlimited immigration of cheap workers as it lowers our wages and standard of life THIS IS A FACT, but place the racism card if you will.

3 years ago my fathers company were looking to get some ships built, they chose Holland over England as the shipyard recevied government subsidies plus there were tax incentives to build it there, hardly what you'd call a level playing field, but us Brits are well aware that you EU socialist/commie fascists sneakily look after your own then, and its time we started doing so.

25 years ago, I used to travel to the Bering Sea to do transshipments with ships from Eastern Bloc nations. The person I did business with, holding the same rank and educational background as me, earned about 2% of my wage. I think he worked harder for it too. From that moment on I knew the world was going to change and no force on earth could stop that change.

Guess what , it's changing. It's not a bad thing, its a good thing, but it sure is messy.

Edited March 3, 2009 by lannarebirth

[Naam]

Sarkozy the cheer leader of Eurofascism only this week implimented protectionist laws to protect the French car workers at the expense of the rest of Eurozome workers, and protecting a countries own workers is possible all we need to do is pull out of the fascist EU, though in true fascist manner EU fascists will make threats to the UK if we do, you are aware the EU was set up as a trade zone, but you EU fascists keep on moving the goalposts.

I want free trade of goods with Euro fascists and the rest of the world but i and the majority of this country dont want to be governed by EU fascists or have to pay 60 Billion a year in bureaucracy fees to pay for fascist bureaucrats, and we dont want unlimited immigration of cheap workers as it lowers our wages and standard of life THIS IS A FACT, but play the racism card if you will.

3 years ago my fathers company were looking to get some ships built, they chose Holland over England as the shipyard recevied government subsidies plus there were tax incentives to build it there, hardly what you'd call a level playing field, but us Brits are well aware that you EU socialist fascists sneakily look after your own then, and its time we started doing so.

is it that serious being a loser?

Edited March 3, 2009 by Naam

[Merangue]

If England would have joined the Eurocountries they would have suffered much less from the depression. The pound has lost much more of its value then the Euro compared to the bath. A question of spreading the riscs and understanding what is going on in the world. I think the globalisation is unevitably.

If other countries have much lower wages it means they can produce much cheaper, so the buyer will go there, they get richer, can give bigger wages etc. Protecting only the own nationals is no longer possible in a globalising world.

If Britain had been in the Euro during the boom years we'd have had even lower interest rates and the property boom would have been even worse, look at Ireland and Spain as examples, over the long term if Britain is to get out this depression we need to build a manufacturing industry hence a weak pound is a good thing. Furthermore Britain has got a lot of its bad news out already the bad news from Eurozone is about to come to the fore with several countries ie Spain Greece Italy Ireland all in far worse positions then Britain, with a currency thats strong to suit the Germans/Dutch/French going to stop any chance of a quick recovery for them.

Sarkozy the cheer leader of Eurofascism only this week implimented protectionist laws to protect the French car workers at the expense of the rest of Eurozome workers, and protecting a countries own workers is possible all we need to do is pull out of the fascist EU, though in true fascist manner EU fascists will make threats to the UK if we do, you are aware the EU was set up as a trade zone, but you EU fascists keep on moving the goalposts.

I want free trade of goods with Euro fascists and the rest of the world but i and the majority of this country dont want to be governed by EU fascists or have to pay 60 Billion a year in bureaucracy fees to pay for fascist bureaucrats, and we dont want unlimited immigration of cheap workers as it lowers our wages and standard of life THIS IS A FACT, but play the racism card if you will.

3 years ago my fathers company were looking to get some ships built, they chose Holland over England as the shipyard recevied government subsidies plus there were tax incentives to build it there, hardly what you'd call a level playing field, but us Brits are well aware that you EU socialist fascists sneakily look after your own then, and its time we started doing so.

The scary thing is that in many ways i actually agree with this rant.

Keep me out of the EU and the Eurozone as i think they are going to be the long term losers.

Britain is an island. It may get a bit wet at times but it will always stay afloat. Same for the economy.

