Should I Move To Jomtien/rayong?

[Tolley]

I live in a nice studio and drive a motorbike. I eat out every day and have plenty left over for entertainment & travel. Its a simple lifestyle and it only costs me about 55,000/month. You don't need $1,000,000. Especially if you find a job here or have a business that gives me an income. I make almost all my money through ecommerce. Can't retire because I'm too young(28) and have few assets.

As you say that is a simple lifestyle and sure it can be done but I can't live like that.

First I need a house and a car and I have a woman to take care of as well so you can see that it all depends on ones circumstances and the style of life that you have lived.

I would also need to get out of Thailand a couple of times a year so expenses start to mount very quickly.

[MeetJohnDoe]

I live in a nice studio and drive a motorbike. I eat out every day and have plenty left over for entertainment & travel. Its a simple lifestyle and it only costs me about 55K a month.

You are only a motorbike accident away from financial ruin...your own medical bills, those of someone you injure, or from property (another bike/car) you damage. And do you know, in Thailand, if you can't pay restitution you go to jail?

Especially if you find a job here or have a business that gives me an income. I make almost all my money through ecommerce.

You need capital to start a business...by your own admission you don't have any!

Can't retire because I'm too young(28) and have few assets.

And by the looks of things, you never will...little savings and not building any real wealth.

Have fun now...don't store-up any chestnuts...and enjoy hustling and grifting for any income for the rest of your days on earth.

[Orac]

I actually have $125,000, but It looks like I will be building her a house soon (another $25,000 gone) so I really only have $100,000. But that's it, no more money for the family.

LOL! You're going to build a house for her here for $25,000 (about 900,000 THB)? Do you expect to include electricity and running water for that price?

Seriously, there is no way that you can build a decent house for that money. It would be virtual shack. Yes, you would have electricity and running water. But very little else. You'd need to put in at least 2 million THB for a nice home for a family. And you should NEVER consider building a home without PERSONALLY touring the neighborhood. You also need to be personally involved in negotiating building plans, and ensure that you have a WRITTEN CONTRACT specifying the work to be done, and the FINAL COST (or, at least, a written "Not To Exceed" cost) for all of it. Thai contractors will cheat you out of every baht they can get with sub-standard materials, shoddy work, and additional "phantom" costs. YOU MUST BE THERE to make the deal, AND to monitor the work!

As I've said before, you need to give serious consideration to your DAILY LIFE OVER TIME when making such long term decisions as the move itself; and the specific location where you'll live.

I saw photos and I was told I could build a nice 3 bedroom/1 bathroom house in her village for under 1 million baht. We already have the land. Good advice on the house building. Now I'm a little worried.

1 million baht is plenty for a 3 bedroom house in a village if you have the land already. Just be careful the family doesn't go for something bigger - I have seen a couple of houses being built recently in our village where overseas boyfriends have put up the money and their girlfriends have started houses worth twice as much on the basis they can get more money from their sponsors further down the line.

[rolypie]

You will be buying a condo the size of a garage for that kind of money then stuck in it for 6 years as you will be not afford to do or go any where what kind of life is that?????

Stop chasing a dream which will turn in to a nightmare!!

[thaifever2007]

So, is this not the reason that you want to stay away from USA for 6 years?

You're a detective and a lawyer. Good job

[thaifever2007]

Have fun now...don't store-up any chestnuts...and enjoy hustling and grifting for any income for the rest of your days on earth.

Exactly. Have fun now, because there is no tomorrow. Sure, you can save and save, but then you'll become a misor. I work in order to make money so I can enjoy life and have the freedom to do as I please. My dad is an old man and has plenty of money. But one problem, he is too old to gain any pleasure from it.

[loong]

So, is this not the reason that you want to stay away from USA for 6 years?

You're a detective and a lawyer. Good job

Maybe it's about time that you sat down with your wife and discussed your options. I don't know if she is aware of your debts or not, but marriage is a partnership and she has a right to know. You will need to explain that you have an income of $3000 per month, but are spending $3000 plus $XX. Obviously, this is not sustainable and so you need to cut back. Your wife is learning English, I assume that you are paying for this. I'm sure that by now, she has a very good command of English and could look for a job (not so easy to find nowadays, I know). If you cannot manage on your income, you cannot continue to send $200 to her parents every month. If you don't have it, you can't send it.

