Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[Naam]

and if it was known that the fees are excessive then what? UN Security Council sanctions?

Possibly or maybe the Thai monopolies commission or similar body, would say that it is illegal for all the banks to collude into making such a deal ....... not exactly creating a free open market im sure you'd agree.

Surely all bank charges in Thailand are governed by the same laws, if Thais were to get charged 150 baht (which as all i know they do) then surely this would be seens as excessive profit and the government could put limits on such cartel like profiteering.

But Thailand have been used to a one sided free trade agreement with western nations for so long that they dont know what free trade is.

no i don't agree and there is no law, neither in Thailand nor in any other country i know, that governs bank charges. as far as any excessive profits are concerned i doubt that they exist. besides me mentioning capital investment for ATMs and of course their contents i forgot to list and incredibly big global network of leased phone lines/satellite channels and the servers kept open 24/7 which enables us to access our bank accounts even from remote areas.

But Thailand have been used to a one sided free trade agreement with western nations for so long that they dont know what free trade is.

a point on which i wholeheartedly agree with you.

[Heng]

Big deal. Banks are busineses, not public services.

Many major British, European and American banks are most certainly not private stand alone businesses, you could be sure the same rules would apply to Thai banks in similar circumstances.

You know of major British, European, and American banks that are NOT profit oriented? Which ones?

I wasn't suggesting that all banks have the same business model, but in the end most if not all are in business. Serving the public does not have to = for the public good, some folks buy into PR ads too much.

[loong]

no i don't agree and there is no law, neither in Thailand nor in any other country i know, that governs bank charges. as far as any excessive profits are concerned i doubt that they exist. besides me mentioning capital investment for ATMs and of course their contents i forgot to list and incredibly big global network of leased phone lines/satellite channels and the servers kept open 24/7 which enables us to access our bank accounts even from remote areas.

As far as I know, bank charges are not governed by law, however it would be against the law for any companies in the UK that sell a similar product or service to collude on setting prices or fees.

Something like OPEC would be against the law in UK as I'm sure would be this Banking association fixing charges.

[loong]

Big deal. Banks are busineses, not public services.

Many major British, European and American banks are most certainly not private stand alone businesses, you could be sure the same rules would apply to Thai banks in similar circumstances.

You know of major British, European, and American banks that are NOT profit oriented? Which ones?

I wasn't suggesting that all banks have the same business model, but in the end most if not all are in business. Serving the public does not have to = for the public good, some folks buy into PR ads too much.

There are still some mutuals in the UK.

Nationwide is a well known one. A mutual is actually owned by its members, not shareholders. Because Nationwide is not driven totally by profit, members often get preferential rates. That is why the cheapest ATM withdrawals in Thailand are for Nationwide members.

[longball53098]

Thailand is trying everything in its power to disuade foreigners from coming here.

Mind you, thats quite a wack, 150 baht, more than most countries.

Ernest

Your joking right? Do you seriously think any tourist/foreigners is going to change their minds and not go to Thailand because of this? If you live here and depend on cash from overseas then simply do a wire transfer once a month or so.

Tompa,

It'd be good to know the actual cost of using the machine and the setting up the computer system that transfers the money, id be willing to bet it'd be nearer a few baht then to 150 baht, this 150bht does seem excessive, thing is most tourists using Atm's in Thailand wont know about this extra charge until they return home.

Actually I don't think that's true. When they make this change and start adding the new charge there will most likely be a message on the screen asking you to confirm if you agree to the charge before continuing the transaction. If you choose yes and complete the transaction then the receipt will show the fee or a screen message will show it if no receipt is issued.

[TonySoprano]

Why oh why does everyone have to fall out and make remarks about other board members?

while thinktoolittle gives off the impression of an exasperated 122 kg man trying to fit into a size m tshirt, i thought all of my posts were clearly light hearted and comedic. plus, he will save money in the future with his new found knowledge, assuming at some point he accepts that he is wrong.

[think_too_mut]

My originating banks don't, thinktoolittle.

OMG.

Regular man use toilet paper and pay bank fees.

But superman, like you, does neither.

If you had any clue how to navigate through daily life, you would ask yourself : who pays my bank fees?

Your bank (not Thai bank) sets the exchange rate. "No fees" rate is equal (or worse) to hotel reception desk exchange rate. Could be 10-15% worse than ATM rate.

