Sunken Containers and Skeletal Remains Discovered Offshore

[JetsetBkk]

another link here with a few more words and the island.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread461290/pg1

Insightful post there by muddyhoop:

I'm an expat living in Thailand but I think the top mafia are the military, followed by the police mafia and then the mafia...mafia !

[NanLaew]

This gem from the article in the Nation 14th May 2009.

Pol Col Weerasak Meenakanit, now assigned to work at DSI, said he heard of the mysterious containers in late 2007.

"Last year, a team of divers checked on the sites but found nothing abnormal. Although some human skulls and skeletons were found nearby, it's not something unusual given that some fishermen might have drowned there," Weerasak said.

Another mental giant joins CDSI Thailand!

Edited May 13, 2009 by NanLaew

[sriracha john]

PM orders experts to inspect seabed

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has ordered forensic experts to inspect the seabed off Samaesan in Chonburi's Sattahip district where reports have emerged of cargo containers stuffed with human skeletons being discovered.

The prime minister did not say yesterday when the experts would go to the area. All he wanted, he said, was information on the discovery. Mr Abhisit said initial theories about the discovery were that it might involve human trafficking gangs and that authorities were investigating.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban yesterday said he would ask Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, to examine the reports. He has also contacted the Navy to provide assistance to Khunying Porntip's team.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-14

[MJP]

I still say, whether these containers were dropped off a container ship, fishing boat, pontoon, barge or warship there would have been so many people involved in filling the containers, loading them on a vessel and dumping them at sea you just could not keep the story secret.

Just wonder if it was the Khmer Rouge when the killing fields got full?

Did anyone watch this program? I saw part of it - I did not see any skeletal remains, they did dive down to a container. I did not watch all of it though so maybe missed something?

I remain a skeptic. There have no doubt been some very bad things done here I'm sure - I just know that containers falling off ships is not really rare and fisherman would find more fish around them since the fish like the structure. A container can sink like a rock or float awhile depends on the contents - right?

You guys need to brush up on your recent Thai history. 1976 entire special military units and "others" murdered, raped and mutilated the bodies of an unknown amount of young university students that were protesting peacefully. People think several hundred. Basically covered up as no one has been held accountable and yet many witnesses and people involved. 1992 military opens up machine gun fire on groups of thousands of peaceful protestors, no bodies? 2003 three thousand murdered in the drug war.... are all bodies accounted for? Doubtful. What you guys need to understand is this is a repetitive theme and its easier to try and cover things up and forget about it when there is no evidence and no bodies.

So glad I moved here!

[Smithson]

Mr Abhisit said initial theories about the discovery were that it might involve human trafficking gangs and that authorities were investigating.

He failed to mention the dead fisherman theory.

[PhilHarries]

I said to the crew that the storm we were experiancing must be very bad because the containers were falling into the sea. They explained that it was normal practise, if the weather was bad, just to throw the containers overboard to reduce the centre of gravity of the ship.

So it is very easy for these containers to be thrown overboard from conventional container ships.

Chris

BULL-SHIT !!!!!

"Just to throw the containers overboard"

tssssssssssss

Can't comment on containers but with general deck cargo if the captain thinks that the cargo poses a threat to the safety of his ship at any time he will order it cut loose, mostly during a storm as he wouldn't leave harbour if he thought it unsafe generally. If they have the ability, i.e. ships cranes, they cane dump it overside otherwise they'll just cut the lashings and let the sea finish the job. We had a large section of power station ducting dumped im the Med back in about 1996 in a storm as the captain feared for his ship.

Unfortunatelt, like with just about all news stories in Thailand, this one will just fade away and we'll never know the truth. There will be claim, counter claim, smoke, mirrors, lies, half truths and suspicions but in the end there will be no definitive answers.

[pagallim]

Not sure if anyone has seen this story reproduced internationally, but here's a link to the UK's Daily Telegraph of today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...f-Thailand.html

[Ricardo]

Perhaps this story, now that it's being confirmed as more than just a local rumour, might be moved by the mods to the News forum ?

Good to see Khunying Pornthip on-the-case ... she tends to inspire more confidence than the BiBs.

[sriracha john]

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban yesterday said he would ask Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, Director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, to examine the reports. He has also contacted the Navy to provide assistance to Khunying Porntip's team.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...f-Thailand.html

sounds as if she's been assigned to the case:

quote of link:

Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand, the director of the National Forensic Science Institute, told The Daily Telegraph that she had been ordered to investigate but required official clearance before beginning her work.

