Prime Minister Urges Political Parties To Propose Charter Amendments

[sriracha john]

PM urges political parties to propose charter amendments

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Sunday called on every political party to propose charter changes they want made, within two weeks.

During his weekly Sunday television talk Abhisit invited all political parties to determine which articles of the charter should be amended, with proposals to be submitted within a fortnight.

The proposed amendment will then be presented to society for approval, before being included in the charter, he said.

Some politicians are dissatisfied with an article in the current charter which provides for the dissolution of a party if its leader or executive member engages in electoral fraud. Four parties have been dissolved under the terms of this article.

He said political blunders must be separated from criminal charges," he said, apparently referring to former PM Thaksin Shinawatra who is convicted of corruption and abuse of power and is sentenced to 2 years in prison.

He added the ongoing shutdown of community radio stations will continue against those having instigated unrest and have called on the public to commit unlawful acts.

- The Nation / 2009-04-19

[sriracha john]

PM urges Thailand's parties to submit constitutional proposals

BANGKOK, April 19 (TNA) - After the recent violence and political disorder amid charges that the turmoil was due in part to the current Constitution, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Sunday called on every political party to propose charter changes they want made, within two weeks.

During his weekly Sunday morning television address Mr. Abhisit invited all political parties to determine which articles of the charter should be amended, with proposals to be submitted within fortnight.

The proposed amendment will then be presented to society for approval, before being included in the charter, he said.

Thailand is now using a Constitution approved in August 2007 drafted by legal and constitutional experts appointed by the senior military officers who conducted the September 2006 coup d’etat which ended the government of then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. The coupmakers scrapped the 1997 charter.

Some politicians are dissatisfied with an article in the current charter which provides for the dissolution of a party if its leader or executive member engages in electoral fraud. Four parties have been dissolved under the terms of this article.

Insisting that “political blunders must be separated from criminal charges,” Mr. Abhisit said the ongoing shutdown of community radio stations will continue against those having instigated unrest and have called on the public to commit unlawful acts.

He said that since coming to power last December he has worked to benefit the public as a whole and reasserted that he is “willing to quit the post” if it could solve the country’s problems.

But repeated calls by politicians to dissolve the House cannot solve the problems, he said.

“Social divisions remain high,” Mr. Abhisit said, but the “risks will be higher if a general election is held prematurely. It will lead to a violent election which would worsen development and the image of democratic society in Thailand.”

[sriracha john]

Abhisit said that the government would "brainstorm" possible changes to the law or to a constitution adopted in 2007 under the junta that ousted Thaksin -- key demands of Thaksin's supporters.

"The government is ready to respond but we will do it through a peaceful legal process and on reasonable grounds," he said.

- AFP / 2009-04-19

[BSJ]

Some politicians are dissatisfied with an article in the current charter which provides for the dissolution of a party if its leader or executive member engages in electoral fraud. Four parties have been dissolved under the terms of this article.

Thats going to be a stumbling block. If criminal acts are committed by the few, should we punish the many? I say if the leader and executive are committing crimes without the knowledge of the many it can taint the many unfairly by association. But, in fairness we shouldn't punish those who are innocent.... should we?

Ultimately, if the political party can still hold the balance of power after the criminals are stood down they should be allowed to continue to govern for the remainder of the term.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Maybe they could remove the bit where a government can be overthrown because the PM still does a weekly cooking show?

[sriracha john]

Maybe they could remove the bit where a government can be overthrown because the PM still does a weekly cooking show?

So long as they keep the bit about PM's not moonlighting, accepting money for work outside their PM duties, and lying to investigators (perjury).

[Ricardo]

Maybe they could remove the bit where a government can be overthrown because the PM still does a weekly cooking show?

How about the bit where a PM is removed, because the former-PM's party no-longer support him, after losing a court case, and nominate someone else for PM instead ?

[sriracha john]

PM seeks a just solution

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has given political parties two weeks to propose amendments to the constitution which will help defuse tensions.

Mr Abhisit yesterday said the effort to get people talking could address the political conflicts which drove people on to the streets and into committing violence.

"To those who are still protesting and demanding democracy, I assure you that the government is ready to respond by inviting parties to brainstorm," Mr Abhisit said on his weekly television chat.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/1530...a-just-solution

[webfact]

POLITICAL CHAOS

House-Senate session to discussion political turmoil

By The Nation

Published on April 20, 2009

The coalition and opposition whips will meet tomorrow to finalise preparations for convening a House-Senate session to discuss the current turmoil.

The general debate will explore measures to overcome the political strife, chief coalition whip Chinnaworn Boonyakiart said.

He dismissed speculation that the general debate, if it happens, will bring up the issue of parliamentary immunity for Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Phrompan who has refused to report to the police to face charges relating to his involvement as co-leader of the red shirts.

