No One Will Forgive If Pattaya Violence Happens Again: Chuan

[george]

No one will forgive if Pattaya violence happens again : Chuan

BANGKOK: -- Abhisit government should be more careful with red shirted protest on September 19 because nobody will forgive if chaos like in Pattaya took place again, former Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai said Wednesday.

Chuan, also former Democrat leader, was referring to a rally of the pro-Thaksin protesters planned on the day a coup d'etat ousted then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"The government should be more careful concerning the September 19 rally. Otherwise there could possibly be problems like what happened in Pattaya in April," Chuan said.

"Nobody will forgive if such chaos happens again," he said.

Red shirted protesters stormed into annex building of Asean Summit in Pattaya, forcing Abhisit government to cancel the summit. Some leaders were evacuated from the meeting hotel by helicopter to an airport to return home.

The government issued a state of emergency in Pattaya and Chon Buri.

"According to the constitution, people could gather and rally to express their opinions. But they have to adhere to the laws," he said.

He also referred to the government's imposing of the Internal Security Law last week, a few days before red shirts organised a mass rally on August 30. However they postponed the rally, citing the ISA stopped them from rallying.

Chuan said the government should be understood that if they did not prepare anything, they would certainly be criticised of being imprudent.

-- The Nation 2009-09-02

[animatic]

Correct assessment.

[Jingthing]

Yes, after Black Songkran, the reds are the devil we know, and we know they have a history of becoming very violent. Being anything other than totally prepared for their revolutionary tactics would be foolhardy.

[givenall]

Yes, after Black Songkran, the reds are the devil we know, and we know they have a history of becoming very violent. Being anything other than totally prepared for their revolutionary tactics would be foolhardy.

It is time to disallow any demonstration planned for the 19^th. Forget democracy and do allow these people create chaos for this country again and again

[frodo]

Yes, after Black Songkran, the reds are the devil we know, and we know they have a history of becoming very violent. Being anything other than totally prepared for their revolutionary tactics would be foolhardy.

It is time to disallow any demonstration planned for the 19^th. Forget democracy and do allow these people create chaos for this country again and again

Believe it or not, there are some even on this board who would approve of your second statement, however, they would claim it is a democratic right, and any intervention to protect the city would be considered anti-democracy. Go figure.

[Jingthing]

If they are limited to peaceful rallies, they will lose interest. Now we will here the predictable but what about the yellow airport takeover. What about it? That was then, this is now, government by rule of mob has got to stop sometime and now is the time.

[EndofDays]

If they are limited to peaceful rallies, they will lose interest. Now we will here the predictable but what about the yellow airport takeover. What about it? That was then, this is now, government by rule of mob has got to stop sometime and now is the time.

...of course the Yellows are in power now, so.......

[smallprawn]

Correct assessment.

Absolute piss take.

[smallprawn]

Correct assessment.

Absolute piss take.

Lets not bother wasting time on the 'Yellows' decision to hold the country to ransom or the strong hand tacticts they employ, or the laughable reaction from the security forces and the family which they control.

I would love to debate this topic. However, I am not allowed to do so?

In a counrty where freedom of speach is against the law, it is impossible to even attempt addressing the issues at hand.

[Maestro]

A flaming post and thereply to it have been deleted.

--

Maestro

[SHYTALK]

Correct assessment.

Absolute piss take.

Lets not bother wasting time on the 'Yellows' decision to hold the country to ransom or the strong hand tacticts they employ, or the laughable reaction from the security forces and the family which they control.

I would love to debate this topic. However, I am not allowed to do so?

In a counrty where freedom of speach is against the law, it is impossible to even attempt addressing the issues at hand.

Correct Assessment

[SHYTALK]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

[Jingthing]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[tmd5855]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

When you say "it's all so unfair and so totally hypocritical"

Are you referring to the removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

Are you refering to how the goverment voted in by the people was dissolved by the courts, not once but twice?

I do not care what views people have on a foreign country and its election process or lack of.

But, it makes me smile when same people object to certain groups, do not wish them to have a voice or representation.

No matter what way they dress it up, they are against democracy.

If there was an election here in Thailand say, tomorrow who would win. Obviously the troublemakers you refer to, yes, possible?