[sanmiguel]

Sarkozy the cheer leader of Eurofascism only this week implimented protectionist laws to protect the French car workers at the expense of the rest of Eurozome workers, and protecting a countries own workers is possible all we need to do is pull out of the fascist EU, though in true fascist manner EU fascists will make threats to the UK if we do, you are aware the EU was set up as a trade zone, but you EU fascists keep on moving the goalposts.

I want free trade of goods with Euro fascists and the rest of the world but i and the majority of this country dont want to be governed by EU fascists or have to pay 60 Billion a year in bureaucracy fees to pay for fascist bureaucrats, and we dont want unlimited immigration of cheap workers as it lowers our wages and standard of life THIS IS A FACT, but play the racism card if you will.

3 years ago my fathers company were looking to get some ships built, they chose Holland over England as the shipyard recevied government subsidies plus there were tax incentives to build it there, hardly what you'd call a level playing field, but us Brits are well aware that you EU socialist fascists sneakily look after your own then, and its time we started doing so.

is it that serious being a loser?

Is such a winner as yourself not aware that the Irish voted against the EU constitution hence making it nul and void, but the fascists carried on with their mandate against the will of the people, and as only fascists do, totally ignored democracy and this referendum.

Britain was promised a vote by Gordon "Global newdeal" Brown and Tony "peace envoy" Bliar, we never got it, what are they afraid of?

How many times do you think it will take the Swiss to vote no to the EU before they understand.

Its the European Union which threatens to remove trial by jury and habeas corpus, Chairman Moa, Hitler and Stalin would be proud of them.

The EU is without doubt a fascist regime, that continues to expand and invade all parts of society despite losing a never ending stream of referendums.

All i and most British subjects want is what the EU trade zone was set up for, ie free trade with nations in the EU, not that difficult to understand is it? surely anyone who enjoys freedom and doesnt like unaffordable government and a never ending stream of bureaucratic nonsense laws that hinder business agree.

Edited March 3, 2009 by sanmiguel

[sanmiguel]

The scary thing is that in many ways i actually agree with this rant.

There is nothing scary about agreeing with facts and wanting what the now fascist EU was originally set up for. The EU fascists love to make out people who dont agree with their regime as evil racist nationalists, when its nothing more then wanting what is best for ones self, which is exactly what theyre doing with the bottomless expenses and gold plated pension schemes of the EU gravy train.

[PeaceBlondie]

Heading for a depression, with no recovery in sight. It pained me to pull out some cash at these depressed values to build my house, but at my age, a retirement home is a good....I hate to use the word, but...investment.

NO it is not an investment PB! you did the right thing though. the roof over your head is a major part of lifestyle. i pity those who think otherwise.

Well, I was not sure what word to use, and as soon as I wrote 'investment,' I knew it was wrong. Maybe I meant icky, or icthyology, or Icarus flying off the cliff. One of my best friends just pulled out of funds (Fidelity Flaggelation, I think) and his net worth is half what it was in Nov. 2007. That is a major depression, individually. But he has not paid for a mortgage his whole life, and bought his current condo for half what it is worth at its currently depressed price. As Donna Summers said, I will survive. This house will be paid off in just a few years at zero interest.

[Jingthing]

Related topic. Talking to some friends of mine, we all admire that Obama is trying hard but we also all agree he will most likely fail in trying to fix the economy. That will indeed leave us in a much worse place than even we are in now. What happens after that? Possibly, the far right wing takes power and possibly real hard core fascism. Aside from economic pain that is scariest thing about hard times, radical ideas can take over as they did in Germany in the third reich.

[sanmiguel]

Related topic. Talking to some friends of mine, we all admire that Obama is trying hard but we also all agree he will most likely fail in trying to fix the economy. That will indeed leave us in a much worse place than even we are in now. What happens after that? Possibly, the far right wing takes power and possibly real hard core fascism. Aside from economic pain that is scariest thing about hard times, radical ideas can take over as they did in Germany in the third reich.

How can the far right whoever they are take power, there are 2 very similar parties in America neither of them is far right economically they both from their actions believe in greater taxation and with the media not promoting any new party the status quo isnt likely to change soon.

