Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[maxtingtong]

This could be the end of back to back Tourist Visas.

So it would seem Lite Beer. I meet a lot of backpackers etc who enter Thailand on 15/30 visa exempt stamps and then decide to extend their stay with visa runs to Penang etc, many staying for 6 months or more. Looks like these genuine tourists may have their stay curtailed due to a lack of forward planning.

6 months of tourist visa in Thailand for tourist purpose indeed? That sounds fake to me and I cannot believe that even backpackers want to stay more than 1 or 2 months in this country for genuine tourist reason. Usually either they found a Thai girlfriend with whom they want to stay any time longer and which forces them to look for a job (on tourist visa) or they came in with the sole purpose of finding a job in the first place. But the first reason is outnumbering the second one...

I been 4 months two years ago and 8 months last year around there, and NEVER worked there. I met many people like me. What's so strange if someone have saved his money in his homecountry and go there to spend it for long time? Or the family cover expenses, or if for other reason can i afford to don't work all year round? Thai immigration don't you like it? Ok then, from next year I'll move to other countries, where to give them my money i don't have any headache.

[thykeeper]

This is the bottom line: you can't compare USA and developed countries with Thailand, we don't need/can't support more people in our economies. Some people have $10,000 and want to stay in Thailand for a year or over because that's how they choose to spend their money. Not working, just spending money. Doesn't Thailand need this? Maybe the governments too proud to admit it's poor and needs foreign investment?

Why all the talk about "just follow the law"? What law can they follow? Where's their visa???

Now people with this plan REALLY risk being rejected and should consider choosing another country. My only regret is wasting the time to learn to read and write Thai which is useless outside the country. Bad news this is....

[JR Texas]

This is the bottom line: you can't compare USA and developed countries with Thailand, we don't need/can't support more people in our economies. Some people have $10,000 and want to stay in Thailand for a year or over because that's how they choose to spend their money. Not working, just spending money. Doesn't Thailand need this? Maybe the governments too proud to admit it's poor and needs foreign investment?

Why all the talk about "just follow the law"? What law can they follow? Where's their visa???

Now people with this plan REALLY risk being rejected and should consider choosing another country. My only regret is wasting the time to learn to read and write Thai which is useless outside the country. Bad news this is....

Good post..........yet another example of xenophobia rising in Thailand........the people who are making these rules are stupid beyond imagination. The people who support these changes will sing another tune as soon as the grandfathered in laws are abrogated............they might also start signing another tune if they "crack down" on all of the expats who are renting condos for profit without work permits (probably many of these same people are supporting the new rule change with comments like "just follow the law." Thailand-Titanic loses again...........it gains nothing by this. It is just another negative message to tourists and expats.

[brahmburgers]

Wow...good idea. Get rid of all the illegal native English teachers who make up the majority of teachers in the public schools and lower end privates, and replace them with legal ESL teachers from Eastern Europe and the Philippines etc., (given that native speakers with proper degrees will seek higher paying jobs) whom hold degrees which may better be used as toilet paper. Before you know it, Thai English speakers will have a heinz 57 accent and a conglomerate vocabulary which stretches halfway around the world. This is not a bitter reply from an illegal worker by the way. But, at times I think the logic (?) in this country is stranger than fiction.

True, a lot of English teachers are farang who can't speak English well and/or have accents thicker than snot. Of course, the people hiring (at U's and colleges) can't tell, as they think all farang with certificates are fluent. Many of the Thai nationals teaching English cover their clumsiness with the language by making tests/homework using ridiculously archaic convolutions of English that would be ludicrous were it not part of requirements. Bottom line: most Thai educational institutions are ripping off students by not providing enough decent English teachers. By tightening visa requirements, they're exacerbating the problem.

Personally I think that it would be a good idea to start screening people who are still in the country to check what they are doing, is their visa and/or work permit in place and where their funds are coming from.

Ok, so what should the screening parameters? Scrutinize your computer, find some photos of Thai U students with too-tight shirts. Boom, you get a police escort to the airport and forced to buy a one-way ticket home, while stamping your passport 'personna non grata.'

[traderjm]

I doubt it had 2 lawyers on it, i would have kept the LTD if i could have worked in it. I closed it because i could not, went to the labour department they also said have to have 5 Thais. For me that was impossible because the work that needed to be done was in Dutch.. Thais don't speak Dutch.

I can only speak from my personal experience, but I have owned a LTD here in Thailand for the last three years and up until three months ago only employed 3 Thais and have NEVER had an issue with getting a work permit. So I know it ISN'T five is it possible it's based on the industry one works in??