Wrong again.

If the buying rate listed by kasikorn is for 35thb/usd, then my bank gives me 35.

You see how your bank statement lists the cost of the exchange and then their fee? My fee is $0.

Ok?

Before I send you to the scrapyard, for the benefit of other members, that exchange rate that you find the same is exactly where you pay your fee: your bank "giving" you the same rate as Kasikorn is actually Kasikorn's unfavorable rate that could be 10+ % worse. Your bank keeps the difference between Kasikorn's and their own rate.

The meaning of that "Zero fee" is to tell you: "Dear sucker, we, your bank, are happy with the ripoff rate that Kasikorn uses today, we are not charging you any further, that's more than enough. You are free to boast how you pay no fees, we like that utopia."

On the same day, American Express, Visa, Thomas Cook, all banks may (and mostly do) have different exchange rates.

In line with your posts here, the next claim you may make is: you don't pay departure tax when leaving Thailand and food and drinks on Thai Airways are free of charge.

Adio.

Edited April 8, 2009 by think_too_mut

[Heng]

Big deal. Banks are busineses, not public services.

Many major British, European and American banks are most certainly not private stand alone businesses, you could be sure the same rules would apply to Thai banks in similar circumstances.

You know of major British, European, and American banks that are NOT profit oriented? Which ones?

I wasn't suggesting that all banks have the same business model, but in the end most if not all are in business. Serving the public does not have to = for the public good, some folks buy into PR ads too much.

There are still some mutuals in the UK.

Nationwide is a well known one. A mutual is actually owned by its members, not shareholders. Because Nationwide is not driven totally by profit, members often get preferential rates. That is why the cheapest ATM withdrawals in Thailand are for Nationwide members.

Of course, I concede that there are banks that aren't 'totally driven by profit.' Plenty of credit unions (I assume that's what we call 'mutuals' in the US) are the same. Omsin, the Bank of Agriculture, and the Gov. Housing Bank here are the same. One of my Texas banks: Compass Bank also charges nothing for overseas withdrawals.

My point was that in the end, they still do need to profit and if were a choice between survival (read: meeting profit targets whether high or low) and happy camper customers... no bank would choose the latter.

[TonySoprano]

The meaning of that "Zero fee" is to tell you: "Dear sucker, we, your bank, are happy with the ripoff rate that Kasikorn uses today, we are not charging you any further, that's more than enough. You are free to boast how you pay no fees, we like that utopia."

Well, apparently, 99% of the ATM cards out there give you the "Rip Off Rate" and charge you fees.

On the same day, American Express, Visa, Thomas Cook, all banks may (and mostly do) have different exchange rates.

So you are you saying its possible for me to use one of these companies to get a 35.5 exchange rate when all the ATMs/Banks are giving a 35 rate? If that is the case then you correct sir. Please give more information on how to receive this 10% higher rate.

[TonySoprano]

Of course, I concede that there are banks that aren't 'totally driven by profit.' Plenty of credit unions (I assume that's what we call 'mutuals' in the US) are the same. Omsin, the Bank of Agriculture, and the Gov. Housing Bank here are the same. One of my Texas banks: Compass Bank also charges nothing for overseas withdrawals.

My point was that in the end, they still do need to profit and if were a choice between survival (read: meeting profit targets whether high or low) and happy camper customers... no bank would choose the latter.

Its all in Walden's Pond...

[TonySoprano]

Come on, Heng, is thinktoomut right about being able to get 35.5 (+10% on the ATM rate) with these credit card companies? I figure you would know. My interest (aka my wallet) is piqued.

Edited April 8, 2009 by TonySoprano

[Naam]

So you are you saying its possible for me to use one of these companies to get a 35.5 exchange rate when all the ATMs/Banks are giving a 35 rate? If that is the case then you correct sir. Please give more information on how to receive this 10% higher rate.

please revise your percentage calculation

[TonySoprano]

hahhahaha

i have been up for like 36 hours now.

