Renewing Thai Driver's Licence.

[Ned]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

Don't know why Immigration would have to confirm a Non-O visa since it's stamped right in your passport.

I renewed my 5-year license last month out at Klong 4, Klong Luang District, Pathum Thani. Copy of passport, yes, photo not required as they do the digital one onsite.

Perhaps the DMV asked for confirmation of your address from Immigration? That seems to be a common need, or from your embassy for a whooping fee, at least at the U.S. Embassy.

I used my Yellow tambien ban, don't even remember if they asked for a copy of it, might just have accepted the address on my previous 5-year license.

Mac

[jackbox1982]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

Don't know why Immigration would have to confirm a Non-O visa since it's stamped right in your passport.

I renewed my 5-year license last month out at Klong 4, Klong Luang District, Pathum Thani. Copy of passport, yes, photo not required as they do the digital one onsite.

Perhaps the DMV asked for confirmation of your address from Immigration? That seems to be a common need, or from your embassy for a whooping fee, at least at the U.S. Embassy.

I used my Yellow tambien ban, don't even remember if they asked for a copy of it, might just have accepted the address on my previous 5-year license.

Mac

Hi Thanyaburimac,

I have just moved to Lumlukka and hence your post caught my eye as I will need to go to the Pathum Thani license office to renew my driving license.

You mentioned 'Copy of Passport'? Can u emphasize which pages they want?

I have my residence affidavit, health certificate in place.

Only thing missing would have to be a Non-Immigrant visa.

In ur opinion, would that be a problem? would I be able to renew my driving license on a tourist visa?

Would appreciate to get ur thoughts on this.

PS: I did the practical and theory tests back in Sep 08 while on a Non-Immigrant ED visa.

[lovelomsak]

I renewed mine yesterday. I needed 2 photocopies of my passport an 2 copies of my visa plus medical from doctor. The reason I needed 2 copies of passport and visa was one for motorcycle license and one for vehicles like cars and trucks,. They take the photo no problem there. Cosr 480 baht per license.Done in 10 minutes. Just give them old license and paper work goes quickly.

[chiang mai]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, tourists cannot apply for a Thai drivers license. But you say you have your residents affidavit (whatever that is) so maybe not a problem.

Also, I renewed my five year license in Phuket a week ago and proof of address is required. Either produce a residents or house book or a copy of your lease - in the case of the latter you will also need a copy of the property owners ID card, something that's hard to get where the landlord is a farang who lives overseas!

Also, also - photo's no longer needed for new style license and health certificate not needed either. Maybe the rules are different elsewhere but what I have described is what I required last week in Phuket and are in line with what others have posted recently in some other parts of the country.

Edited September 23, 2009 by chiang mai

[lovelomsak]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, tourists cannot apply for a Thai drivers license. But you say you have your residents affidavit (whatever that is) so maybe not a problem.

Also, I renewed my five year license in Phuket a week ago and proof of address is required. Either produce a residents or house book or a copy of your lease - in the case of the latter you will also need a copy of the property owners ID card, something that's hard to get where the landlord is a farang who lives overseas!

Also, also - photo's no longer needed for new style license and health certificate not needed either. Maybe the rules are different elsewhere but what I have described is what I required last week in Phuket and are in line with what others have posted recently in some other parts of the country.

Thought after reading chiang mai reply I should add one other thing. It seems by his reply that different offices have different requirements. I got mine yesterday as stated . I went there the day before I applied and ask the official what I needed then went back yesterday with everything he said I needed 'so easy.' The house book part I was told is only on first application once you have the license it is understood you have residence, being that you could not receive the first license without showing place of residence. That said even residence can be bypassed by simply getting a letter from embassy asking for help in obtaining a thai drivers license, but you must be in possession of a drivers license from your own country that you can present as proof of owning a license.

[CDNinKS]

Just renewed my licence after my one year expired. As other posters have already said, all that was required was a med certificate, passport copy, WP copy (address taken from there) and 655 Baht. The funny part is that while the girl was printing the new one, she made a mistake and only made it valid for a year instead of 5. She realized her mistake, cancelled the one year one and reissued me a new one.........the funny part is she made the new one valid for 6 years!

Edited September 24, 2009 by CDNinKS

[Thanyaburi Mac]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

Don't know why Immigration would have to confirm a Non-O visa since it's stamped right in your passport.

