the pros, cons/risks of keeping weapons for self protection

[Ulysses G.]

You get only one shot and even if you get one guy the others would attack you and boy would they be angry about what you did to their friend. (A Glock would give you 20 rounds that you could fire from much further away).

Those electric weapons are good for situations where there are 20 policemen with loaded guns surrounding one guy with a knife. They taser him until he drops the weapon and then taser him a few more times and then all 20 kick the sheet out of him.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[BigSnake]

Bad idea, that sounds good but in my humble the downsides are just to great, i.e., guns falling into the wrong hands(young children) yes I know secure the darn things but my friends kids can get into the darnest things, you those child proof caps for medicine(that's another story), always a change of the heat of passion and a spouse turn it on a spouse, i.e., spouse returning home late and is mistaken for a theif. Lord knows I could go own>the upside you could the theif away pronto.

[eldar1]

If you truly feel unsafe, you could always go to bed like this:

[rixalex]

Question for you people in the anti-gun camp ... why do you always have a major league hard-on about those in the pro-gun camp?

I think actually your comment about major league hard-on very aptly describes the way a lot of the pro-gun group feel about being armed.

For the anti-gun camp i think it's just a simple case of feeling that the more guns there are in society, the more dangerous our lives become. Simple as that. And if we look at places around the world where gun ownership for protection (not for hunting) is more common, we see statistics to back this up.

The truth is that there are very few cases where the advantages of having a gun outweigh the disadvantages. People who don't absolutely need them, shouldn't have them, because in doing so they put us all at greater risk.

I live in a fairly densely populated part of Bangkok. If i were to believe the gun-loving scare-mongers on this forum, i could justifiably have grounds for owning a gun. And if i have the grounds, it would only be fair to say that the few thousand people i live amongst probably do too. So what happens if we all go out tomorrow and arm ourselves - all 3 or 4 thousand of us? Suddenly there's a gun in every household around me. Would that make my community immediately safe and free of crime as you would have us believe, or would there be a sudden increase in gun-related deaths and injuries? The answer is obvious to all those with a bit of sense.

[balo]

They are known as 'piezo screamers'. Ness, an Australian company sell them for AUD$15. You can get from Asia Security Corp. in Prathumthanee.

http://www.securicorps.co.th/contactus.html

If you have 4 or 5 of these in different rooms inside your house any intruder will want to get out as quick as possible. The unfortunate disadvantage of this approach is that you yourself will find it unbearable to stay in the house.

These things are painful & totally disorientating.

Now this is something useful , a much better solution than any guns .

Just have some ear plugs nearby to protect yourself and I'm sure any intruders will be running away faster than your dogs.

[Maizefarmer]

I'm sorry if this breaks forum rules, but I hope that the moderators will allow this thread to stay open. I ask posters to refrain from being flippant as this is a serious subject.

The last few days people have started to return to the village, Songkran is coming up and that's to be expected. Some of these people are ok, but some are the dregs of society, when they've been in the village, a lot of things go missing, they don't earn a living by working, but by stealing or scamming. There's not so many rich pickings in the tourist areas and they are back here now.

A main road runs very close to the village and recently people on motorbikes have been stopped and robbed. Today a lady was riding her motorbike home and her husband was following in their car. Two men stopped the motorbike and tried to rob the woman. Her husband in the car behind had a gun. He stopped and his wife ran back to him. When his wife was out of the way, he let off 3 shots but missed. The 2 men ran and he followed to our village. Everybody here knows who the men are (about 19 years old), but they will not tell the man, because he will kill them for sure.

We sleep with a super sharp machete in the room because my lady is scared of some of the people in the village. I'm ok with that as long as it is out of reach of the 3 year old daughter.

After this happened today, she has announced that she wants to get a gun!

I understand her fears, I am the only Farang in the village and an obvious target. But I really don't want to have a gun in the house. It would be an accident waiting to happen.

Has anybody else had experience of this?

Stats show that folk who carry a knife or gun, usualy wind up getting hurt themselves in the long run. The point is, in most cases an attack is so quick you havent got time to get access to it to protet yourself.

keeping one in the house though is a different story - but carrying it around with you - mmmm.......

[TAWP]

Stats show that folk who carry a knife or gun, usualy wind up getting hurt themselves in the long run. The point is, in most cases an attack is so quick you havent got time to get access to it to protet yourself.

No, it doesn't However stats show that they have a higher tendency to be involved in violence overall.