Edited April 8, 2009 by TonySoprano

[TonySoprano]

ok, i am convinced that thinktoomutt is using some special education type twisted logic that because the banks get a better exchange rate (that is not available to ME, the consumer) I am somehow not actually using a "No Fee ATM card".

next he will tell me that the 10 baht bottle of water i bought actually cost me 15 baht because it only cost tesco lotus 5 baht to stock on their shelf.

he's probably eating mr donut crumbs off of himself getting a good laugh at me.

well done, thinktoomut

Edited April 8, 2009 by TonySoprano

[Heng]

Come on, Heng, is thinktoomut right about being able to get 35.5 (+10% on the ATM rate) with these credit card companies? I figure you would know. My interest (aka my wallet) is piqued.

I have no idea as I wasn't really listening, and I only have one credit card (Amex) which I pretty much never use anyway. Haven't really done too much research on the ways to maximize my savings on bank fees... I kinda rationalize that the banks (mostly SG banks) I use are already saving me plenty in taxes and $X in fees to them each month is acceptable.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Heng

[ronz28]

Perhaps the Thai banks are just allocating the cost of the ATM frauds to the Farangs with the new ATM fee because it has been Farangs that have been ripping off the Thai Bank ATM machines.

[thecatman]

So are there any major Thai Banks which are not members of Thai Bankers' Association?

That, I do not know, but here's a list of the banks that are members :

Bangkok Bank

Krung Thai Bank

Bank Of Ayudhya

Kasikorn Bank

Thai Military Bank

Siam Commercial Bank

Standard Chartered Bank

Siam City Bank

BankThai

UOB Bank

Thanachart Bank

Tisco Bank

Land And Houses Retail Bank

ACL Bank

Kaitnakin Bank

Thai Credit Retail Bank

So if a Use the Islamic Bank of Thailans ATM i will not get the 150THB extra fee ?! . . .

I'm guessing (from the information we have) that no, you wouldn't get charged using their ATM. Would you mind letting me know where some of their ATM's are located (in Bangkok) as I've never heard of them before.

[thecatman]

Following oMega69's mention of The Islamic Bank of Thailand i did a little reasearch into other banks that are not included in 'The Thai Bankers' Association'.

HSBC has a branch close to Lumphini Park on Rama 4 road and there are 3 ATM machines there and Citibank has a branch on North Sathorn road, Silom and there's also an ATM machine there too, So, as these banks are not member's of 'The Thai Bankers' Association', anyone living in the Silom area will be able to easily avoid the ATM charges simply by using these ATM machines instead.

If anyone can think of any other banks (I'm sure there's more) that are not included in the Thai Bankers Assoc and that have ATM machines, then please do list them.

Edited April 8, 2009 by thecatman

[phaethon]

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

[thecatman]

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

[Naam]

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

the maximum per withdrawal/transaction is set by the thai banks and the settings of their ATMs (which vary). the "home bank" might or might not set a maximum amount per day for ATM transactions.

[sanmiguel]

no i don't agree and there is no law, neither in Thailand nor in any other country i know, that governs bank charges. as far as any excessive profits are concerned i doubt that they exist.

In the UK for the last 3 years the Office of fair trading has taken the banks to court over the excessive cost of bank charges, for if you say go overdrawn by 1gbp you get a letter that costs 40gbp.

The OFT have won this case hands down as the law states they are only allowed to recoup their cost of going overdrawn which is literally pennies as opposed to the 40gbp they charge, and that it is seen as being an illegal fine for which they dont have the right to issue ...... the banks argued it was a service but this was not accepted.

It will cost the banks billions and its believed will see the end of free UK banking.

But my major point was this collusion of banks must be illegal as its against the open market, surely Thailands got laws to enhance free trade/ the open market even if they get ignored.

Thankyou to the people who have come up with ways around this fee.

Edited April 8, 2009 by sanmiguel

[loong]

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

The maximum withdrawal at most Thai ATMs is 20,000 and some 25,000. So limited by the denomination of the notes.

The other day I used an ATM that only had 500 Baht notes, so was limited to a maximum of 10,000 Baht.

Once I used a machine and it only had 100 Baht notes, so maximum withdrawal was 2,500.

Maybe the Banks will start loading the machines with 100 Baht notes where they know farang use them.

[terryp]

So if a Use the Islamic Bank of Thailans ATM i will not get the 150THB extra fee ?! . . .

I'm guessing (from the information we have) that no, you wouldn't get charged using their ATM. Would you mind letting me know where some of their ATM's are located (in Bangkok) as I've never heard of them before.