I renewed my 5-year license last month out at Klong 4, Klong Luang District, Pathum Thani. Copy of passport, yes, photo not required as they do the digital one onsite.

Perhaps the DMV asked for confirmation of your address from Immigration? That seems to be a common need, or from your embassy for a whooping fee, at least at the U.S. Embassy.

I used my Yellow tambien ban, don't even remember if they asked for a copy of it, might just have accepted the address on my previous 5-year license.

Mac

Hi Thanyaburimac,

I have just moved to Lumlukka and hence your post caught my eye as I will need to go to the Pathum Thani license office to renew my driving license.

You mentioned 'Copy of Passport'? Can u emphasize which pages they want?

I have my residence affidavit, health certificate in place.

Only thing missing would have to be a Non-Immigrant visa.

In ur opinion, would that be a problem? would I be able to renew my driving license on a tourist visa?

Would appreciate to get ur thoughts on this.

PS: I did the practical and theory tests back in Sep 08 while on a Non-Immigrant ED visa.

Jack

I'd bet lack of a Non-O visa would indeed be a problem, but what the hel_l, give it a try, if they say no, all you'll be out is a bit of time and gas/diesel/LPG/NGV to get to the DMV out at Klong 4 Klong Luang District.

Have you been there before? If not, take the Eastern Ring Road out past the Thanyaburi Interchange, about 8 km on, take the Klong Luang exit but DO NOT take the left on to the Klong Luang road. Go straight on under the overpass (you'll be on a sort of "local road" here. Continue on about 3-4 km until you get to the ICD, the Inland Container Depot. Left into the large compound, the DMV, well, Land Transport Department, building is right there on your left.

Mac

[cheshiremusicman]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know if you are aware of the fact that we were told not to apply for a new licence until the old one had expired. they refused a friend of mine when he applied on the day before the old one expired, strange but true!

[chiang mai]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know if you are aware of the fact that we were told not to apply for a new licence until the old one had expired. they refused a friend of mine when he applied on the day before the old one expired, strange but true!

It's true, the one year license cannot be renewed until it has expired but the five year license must be renewed before it expires.

Now stay alert here because there will be a quiz on all of this later and remain alert because we will change the rules in the most ridiculous ways, without notice and without telling anyone - what's that you say, logic, you must be joking.

[cheshiremusicman]

when I got the licence a few years ago I needed to go to the immigration police for a piece of paper confirming that I had a non o visa. Do I need to do that again when I go to renew it?....or anything else for that matter.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know if you are aware of the fact that we were told not to apply for a new licence until the old one had expired. they refused a friend of mine when he applied on the day before the old one expired, strange but true!

It's true, the one year license cannot be renewed until it has expired but the five year license must be renewed before it expires.

Now stay alert here because there will be a quiz on all of this later and remain alert because we will change the rules in the most ridiculous ways, without notice and without telling anyone - what's that you say, logic, you must be joking.

Any other 'alterations' during the last 24 hours???

[lovelomsak]

One thing we missed when one year expires you have one year to do renewal

[chiang mai]

One thing we missed when one year expires you have one year to do renewal

But it cannot be renewed on Tuesdays or Fridays between 10.00 and 11:20, not in any month containing the letter "e" and not within two days of a full moon.

[NanLaew]

Before this thread gets shut down because there is already a dedicated sticky post on Thai DL issues, it should be mentioned that not all LTO's have exactly the same policies regards foreigners and Thai DL applications and/or renewals. For example, there's been reports that the Pattaya LTO will not issue a new Thai DL to a TR visa holder and anyone on a TR visa with an existing 1-year or 5-year DL will only get a 1-year renewal and not a 5-year renewal.

[jackbox1982]

Before this thread gets shut down because there is already a dedicated sticky post on Thai DL issues, it should be mentioned that not all LTO's have exactly the same policies regards foreigners and Thai DL applications and/or renewals. For example, there's been reports that the Pattaya LTO will not issue a new Thai DL to a TR visa holder and anyone on a TR visa with an existing 1-year or 5-year DL will only get a 1-year renewal and not a 5-year renewal.

Hi, I believe that there should be a separate thread on the renewal of thai driving licenses for Tourist visa holders. This is becos most posts on the dedicated post point to successful renewing of licenses from people who hold Non-Immigrant visas.