He urged Jatuporn to surrender instead of trying to exploit his House seat as a shield.

He also reminded him that it would be inappropriate to speak on the House floor as a red-shirt co-leader.

Regarding the reform process, he said the government would involve all sides in rewriting the charter.

The role of King Prajadhipok's Institute would be confined to compiling pertinent issues for reform and the rewrite would be done by the House-mandated assembly, he said.

The Senate will today meet to draw up issues for general debate. Its meeting is timed one day ahead of the House whips' meeting.

Deputy Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanit said he expected one of the issues would be the recommendation for the early lifting of emergency rule.

The recommendation is designed to pre-empt any underground activities fostered by the opposition movement, he said.

Government spokesman Panithan Wattanayakorn said that the prime minister had met the military chiefs and security officials to thank them for restoring normalcy following the riots.

Panithan said top security officials had updated their report to the prime minister assessing the current situation, including the gun attack on People's Alliance for Democracy leader Sondhi Limthongkul.

He said emergency rule would be lifted as soon as the situation is normalised. Presently security officials remain concerned about continuing movements of key players in the disturbances, he added.

"Attempts are still being made to incite people to join street protests, such as the rally at Sanam Luang," he said.

He said authorities had been closely monitoring attempts to build up the underground movement. Although the overall situation was improving steadily, a number of security issues remain of concern, he said.

Pheu Thai Yasothon MP Peerapan Palusuk said the party agreed with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's proposal to amend the Constitution and would propose its Constitution amendment draft, which had been prepared since the Samak Sundaravej government.

He said the process to amend the Constitution should not take longer than two months because the current Constitution has long been subjected to scrutiny. After the Constitution is amended, the party would propose that Abhisit dissolve the House. He said the party believed political divisions would die down after two general elections.

Peerapon added that the party considered cases after the September 19 coup should be classified as political and people involved should be granted clemency.

Tourism Minister Chumpol Silpa-archa said it would be difficult to grant amnesty to all politicians who have been deprived of political rights following the dissolution of Thai Rak Thai Party and People Power Party because the move would create public opposition.

However, he believed giving amnesty on an individual basis could be done through a constitutional amendment by allowing the Election Commission and the Supreme Court to decide whether each politician was involved in the election frauds that led to the party dissolution.

- THE NATION -

[hammered]

This is a commendable and sane idea and it is good to see thsat at least some fom every side are welcoming it. The difficulties will be in the detail but that is not insurmountable and in thiose who just dont want to see it happen which could be more problematic.

[LawnGnome]

This is a commendable and sane idea and it is good to see thsat at least some fom every side are welcoming it. The difficulties will be in the detail but that is not insurmountable and in thiose who just dont want to see it happen which could be more problematic.

And, people will remember that the PM proposed it, and it will serve to make is reputation stronger. Anyone who thinks Abhisit is stupid, should think again. This guy is a brilliant politician. (Spare the the "Puea Thai proposed this before" argument...they proposed blanket amnesties for all acts, including criminal, in a weak attempt to whitewash their boss's criminal record)

[sriracha john]

This is a commendable and sane idea and it is good to see thsat at least some fom every side are welcoming it. The difficulties will be in the detail but that is not insurmountable and in thiose who just dont want to see it happen which could be more problematic.

And, people will remember that the PM proposed it, and it will serve to make is reputation stronger. Anyone who thinks Abhisit is stupid, should think again. This guy is a brilliant politician. (Spare the the "Puea Thai proposed this before" argument...they proposed blanket amnesties for all acts, including criminal, in a weak attempt to whitewash their boss's criminal record)

...which may turn into a stumbling block for any reasonable changes if, as the article indicates, the PTP are just dusting off their Samak-era amendment demands and intend to throw them up again now.

eg. revoking the current constitution by requiring MP's to tow the Party line on any House votes and not being able to vote independently is one on their list. The last censure debate reflected the new change and its obvious positive aspects.

What is and what is not judged "reasonable" change will be paramount.

Edited April 20, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Not many banned politicians have criminal charges against them. Not many are dying to return to active politics - they've got their proxies in place already.

Take TRT dissolution case, for example - only a couple of executives were directly involved in fraud but guys like Chaturon were covering it up. Who is going to be proclaimed innocent? Are they going to try the case again, with parliament acting as a jury?

Then there are three other dissolved parties, are they all going to be tried separately or altogether?

That won't go down very well with general public and in the end will fill the politics with dirtiest types around again, after flushing them out.

I mean, the friends of Newin being asked to vote on their boss - what kind of jury is that?

>>>

Perhaps Abhisit is simply giving the coalition partners a channel to vent their anger and feel important, even if the idea is dead on arrival.