You and your wife are in this together and will need to work together to resolve this situation. If she loves you and is happy with you, she will accept a few years of relative hardship to enable you to get back on your feet again financially.

If your wife is not prepared to cut back and work together with you towards a better life, then I'm afraid that you will have to face the fact that you are in a one sided relationship that is doomed to failure.

Your idea is to run from your debts for a cosy life in Thailand for 6 years, so that the Credit Card companies can no longer legally pursue you for payment. If you are right and you manage this, remember when you return to the USA, you will never be able to borrow money again. You will be a ZZZ credit risk. You think that you will be able to walk back into a job after 6 years? I wouldn't count on it.

Yes, you can live in Thailand cheaply, that's possible. 30,000 Baht per month?, I can live and support my family for 20,000 up in the boonies. That's just paying for the necessities. I wouldn't like to HAVE to live on 20,000 though. I spent 30,000 Baht on some furniture last week. Couple of months back - a new fridge freezer and some other stuff cost another 30,000 Baht. Next month we are buying a new bed. When we've finished buying everything for the house, money will be put by to buy some more land for my gf and in time, I hope, building a new house.

If you are going to try to live on such a small sum, although not exactly small in Thailand, it will still not be enough. There will be nothing for extras expenses when they arise. If you cannot live on more than $3000 per month in USA, you will NOT be able to sustain the same lifestyle for 30,000 Baht per month in Thailand, especially if sending 6,000 Baht to the parents.

You expect that your wife will work in an hotel or somewhere for 10,000 Baht per month and that this will help with the budget. If so, this will be very unusual. It is more likely that she will expect you to pay for the bills and the money that she earns will be hers to spend as she wishes.

Cashing in your pension and spending such a high % to build a house for your wife/family is foolish. Yes a house can be built for $25,000, Can be built for a third of that, but most likely, Farang involved, will be double. A German guy that I knew, borrowed money in Germany to finance a housebuilding. It started at 500,000 Baht. When it was finished it had cost him 2 miilion! His gf family did the building. An English girl I knew ended up spending 3 million to improve an existing property. The finished house was worth about 600,000. Oh and the family did the work.

If you move to Thailand and find that the money does not last for 6 years, what are you going to do? The interest on your debts will have compounded and you will limp back home to an even more impossible situation ( almost certainly without your wife).

I don't know about USA, but in the UK there are debt counseling services and they can often help to make your debt more manageable. It is usually better to talk to your creditors before it gets too desperate and try to make a new arrangement acceptable to everybody.

This is not a flaming post, I'm just trying to give some advice that I hope you will at least give some consideration. I hope that you think long and hard, exploring your options before making a decision.

I wish you all the best.

Loong

Edited March 28, 2009 by loong

[patsfangr]

....... You will need to explain that you have an income of $3000 per month, but are spending $3000 plus $XX. Obviously, this is not sustainable and so you need to cut back. ...

Give it up, Loong. This guy is an American who probably voted for Obama. Trying to convince such a person that you can't spend more than you earn, and keep borrowing more to support that spending, is a waste of time. They elected a man who proposes to do just that with the US economy! Of course, the difference is that the USA can't run to Thailand to escape the debt. It is doomed to simply become a financial slave to China.

(I'm going the miss the USA. I really loved growing up and living there for the first 60+ years of my life. I wonder how long the planet will last without her?)

[Jingthing]

His plan for Thailand is not so hot, but his life in the USA is not so hot either.

[loong]

....... You will need to explain that you have an income of $3000 per month, but are spending $3000 plus $XX. Obviously, this is not sustainable and so you need to cut back. ...

Give it up, Loong. This guy is an American who probably voted for Obama. Trying to convince such a person that you can't spend more than you earn, and keep borrowing more to support that spending, is a waste of time. They elected a man who proposes to do just that with the US economy! Of course, the difference is that the USA can't run to Thailand to escape the debt. It is doomed to simply become a financial slave to China.