Though I have also read somewhere that difference LTO works in different ways, few people (those on Tourist visas) post about their renewal experience. This is something I hope more ex-Non Immigrant visa holders would come out and share cos every year hoards of foreigners leave and arrive. While for those who left, the thai license may mean nothing to them now that they are back in their own country BUT for those who left and wanna return for whatever reasons, they would certainly want to know if they can renew their licenses.

It just like the 'Lonely-Planet guide to the LTOs which renew thai driving licenses for people on TR visa -which are the LTOs around Thailand which are less stringent on document checking, particularly the Non-Immigrant visa'.That sort of thing...Cheers

Jon

[pjclark1]

To get a new (first) Thai driving licence you need

1) * Certificate of residence, from immigration (500bht) or from your embassy

2) Driving medical, from any hospital (100bht)

3) **A valid driving licence in Thai or English along with an explanation of the codes on the Licence (or take the Thai driving test)

* you need proof of residence to take to immigration, so a letter from the landlord, copy of your lease or a photocopy of your gfs house registration book along with copies of her ID card (she has to sign each photocopy), 2 copies of the photo page and visa page and 2 passport photos. (My local immigration has a photocopier outside with a girl doing a roaring trade). It takes about 1/2 hour for them to type the letter.

** They want 2 of everything if you want a m/c licence and a car licence, 180bht each, but again there was a guy with a photocopier nearby.

Total cost to me for two licences 960bht (500 immigration, 100 hospital, 180 each licence)

1st issue valid 1 year, 1st renewal valid 5 years, 2nd renewal valid for life

[ChalongBoy]

No DL for tourists.. We LOS residents like to think that farang tourists get a bigger fine....... etc.

Proof of Residence. I took a copy of my lease and passport (of course) to Phuket immi office in Saphin Hin. On to the second floor and you can get a form that certifies your address. I got a few copies as I neede one to buy a car also! No House owner card or anything etc.

The nearby Land and Trans office processed my DL change of address (aren't I good little boy) needing only my Passport, Visa, Immi Stamp in, and the cert of residence I had gotton for Toyota!

Unless I'm very much mistaken, tourists cannot apply for a Thai drivers license. But you say you have your residents affidavit (whatever that is) so maybe not a problem.

Also, I renewed my five year license in Phuket a week ago and proof of address is required. Either produce a residents or house book or a copy of your lease - in the case of the latter you will also need a copy of the property owners ID card, something that's hard to get where the landlord is a farang who lives overseas!

Also, also - photo's no longer needed for new style license and health certificate not needed either. Maybe the rules are different elsewhere but what I have described is what I required last week in Phuket and are in line with what others have posted recently in some other parts of the country.

[NanLaew]

To get a new (first) Thai driving licence you need

1) * Certificate of residence, from immigration (500bht) or from your embassy

2) Driving medical, from any hospital (100bht)

3) **A valid driving licence in Thai or English along with an explanation of the codes on the Licence (or take the Thai driving test)

* you need proof of residence to take to immigration, so a letter from the landlord, copy of your lease or a photocopy of your gfs house registration book along with copies of her ID card (she has to sign each photocopy), 2 copies of the photo page and visa page and 2 passport photos. (My local immigration has a photocopier outside with a girl doing a roaring trade). It takes about 1/2 hour for them to type the letter.

** They want 2 of everything if you want a m/c licence and a car licence, 180bht each, but again there was a guy with a photocopier nearby.

Total cost to me for two licences 960bht (500 immigration, 100 hospital, 180 each licence)

1st issue valid 1 year, 1st renewal valid 5 years, 2nd renewal valid for life

Very comprehensive pj but not much use as a reference without:

A ) Type of visa you had/have

B ) What LTO you applied at, and

C ) How long ago; you refer to the 2nd 'five-year' DL so must we assume that your post doesn't indicate the true time stamp?

The reason this info is needed is because:

A ) RECENT applicants and/or renewal candidates with TR visa's have reported denial or only 1-year renewals.

B ) LTO's do NOT have a common policy, and

C ) See A ) The 'rules' change FREQUENTLY.