Bush's government have overseen the highest peacetime borrowing which has to be paid back, this is just another form of taxation this can hardly be viewed as common sense right wing economics, Bush was also intent on overseeing a similar Keynesian borrowing and spending plan to Obama, aswell as doing something similar in Iraq and Afghanistan.

However this future "left wing like" higher taxation to pay back the debt means the government have a tighter control on our finances, thus if someone has a greater share of your money they have a greater control over your life, so you may label me as a evil right winger but i believe colossal size government is a very very very bad thing.

IMO it would be good if some far right wingers take power, ones that believe in quality education and healthcare for all workers and their family, with less spend on military, and smaller government with less Public sector workers who currently receive unaffordable pensions that in the coming years will put the Western govts. further in debt.

Edited March 3, 2009 by sanmiguel

[Jingthing]

MO it would be good if some far right wingers take power,

I meant fascists.

[sanmiguel]

MO it would be good if some far right wingers take power,

I meant fascists.

Good just so you know fascists arent right wing, im not too sure what wing they are, but we who wish for less government and lower taxes dont wish to be associated with them any longer, along with the KKK, Nazism, White supremisists etc... just as those on the left dont wish to be linked with commies such as Stalin and Mao.

[OriginalPoster]

Related topic. Talking to some friends of mine, we all admire that Obama is trying hard but we also all agree he will most likely fail in trying to fix the economy. That will indeed leave us in a much worse place than even we are in now. What happens after that? Possibly, the far right wing takes power and possibly real hard core fascism. Aside from economic pain that is scariest thing about hard times, radical ideas can take over as they did in Germany in the third reich.

Nah, more likely to go the other direction.

[Jingthing]

Looks like my avatar. I don't think it would go further left. In a crisis, people REACT against.

[lannarebirth]

Related topic. Talking to some friends of mine, we all admire that Obama is trying hard but we also all agree he will most likely fail in trying to fix the economy. That will indeed leave us in a much worse place than even we are in now. What happens after that? Possibly, the far right wing takes power and possibly real hard core fascism. Aside from economic pain that is scariest thing about hard times, radical ideas can take over as they did in Germany in the third reich.

You don't tink you've seen any radical idas thusfar? Stocks climbing for years on 'pro forma" accounting principles? Lending money to people who have zero ability to repay their debt? The ability to leverage debt to 30-50 times of the poorly accessed underlying value? It's been Bizarro World for years and years.

You don't think its strange that the government is making good the poor investment decisions of private enterprises and that they are being advised by those same "captains of finance"? And tat they are paying several multiples of valuations?

Edited March 3, 2009 by lannarebirth

[sanmiguel]

^^^^^^

The ironic thing is people kind of expect this to happen when the law makers and super rich <deleted> up on a gigantic scale, so it isnt seen as radical just the norm.

[Carmine6]

Related topic. Talking to some friends of mine, we all admire that Obama is trying hard but we also all agree he will most likely fail in trying to fix the economy. That will indeed leave us in a much worse place than even we are in now. What happens after that? Possibly, the far right wing takes power and possibly real hard core fascism. Aside from economic pain that is scariest thing about hard times, radical ideas can take over as they did in Germany in the third reich.

You don't tink you've seen any radical idas thusfar? Stocks climbing for years on 'pro forma" accounting principles? Lending money to people who have zero ability to repay their debt? The ability to leverage debt to 30-50 times of the poorly accessed underlying value? It's been Bizarro World for years and years.

You don't think its strange that the government is making good the poor investment decisions of private enterprises and that they are being advised by those same "captains of finance"? And tat they are paying several multiples of valuations?

Obama's radical idea is to increase government debt to $17 trillion by his last year, up from $10 trillion this year. This is even accounting for his tax increases, a wind down in Iraq, government efficienies, cap and trade carbon taxes, etc. If we see term 2, it gets to $21 trillion.

Apparently you can keep rolling US Treasuries forever and no one will notice.