[sriracha john]

Khunying Pornthip led a DSI team yesterday to investigate the site.

The Navy will send 3 boats to the area today to assist.

The FSI Director today reviewed a skull being kept at a local charity organization, stating that investigation would be difficult as the skeletons had been affected due to submersion in the sea. She noted that the skull did not have many of the identifying traits needed by forensic scientists such as hairs or tissue.

[Jimjim]

Any video on the internet we can see of the dives?

[basjke]

Khunying Pornthip led a DSI team yesterday to investigate the site.

The Navy will send 3 boats to the area today to assist.

The FSI Director today reviewed a skull being kept at a local charity organization, stating that investigation would be difficult as the skeletons had been affected due to submersion in the sea. She noted that the skull did not have many of the identifying traits needed by forensic scientists such as hairs or tissue.

She probably forgot to mention that it wasn't carrying a name card or personal phone number either which would have made the identification possible.

[sriracha john]

Forensic Expert Examines Sunken Container off Chonburi Shore

Renowned forensic expert Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunan will examine the human remains found in a shipping container sunk in the Gulf of Thailand.

Relatives of those who went missing during the Black May incident urged Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to investigate after eight containers were found near Sattahip Bay, since they believe that the containers might hold the remains of their loved ones.

Central Institute for Forensic Science Director Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunan has travelled to Sattahip district in Chonburi province since yesterday for an investigation.

Dr. Pornthip revealed that Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban said the prime minister is interested in the issue, and has urged related organisations to speed up the process.

Various sectors are cooperating, including the Navy, which contributed supplies including cranes and ships, and the Science Ministry.

Dr. Pornthip and her team then visited the Sawangrochanatham Foundation to perform initial investigations on a human skull, caught in the net of fishing trawlers a while back and believed to have floated up from those sunken containers. It is estimated that it might be around 30 to 40 years old. The gender, however, still remains unknown.

Today, the team will visit various areas in the sea that might have more human remains. The containers will only be opened on land, but if the weather causes any inconvenience tomorrow, further investigations will be postponed.

-- Tan Network 2009-05-15

[medegen]

No containers in Sattahip sea

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 15/05/2009 at 02:31 PM

Head of Silpakorn University's Underwater Archaeogy Division said Friday he can confirm that there are no shipping containers containing human skeletons in the seabed in Chon Buri province.

Imprem Watcharangura, head of the division, said the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) has contacted his division to search the seabed off Sattahip to look for the containers after it has received reports about it from divers. But his team found no containers there.

Mr Imprem also said that fishermen have told the team that they must know if dead bodies were hidden there because fish would have flocked to the area.

He also said that there are people filing complaints about this in the past 20 years, but no evidence was found after diving teams had searched the seabed.

On Friday morning, a diving team of the navy began searching a location there to look for the containers.

Scuba divers claim to have come across a large number of skulls on the seabed during a coral reef adventure dive. They reported the find to the media.

DSI said it would have another look at the site.

Edited May 15, 2009 by medegen

[Dario]

Khunying Pornthip led a DSI team yesterday to investigate the site.

The Navy will send 3 boats to the area today to assist.

The FSI Director today reviewed a skull being kept at a local charity organization, stating that investigation would be difficult as the skeletons had been affected due to submersion in the sea. She noted that the skull did not have many of the identifying traits needed by forensic scientists such as hairs or tissue.

At 14:31 the Bangkok Post reports, I quote:

"Breakingnews » Breakingnews

No containers of bones on seabed

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 15/05/2009 at 02:31 PM A search by divers has failed to find any sign of shipping containers reputed to contain human skeletons on the seabed in Chon Buri province, the head of Silpakorn University's Division of Underwater Archaeology said on Friday

Imprem Watcharangura said the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) asked his division to organise a search of the ocean floor off Sattahip for the containers reported to have been seen by other divers.

He could confirm there were no containers there, Mr Imprem said.

Mr Imprem said fishermen have told the team that they would surely know if there were dead bodies hidden there, because fish would have flocked to the area to feed and the news would have spread.

He said people had been filing complaints based on the rumoured containers for the past 20 years. Diving teams had searched the area and found no evidnce of the containers.

On Friday morning, a team of navy divers began searching a location there for the containers.

Scuba divers claim to have come across a large number of skulls on the seabed during a coral reef adventure dive. They reported the find to the media.

The DSI said it would have another look at the site."

-- Bangkok Post 2009 05 15

[LennyW]

So where did the containers go that we saw on the channel 3 news report a few days ago??