[prodriver]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

[jackbox1982]

To get a new (first) Thai driving licence you need

1) * Certificate of residence, from immigration (500bht) or from your embassy

2) Driving medical, from any hospital (100bht)

3) **A valid driving licence in Thai or English along with an explanation of the codes on the Licence (or take the Thai driving test)

* you need proof of residence to take to immigration, so a letter from the landlord, copy of your lease or a photocopy of your gfs house registration book along with copies of her ID card (she has to sign each photocopy), 2 copies of the photo page and visa page and 2 passport photos. (My local immigration has a photocopier outside with a girl doing a roaring trade). It takes about 1/2 hour for them to type the letter.

** They want 2 of everything if you want a m/c licence and a car licence, 180bht each, but again there was a guy with a photocopier nearby.

Total cost to me for two licences 960bht (500 immigration, 100 hospital, 180 each licence)

1st issue valid 1 year, 1st renewal valid 5 years, 2nd renewal valid for life

Very comprehensive pj but not much use as a reference without:

A ) Type of visa you had/have

B ) What LTO you applied at, and

C ) How long ago; you refer to the 2nd 'five-year' DL so must we assume that your post doesn't indicate the true time stamp?

The reason this info is needed is because:

A ) RECENT applicants and/or renewal candidates with TR visa's have reported denial or only 1-year renewals.

B ) LTO's do NOT have a common policy, and

C ) See A ) The 'rules' change FREQUENTLY.

I absolutely have to agree with your inputs NanLaew. Not sure if you have your side of experience/story to share?

Jon

[mizzi39]

To get a new (first) Thai driving licence you need

1) * Certificate of residence, from immigration (500bht) or from your embassy

2) Driving medical, from any hospital (100bht)

3) **A valid driving licence in Thai or English along with an explanation of the codes on the Licence (or take the Thai driving test)

* you need proof of residence to take to immigration, so a letter from the landlord, copy of your lease or a photocopy of your gfs house registration book along with copies of her ID card (she has to sign each photocopy), 2 copies of the photo page and visa page and 2 passport photos. (My local immigration has a photocopier outside with a girl doing a roaring trade). It takes about 1/2 hour for them to type the letter.

** They want 2 of everything if you want a m/c licence and a car licence, 180bht each, but again there was a guy with a photocopier nearby.

Total cost to me for two licences 960bht (500 immigration, 100 hospital, 180 each licence)

1st issue valid 1 year, 1st renewal valid 5 years, 2nd renewal valid for life

Very comprehensive pj but not much use as a reference without:

A ) Type of visa you had/have

B ) What LTO you applied at, and

C ) How long ago; you refer to the 2nd 'five-year' DL so must we assume that your post doesn't indicate the true time stamp?

The reason this info is needed is because:

A ) RECENT applicants and/or renewal candidates with TR visa's have reported denial or only 1-year renewals.

B ) LTO's do NOT have a common policy, and

C ) See A ) The 'rules' change FREQUENTLY.

I absolutely have to agree with your inputs NanLaew. Not sure if you have your side of experience/story to share?

Jon

Don't know anyone who has ever received a Thai DL on a tourist visa, (maybe Ko San road) even up here in the sticks. When i got my Thai DL they were very direct on what documentation was needed, and visa status was at the top of the list. No Non B or Non O= no license.

[chiang mai]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

Agreed on all points except that the Immigration lads still seem to want a tip and of course the rules do seem to change based on location, and time of day, and phase of the moon! I just renewed my five year license here in Phuket and a free residence certificate was on offer. However, in order to get the document for free I had to produce either my house book or my lease and since I rent my house I produced the latter. But then the catch, if producing a lease agreement then the lease issuers ID card is required and since in my case this happens to be an absent farang landlord, guess what, 300 baht please, just to oil the wheels! I don't know about anyone else but I simply have to admire the depth and complexity of their deviousness.

[rickthailand]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

I just got my residency certificate from chiang mai immi and was charged 500 bath also

rick

[MarcoH]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

I just got my residency certificate from chiang mai immi and was charged 500 bath also

rick

I got mine 2days ago in Ubon imm Phibun 300thb

Also i can input how difficult is 5yr re-newal in UBON, it took me 1h 55min and Class room intor 30minutes is mandatory for all renewals, that class room contain 30min talk with teacher about traffic rules and traffic signs, how ever NO test in the end. Farang's no need to sit in the class room i sat outside and talk to my wife and had a test to her how much she remember the traffic signs.