And that is in line with the fact that carrying knifes is in most countries illegal and those carrying it are the elements more proponent for violence already.

It's not the knife that brought them into the trouble, it's the element that brought the knife to their way of living [and into trouble].

[raylo]

What is it about Thailand that it attracts so many people who feel they must have a gun?

Any other day we'll have a discussion about safety and security in Thailand and two thirds of the people who respond will be threatening violence against anyone claiming Thailand is ought but the hight of safety and security (far better than anywhere else anyone could possibly come from).

What is it about forums that attract people who want to advise people on a subject they know nothing about?

If he wants a gun vis a vis his wife. Let him.

The rest can live in their own fantasy world.

[raylo]

Maybe it is mostly Northern Thailand as it has happened a lot here, especially in the boonies, but I would guess that both Pattaya and Phuket see a number of farang murders during robberies.

DUh I live in Northern Thailand, in an isolated location between 2 villages, no neighbours, have new car, expensive bike & lots more goodies that most of the villages within 30 square kilometres know about as I used local labour for the renovations.

According to this I should be dead, robbed, mugged or?? My biggest problem is neighbours sneaking in to catch small frogs when it rains.

Put everything into perspective.

Oh & while I should not advertise I do not have access to a gun it is my choice and if I want to I will without the advice of the judical panel avidly posting here.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, there are lots of people who have had no problems at all, but other people have been robbed and others raped and others are dead.

That is how life works.

[BSJ]

I was bought up on a farm with a gun rack full of rifles and shotguns. Once each of us got to 8 or 9 we started firearms training with a single shot .22.....so by the time we became adults we had plenty of experiences. I have no fear of good citizens being in possession of firearms.

But there is an obligation on all good citizens to be careful with their firearms. The problem has always been how to store your firearm and ammo whilst still having quick access. To protect little ones some sort of bedside draw or cupboard is needed with a catch that can only be activated by pushing a hidden button at the back as well as the one at front. Ok for an adult to activate but impossible for a child.

I'd recommend a small frame revolver. Today self loaders have 2 or 3 safeties and in a pressure situation in the middle of the night the last thing you want is to be worrying about getting everything right. With a revolver, unlock the draw, pickup the revolver, identify the target and fire! Double taps to the trunk of the body. Keep a speed loader in the same draw so you can reload in seconds. After the first perp goes down the others will probably run....unless of course they are after you, not your laptop and cell phone!

A Model 40 Smith & Wesson would be an ideal choice. Has a grip safety, .38 caliber, is hammerless so good for concealed carry and is reasonably light.

Edited April 7, 2009 by BSJ

[Spee]

Question for you people in the anti-gun camp ... why do you always have a major league hard-on about those in the pro-gun camp?

I think actually your comment about major league hard-on very aptly describes the way a lot of the pro-gun group feel about being armed.

You apparently missed my point. Pro-gun people aren't running around to all points emploring the anti-gun people to keep and bear arms, or compelling the central government to do it for them. The anti-gun crowd on the other hand .... well let's just say they tend to run rampant doing the exact opposite.

For the anti-gun camp i think it's just a simple case of feeling that the more guns there are in society, the more dangerous our lives become. Simple as that. And if we look at places around the world where gun ownership for protection (not for hunting) is more common, we see statistics to back this up.

Case in point. Those in the anti-gun camp feel obligated or compelled to "do their duty" to tell other people how to live their lives, to make complete societal judgments based solely upon their personal opinions. I'm sorry but this is typical liberal busy-body mentality.

With respect to this OP, you and I seem to have the same concluding opinion, that it probably not in the OP's best interests to keep a firearm in the expat Thailand home. However my pro-gun opinion is based upon rational thought and attempted consideration of all factors and risks, whereas your anti-gun opinion is essentially "fire and brimstone" from the evangelical pulpit. Huge huge huge difference, IMHO.

[barrybike]

the way things are going recession wise it might be no harm having a hand gun under the pillow

[rixalex]

You apparently missed my point.

As you missed mine.

You seem to think that gun ownership is entirely an individual's decision and he or she should be left alone without harrassment from busy-bodies to make that decision by themself. I don't agree. Society as a whole should have a say in this matter because it affects us all.

I have no fear of good citizens being in possession of firearms.

BSJ, may i ask exactly how it is we know who the good citizens are and who are not? How is this determination made?