You may not like those people, but hey, are you in favour of dictatorship or democracy.

Does the will of the people not count??

[Artisi]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

Agreed, it's now time for the majority to put thaksin and his not so merry men into the round filing basket and move on. The sooner the news media and the thaksin lovers on thaivisa get over thaksin and the need to report his every bowel movement as a means of promoting themselves the better it will be for all concerned and Thailand as a whole.

[mc2]

no one will forgive if pattaya violence happens again ????

ummmmmm

what about the yellows airport takeover on BLACK SUNAVARNBHUMI that caused billions of damage to the economy and tourism ?

most of the dems were cheering ! there were even a few actively involved.

hypocrite dems !

[Plus]

... removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

The guy was an interim PM for over half a year, not democractically elected. He couldn't get elected in April, remember? And the stuff he tried to pull off to win should have permanently disqaulify him from talking anything about "elections" and "democratic", but he got five year ban instead.

[mc2]

And the stuff he tried to pull off to win should have permanently disqaulify him from talking anything about "elections" and "democratic", but he got five year ban instead.

The military has had 3 years on a desperate mission to nail him with everything they can find (in order to justify their coup and save face) but they basically havent found anything let alone grounds for "permanent disqualification".

[Spee]

Yes, after Black Songkran, the reds are the devil we know, and we know they have a history of becoming very violent. Being anything other than totally prepared for their revolutionary tactics would be foolhardy.

It is time to disallow any demonstration planned for the 19^th. Forget democracy and do allow these people create chaos for this country again and again

Believe it or not, there are some even on this board who would approve of your second statement, however, they would claim it is a democratic right, and any intervention to protect the city would be considered anti-democracy. Go figure.

Right of peaceful assembly and dissent should be part of a democracy. Causing chaos, civil unrest and violence without fear of penalty or repercussion is certainly not democratic in any way, shape or form.

My fingers are crossed but I'm not overly optimistic.

[webfact]

COUP ANNIVERSARY

Sept 19 rally will be peaceful, Jatuporn says

By The Nation

Published on September 3, 2009

The red-shirt rally planned for September 19 to mark opposition over the 2006 coup will a one-day event,

organisers said yesterday, in a bid to dismiss concern about a lengthy protest.

"The red shirts will rally for just one day on September 19 before dispersing around midnight," organiser Jatuporn Promphan said.

Jatuporn sought to play down speculation that the rally might spiral out of control and become an uprising to overthrow the government.

He said authorities had gone overboard to portray the red shirts in a bad light.

"If the government is to collapse, its downfall will be triggered by its own flaws and not outside elements like the red shirts."

He criticised government plans to enforce the security law, claiming the situation did not warrant such measures.

He said Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva should reflect on the state of disarray within the coalition instead of trying to blame to the red shirts for problems.

Abhisit's predicament was his feelings had been hurt by coalition allies over the nomination of a new police chief and defence minister, he said.

If a coup happened while Abhisit was in New York later this month, it would only be because of the prime minister's "stupidity" in enforcing the security law, and paving way for his allies to oust him, he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban voiced optimism that he could control the rally. He asked people not to speculate about the rally, saying that would cause undue concern.

He vowed to keep the peace and prevent the crowd from turning unruly, saying he would put every contingency in place, including possible enforcement of the security law.

He dismissed claims that Abhisit might suffer the same fate as that befell Thaksin, who was in New York three years ago when topped by the coup.

Interior Minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul said politics could be at a critical juncture because changes often occurred in September or October.

Meanwhile, former prime minister Chuan Leekpai said the government should be careful about the red shirts' protest on September 19, as nobody would forgive them if chaos erupted again like that in Pattaya in April.

"The government should be more careful concerning the September 19 rally. Otherwise there could possibly be problems like what happened in Pattaya in April," Chuan said.

"Nobody would forgive if such chaos happened again."

Red-shirt protesters stormed a building where the Asean Summit was being staged in Pattaya on April 11, forcing the government to cancel the event. Top overseas leaders had to be evacuated from the hotel by helicopter before flying home.

-- The Nation 2009/03/09

[frodo]

Yes, after Black Songkran, the reds are the devil we know, and we know they have a history of becoming very violent. Being anything other than totally prepared for their revolutionary tactics would be foolhardy.