[Humphrey Bear]

Khunying Pornthip led a DSI team yesterday to investigate the site.

The Navy will send 3 boats to the area today to assist.

The FSI Director today reviewed a skull being kept at a local charity organization, stating that investigation would be difficult as the skeletons had been affected due to submersion in the sea. She noted that the skull did not have many of the identifying traits needed by forensic scientists such as hairs or tissue.

At 14:31 the Bangkok Post reports, I quote:

"Breakingnews » Breakingnews

No containers of bones on seabed

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 15/05/2009 at 02:31 PM A search by divers has failed to find any sign of shipping containers reputed to contain human skeletons on the seabed in Chon Buri province, the head of Silpakorn University's Division of Underwater Archaeology said on Friday

Imprem Watcharangura said the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) asked his division to organise a search of the ocean floor off Sattahip for the containers reported to have been seen by other divers.

He could confirm there were no containers there, Mr Imprem said.

Mr Imprem said fishermen have told the team that they would surely know if there were dead bodies hidden there, because fish would have flocked to the area to feed and the news would have spread.

He said people had been filing complaints based on the rumoured containers for the past 20 years. Diving teams had searched the area and found no evidnce of the containers.

On Friday morning, a team of navy divers began searching a location there for the containers.

Scuba divers claim to have come across a large number of skulls on the seabed during a coral reef adventure dive. They reported the find to the media.

The DSI said it would have another look at the site."

-- Bangkok Post 2009 05 15

Unfortunately he got his Eastings and Northings confused and was looking in the sea off Newfoundland.

But he did pinpoint the three locations and looked around for at least 100m perimeter search area.

How much has this cretin been paid to pour cold water on the whole story

[plasticpig]

Surprised it’s not on the world news.

True or Not

[loonodingle]

Do You really think it took so long to get someone from Bangkok to Pattaya to deal with this?????????

ahhahahaaahahahah they could have pulled those containers over night

AND WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IT .................

[sriracha john]

Container, but no bones, discovered

CHONBURI : Authorities have confirmed the discovery of a 3m x 6m cargo container under the sea off Juang island in tambon Samaesarn, Sattahip district, after their first joint underwater survey yesterday.

The joint survey by the Navy and the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) followed recent media reports on local fishermen's claims that three to five containers stuffed with human skeletons had been found under the sea off Samaesarn.

"We did find a cargo container but we could neither open nor salvage it because a large part of the container is buried deep in the muddy seabed," said Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, the Director of the CIFS, who led the joint survey team. Dr Porntip said divers from the Navy had taken photos of the container and collected evidence in the area including samples of coral, barnacles, and seawater for testing to find out how long the container has been under the sea.

She said the divers did not find any human skulls or bones near the container. Nor did they find any clue that would point to its manufacturer. "Had we found some clues, they could have made our investigation into this case easier," she said.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-16

[sriracha john]

an interesting tidbit yesterday regarding the specific shipping lane the containers were found in with yet another possible explanation:

That area used to be the water transportation channel of cargo ships, besides the American troops had used that area for transportation when it was based in Sattahip as well.

- National News Bureau of Thailand / 2009-05-15

[Humphrey Bear]

Container, but no bones, discovered

CHONBURI : Authorities have confirmed the discovery of a 3m x 6m cargo container under the sea off Juang island in tambon Samaesarn, Sattahip district, after their first joint underwater survey yesterday.

The joint survey by the Navy and the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) followed recent media reports on local fishermen's claims that three to five containers stuffed with human skeletons had been found under the sea off Samaesarn.

"We did find a cargo container but we could neither open nor salvage it because a large part of the container is buried deep in the muddy seabed," said Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan, the Director of the CIFS, who led the joint survey team. Dr Porntip said divers from the Navy had taken photos of the container and collected evidence in the area including samples of coral, barnacles, and seawater for testing to find out how long the container has been under the sea.

She said the divers did not find any human skulls or bones near the container. Nor did they find any clue that would point to its manufacturer. "Had we found some clues, they could have made our investigation into this case easier," she said.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-16

OK, it's been in the sea a long time. But when totally submerged there is little rust after an initial attack.

Painted numbers, owning cargo transporter's name, other details will last for many years.

There's none so blind .....

[sriracha john]

OK, it's been in the sea a long time. But when totally submerged there is little rust after an initial attack.

Painted numbers, owning cargo transporter's name, other details will last for many years.

There's none so blind .....

The underwater footage that was shown on Channel 3 revealed containers that were heavily and thickly covered in barnacles and other sea life that due to the extensive growth completely obscured any identifying numbers or names on the container itself.