[mahjongguy]

According to documentary 298 British tourists are murdered in TL every year.

That is the number of British who *die* here every year, mostly from old age, some from accidents.

[thykeeper]

I think the change maybe a good thing because there are many legal ways to stay without using a tourist visa. I do not think the new rules will affect any true tourists.

I have plenty of money, I dont need to work.

I am young, I stay in hotels and eat out every day all year

helping Thailands declining tourism industry.

Explain to me how to stay here for 2years.

I dont want to work, I dont want to marry some thai citizen,

I dont want to study.

I want to relax by the hotel pool by myself with my laptop,

eat out and keep enjoying my tourist life, I am happy.

Is my lifstyle forbidden in Thailand?

People keep saying get the proper visa...

What proper visa??????

Yes! Where's this guy's visa?! Poor guys like this are being judged by the lowest common denominator once again. Thailand's POOR thy don't they want these guys??

[ham]

these crackdowns seem to repost themselves every 6 months or so. maybe its just a bug in the BBS software?

yep "the matrix" works

[3zie]

Personally I fail to see the problem. If someone is a genuine tourist they ahve nothing to fear. On the other hand if they are working on tourist visas tnen they only have themselves to blame.

Try pulling the same stunt in the EU, the US or Australia. Anyone caught doing that would be tossed out immediately and possibly be banned from the country for ever. It seems to me that despite all the crackdowns Thailand is still very generous at this stage and lots of people are abusing the system.

Incidentally an Australian I work with recently went to Canada on a tourist visa and she was interrogated for three whole hours. She thinks it may because she was born in Armenia. Who knows but it seems Thailand won't be the only country to interrogate some tourists.

Totally agree with this

[grantbkk]

Mr. Beach, While Thailand must feel honored that you exist solely to "...helping Thailand's declining tourist industry", maybe you should spread the wealth. Given your altruistic nature there are many other places in the world who want, no need, your poolside Dollars and would welcome you into their restaurants to, "eat our and keep enjoying my tourist life...". Your life is devoted to "....relax by the hotel pool, by myself, with my laptop...", can be had in country's with pools all over the world.

Cheers!

[pepi2005]

No one would have to "violate" their conditions if getting a work permit wouldn't be that complicated and take as tremendously long.

Other -neighboring- countries which are meanwhile clearly outranking Thailand in terms of investment climate and dynamic of development according to a recent study, make it much easier for foreigners to get a work permit as long as they bring certain qualifications and the required paperwork.

In Thailand, working self-employed is virtually impossible, you have to employ 4 skill-less Thais, to set up a whole company, open a bureau or office even if you don't need one and the whole process including getting the work permit costs almost 100,000 Baht when done by an agent (doing it alone will bring you close to suicide as there are no clear guidelines for specific jobs over which papers are required, so it's always up to the bureaucrat working on your papers and his ...eeh... financial situation and mood) and it takes MANY MONTHS. I am waiting 4 months now since I submitted the first forms and still don't have my work permit.

It's ridiculous, and it's frustrating and I would advise anyone who considers working in SE-Asia to go to Malaysia, Singapore or Vietnam. Even Cambodia has a better investment climate today than Thailand.

[Beachresort]

Mr. Beach, While Thailand must feel honored that you exist solely to "...helping Thailand's declining tourist industry", maybe you should spread the wealth. Given your altruistic nature there are many other places in the world who want, no need, your poolside Dollars and would welcome you into their restaurants to, "eat our and keep enjoying my tourist life...". Your life is devoted to "....relax by the hotel pool, by myself, with my laptop...", can be had in country's with pools all over the world.

Cheers!

So you are saying you dont want people like me in Thailand,

you want me to leave Thailand?

I can fly to some other tourist destination, no problem.

I just dont understand the attitude.

[JosephA]

Thykeeper: has a point. There is nothing wrong with a longstaying "tourist" wanting to spend $10,000 ~B340,000 if he/she chooses! Don't forget many other issues to the system as raise by other members (though priorities may differ) under the same Immigration Law. IF the age after 50yrs retirement, and/or 800,000 A/C be slightly altered, still there will be someone still affected by the amendment! People individuality and needs are all different so the law has to suit the majority.

JR Texas: has a point also. Though money is not the only benefector of the law, there are community, social benefits ie., an optismisation must be struck. You have written quite a logic and American (not being sacastic na krub) are more logical than Asians in general, so you can understand that "Tourist Visa" is as intended despite the economical benefits. (Logic implies business and Entrepreneural activities on the Thai Economy should be essatablished through their channels)

CHEERS, hope you find peace, have a good time, and/or move to the places you find more happiness. Not being sacastic since you own your life, you can choose to satisfy your needs and your pocket, Thailand has its own as well.

