Rights are not bestowed by God or Gaia. We are not naturally born with rights. Rights are afforded by society.

Those statements are certainly a matter of opinion and not ones which I share. The key issue for me is rather elementary - we are either free or we are not. There is no grey area. For as soon as there is a single instance where we are manipulated by another against our choosing, whether for our benefit or not - be it another person, entity, or even God himself, we have lost our freedom to choose for ourselves. I cannot think of many human attributes which are dearer to us than our freedom. I would be the last to argue against it. In fact, I will be the first to advocate freedom, most fervently, even to those who would deny it for themselves.

If there was anything God, All-That-Is, or whatever tag you choose to use bestowed upon us it was freedom.

And yes, none of the above can be proven.

Freedom is a fallacy. It's a state of mind. Firstly, because your freedoms end a few inches from my nose. You can not be truly free without impingeing on other people's "freedoms".

Are children "free" or do they have to be forced to learn discipline etc?

Is there an age of majority for freedom?

You are not free to avoid the consequences of your actions. You are not free to choose your parents. You are not free to choose to live forever, you are not free to live in society without following the rules set by that society..... etc etc. Or am I taking you too literaly?

Some human attributes that are dearer to me than the limited freedoms that I have in reality are the attributes of conscious thought, conceptual thought, and critical thought. The attribute of finding joy in beauty, pleasure in music, the ability to love and to feel loved.....

If you maintain that "rights" are not man-made, then I would have to argue against dogma, and I don't want to do that here or now.

Actually, with a bit of thought, I can probably prove that "rights" are a construct of mankind.

Do other animals of nature confer rights to each other?

What "rights" do Papuan Highlanders have as they go about their day to day hunting and gathering?

Do Uigars in China have the same "rights" as you? Do women in Afghanistan?.....Why not? Because they are in different societies and they have different rights, as their society has dictated.

Ahhh...."as society has dictated"....hmmmm...... I can see this leading to some sort of conclusion that the closest you can come to true freedom can only occur outside of any society because of the very fact of the existance of "rights".

A paradox: Your right to freedom is hindered by the fact that you have that right.

I shall cogitate.

I shall cogitate.

You do that, my friend.

I shall cogitate.

You do that, my friend.

Actually, I went shopping then cooked dinner for when the GF gets home. We've eaten and I've had a few bourbons now. Ben Harper's "Burn One Down" is playing in my mind......

So being in a very cogitative mood.....I'll burble a little.

"A paradox: Your right to freedom is hindered by the fact that you have that right."

I've thought about it and I like it still. This paradox exists.

I shall cogitate.

You do that, my friend.

Actually, I went shopping then cooked dinner for when the GF gets home. We've eaten and I've had a few bourbons now. Ben Harper's "Burn One Down" is playing in my mind......

So being in a very cogitative mood.....I'll burble a little.

"A paradox: Your right to freedom is hindered by the fact that you have that right."

I've thought about it and I like it still. This paradox exists.

I'll take a stab at rewording that: Your have the right to limit your rights.

I suggest you have the right to limit your rights, but you also have an obligation to do so.

At first I thought that the paradox was dependant upon the assumption that rights are a man-made construct and that if one considers some rights to be God-given, the argument falls over......but I was wrong.

Even if rights are God-given, the paradox of freedom stands. With rights comes responsibility even if those responsibilities are obligations to the Right-Giving-God.....thus you are still not truly free.

Furthermore, I suggest that the responsibilities that come with rights are not only obligations to a deity but can be obligations, even a mandate, to other restrictions such as following the traffic rules or using good manners....or limiting your rights.