(I'm going the miss the USA. I really loved growing up and living there for the first 60+ years of my life. I wonder how long the planet will last without her?)

Same in UK, good old Gordon Brown, but of course the government doesn't have to suffer the consequences of their actions. The ordinary working man does.

It's a very old saying but still true - adapted to USA$ income $1 expenditure $1,05 = misery. Income $1 expenditure 95 Cents = happiness. When I was young, I was careless with money, but I learnt how true this saying was, and I stick with it.

[Tolley]

....... You will need to explain that you have an income of $3000 per month, but are spending $3000 plus $XX. Obviously, this is not sustainable and so you need to cut back. ...

Give it up, Loong. This guy is an American who probably voted for Obama. Trying to convince such a person that you can't spend more than you earn, and keep borrowing more to support that spending, is a waste of time. They elected a man who proposes to do just that with the US economy! Of course, the difference is that the USA can't run to Thailand to escape the debt. It is doomed to simply become a financial slave to China.

(I'm going the miss the USA. I really loved growing up and living there for the first 60+ years of my life. I wonder how long the planet will last without her?)

What has Obama got to do with anything?

It may come as a surprise to you but the financial crisis started well before Obama was in office.

Anyway the OP really needs to look at trying to make more money not running off to Thailand on a whim and a prayer.

[patsfangr]

What has Obama got to do with anything?

It may come as a surprise to you but the financial crisis started well before Obama was in office.

Anyway the OP really needs to look at trying to make more money not running off to Thailand on a whim and a prayer.

I was simply noting the parallel of Obama's agenda with the economic mess that the OP created for himself.

As for the history of the financial crisis, it began with the sub-prime mortgage crisis running amock. That process was created by Democrats, and supported by Obama, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and dozens of other Democrats. Those 3, of course, were the #1, #2, and #3 recipients of campaign funds from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Those are facts, Tolley. In fact is WAS Obama, and his fellow liberals, who planted the seeds for the economic mess we're all in now!

But you are totally right about the OP. He must not follow the Obama path. He needs to make sound financial decisions, including paying DOWN his debt (not increasing it, as Obama would have him do), and making more money than he spends (also contrary to Obama's agenda). No one, not an individual, and certainly not a nation, can spend and borrow their way out of economic problems!

[loong]

....... You will need to explain that you have an income of $3000 per month, but are spending $3000 plus $XX. Obviously, this is not sustainable and so you need to cut back. ...

Give it up, Loong. This guy is an American who probably voted for Obama. Trying to convince such a person that you can't spend more than you earn, and keep borrowing more to support that spending, is a waste of time. They elected a man who proposes to do just that with the US economy! Of course, the difference is that the USA can't run to Thailand to escape the debt. It is doomed to simply become a financial slave to China.

(I'm going the miss the USA. I really loved growing up and living there for the first 60+ years of my life. I wonder how long the planet will last without her?)

What has Obama got to do with anything?

It may come as a surprise to you but the financial crisis started well before Obama was in office.

This whole financial crisis started with sub prime lending to ethnic minorities, people like Obama accused the Banks of being racist in not allowing ethnic minorities to have the same loans as the whites. The banks were forced by congress (supported by Obama) to advance these loans to people who could not afford the repayments when the initial low interest periods were over.

Admittedly, that's not the whole story - for some reason, these loans were packaged as low risk and sold on the international markets. So really it's the risk analysts that are ultimately to blame. The risk analysts were banking on house prices increasing and so the expected number of defaults would not cause a problem. Of course there were a higher number of defaults than the analysts expected and house prices dropped so leading to more defaults. The international money market makers panicked and pulled the rug from under other money lenders that relied on finance from interbank lending.

Although panic was the main cause of the current situation, the catalyst was sub prime lending in the US and Obama, definitely helped make this happen.

Anyway the OP really needs to look at trying to make more money not running off to Thailand on a whim and a prayer.