This is the bottom line: you can't compare USA and developed countries with Thailand, we don't need/can't support more people in our economies. Some people have $10,000 and want to stay in Thailand for a year or over because that's how they choose to spend their money. Not working, just spending money. Doesn't Thailand need this? Maybe the governments too proud to admit it's poor and needs foreign investment?

Why all the talk about "just follow the law"? What law can they follow? Where's their visa???

Now people with this plan REALLY risk being rejected and should consider choosing another country. My only regret is wasting the time to learn to read and write Thai which is useless outside the country. Bad news this is....

Good post..........yet another example of xenophobia rising in Thailand........the people who are making these rules are stupid beyond imagination. The people who support these changes will sing another tune as soon as the grandfathered in laws are abrogated............they might also start signing another tune if they "crack down" on all of the expats who are renting condos for profit without work permits (probably many of these same people are supporting the new rule change with comments like "just follow the law." Thailand-Titanic loses again...........it gains nothing by this. It is just another negative message to tourists and expats.

[JR Texas]

No one would have to "violate" their conditions if getting a work permit wouldn't be that complicated and take as tremendously long.

Other -neighboring- countries which are meanwhile clearly outranking Thailand in terms of investment climate and dynamic of development according to a recent study, make it much easier for foreigners to get a work permit as long as they bring certain qualifications and the required paperwork.

In Thailand, working self-employed is virtually impossible, you have to employ 4 skill-less Thais, to set up a whole company, open a bureau or office even if you don't need one and the whole process including getting the work permit costs almost 100,000 Baht when done by an agent (doing it alone will bring you close to suicide as there are no clear guidelines for specific jobs over which papers are required, so it's always up to the bureaucrat working on your papers and his ...eeh... financial situation and mood) and it takes MANY MONTHS. I am waiting 4 months now since I submitted the first forms and still don't have my work permit.

It's ridiculous, and it's frustrating and I would advise anyone who considers working in SE-Asia to go to Malaysia, Singapore or Vietnam. Even Cambodia has a better investment climate today than Thailand.

They are now, in effect, holding up a WE DON'T WANT YOU poster for all those to see. You are right about these rules........the problem is that they create problems out of non problems by making things too difficult and not presenting more viable options.

An example is creating a new category called "perpetual tourists." In Cambodia and the Philippines they are called tourists.......they are not thought of in negative terms.......there is no legal action to be taken against them.

I would never tell anyone to work, invest or retire in Thailand when there are other places that are better now.

Let Thailand-Titanic sink......who cares? They apparently don't care.

[lopburi3]

We, too, believed I could piggy-back on my husband's retirement visa. Denied at CM immigration - they told us to go to BKK. So we made a special trip there - BKK immigration basically laughed in our faces. It seems like a classic case of the right hand not knowing...

Is your husband on a visa or a one year extension of stay for retirement? If on one year extension of stay and you have legal marrriage paperwork you can obtain a non immigrant O visa using his passport stamp as proof and then obtain a one year dependent extension of stay to match his.

There was a short period several years ago when this was not being allowed because of wording in the Immigration act not specifically allowing this provision for retirement. That was changed from reports posted here and those on retirement allowed to have dependent wife again.

[Sept]

Wrong. You can arrive in Thailand with any visa or even without a visa, look for work, get signed up for a job and apply for a work permit. It is to receive the work permit, once it has been approved, that you need a non-immigrant visa.

--

Maestro

That's incorrect : you need a non-B to apply for work permit.

Legally you're not even allowed to look for a job while on a tourist visa, although that's hardly enforceable.

Wrong. Maestro is correct.

Care to provide a source for your assertion that one can apply for a work permit while on a tourist visa? Your own pages are stating the (obvious) opposite.

Unless you can provide a decent source showing that one can apply for work permit while on a tourist visa, why don't you quit confusing your readers with erroneous bits of information?

http://www.thaivisa.com/288.0.html :

How to get a Thai work permit

First, you must have a Non-Immigrant visa to apply for a work permit.

[animatic]

Part of this is trying to say looking for a job while on a tourist visa is illegal.

Which might or might not be true, but is just an illogical thing.

Most all people offered a job here from abroad are either.

a ) transfered by a multi-national.

b ) someone who made a connection here and accepted the job.