And how have the many pro-gun posters on this thread been able to advise in favour of this chap arming himself, without ever having met him and with absolutely no background information on him or his wife? In fact, in all likelihood this gun will be available to not just him and his wife, but also a good number of close family and friends. I'm not saying that him and his wife necessarily would be giving them all consent, but all those people who know them well enough to spend time in the house could probably find a way to get their hands on it should they want to.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, I much prefer that NOONE be able to buy or sell guns or ammo. The problem is that, in too many countries, the genie is out of the bottle. Too many people already have them.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[rixalex]

Actually, I much prefer that NOONE be able to buy or sell guns or ammo. The problem is that, in too many countries, the genie is out of the bottle. Too many people already have them.

Agreed. But once the genie is out, is that it? Are you saying there's no point trying to stop the escalation of people being armed, living in our communities?

[mc2]

the way things are going recession wise it might be no harm having a hand gun under the pillow

you are right.

there is a distinct relationship between unemployment and crime rates.

if we get 30% unemployment we might have martial law or chaos

[bob6023]

As a retired Police officer,from Ca, I carry a gun in the states,a lot of the time. I still go to the range when I am there. I have a permit there.

However I know that a falang, just having a gun, is a big no- no. If you did shoot a home invader you are going to spend time in a Thai jail. You are going to be presumed guilty of murder or attemted murder until you prove it wasn't.

ll I'm saying is you don't want to keep a gun while you are here. I'm as pro gun ownership as anyone but not when I'm a guest in this country. Its not the same here as the states and you shouldn't forget that.

Just getting caught with a gun is going to cause you immense problems, let alone using it. God forbid that your wife or a relative gets mad at you and puts the word out to the BIB, you're toast.

[TAWP]

However I know that a falang, just having a gun, is a big no- no. If you did shoot a home invader you are going to spend time in a Thai jail. You are going to be presumed guilty of murder or attemted murder until you prove it wasn't.

I wouldn't be so paranoid.

Unless you are considered a bait for picking (aka they want bribes) you will not get into more trouble than a local for shooting a drugged up armed burgler. (Since if he was unarmed you wouldn't need to shoot him...)

And in 9 cases of 10 a shot would never have to be fired.

[coventry]

However I know that a falang, just having a gun, is a big no- no. If you did shoot a home invader you are going to spend time in a Thai jail. You are going to be presumed guilty of murder or attemted murder until you prove it wasn't.

Just getting caught with a gun is going to cause you immense problems, let alone using it.

Where to get your facts 'bob6023' in that "I know" ? You're all assumptions 'bob6023'. 'TAWP' is right, you won't get into trouble as you think. The police have no more liking for burglars than we do. If you read my previous post on this thread, you will see that a policeman gave me an illegal gun for self protection, after getting burgled. He even stated that 'if I shot anyone then 1500 Baht would sort things' ie having an illegal gun. A genuine man with a bribeable attitude. Please do not think that 'cause you're a farang, and you harm a Thai, that the police will side with the Thai. Wrong in my opinion. They're more likely to buy you a beer. Edited April 9, 2009 by coventry

[bob6023]

However I know that a falang, just having a gun, is a big no- no. If you did shoot a home invader you are going to spend time in a Thai jail. You are going to be presumed guilty of murder or attemted murder until you prove it wasn't.

Just getting caught with a gun is going to cause you immense problems, let alone using it.

Where to get your facts 'bob6023' in that "I know" ? You're all assumptions 'bob6023'. 'TAWP' is right, you won't get into trouble as you think. The police have no more liking for burglars than we do. If you read my previous post on this thread, you will see that a policeman gave me an illegal gun for self protection, after getting burgled. He even stated that 'if I shot anyone then 1500 Baht would sort things' ie having an illegal gun. A genuine man with a bribeable attitude. Please do not think that 'cause you're a farang, and you harm a Thai, that the police will side with the Thai. Wrong in my opinion. They're more likely to buy you a beer.

Partner if you really want to believe what you've written then good luck yo you.

[rixalex]

However I know that a falang, just having a gun, is a big no- no. If you did shoot a home invader you are going to spend time in a Thai jail. You are going to be presumed guilty of murder or attemted murder until you prove it wasn't.

Just getting caught with a gun is going to cause you immense problems, let alone using it.