Maybe not make more money, but manage his finances better than he has done. I'm sorry to say that so often it is not easy to manage one's budget in a sensible way, when you are married to a Thai. So often they have unrealistic expectations and the man will try not to disappoint them. I do believe that it is highly likely that Thaifever cannot afford his wife's expectations and has got into financial problems tring to live up to her financial expectations.

[thaifever2007]

So, is this not the reason that you want to stay away from USA for 6 years?

You're a detective and a lawyer. Good job

Maybe it's about time that you sat down with your wife and discussed your options. I don't know if she is aware of your debts or not, but marriage is a partnership and she has a right to know. You will need to explain that you have an income of $3000 per month, but are spending $3000 plus $XX. Obviously, this is not sustainable and so you need to cut back. Your wife is learning English, I assume that you are paying for this. I'm sure that by now, she has a very good command of English and could look for a job (not so easy to find nowadays, I know). If you cannot manage on your income, you cannot continue to send $200 to her parents every month. If you don't have it, you can't send it.

You and your wife are in this together and will need to work together to resolve this situation. If she loves you and is happy with you, she will accept a few years of relative hardship to enable you to get back on your feet again financially.

If your wife is not prepared to cut back and work together with you towards a better life, then I'm afraid that you will have to face the fact that you are in a one sided relationship that is doomed to failure.

Your idea is to run from your debts for a cosy life in Thailand for 6 years, so that the Credit Card companies can no longer legally pursue you for payment. If you are right and you manage this, remember when you return to the USA, you will never be able to borrow money again. You will be a ZZZ credit risk. You think that you will be able to walk back into a job after 6 years? I wouldn't count on it.

Yes, you can live in Thailand cheaply, that's possible. 30,000 Baht per month?, I can live and support my family for 20,000 up in the boonies. That's just paying for the necessities. I wouldn't like to HAVE to live on 20,000 though. I spent 30,000 Baht on some furniture last week. Couple of months back - a new fridge freezer and some other stuff cost another 30,000 Baht. Next month we are buying a new bed. When we've finished buying everything for the house, money will be put by to buy some more land for my gf and in time, I hope, building a new house.

If you are going to try to live on such a small sum, although not exactly small in Thailand, it will still not be enough. There will be nothing for extras expenses when they arise. If you cannot live on more than $3000 per month in USA, you will NOT be able to sustain the same lifestyle for 30,000 Baht per month in Thailand, especially if sending 6,000 Baht to the parents.

You expect that your wife will work in an hotel or somewhere for 10,000 Baht per month and that this will help with the budget. If so, this will be very unusual. It is more likely that she will expect you to pay for the bills and the money that she earns will be hers to spend as she wishes.

Cashing in your pension and spending such a high % to build a house for your wife/family is foolish. Yes a house can be built for $25,000, Can be built for a third of that, but most likely, Farang involved, will be double. A German guy that I knew, borrowed money in Germany to finance a housebuilding. It started at 500,000 Baht. When it was finished it had cost him 2 miilion! His gf family did the building. An English girl I knew ended up spending 3 million to improve an existing property. The finished house was worth about 600,000. Oh and the family did the work.

If you move to Thailand and find that the money does not last for 6 years, what are you going to do? The interest on your debts will have compounded and you will limp back home to an even more impossible situation ( almost certainly without your wife).

I don't know about USA, but in the UK there are debt counseling services and they can often help to make your debt more manageable. It is usually better to talk to your creditors before it gets too desperate and try to make a new arrangement acceptable to everybody.

This is not a flaming post, I'm just trying to give some advice that I hope you will at least give some consideration. I hope that you think long and hard, exploring your options before making a decision.

I wish you all the best.

Loong

Thanks for the good advice. I'm listening.

[thaifever2007]

I thought I was smart. I've been to Thailand many times, I've every Thailand book I could find (Private Dancer, Thaifever, etc...), and I've read the forums. But yet I dug myself a trap. First, sending money to her Mom every month, then buying land, now buying a house soon. I love her and I'm willing to do this, but I know I may get burned. If I do, it will be my own fault. I knew exactly the situation I was in.

My other problem is Pattaya is always in the back of my mind. I had a blast there and I can't forget it. It's like I'm hooked on crack. Maybe I need rehab and I should cut Thailand out of my life. Stop reading these forums and thinking about Thailand.