One gets the impression that they had been down there for a looong time.

Edited May 16, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

An example of above is Matichon newspaper's still photo:

or The Nation:

Edited May 16, 2009 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

And a Mystery unfolds...

Skulls - so far only ONE!

Bones - not yet..

"Containers full of bones" - no evidence yet - might be pure coincidence....

well, well, well so far the only one skull is dated 30-40 years old...

as long as there is NO forensic evidence linking it to someone who is missing..

it might be anything - as long as there is no further evidence showing up in these containers....

[JetsetBkk]

[Beardog]

So where did the containers go that we saw on the channel 3 news report a few days ago??

Probably with the same guy that gave info to the police about the large denominations of baht sealed in blue 4' pvc pipes buried a couple of years ago.

He was supposed to receive a kickback from the police....shortly after him & the story disappeared.

Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM

[KhaoNiaw]

So where did the containers go that we saw on the channel 3 news report a few days ago??

Channel 3 only showed one container. Local fisherman say that there are 3 sites where containers are located. The Channel 3 team dived at the site nearest to the shore (about 7 nautical miles) - this is not the site where fishermen say they have pulled up skulls. The other sites were about 40 and 70 nautical miles offshore if I remember rightly.

The local headmen says that over the years he has personally pulled up a number of skulls and estimates that the total passed on to him and reported to him over the years is around a hundred. He claims that some of the skulls have been given to the local temple for religious rites, while others were handed to local police who sent them on to Bangkok. There is not necessarily any link between containers and skulls.

It seems like some people are not very enthusiastic about the search. It could just be because they don't want to be spending their budget on a wild goose chase - they'll probably get told to pay for the operation out of their own budgets first, which they'll be very reluctant to do. Remember we're talking government and military departments here.

[sriracha john]

Porntip seeks quick move on container

Forensics director offers two alternatives to check contents

Central Institute of Forensic Science Director Porntip Rojanasunan yesterday urged a quick decision from the government to ensure that the truth about a mysterious shipping container on the Chonburi seabed, rumoured to contain human skeletons, would be known this month.

Leading a team to inspect Samae San Bay in Chonburi's Sattahip district, Porntip said two methods of inspection were on the table.

One was to cut open the container, believed from the coral growth to have been lying there for 20 years, and use a camera to survey it. The other was to lift the container out of the water and then open it.

The latter method would cost at least 10 million baht and might destroy fertile corals covering the container, she said.

Porntip said they had not cut it open on Friday as they feared the container might have explosives in it and they would first use a GT 200 bomb-detecter to check it.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he had assigned officials to assess the possibility of cutting open the container and using cameras to survey as it seemed on the face of it the more practicable way.

Regarding reports that many more containers were under the sea, Porntip said she could not confirm that. Villagers have confirmed the existence of this container.

Since this is not a normal sea-lane, it is impossible to assume that an accident led to the sinking of the container, she said. It is more likely that it was intentionally dumped, possibly for disposal of a dangerous substance, she added.

Regarding discovery of skulls, she said it was her personal view that they could be the remains of immigrant workers. The previous suspicion that they might be from the May 1992 incident is not totally ruled out yet, she added.

Porntip said that if the government made a quick decision, the truth should be known this month. As for the search for other containers, which the Navy minesweeper boats were asked to do, when to start should be known on Monday, she added.

Meanwhile, local residents, who asked not to be named, said seven containers had been detected by the radar of trawlers and urged the investigation to proceed without pleading budget restraints.

"If the government does not act, and soon, we, the people, will open the containers ourselves," they said.

They suspect that the container Porntip is working on contains dangerous substances or chemicals, as rumour has it that toxins from Rayong were regularly dumped.

But the other six containers remain a mystery because fat has reportedly leaked out of them and come to the surface, they said.

-- The Nation 2009-05-17

[sriracha john]

Probe into undersea container's mystery contents goes hi-tech

A cargo container retrieved from the sea off Juang island in Chonburi's Sattahip district could be drilled to see if human skeletons lie inside. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday approved the drilling operation.

A small camera would be inserted through the hole to view the interior of the container. However, Mr Abhisit said an estimate of the cost involved should be made first to avoid burdening state coffers. Drilling the container was a cheaper option than salvaging it from the seabed.

Mr Abhisit said investigators were working on a theory about the human skeletons, but nothing was known for sure. On Friday, a joint undersea survey by the Navy and the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) started after claims that three to five containers stuffed with human skeletons had been found under the sea off Samaesarn.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-17