It is time to disallow any demonstration planned for the 19^th. Forget democracy and do allow these people create chaos for this country again and again

Believe it or not, there are some even on this board who would approve of your second statement, however, they would claim it is a democratic right, and any intervention to protect the city would be considered anti-democracy. Go figure.

Right of peaceful assembly and dissent should be part of a democracy. Causing chaos, civil unrest and violence without fear of penalty or repercussion is certainly not democratic in any way, shape or form.

My fingers are crossed but I'm not overly optimistic.

Couldn't have said it better.

[tmd5855]

... removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

The guy was an interim PM for over half a year, not democractically elected. He couldn't get elected in April, remember? And the stuff he tried to pull off to win should have permanently disqaulify him from talking anything about "elections" and "democratic", but he got five year ban instead.

Obviously, you are not aware, or just do not know Thai political history.

Thaksin was first elected in 2001, first PM to serve a full term.

Re-elected with the largest recorded vote in 2005.

Deposed in 2006 in military coup. TRT banned.

Post coup elections successor to TRT party win but are slowly removed from power by the constutional court.

To say the red shirts are the baddies make me wonder on the democratic views some TV members hold.

My view is the yellow and red power brokers have no interest in Thailand or its people. They are pushing their own agenda.

Yellows do not want to see their "Place" in Thailand threatened. The red shirts would like to taste power again.

But hey, do we have democracy, one man one vote and the party who gets the most/majority votes takes office.

Or ignore the democraticly elected individuals, grab power and exclude others by fair or foul means.

I support democracy, does not always give the goverment I want, but my vote is no better than Jimmy up the road, or down the valley.

Take away democratic rule you have unruly mobs and gangs (Being controlled) wanting justice............................aka red shirts.

[LomSak27]

Jinthing posted Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

It never ceases to amaze me how many westerners have bought the idea old Toxic was more corrupt than the Democrats. I suspect all they have ever known of LOS is Toxic and have nothing to compare it with.

Obviously, you are not aware, or just do not know Thai political history.

Thaksin was first elected in 2001, first PM to serve a full term.

Re-elected with the largest recorded vote in 2005.

Deposed in 2006 in military coup. TRT banned.

Thanks TMD 5855 for the refresher

[cloudhopper]

"According to the constitution, people could gather and rally to express their opinions. But they have to adhere to the laws," he said.

No they don't - and never will until the laws are actually enforced here.

Edited September 3, 2009 by cloudhopper

[doggie888888]

Oh, aren't Thais supposed to be a forgiving lot?

Besides, if I had voted in a free and fair election...only to be told, over and over again, that my choice is not the right "answer" because:

1) my lot is uneducated and therefore cannot possibly make an informed vote, yet there is no strategy to improve voter education

2) my candidate is corrupt in an environment where even the accusers are guilty of the same crimes

3) when my lot protest, it's "not in the interest of the country" and the full force of the law is applied (rightfully) yet, when the other side protests resulting in arguably more damaging actions in closing the major airport, the army/police watch the mob and till now nobody is found to be responsible.

I don't know about you, but if I were a citizen in such a country, I'd be out on the streets until I am convinced that we will never ever return to the status quo. After all, I am impoverished and uneducated so what else do I have to lose?

As for Thailand, I am merely a foreigner here with no say, no vote and of no consequence...so I can only wish the Thais good luck in resolving this quagmire.

[hammered]

I notice this thread has degenerated into the usual stuff.

I wonder if anyone has an opinion on what people will think if another Pattaya occurs?

Myself I think it will undermine both Abhisit and the reds and I think that may well be the game. Other analysis would be that it would indicate that Abhisit had made the wrong decisons and needed to be replaced with a stronger man while also undermining the reds. Remember too that the PM has the power to disolve the house and I am sure there are some harder elements that dont like that being in Abhisit's hands.

Either way, I would think more shadowy forces would benefit.

Interesting analysis today by Yoon too where he speculates that Thaksin doesnt really want an election becuse PTP may well win but be unable to manipulate his return which complicates things. Maybe creating ever more gridlock and having opponents in power until all grinds to a halt and compromise is forced is a better game plan for him.