Where to get your facts 'bob6023' in that "I know" ? You're all assumptions 'bob6023'. 'TAWP' is right, you won't get into trouble as you think. The police have no more liking for burglars than we do. If you read my previous post on this thread, you will see that a policeman gave me an illegal gun for self protection, after getting burgled. He even stated that 'if I shot anyone then 1500 Baht would sort things' ie having an illegal gun. A genuine man with a bribeable attitude. Please do not think that 'cause you're a farang, and you harm a Thai, that the police will side with the Thai. Wrong in my opinion. They're more likely to buy you a beer.

Partner if you really want to believe what you've written then good luck yo you.

He might be needing it!

Coventry, a retired police officer has offered some advice - do you think you know more than he does about the law?

Edited April 10, 2009 by rixalex

[GungaDin]

However I know that a falang, just having a gun, is a big no- no. If you did shoot a home invader you are going to spend time in a Thai jail. You are going to be presumed guilty of murder or attemted murder until you prove it wasn't.

Just getting caught with a gun is going to cause you immense problems, let alone using it.

Where to get your facts 'bob6023' in that "I know" ? You're all assumptions 'bob6023'. 'TAWP' is right, you won't get into trouble as you think. The police have no more liking for burglars than we do. If you read my previous post on this thread, you will see that a policeman gave me an illegal gun for self protection, after getting burgled. gHe even stated that 'if I shot anyone then 1500 Baht would sort things' ie having an illegal gun. A genuine man with a bribeable attitude. Please do not think that 'cause you're a faran, and you harm a Thai, that the police will side with the Thai. Wrong in my opinion. They're more likely to buy you a beer.

Really?

What if the Thai cop's boss says, hang on a minute, this guys a farang, let's hit him for 200KB or 500KB!

You would pay any amount to stay out of the piggery.

You'd trust a Thai copper whose main aim in life is to extort money from Thais and Foreigners alike?

Not on your Nelly , matey.

Think it through. Use your common sense!

Make a list of "What ifs".

gd

[coventry]

Coventry, a retired police officer has offered some advice - do you think you know more than he does about the law?

He was a policeman in the US, his advise doesn't count in Thailand. How can he say that 'you're going to be presumed guilty...........? Does he know Thai law ? I doubt it. Therefore I probably do know more about Thai law than he does.

As for 'Gungadin', why should I make a list of "what if" you're the one that mentioned it, you waste your time. Also you too are full of assuptions.

Edited April 10, 2009 by coventry

[GungaDin]

Coventry, a retired police officer has offered some advice - do you think you know more than he does about the law?

He was a policeman in the US, his advixe doesn't count in Thailand. How can he say that 'you're going to be presumed guilty...........? Does he know Thai law ? I doubt it. Therefore I probably do know more about Thai law than he does.

As for 'Gungadin', why should I make a list of "what if" you're the one that mentioned it, you waste your time. Also you too are full of assuxptions.

Ahh, you're catching on, finally.

What else is there to go on, a Thai cop's word?

Dream on baby..........

[rixalex]

Does he know Thai law ? I doubt it. Therefore I probably do know more about Thai law than he does.

You are accusing us of making assumptions right?

You seem quite adept yourself.

[bob6023]

A possibbly currupt Thai cop gives you an "illegal" gun and you don't think gee,duh "what if".... Oh well need I say ,more ? good luck partner.

[bob6023]

Remember people, it is murder until you can conclusively proof it's not, i.e it was self-defense. The burden of proof on self-defense is high. For example, if you shoot a person that is only robbing your house, it's murder, if he has a knive but he's across the room when you shoot him, it's murder, if he does not have a visible firearm, it's murder. It's pretty much only self-defense when the intruder is imminently going to kill you. That's to say he has a gun pointed at you or is charging across the room at you with a knive etc.

I'm not sure how the laws work here in thailand, but i highly doubt that they would be much different.

I think that you are wrong about this - at least in America - a thief has broken into your house when he knows that you are there and you have to give him first shot at killing a family member, before you can put him out of commission?

Sounds almost Communist!

California. If someone enters your home ( home invasion) and you shoot and kill that person you had better make sure his feet are inside the door and you'd better put a knife or a screw driver in his hands.

[Ulysses G.]

Can you imagine being sent to State Prison for killing some scumb*g who broke into your house when he knew you were in there? If you wait for him to produce a weapon before firing, you might as well just shoot yourself and your family.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[eldar1]

Imagine that, going to jail for shooting a (unarmed) burglar. What a strange world we live in! dam_n those good for nothing pesky laws, that put justice in the hands of those insufferable judges.

Edited April 11, 2009 by eldar1