My other problem is maybe I'm not the marriage type. Maybe I'm a lone wolf and need to be out there on my own. But I have a great wife and I don't want to leave her. If I do, I can assure I will never find another like her.

[thaifever2007]

As for the history of the financial crisis, it began with the sub-prime mortgage crisis running amock. That process was created by Democrats, and supported by Obama, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and dozens of other Democrats. Those 3, of course, were the #1, #2, and #3 recipients of campaign funds from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Those are facts, Tolley. In fact is WAS Obama, and his fellow liberals, who planted the seeds for the economic mess we're all in now!

You're right, the Democrats planted the seeds and George Bush and his team watered that plant daily. Bush also encouraged low income people to buy houses they can't afford.

He spent billions on an unnecessary war in Iraq (although, I think we should of blew Afghanistan to pieces).

He created the Medicare prescription drug program. This is an endless entitlement that will end up costing trillions. And who will benifit from this, the big pharmacy companies.

America is in deep trouble in the future. And with Americans like me, the future doesn't look too bright.

[Tolley]

I still reckon you should look at ways of making more income.

You could involve your wife in this as well.

I dont care how much you budget 40K a year is still living on the bread line.

You will feel much better with more disposable income and you will redirect your energies away from your pie in the sky fantasies.

On a side note those that blame Obama for the financial crisis just don't understand the whole picture.

A number of eminent economists have been predicting an economic cataclysm going back 10 years ago.

The debt bubble is at the root of it and this was around long before Obama was on the scene.

Americans have been living beyond their means for many years now with most people mortgaged and credit card debted up to the hilt. It only takes one incident like the sub prime to light the fuse that has lead to the current economic meltdown because so many people are riding very close to the wind.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

I'm married to a Thai girl and live in America. My wife has her permanent residence card and can come and go to America as she pleases I have a secure job that pays $40,000/year. I'm 44 years old and I need a change. I have money saved in an IRA. I can take it out now, but I will have a 10% penalty and have to pay taxes. After taxes and penalties, I should have $100,000 free and clear. I also have a lot of credit card bills. I can't keep up with all these bills and going to work everyday just to keep my head above water. I'm drowning here. I need some freedom from work and bills so I can regain my sanity. I'm thinking of cashing out and wiring my $100,000 to a Thai bank account. I can buy a condo in Rayong or Jomtien for $40,000. Then I have $60,000 (2,100,000 baht) left. I'd like to live in Thailand for 6 years, then come back to my old job in America (I'm not burning bridges there), work until I'm 62 years old, retire again, and then move back to Thailand to grow old and die. My budget would be about 30,000 baht/month (2.1 million baht/6 years). My wife can get a job at a hotel or something and make 10,000 baht/month. We won't have any rent because we would own the condo and we'll have 40,000/baht for living expenses. Are there any unforseen problems I haven't thought of? What would you guys do? I am a little worried about being tempted by all those young beautiful Thai girls. I also like to drink beer and I'm worried too much free time would turn me into an alcoholic.

You have enough saving and you could also sell some stuff online when you are in Thailand between 2 beers, so don't listen the jealous ;-) and move, life is not made to work like a slave until you die, especially in US or Europe.

Girls and alcohol are not a problem, just don't bring them at home as a smart guy said.

So quit that boring life there and enjoy.

The only risk I see is that you will never want to go back !

[thaifever2007]

You have enough saving and you could also sell some stuff online when you are in Thailand between 2 beers, so don't listen the jealous ;-) and move, life is not made to work like a slave until you die, especially in US or Europe.

Girls and alcohol are not a problem, just don't bring them at home as a smart guy said.

So quit that boring life there and enjoy.

The only risk I see is that you will never want to go back !

I've thought about e-commerce, but I've no experience and I wonder how people make money selling things online. The only way I know I how to make money online is at playing poker, but usually I'm on the losing end.