[Samuian]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

When you say "it's all so unfair and so totally hypocritical"

Are you referring to the removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

Are you refering to how the goverment voted in by the people was dissolved by the courts, not once but twice?

I do not care what views people have on a foreign country and its election process or lack of.

But, it makes me smile when same people object to certain groups, do not wish them to have a voice or representation.

No matter what way they dress it up, they are against democracy.

If there was an election here in Thailand say, tomorrow who would win. Obviously the troublemakers you refer to, yes, possible?

You may not like those people, but hey, are you in favour of dictatorship or democracy.

Does the will of the people not count??

It's not about dress, the color of it, or otherwise, nor about "freedom of expression"!

It's about agenda, the agenda of the red shirt's core turned out to be pro-Thaksin and

their "pro-Democracy" slogans aren't worth the paper and banners they're printed on!

They have way too many times shown their real intentions - many people distrust them

Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon, especially after Songkran day in Bangkok!

Never to mention that the PAD's gatherings and demonstrations widely remained peaceful.

There might be some rural grass root people easily convinced through their usual betrayal,

empty promises and the like - but the majority is keeping distance and till now quiet.

Stop trying to convince people with lies - you hurt yourself and the movement's goals

you and all it's supporters claim to stand for!

The "will of the people", the elections have been widely rigged, that's why the results have been

questioned again and again - nothing to do with "democracy" Thaksin's TRT absolut majority was

going to be a dictatorship - stop talking the ever ongoing repetitive nonsense!

And "the man" wasn't "good", he was and still is a thread to safety, welfare and freedom of the people here!

He is proving it day by day, "phone-in" by "phone-in" while in self imposed exile - fleeing justice!

Sorry he couldn't have the same panel of judges who let him off the hook years ago in his assets case-

where he admitted to have made "honest mistakes" in signing his shares to his driver, gardener, housekeeper,

secretary and his kids.... exceptionally "honest" man - not to mention the other pending lawsuits against him

do you really wish someone like this as prime Minister as the "show case" and representative of Thailand - after all?

Not to mention Bak Tai, Krue Sea the extra judicial killings of thousands of people.... people do have right's -

all of them not just a few who believe they can take the law into their hands...!

It has come way too obvious that there are people with bad intentions and hidden agendas -

May Thailand and it's people remain protected from this mob through legal means and move on with

more important business!

Edited September 3, 2009 by Samuian

[Samuian]

I notice this thread has degenerated into the usual stuff.

I wonder if anyone has an opinion on what people will think if another Pattaya occurs?

Myself I think it will undermine both Abhisit and the reds and I think that may well be the game. Other analysis would be that it would indicate that Abhisit had made the wrong decisons and needed to be replaced with a stronger man while also undermining the reds. Remember too that the PM has the power to disolve the house and I am sure there are some harder elements that dont like that being in Abhisit's hands.

Either way, I would think more shadowy forces would benefit.

Interesting analysis today by Yoon too where he speculates that Thaksin doesnt really want an election becuse PTP may well win but be unable to manipulate his return which complicates things. Maybe creating ever more gridlock and having opponents in power until all grinds to a halt and compromise is forced is a better game plan for him.

It won't happen - unless someone shoots at government security forces and they in turn lose it - which seems unlikely.

The "unseen hand" might, after all not be underestimated, things are pretty much on it's way, even Jakrapob

has mentioned that "game's over" for the reds and for Mr.T. , as well as they seem to drift apart, slowly but surely -

by now it's the wrong color!

Using Red:

Use the color red to grab attention and to get people to take action. Use red when you don't want to sink into the background. Use red to suggest speed combined with confidence and perhaps even a dash of danger. A little bit of red goes a long way. Small doses can often be more effective than large amounts of this strong color. Multiple shades of red and even pink or orange can combine for a cheerful palette.

Flashing red lights denote danger or emergency. Stop signs and stop lights are red to get the drivers' attention and alert them to the dangers of the intersection.

Journalists, Editors have to come up with some palatable story every day - I have read a lot coming from

the English printed news here...well, well, well - it's certainly opinion - but everyone is entitled to have one

and this doesn't compulsively mean that one single opinion has to be the right one - hitting the bulls eye!

[tmd5855]

Don't recall hearing Chuan lecturing the PAD and yellows about adhering to the law over the illegal airport occupation.