While some of them are looking at September to get amendments in place and dissolve the House, I just don't see how they are going to get public consent to any of this so fast.

>>

Or, perhaps, they are trying to capitalise on Suthep's weakness after Pattay fiasco.

Edited April 20, 2009 by Plus

[hammered]

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Not many banned politicians have criminal charges against them. Not many are dying to return to active politics - they've got their proxies in place already.

Take TRT dissolution case, for example - only a couple of executives were directly involved in fraud but guys like Chaturon were covering it up. Who is going to be proclaimed innocent? Are they going to try the case again, with parliament acting as a jury?

Then there are three other dissolved parties, are they all going to be tried separately or altogether?

That won't go down very well with general public and in the end will fill the politics with dirtiest types around again, after flushing them out.

I mean, the friends of Newin being asked to vote on their boss - what kind of jury is that?

>>>

Perhaps Abhisit is simply giving the coalition partners a channel to vent their anger and feel important, even if the idea is dead on arrival.

While some of them are looking at September to get amendments in place and dissolve the House, I just don't see how they are going to get public consent to any of this so fast.

>>

Or, perhaps, they are trying to capitalise on Suthep's weakness after Pattay fiasco.

BJT have just come out against an amnesty:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...opposes-amnesty

Somewhere I read that one proposal is to let the EC/Supreme court look at each individual case to rule on criminal or politcal liability

My guess is that it is about real politik

[xminator]

A good start would be to burrow the 2007 constitution, put the 1997 constitution on the table and modify that one instead.

[Plus]

A good start would be to burrow the 2007 constitution, put the 1997 constitution on the table and modify that one instead.

If only you could point out how they are different...

It's a red herring, or rather herrings - amnesty, amendments, reconciliation.

Politicians were punished for abuses of power, they want it back. That's all there's to it. People vs politicians.

If they want reconciliation in that battle - it won't come from amnesty, in fact it would ignite the hostilities again.

[h90]

A good start would be to burrow the 2007 constitution, put the 1997 constitution on the table and modify that one instead.

The 1997 is also very bad, but has different problems than the 2007?

Maybe the best would be to copy a well working constitution from a different country. No need to develop it again and again new.

[sriracha john]

...which may turn into a stumbling block for any reasonable changes if, as the article indicates, the PTP are just dusting off their Samak-era amendment demands and intend to throw them up again now.

eg. revoking the current constitution by requiring MP's to tow the Party line on any House votes and not being able to vote independently is one on their list. The last censure debate reflected the new change and its obvious positive aspects.

What is and what is not judged "reasonable" change will be paramount.

hmm... and now we have PTP's interpretation of "reasonable"... it's back to Samak's days...

even their own folk look completely bored by it's repetition...

[sriracha john]

Opposition Chief Whip Wittaya Buranasiri

Pheu Thai Party Urges Government to Pass Reconciliation Bill

The Pheu Thai Party is urging the government to pass a national reconciliation bill that would provide amnesty to 111 former Thai Rak Thai politicians who were banned from politics.

The Party has called for a meeting to discuss the issue further tomorrow.

After the Pime Minister indicated a willingness to amend the charter as part of an attempt for reconciliation, Opposition Chief Whip Wittaya Buranasiri said the Pheu Thai Party wants a constitutional amendment ensuring people's rights and measures ensuring the participation of the public in politics, as well as measures to prevent independent organizations from interfering with the government.

Wittaya also addressed a proposed amnesty for party executives banned from politics after the 2006 coup. He said an amnesty for executives from Thai Rak Thai and other disbanded parties would be a major step toward reconciliation and move the country forward again.

The Pheu Thai Party will hold a meeting tomorrow to discuss the reconciliation issues, including ways to bridge the ideological divide between the red and yellow shirts, problems that occur in implementing the laws, and creating unity in the nation.

- TOC / 2009-04-20

[hammered]

A good start would be to burrow the 2007 constitution, put the 1997 constitution on the table and modify that one instead.

Ultimately its up the Thai people but ther are few extra rights and protections enshrined for the people in 2007 over 1997 which are not particulalry contentious and hopefully they would be kept.

[Plus]

Opposition Chief Whip Wittaya Buranasiri

I think I saw his name in connection with inciting riots and overthrow of the government, in some comments somewhere. Has he been formally charged?

[coconutmonkey]

Maybe they could remove the bit where a government can be overthrown because the PM still does a weekly cooking show?

How about the bit where a PM is removed, because the former-PM's party no-longer support him, after losing a court case, and nominate someone else for PM instead ?

How about they remove that bit about protests (sorry, riots of 'shirts') requesting one PM step down because he wasn't democratically elected, meanwhile suggesting another take his place undemocratically?