I feel a lot like you do. I don't want to be an old man and look back with regret. Take a risk and get out there in the world. So you fail, at least you won't have any regrets because you took that chance. I think most people regret not doing things they wanted to do, they don't regret taking chances on life. Don't be a slave to your job. Slavery was abolished long ago, freeeeeeeddddddoooooommmmmmmm.

[Jingthing]

Freedom and 30 baht will get you a small bowl of noodles.

[loong]

I feel a lot like you do. I don't want to be an old man and look back with regret. Take a risk and get out there in the world.... Slavery was abolished long ago .

I realise how lucky I am, compared to previous generations. My father had to work so hard just to keep a roof over our head and food on the table. In a way he was a slave to his duties as a Husband and Father. So maybe slavery wasn't abolished so long ago. In his later years, maybe because of years of struggling to make ends meet, he was just happy to be financially secure.

Compared to his and his Father's lives, people nowadays have it so easy, but for so many people it's not easy enough. If you want something badly enough, it can happen, but usually you have to make plans and work towards your ambition.

Running up debts and then running away may seem to be the easy way out, it just means that are unable to face up to your responsibilities and take the consequences for your actions.

A lot of people nowadays are finding life a lot harder than it was a while back. All the problems that have been caused by people taking on debt that they are either unable or unwilling to pay back is in one way or another affecting everybody.

If you want to move to Thailand, be realistic, plan it carefully and make contingency plans. Another poster has already pointed out to you the possible problems if you get sick. What if your wife does have a baby? Just things like diapers and baby milk could cost you 3000 Baht/month...mm 30,000 Baht/month- 6000 to the family, condo maintenance fee- ??Baht. If have baby, easily 10,000 Baht/month. Oh, of course, you like a beer, so 3 large Chang per day sitting with the C Charles ouside the mini mart. 3000 Baht/month. Food? well the 2 of you may be able to get by on 6,000 Baht. Electricity and water - well you may be able to live without aircon. But you'd better make sure there isn't a unit in any condo you buy, cos sure as eggs is eggs, you wife will have it on as often as possible. Something about Thai girls, aircon on full and 3 blankets. So you could be looking at 4 or 5000 Bt for power and water.

Really you need to sit and work out a sensible budget before jumping in half-cocked.

[staniraj]

As for the history of the financial crisis, it began with the sub-prime mortgage crisis running amock. That process was created by Democrats, and supported by Obama, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and dozens of other Democrats. Those 3, of course, were the #1, #2, and #3 recipients of campaign funds from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Those are facts, Tolley. In fact is WAS Obama, and his fellow liberals, who planted the seeds for the economic mess we're all in now!

You're right, the Democrats planted the seeds and George Bush and his team watered that plant daily. Bush also encouraged low income people to buy houses they can't afford.

He spent billions on an unnecessary war in Iraq (although, I think we should of blew Afghanistan to pieces).

He created the Medicare prescription drug program. This is an endless entitlement that will end up costing trillions. And who will benifit from this, the big pharmacy companies.

America is in deep trouble in the future. And with Americans like me, the future doesn't look too bright.

But Bush should never have been voted in for a 2nd term!!!

He borrowed USD$1 trillon from the Chinese to fight the Iraq war, that's where it all went wrong.

We Brits suffered as Blair was doing a good job before he got sucked (hood winked) into the Iraq war!!!

As to the credit crunch well all the world started living by the USA method ie by debt!!!

The USA always got away with it because Oil, Gold,etc are traded in USD!!!

But then the rest of the world started to live by borrowing and more borrowing. And in Europe and mainly in the UK, "hedge funds" dealers starting trading in every biz they were allowed in, remember this is "paper" trading not real trading and stupidly all the banks got involved in this and starting lending money out on "paper" also!!! so now the bubble burst!!!

Countries like China and India made fortunes in real trading not "paper". Infact China is probably holding more dollars then the USA itself!!!

But in London next week the G20 will sort all our problems!!!...I think NOT!!

One thing I found funny was that Thaksin thanked the Thai goverment for holding his fortune as he said he would have probably invested and would have lost most of it anyway!!!

[rgs2001uk]

You have enough saving and you could also sell some stuff online when you are in Thailand between 2 beers, so don't listen the jealous ;-) and move, life is not made to work like a slave until you die, especially in US or Europe.