I have in EU, Semi truck license, but that is no any kind of influence here as they wanna have they own way.

I can say that after i have read this topic over and over again, UBON must be THE worst place to get license, every single time i have re-newed my licences,(Moto or car) they have change the rules and it's also changes who ever happens to sit in the chair that day...

Almost forgot, my re-newal for 2nd 5yrs licence, lady in the counter was all smiles as she present my NEW 10yrs license, i asked what 10yrs, she pointed out of the dates,, yes it is 10yrs,, i said no it's not, it's 5yrs BUT Smart thais again went back wards,, they issue 10yrs license but starting day was SET 2004 valid until 2014,,,i honestly dont see any logic on this one,,,as it's end of 09 now,, why set validity date back wards??

any one else has noticed this or is this again UBON thing?

Edited October 9, 2009 by MarcoH

[prodriver]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

I just got my residency certificate from chiang mai immi and was charged 500 bath also

rick

I got mine 2days ago in Ubon imm Phibun 300thb

Also i can input how difficult is 5yr re-newal in UBON, it took me 1h 55min and Class room intor 30minutes is mandatory for all renewals, that class room contain 30min talk with teacher about traffic rules and traffic signs, how ever NO test in the end. Farang's no need to sit in the class room i sat outside and talk to my wife and had a test to her how much she remember the traffic signs.

I have in EU, Semi truck license, but that is no any kind of influence here as they wanna have they own way.

I can say that after i have read this topic over and over again, UBON must be THE worst place to get license, every single time i have re-newed my licences,(Moto or car) they have change the rules and it's also changes who ever happens to sit in the chair that day...

Almost forgot, my re-newal for 2nd 5yrs licence, lady in the counter was all smiles as she present my NEW 10yrs license, i asked what 10yrs, she pointed out of the dates,, yes it is 10yrs,, i said no it's not, it's 5yrs BUT Smart thais again went back wards,, they issue 10yrs license but starting day was SET 2004 valid until 2014,,,i honestly dont see any logic on this one,,,as it's end of 09 now,, why set validity date back wards??

any one else has noticed this or is this again UBON thing?

No, it's not just an UBON thing. I recently renewed my 5 year licences and the issue date on the licences is 4 April 2001.

I remember that when I first applied for my licences it was on 4 April but after I had had 1 year licences for about 3 years I was then issued with 5 year licences which were valid until my birthdate in October this year. So I effectively got 5 1/2 years from my last licence. I believe that they put the issue date from when you first obtained your Thai licences.

I would hazard a guess that you first got your licences in 2004.

[MarcoH]

No, actually i got my 1st licence back in 1997, but then again like you somehow they desided that they only issue 1yr license and then eventually 5yrs ago i got my 5yr's license back,,so they uses that day...

but like always, thing's change here so often that it's impossible to keep up with them,, and im just happy that this time they gave me 5yrs license...but again it was hassle here..

[OxfordWill]

Ive had my TDL from day one with a tourist visa. Never a question asked. Got it in Nong Khai mind you. So, it expires tomorrow. Its the one year one. Is it really the case that I cannot renew it until it's expired?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ive had my TDL from day one with a tourist visa. Never a question asked. Got it in Nong Khai mind you. So, it expires tomorrow. Its the one year one. Is it really the case that I cannot renew it until it's expired?

Yup. It must be expired. You can apply for a 5 year one this time. ( but the rules state you have to hold a Non-Immigrant visa )

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

Even Thai's are not issued with life licences any more. It is a one year first passport, and thereafter 5 year renewals.

[prodriver]

I don't know which part of Thailand you get your driving licences from "pjclark1" but I cannot agree with you on at least two points you make in your posting.

1. two photos required. No photos needed nowadays as they take them at the Licencing centre.

2. 2nd renewal is for life. I just did my second 5 year renewal which is valid for a further 5 years. Not for life as you state.

I renewed my licences yesterday and you can read my report in the 'pinned' section of this forum.

Also, if your immigration office is one that is still prepared to issue a 'residence certificate', it should be free of charge... you paid 500 baht???

Even Thai's are not issued with life licences any more. It is a one year first passport, and thereafter 5 year renewals.

Yeah! And that's why my missus didn't want to change her m/c licence up to one of the new style ones when I was going for my 5 year renewal recently..... she has one of those valid for life jobbies