Now one of the things about not taking jobs from Thais is not the 'lowly job thing',

that is the Burmese Lao Cambo grouping of farangs. Another issue.

For the educated westerner, we are 'theoretically' to be teaching our jobs to Thais,

and raising their levels of abilities in the practical sense, but when we are successful,

they suddenly get bent because a Thai hasn't ALSO been AS successful too...

Part of this dichotomy IS the cultural divide, they want technical knowledge, but don't want

ANY of the cultural elements that actual are quite a part of the success story.

So periodically they try and weed out those not perfectly on the letter of the law,

literally down to aberrant LETTERS in your work permits etc.

The nail sticking up gets hammered down...

This of course doesn't make a Thai do a better job, just removes a more successful competitor.

Another element is the dislike of Farang bar owners.

Not the bigger operations, but beer swilling expat joints, sending bloto punters

out to be obnoxious after closing, and especially girlie bar owners,

essentially low end pimps selling booze and bar fines to keep their work permits and bar tab afloat.

It can be expected that this does not please conservative Thai's.

Who would prefer if vice must exist, it be profited on by their country men,

not outside interlopers. So various hassles are devised so that Thais and Thailand,

can be made to share those profits as often as possible. Fees, fines, ever changing regulations,

and threats of expulsion laced with demands for tea money to make it go away.

So the changing visa rules is away to catch more unawares farangs and even the playing field some more.

[Mario2008]

Care to provide a source for your assertion that one can apply for a work permit while on a tourist visa? Your own pages are stating the (obvious) opposite.

Unless you can provide a decent source showing that one can apply for work permit while on a tourist visa, why don't you quit confusing your readers with erroneous bits of information?

http://www.thaivisa.com/288.0.html :

How to get a Thai work permit

First, you must have a Non-Immigrant visa to apply for a work permit.

The information on our main page is incorrect, we are in the process of an overhaul.

A simple search of our forum will show you you can apply for a work permit on a tourist visa or visa exempt entry. It happens all the time. As I said earlier, you wont get a work permit untill you have a non-immigrant visa. This you get on show of the WP3 receipt, which shows an embassy that you will get your WP once they issue the non-immigrant visa.

[PoorSucker]

i'm glad to have a three years non-B!

A 3 Year Visa??? Do you mind sharing some info's? - like: where to apply, what paperwork is required, how much it costs and how long does it take?

Thank you...

Used to be one for business people (3 year non-.

The 1 year multiple non-B was for business and work.

The 3 year multiple non-B was for business (not allowed to work)

This is gone now.

[cyb]

First, you must have a Non-Immigrant visa to apply for a work permit.

Just to make something clear as per a previous post, But not to look for work.

All you require on that is a tourist visa, Looking for work is not regarded as as work.

Althought it may be contrued as hard work.

[grantbkk]

don't they want these guys??

Mr. Beach, While Thailand must feel honored that you exist solely to "...helping Thailand's declining tourist industry", maybe you should spread the wealth. Given your altruistic nature there are many other places in the world who want, no need, your poolside Dollars and would welcome you into their restaurants to, "eat our and keep enjoying my tourist life...". Your life is devoted to "....relax by the hotel pool, by myself, with my laptop...", can be had in country's with pools all over the world.

Cheers!

So you are saying you dont want people like me in Thailand,

you want me to leave Thailand?

I can fly to some other tourist destination, no problem.

I just dont understand the attitude.

I actually don't care anymore who comes and goes but most of us have to comply with the rule of the day. Tens of thousands of Chinese and other non-farang are in country who totally abuse the system. The crazy immigration system has to be complied with and a narrow band of people will be excluded with the new rule. You don't seem to be tethered to Thailand and could match your under 50, no work, plenty of money, hanging out by the swimming pool with Wi-Fi access in many other countries around the globe. It might be fun to compile a list for those of us who may be eventually kicked out of here when another immigration brain fart occurs.

At the other end of the spectrum is the long term overstayer. Those folks who overstay for a month or ten years plus. If you stay out of trouble and don't leave the country you can stay for as long as you wish. This is predicated on maintaining a low profile at the pool and not misusing your bandwidth privileges. You don't want to draw attention to yourself.

[PoorSucker]

To get this straight, if I want to stay on a legit visa up to one year, what is my option?

I don`t work, am not married, and under 50. However I dont want to show a monthly income.

And for those who compare me with a bum or loser, you have no clue. I never get into trouble, spend my own money, and respect the laws here as well as any. I should have the same right to be here as you.

I can apply for a multiple non O visa at Kuala Lumpur, right? And get max. 15 months, with borderruns every 90 days?