Girls and alcohol are not a problem, just don't bring them at home as a smart guy said.

So quit that boring life there and enjoy.

The only risk I see is that you will never want to go back !

I've thought about e-commerce, but I've no experience and I wonder how people make money selling things online. The only way I know I how to make money online is at playing poker, but usually I'm on the losing end.

I feel a lot like you do. I don't want to be an old man and look back with regret. Take a risk and get out there in the world. So you fail, at least you won't have any regrets because you took that chance. I think most people regret not doing things they wanted to do, they don't regret taking chances on life. Don't be a slave to your job. Slavery was abolished long ago, freeeeeeeddddddoooooommmmmmmm.

There comes a time when its time to do the things you need to do, not the things you want to do, you just havent sussed that out yet.

As for the above nonsense about selling online, the amount of business cards I have been given by so called managing directors of import/export companies, come and see how they are living, even the Thais dont want to live in such squalor, these are basically e-bayers, or as they sometimes call themselves forex traders.

Dont worry about being an old man looking back with regret, just make sure to rent a ground floor condo.

[loong]

Dont worry about being an old man looking back with regret, just make sure to rent a ground floor condo.

Now that IS good advice

[KhunTina]

I haven't read all the posts here and I don't know where your thoughts are at present, but if you're interested, we have a contract to build a villa in a secure new housing estate which 1.2m baht deposit has been paid. We are looking for someone to take over the contract at a discounted price. If you're interested, send me a pm.

[thaifever2007]

Another question. Everybody always says "the bar scene gets old after 6 months".

Does the bar scene really get old in such a short time, even for an alcoholic?

Doesn't having sex with your wife get old in 2 - 5 years?

[thaifever2007]

I feel a lot like you do. I don't want to be an old man and look back with regret. Take a risk and get out there in the world.... Slavery was abolished long ago .

I realise how lucky I am, compared to previous generations. My father had to work so hard just to keep a roof over our head and food on the table. In a way he was a slave to his duties as a Husband and Father. So maybe slavery wasn't abolished so long ago. In his later years, maybe because of years of struggling to make ends meet, he was just happy to be financially secure.

Compared to his and his Father's lives, people nowadays have it so easy, but for so many people it's not easy enough. If you want something badly enough, it can happen, but usually you have to make plans and work towards your ambition.

Running up debts and then running away may seem to be the easy way out, it just means that are unable to face up to your responsibilities and take the consequences for your actions.

A lot of people nowadays are finding life a lot harder than it was a while back. All the problems that have been caused by people taking on debt that they are either unable or unwilling to pay back is in one way or another affecting everybody.

If you want to move to Thailand, be realistic, plan it carefully and make contingency plans. Another poster has already pointed out to you the possible problems if you get sick. What if your wife does have a baby? Just things like diapers and baby milk could cost you 3000 Baht/month...mm 30,000 Baht/month- 6000 to the family, condo maintenance fee- ??Baht. If have baby, easily 10,000 Baht/month. Oh, of course, you like a beer, so 3 large Chang per day sitting with the C Charles ouside the mini mart. 3000 Baht/month. Food? well the 2 of you may be able to get by on 6,000 Baht. Electricity and water - well you may be able to live without aircon. But you'd better make sure there isn't a unit in any condo you buy, cos sure as eggs is eggs, you wife will have it on as often as possible. Something about Thai girls, aircon on full and 3 blankets. So you could be looking at 4 or 5000 Bt for power and water.

Really you need to sit and work out a sensible budget before jumping in half-cocked.

3 bottles of beer 100 baht

food for a month 6000 baht

condo in Rayong 1.5 million baht

freedom and youth PRICELESS

seriously, I figured a budget of 30,000 baht will do just fine (with a condo paid for). The only thing I worry about are the surprises.

What if I get sick?

Visa and immigration problems?

wife always wanting more?

baby? (one reason I said 6 years is because if we have a baby. I can take care of it for 6 years. Then come back to the USA when the baby is ready to start school)

[patsfangr]

But Bush should never have been voted in for a 2nd term!!!