Yes, its all so terribly unfair and so totally hypocritical!

Back to reality, it is time to grow up and accept that there really is no consensus for Thaksin to return as dictator of Thailand and the majority of Thais don't believe the red mobs are pro democracy, not to mention they aren't all that passionate about democracy to begin with.

Old Mr. T rolled the dice during Black Songkran, there was going to be a winner, and there was going to be a loser, check the press, he said that himself. Guess what? HE LOST. Get over it. It is now the POST THAKSIN ERA.

When you say "it's all so unfair and so totally hypocritical"

Are you referring to the removal of a democraticaly elected goverment and prime minister in a coup de tat?

Are you refering to how the goverment voted in by the people was dissolved by the courts, not once but twice?

I do not care what views people have on a foreign country and its election process or lack of.

But, it makes me smile when same people object to certain groups, do not wish them to have a voice or representation.

No matter what way they dress it up, they are against democracy.

If there was an election here in Thailand say, tomorrow who would win. Obviously the troublemakers you refer to, yes, possible?

You may not like those people, but hey, are you in favour of dictatorship or democracy.

Does the will of the people not count??

It's not about dress, the color of it, or otherwise, nor about "freedom of expression"!

It's about agenda, the agenda of the red shirt's core turned out to be pro-Thaksin and

their "pro-Democracy" slogans aren't worth the paper and banners they're printed on!

They have way too many times shown their real intentions - many people distrust them

Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Udon, especially after Songkran day in Bangkok!

Never to mention that the PAD's gatherings and demonstrations widely remained peaceful.

There might be some rural grass root people easily convinced through their usual betrayal,

empty promises and the like - but the majority is keeping distance and till now quiet.

Stop trying to convince people with lies - you hurt yourself and the movement's goals

you and all it's supporters claim to stand for!

The "will of the people", the elections have been widely rigged, that's why the results have been

questioned again and again - nothing to do with "democracy" Thaksin's TRT absolut majority was

going to be a dictatorship - stop talking the ever ongoing repetitive nonsense!

And "the man" wasn't "good", he was and still is a thread to safety, welfare and freedom of the people here!

He is proving it day by day, "phone-in" by "phone-in" while in self imposed exile - fleeing justice!

Sorry he couldn't have the same panel of judges who let him off the hook years ago in his assets case-

where he admitted to have made "honest mistakes" in signing his shares to his driver, gardener, housekeeper,

secretary and his kids.... exceptionally "honest" man - not to mention the other pending lawsuits against him

do you really wish someone like this as prime Minister as the "show case" and representative of Thailand - after all?

Not to mention Bak Tai, Krue Sea the extra judicial killings of thousands of people.... people do have right's -

all of them not just a few who believe they can take the law into their hands...!

It has come way too obvious that there are people with bad intentions and hidden agendas -

May Thailand and it's people remain protected from this mob through legal means and move on with

more important business!

So do you believe in one man one vote and the party that gets the most wins??

Or certain people should not have the vote and those that have the apparatus of the state at their disposal wins.

It is not about Thaksin.......................... It is about protecting democracy and voting out of power those we do not want/like/trust.

At the end of the day an unelected group of people, deposed an elected group of people.

That is morally wrong and does not augur well for the future

[animatic]

Yes, after Black Songkran, the reds are the devil we know, and we know they have a history of becoming very violent. Being anything other than totally prepared for their revolutionary tactics would be foolhardy.

It is time to disallow any demonstration planned for the 19^th. Forget democracy and do allow these people create chaos for this country again and again

Believe it or not, there are some even on this board who would approve of your second statement, however, they would claim it is a democratic right, and any intervention to protect the city would be considered anti-democracy. Go figure.

Right of peaceful assembly and dissent should be part of a democracy. Causing chaos, civil unrest and violence without fear of penalty or repercussion is certainly not democratic in any way, shape or form.

My fingers are crossed but I'm not overly optimistic.

The operative word here is PEACEFUL.

If peaceful is not expected, then the government MUST be prepared to deal with it.

The rest of these other red 'trolling posts' need no substantive reply. Well maybe one or two.

They are based on twisted logic or wishful thinking, out right falaccy, and not on truth.