Click the "Read the Full Budget" and go to the 3rd to last page.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/

[dutchguest]

If England would have joined the Eurocountries they would have suffered much less from the depression. The pound has lost much more of its value then the Euro compared to the bath. A question of spreading the riscs and understanding what is going on in the world. I think the globalisation is unevitably.

If other countries have much lower wages it means they can produce much cheaper, so the buyer will go there, they get richer, can give bigger wages etc. Protecting only the own nationals is no longer possible in a globalising world.

If Britain had been in the Euro during the boom years we'd have had even lower interest rates and the property boom would have been even worse, look at Ireland and Spain as examples, over the long term if Britain is to get out this depression we need to build a manufacturing industry hence a weak pound is a good thing. Furthermore Britain has got a lot of its bad news out already the bad news from Eurozone is about to come to the fore with several countries ie Spain Greece Italy Ireland all in far worse positions then Britain, with a currency thats strong to suit the Germans/Dutch/French going to stop any chance of a quick recovery for them.

Sarkozy the cheer leader of Eurofascism only this week implimented protectionist laws to protect the French car workers at the expense of the rest of Eurozome workers, and protecting a countries own workers is possible all we need to do is pull out of the fascist EU, though in true fascist manner EU fascists will make threats to the UK if we do, you are aware the EU was set up as a trade zone, but you EU fascists keep on moving the goalposts.

I want free trade of goods with Euro fascists and the rest of the world but i and the majority of this country dont want to be governed by EU fascists or have to pay 60 Billion a year in bureaucracy fees to pay for fascist bureaucrats, and we dont want unlimited immigration of cheap workers as it lowers our wages and standard of life THIS IS A FACT, but play the racism card if you will.

3 years ago my fathers company were looking to get some ships built, they chose Holland over England as the shipyard recevied government subsidies plus there were tax incentives to build it there, hardly what you'd call a level playing field, but us Brits are well aware that you EU socialist fascists sneakily look after your own then, and its time we started doing so.

Part of globalisation is the devellopment of technology like television, internet, airplanes etc. which connects the whole world and makes a lot of info accessable to everybody.

If you want England to stay an island in the world you better stop this devellopment too, close your ears and eyes and keep on dreaming of the past glory of the british empire.

I predict that England will sink under the waterlevel, if not litterally through raising sealevels, then certainly in all other respects.

[sanmiguel]

Part of globalisation is the devellopment of technology like television, internet, airplanes etc. which connects the whole world and makes a lot of info accessable to everybody.

If you want England to stay an island in the world you better stop this devellopment too, close your ears and eyes and keep on dreaming of the past glory of the british empire.

I predict that England will sink under the waterlevel, if not litterally through raising sealevels, then certainly in all other respects.

Well as British people invented the Jet engine to create modern aircraft, the internet in its present form and Television we should be ok on that score, i dont care about the British empire i was born 30 years after it existed in any serious form, also i am not an imperialist unlike what you EU fascist aspire to be, i believe we should scrap the monarchy.

If you read what i said, i would like free trade with every nation who recipricates this, but i dont wish to be governed by un elected French/Germans or Brits. It is EU with its bureaucratic stifling of business that will enable developing nations such as China to overtake western societies in technology and business, hence why America for the last 100 years has surpassed all major EU nations in innovation, technology and business.

Furthermore the UK and US have the most open markets in the world letting poorer nations fill our shelves with their goods, as you go to Thailand you must be aware that they dont recipricate this agreement and put tariff's on many of our goods, so why should we carry on exporting billions in cash to these countries when the current agreement is detrimental to British jobs.

Now if you would like to critique what i have written please do so, but dont make out i am someone who dreams of Englands great past when what i am writing is about preserving my future and that of my childrens.

Besides youre from Holland and already underwater!

[sanmiguel]

Obama's radical idea is to increase government debt to $17 trillion by his last year, up from $10 trillion this year. This is even accounting for his tax increases, a wind down in Iraq, government efficienies, cap and trade carbon taxes, etc. If we see term 2, it gets to $21 trillion.

Apparently you can keep rolling US Treasuries forever and no one will notice.