What are their demands at KL, how much money do I need to show in my thai bank? 100.000 bath?

That should do it? Just show them my thai bankbook? And the other usual papers of course?

Would a bank statement from my home country do it?

Thanks for answering.

This long thread confuses me, and I really appreciate an answer.

Thanks people

Not in KL.

Closest for you would be Perth.

[leonn]

People keep saying get the proper visa...

What proper visa??????

Non Immigrant O Visa Multi Entry.

Some Consulates in Europe and a couple in Australia will issue with the reason of Visiting Friends.

*we are already in thailand now ;do we have to go back to europe for asking non immigrant 0 visa to thai consolate in there??

or can we get it non 0 visa in asia somewhere !! malaysia ? singapore?

what documents do we need exactly for non immigrant 0 visa ?

we have tourist visa already !!! how change tourist visa to non immg. 0 visa ??

thx

[animatic]

You can receive a job offer and fill out all aplications for a Non Im B with a tourist visa,

and then go abroad, to a consulate and apply for the Non im. B and return on that non im. B.

That done the work permit is done quickly. Getting the Non iM B is the biggest hoop jump.

Well that and finding a company willing to sponsor you through the paperwork process.

You can also create your own company while still on a tourtist visa, I believe,

and that can give you a work permit.

If you have been on 2 or is it 3 consecutive, one year Non-Im B without break,

you can apply for a 3 years Non Im B visa. in a limited number of locations.

I have one.

[Sept]

A simple search of our forum will show you you can apply for a work permit on a tourist visa or visa exempt entry. It happens all the time. As I said earlier, you wont get a work permit untill you have a non-immigrant visa. This you get on show of the WP3 receipt, which shows an embassy that you will get your WP once they issue the non-immigrant visa.

"A simple search on our forum" can hardly be called a decent source. I conducted a simple search on our forum, and a couple others on Google, but couldn't find anything authoritative.

Can you provide a single direct link in support of your assertion?

[CrossBones]

Bring back the Elite Cards.

Stuff the golf clubs and fancy limos.... id pay 500K for a right to have 5 yr tourists visas whenever I need.

That would be all profit for the government no need to fork out for fancy frills and benefits.

How about a system where you pay a guarantee to the Thai government, in exchange they give you the right to stay. If you are in any trouble with the law or hospitalized or get into trouble or need to be deported they have money to cover it. That would also weed out the botton x% of foreigners here who have absolutely nothing and live hand to mouth and have potential to get involved in crime or not pay their debts etc. I for one think there are some people in trouble over here, many are mentally ill, and would be much better off in their own countries trying to sort out their problems instead of running away from them.

To save Thailand's image, instead of cracking down on everyone why not just try to close down all the GoGo Bars and unruly behaviour. Afterall the 2 week holiday makers probably behave worse that the long stay. It doesnt make sense that longer stayers are more likely to get into trouble apart from the fact that they are here longer. Crackdown on all the foreigners that come here and misbehave, open brothels, make illegal businesses with bars and real estate etc but no need to kick out everyone. THE CRIMINALS WILL BE THE LAST TO LEAVE. THAT IS REALLY THE TRUTH. It will be the good farangs that leave since they feel they have done nothing wrong and feel more welcome elsewhere.

I vote for a crackdown on crackdowns and lets make Thailand the hub of hubs in the region (cambodia, Laos, Burma)

Edited September 12, 2009 by CrossBones

[CrossBones]

Nigerians get one year tourist visas and easy Thai residency.... is this true can anyone confirm?

[NanLaew]

^ That's a wind up. Don't pay any heed.

[moskito]

....... i seriously doubt the same could be said about the illegal falang that are working in thailand. Can anyone give an example where a falang is working for less than a thai doing the same job ?

1.

The Farang which is here on a tourist visa behind the bar which he bought for his girlfriend.........

2.

The Farang who opened a Restaurant in his gf name and WORK there, serve his "friends" cook

some Farang food behind in the kitchen, cleaning dishes behind in the kitchen......ALL without a workpermit

and all on a tourist visa or non immigrant O Visa.....do we want the same in our western countries without

any hassle for these people? Btw, HE can keep his prices low as he save to pay a Thai or two for this job

he steels from them.....and if they can cook farang food is another thing...........

dont belive things happend this way? come to Phuket.

[guava]

Nigerians get one year tourist visas and easy Thai residency.... is this true can anyone confirm?

That's at the extremely unlikely end of extremely unlikely. Not sure where that came from, but detecting an element of sarcasm perhaps.