Or removing PM's because military or police don't follow orders?

[Moonrakers]

Good move by Mark, although in reality he is only doing what he should be doing, nothing special like. It's just that he stands out from the rest simply by doing his job.

[Pierrot]

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Simple, they just start to realize that everything was perfectly fine in 2006 before they start messing up with the government and the constitution ... No surprise they're also talking about amending the current constitution ...

[Plus]

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Simple, they just start to realize that everything was perfectly fine in 2006 before they start messing up with the government and the constitution ... No surprise they're also talking about amending the current constitution ...

It didn't look anywhere near fine in 2006.

No parliament, no senate, annuled elections, Election Commissioners jailed, interim government that overstayed it's allowed mandate by about three months, Thaksin backpedalling on his public promise to stand down, and people taking to the streets again.

Another point I made elsewhere already - reconciliation needs at least two parties, so far all we hear is red demands without any acknowledgement of any wrongdoing.

That will be some reconciliation if it goes through.

>>>

Maybe Abhisit is giving them the rope - two weeks to start making sense, and if they don't their proposals will be shredded to pieces. Reinstall 1997 const - that is legally impossible. Amnesty for selected group of people is also legally questionable, let alone the process for selecting who is to be included. It's all just nonsense.

Why don't they ask the people if they want to mess with consitution at all, and what they percieve as wrong with it, if they give a fuc_k.

[Pierrot]

I don't know where Abhisit is going with this amnesty idea.

Simple, they just start to realize that everything was perfectly fine in 2006 before they start messing up with the government and the constitution ... No surprise they're also talking about amending the current constitution ...

It didn't look anywhere near fine in 2006.

No parliament, no senate, annuled elections, Election Commissioners jailed, interim government that overstayed it's allowed mandate by about three months, Thaksin backpedalling on his public promise to stand down, and people taking to the streets again.

How good does it look now ?

Thaksin was in charge and it was fine, then economy went south ....

You're right, people dong give a fuc_k about the constitution, the government ... they just think Thaksin is businessman, Thaksin understand business, when Thaksin was in charge things were fine ...

Government propaganda want us to believe that Thaksin is history. The only thing that separates Abhi from a real democratic mandate is a success in a national election. Don't you think he craves it ? Why won't he do it ?

[Plus]

Just because a billion chinese eat with chopsticks doesn't make it right.

Back in 2006 Thaksin was the only issue that forced hundreds of thousands of people on the streets to demand justice, that was the reality, not the belief that everything was alright.

One way to look at the current mess is that a lot of people think that the reality is only what they choose to believe in. Like, for example, if you don't want to remember the mess Thaksin created in 2006, it didn't happen. If you want to believe that red protests have nothing to do with Thaksin but only with people's desire for freedom and rights and democracy, then it is so.

The reality, however, can't be ignored, it tends to come back at you no matter what you believe in. Back in 2000 people believed that Thaksin was rich enough and was sacrificing his business career to serve the country, they believed that he cut corners here and there only to help country's progress. See how that turned out.

Now they want to believe that amnesty for crooked politicians will bring reconciliation, against all reason.

Fat chance, I say.

[samgrowth]

A good start would be to burrow the 2007 constitution, put the 1997 constitution on the table and modify that one instead.

That is not possible.

By doing that, the 2006 coup leader will go to jail.

Because the first item in 2006 constitution say something like "All involved in coup walk free FOREVER, nothing can be bought against them then and ever after".

[LawnGnome]

The 2007 Constitution was approved by the whole country, via a national referendum (can we even say that about the 1997 version?). No way you could tear it up legally. Only choice is to amend the parts that people don't like. Personally, I think both version make it far to easy to amend the constitution. I think that any change should also be approved by a national referendum, after passing through the parliament. But they forgot to ask me when they were writing it...lol

[samgrowth]

The 2007 Constitution was approved by the whole country, via a national referendum (can we even say that about the 1997 version?). No way you could tear it up legally. Only choice is to amend the parts that people don't like. Personally, I think both version make it far to easy to amend the constitution. I think that any change should also be approved by a national referendum, after passing through the parliament. But they forgot to ask me when they were writing it...lol

You mean 65 million vote yes? I don't think so. I think only about 13 million (from my memory) vote yes, 10 million vote no.

Also, the question on the referendum is bias.

It ask the people to vote

(A..) Yes, the newly proposed 2007 constitution or

(B..) No constitution at all (because the old one has already been thorn; also imply that military continue to rule, as no fresh election can be held without constitution).

In fact, it should ask the people if they would rather want:

(A..) reinstead the existing 1997 constitution or

(B..) the newly proposed 2007 constitution.

which I am sure most people will choice (A..) (just my judgement).

Edited April 20, 2009 by samgrowth