Click the "Read the Full Budget" and go to the 3rd to last page.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/

I read page 1, a "New Era of Responsibility" you got to love the marketing phenomenon that is Barack Obama.

[Chaimai]

Besides youre from Holland and already underwater!

I just thought I would research the Dutch contribution to the world and was surprised to see they have the most dense population in Europe.

Also surprisingly, the microscope, the telescope, pendulum clock and the mercury thermometer are all 16th or 17th century Dutch inventions. About half of its surface area is less than 1 metre above sea level.

Their saving grace is that Gin was invented in the Netherlands under the name of Jenever.

[sanmiguel]

I just thought I would research the Dutch contribution to the world and was surprised to see they have the most dense population in Europe.

England has recently overtaken them -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-in-Europe.html

Another reason to stop unlimited immigration.

[Carmine6]

Obama's radical idea is to increase government debt to $17 trillion by his last year, up from $10 trillion this year. This is even accounting for his tax increases, a wind down in Iraq, government efficienies, cap and trade carbon taxes, etc. If we see term 2, it gets to $21 trillion.

Apparently you can keep rolling US Treasuries forever and no one will notice.

Click the "Read the Full Budget" and go to the 3rd to last page.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/

I read page 1, a "New Era of Responsibility" you got to love the marketing phenomenon that is Barack Obama.

I just checked my calendar and the year says 1984.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Carmine6

[Chaimai]

I just thought I would research the Dutch contribution to the world and was surprised to see they have the most dense population in Europe.

England has recently overtaken them -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-in-Europe.html

Another reason to stop unlimited immigration.

Amen to that. I can't see that it is a policy that would work anywhere.

[Naam]

The scary thing is that in many ways i actually agree with this rant.

There is nothing scary about agreeing with facts and wanting what the now fascist EU was originally set up for. The EU fascists love to make out people who dont agree with their regime as evil racist nationalists, when its nothing more then wanting what is best for ones self, which is exactly what theyre doing with the bottomless expenses and gold plated pension schemes of the EU gravy train.

i don't disagree with many of your points SanMiguel but just find your "fascist ranting" quite ridiculous. what happens on a daily basis in Brussels is a stinking scandal but it doesn't bother me at all because none of my tax money is wasted by EU-bureaucrats.

[dutchguest]

Part of globalisation is the devellopment of technology like television, internet, airplanes etc. which connects the whole world and makes a lot of info accessable to everybody.

If you want England to stay an island in the world you better stop this devellopment too, close your ears and eyes and keep on dreaming of the past glory of the british empire.

I predict that England will sink under the waterlevel, if not litterally through raising sealevels, then certainly in all other respects.

Well as British people invented the Jet engine to create modern aircraft, the internet in its present form and Television we should be ok on that score, i dont care about the British empire i was born 30 years after it existed in any serious form, also i am not an imperialist unlike what you EU fascist aspire to be, i believe we should scrap the monarchy.

If you read what i said, i would like free trade with every nation who recipricates this, but i dont wish to be governed by un elected French/Germans or Brits. It is EU with its bureaucratic stifling of business that will enable developing nations such as China to overtake western societies in technology and business, hence why America for the last 100 years has surpassed all major EU nations in innovation, technology and business.

Furthermore the UK and US have the most open markets in the world letting poorer nations fill our shelves with their goods, as you go to Thailand you must be aware that they dont recipricate this agreement and put tariff's on many of our goods, so why should we carry on exporting billions in cash to these countries when the current agreement is detrimental to British jobs.

Now if you would like to critique what i have written please do so, but dont make out i am someone who dreams of Englands great past when what i am writing is about preserving my future and that of my childrens.

Besides youre from Holland and already underwater!

We can always travel eastwards when the water comes, in England you have to be a very good swimmer to survive.

I agreee that there is a lot wrong in the world, unneccesary burocracy, bancdirectors earning millions while the bancs go bancrupt etc.

But the point is England can at the moment in many respects not compete with the low-wage countries. Countries like China and Thailand had the last years a big economic growth, while the west was stagnating and is now (partially) collapsing economicly.