He borrowed USD$1 trillon from the Chinese to fight the Iraq war, that's where it all went wrong.

We Brits suffered as Blair was doing a good job before he got sucked (hood winked) into the Iraq war!!!

As to the credit crunch well all the world started living by the USA method ie by debt!!!

The USA always got away with it because Oil, Gold,etc are traded in USD!!!

But then the rest of the world started to live by borrowing and more borrowing. And in Europe and mainly in the UK, "hedge funds" dealers starting trading in every biz they were allowed in, remember this is "paper" trading not real trading and stupidly all the banks got involved in this and starting lending money out on "paper" also!!! so now the bubble burst!!!

Countries like China and India made fortunes in real trading not "paper". Infact China is probably holding more dollars then the USA itself!!!

But in London next week the G20 will sort all our problems!!!...I think NOT!!

One thing I found funny was that Thaksin thanked the Thai goverment for holding his fortune as he said he would have probably invested and would have lost most of it anyway!!!

Well said, on all points, Stan! However, you left out the fact that George Bush was doing damage to the USA (and, ultimately, the world) at the level of a strong thunderstorm. What Barack Obama is planning to do to it is continuous Category 5 hurricane!!

The same can be said for Thaifever's move from the USA to Thailand, should he make it. He'll certainly continue to struggle, economically, in the USA for some time; until he works his way through his debt problems. And it's certainly just as easy to slide into alcoholism in the USA as it is in Thailand. But the "butterfly" temptation, and availability, is much stronger in Pattaya than it is in the USA. There are many more attractive, young, and relatively drug free girls readily, and cheaply, available in Pattaya than is the case anywhere in the USA.

If you truly love your wife, Thaifever; and you want to give your marriage the best possible chance to survive; you really should stay in the USA, and work hard to straighten out your economic situation, without borrowing any further. Only you can answer the question regarding the depth of your love for your wife. If it's not there, then it's really no more risk for you to move to Pattaya than it is to stay in the USA for a few years.

[samuibeachcomber]

Another question. Everybody always says "the bar scene gets old after 6 months".

Does the bar scene really get old in such a short time, even for an alcoholic?

Doesn't having sex with your wife get old in 2 - 5 years?

sure the shine does wear off,but you can always change bars(easier than changing wives).

[patsfangr]

Another question. Everybody always says "the bar scene gets old after 6 months".

Does the bar scene really get old in such a short time, even for an alcoholic?

Doesn't having sex with your wife get old in 2 - 5 years?

A couple of interesting questions that drift away from your personal situation a bit; but certainly beg for some opinions. Here's mine.

Any "scene", or lifestyle, gets old after a while, unless it is truly feeds your core personality. For example, I don't do the bar scene here in Pattaya. I did, however, do the "sportsbar scene" in the USA, and it NEVER got old for me. I went to the same 2 or 3 places regularly, and had several regular buddies for conversation at each. Sometimes, we'd watch sports; sometimes we'd get into general conversation of politics, tv shows, relationships, whatever. I enjoyed those relationships, and it was those relationships, and, of course, the fact that I enjoy beer, that kept me linked to the sportsbars as an important element of my life. I think any bar scene will get old, unless the activity, and the people you meet, within the bar, satisfy that core personality need for you.

As for sex with your wife, I think that the sex, itself, does not become old. If you were strongly sexually attracted to her, and greatly sexually satisfied with her, in the early years of marriage, the same should be true as time goes on. The physical urge to respond to the natural "wandering eye" of the male will certainly grow stronger, as time goes on. So, the question then becomes whether the non-sexual elements of your love for your wife, and hers for you, is strong enough to allow you to control and suppress that physical urge for sex with other women who attract you physically. There is a reason why there are separate words for "love" and "lust". True love of another person is extremely long-lasting, reaching toward eternal. Lust, for the male of our species, is strongest when it first appears - at the first sight of female who fits your particular standards for beauty. But lust will rarely remain strong after a few good rolls in the hay, unless it is accompanied by some degree of love.

That's how this old man sees it. I make no moral judgements there. I'm just stating what I believe to be facts of life.