Big one on Asoke near Grammy (Green signs)

[thecatman]

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

the maximum per withdrawal/transaction is set by the thai banks and the settings of their ATMs (which vary). the "home bank" might or might not set a maximum amount per day for ATM transactions.

Ahh, Yes. I stand corrected.

I guess it's that my 'home bank' withdrawal limit is 300 pounds sterling per day, (around 15,000 Bt). So the Thai ATM limit doesn't come into play. I think the majority of 'home banks' have their standard card withdrawal limits set below the Thai ATM withdrawal fhreshold.

Anyway, my main point is, although I can see phaethon's concerns, I certainly don't think the Thai banks would lower the ATM limits this low, purely because the large majority of their customers/users are Thai's with Thai bank cards, not Farang with foreign bank cards.

Edited April 8, 2009 by thecatman

[oMega69]

So are there any major Thai Banks which are not members of Thai Bankers' Association?

That, I do not know, but here's a list of the banks that are members :

Bangkok Bank

Krung Thai Bank

Bank Of Ayudhya

Kasikorn Bank

Thai Military Bank

Siam Commercial Bank

Standard Chartered Bank

Siam City Bank

BankThai

UOB Bank

Thanachart Bank

Tisco Bank

Land And Houses Retail Bank

ACL Bank

Kaitnakin Bank

Thai Credit Retail Bank

So if a Use the Islamic Bank of Thailans ATM i will not get the 150THB extra fee ?! . . .

I'm guessing (from the information we have) that no, you wouldn't get charged using their ATM. Would you mind letting me know where some of their ATM's are located (in Bangkok) as I've never heard of them before.

This one i only have seen here in Pattaya . .2rd, i bit north from arabic street . . .

[thecatman]

Cheers terryp and oMega69, I will bear those 2 in mind.

[Penkoprod]

Following oMega69's mention of The Islamic Bank of Thailand i did a little reasearch into other banks that are not included in 'The Thai Bankers' Association'.

HSBC has a branch close to Lumphini Park on Rama 4 road and there are 3 ATM machines there and Citibank has a branch on North Sathorn road, Silom and there's also an ATM machine there too, So, as these banks are not member's of 'The Thai Bankers' Association', anyone living in the Silom area will be able to easily avoid the ATM charges simply by using these ATM machines instead.

If anyone can think of any other banks (I'm sure there's more) that are not included in the Thai Bankers Assoc and that have ATM machines, then please do list them.

Just because a bank isnt in the association doesn't mean they will not inpose the same charge though, does it?

Naive to think so IMO

Penkoprod

[thecatman]

Following oMega69's mention of The Islamic Bank of Thailand i did a little reasearch into other banks that are not included in 'The Thai Bankers' Association'.

HSBC has a branch close to Lumphini Park on Rama 4 road and there are 3 ATM machines there and Citibank has a branch on North Sathorn road, Silom and there's also an ATM machine there too, So, as these banks are not member's of 'The Thai Bankers' Association', anyone living in the Silom area will be able to easily avoid the ATM charges simply by using these ATM machines instead.

If anyone can think of any other banks (I'm sure there's more) that are not included in the Thai Bankers Assoc and that have ATM machines, then please do list them.

Just because a bank isnt in the association doesn't mean they will not inpose the same charge though, does it?

Naive to think so IMO

Penkoprod

They may well do, the point is, at this moment in time we know for a fact (from the link provided early in this thread) that all the Thai banks included in The Thai bankers Assoc will start charging as from April 17th.

As yet, there is no announcement that anyone is aware of, of HSBC or the Islamic bank doing this.

If you have info of HSBC and the Islamic Bank of Thailand following suit, then please do post it.

Say, in 6 months time, the other 2 banks mentioned above do follow suit, well surely even an extra 6 months of free withdrawals is better than a kick in the nads, (if it's convenient for you to use there few ATMs of course).

Bottom line is, people are posting information on this thread to try and help one another out and at the same time save each other a few quid if we can. It's not a huge amount, and probably not enough to make anyone rethink coming here or whether they can stay here, but I'm of the opinion that my money is of more use to me in my pocket, rather than the banks.

Your post states what we already know is a possibility and therefore adds no value to this thread.

Edited April 8, 2009 by thecatman

[TonySoprano]

yeah sure. still waiting to see if anyone has any idea &lt;deleted&gt; thinktoomut is talking about or if he is infact just a special little boy.