I think you want to go back to the past, to restore the situation of 10/20 years ago, but there is no way back, we have past that point. It is a fact that the world is globalising, if you like it or not, and we have to adapt to that situation. Swimming against the stream of history brings you nowhere.

There is a big difference between the imperialism of the past and the way Hitler wanted to create a big empire and what is going on now in Europe where countries think they can better work together to survive economicly on the worldmarket and adapt to a changing world.

[sanmiguel]

But the point is England can at the moment in many respects not compete with the low-wage countries. Countries like China and Thailand had the last years a big economic growth, while the west was stagnating and is now (partially) collapsing economicly.

I agree we cant compete with China and its low paid workers wages, that are artificially low due to China not letting their currency float on the free market, this is the ultimate protectionism so why should we carry on letting China have open access to our markets when it is detrimental to British industry, the reason is China is good for the few wealthy Globalist ruling elite western businessmen and their profits margins.

But my point is about potentially allowing 10s of million low skilled East European workers into my country at the expense of the surpressed working class British worker, this can be stopped and was by many major EU nations. All i and most British i speak to want is to trade with countries not to become one with them.

I think you want to go back to the past, to restore the situation of 10/20 years ago, but there is no way back, we have past that point. It is a fact that the world is globalising, if you like it or not, and we have to adapt to that situation. Swimming against the stream of history brings you nowhere.

I agree as the 3 main parties in the UK are all EU loving globalists with even the fat pig Union leaders backing foreign labour over that of the indigenous British workforce, any party who goes against them is labelled as extremist and doesnt get enough press coverage, its a pity as there is a great opening for an anti EU party slightly to the right of the Conservative party.

Me personally, im going to become a tax exile in the coming year or 2 so i will no longer be funding the LIB-LAB-CON and EU regime, its the only way i can protest and have a small personally victory.

Edited March 4, 2009 by sanmiguel

[Lasic1]

Hello Naam, man of wisdom and intellectual insights! Well I think your comment depends on where you live. Lots of Chinese are heading back to the provinces and Japan's exports are backing up at the docks. Myself, I would classify going back to the rice paddies as at least primitive, if not economically depressing. The news today from the western front was that the economic crisis in Europe and banking debacle makes the US problems pale by comparison. Far too many loans to the old eastern block are defaulting creating massive banking debts. Foreigners have been fleeing to the dollar thinking this currency is safer than their own. The dollar has appreciated against both the Euro and the Yen. Things are getting so bad in Japan that Toyota is asking the government for a huge loan. Personally the US being the first one in financial crisis will be the first one out. Aggressive if unproven stimulus initiatives will ultimately hit the right combination causing the banks and housing industry to heave ho and enter into recovery mode.

we are not in a global depression but -from all indications- most of the countries are already in or will face a recession within a short time. opinion the situation will deteriorate and those who forecast an improvement for end of 2009 or even 2010 will be proved wrong. whether the recession will develop into a full fledged global depression remains to be seen. by the way, no definition of "global depression" exists except the references to the 1920s and 1930s.

as always all afore said in my [not so] humble opion.

off topic remark for the gloom&doomers: history proves that any crisis provided excellent opportunities to increase ones wealth

[dutchguest]

But my point is about potentially allowing 10s of million low skilled East European workers into my country at the expense of the surpressed working class British worker, this can be stopped and was by many major EU nations. All i and most British i speak to want is to trade with countries not to become one with them.

I think this problem will solve itself: in the beginning we had a lot of Poles coming to Holland working under the price. Now there is a growing number of unemployed in Holland and it is no more so easy for them to find work. Some of them returning home when they find out Holland is not a paradise.

Also labourunions and government are keeping a closer eye that employers don't pay black or under the legal minimumwages. Other problems that disencourage employers are the language and the fact that they are more or less espected to find decent homes for the foreigners.

Nevertheless free travel within the Eurocountries to find work is far from realised for all countries and has to be introduced gradually. Insofar the gap between the richer and poorer countries becomes smaller the drive to move will diminish.