Crackdown On Back-to-back Tourist Visa Applications

[NanLaew]

So you are saying you dont want people like me in Thailand,

you want me to leave Thailand?

I can fly to some other tourist destination, no problem.

I just dont understand the attitude.

If I were in your shoes, I would not let the vagaries of Thai Immigration Law rent too much space in my head. I certainly wouldn't be taking it so personally as you profess to having no plans to become nothing more than a up-market Tourist. Just use your poolside websurfing time diligently and seek out a better location. I mean, if you have been following this thread (and I have no doubt that you have read each and every post), you can easily see that your present host is fickle.

I think that once you take a 30 or 60 day break from LOS, you will realise that Thailand is definitely NOT all that.

[LindsayBKK]

New visa rules regarding tourist visas has prompted me to change to a non immi 'o' for vientiane.

I am a 44yr Gay male with Thai partner. I have normally used Tourist visas as I am not working and I am supported by my partner.

Partner being a doctor is another reason I don't like giving information to embassies as the medical industry is not gay friendly!!

Will be going to Vientiane Monday and was going to try to get a double tourist but rule changes will see me being rejected so not now.

I was thinking for my partner to do a support letter for a non immi 'o' but not sure if that they only are for married couples?

I know I should have booked to go Perth as they have their 'visiting partners/friends' non immi 'o'e which I may do if I have any trouble getting an "O" Vientiane.

The last 3x30 entries I have been without visas so if I have to get back from Vientiane I am not sure how many days I would have left.

I have done a couple of non-immi '0' in the past for 'investment' purposes, letter from partner saying will buy condo together etc.

We, I should say he bought a condo sukhumvit 1 (now for sale by the way) but as there is no investment visa now that option is out.

Should I just cancel trip to Vientiane and go direct to Perth? I am thinking yes.

I have been back to Perth 3 times and it seems to be the most 'gay friendly' for my situation.

Any advice will be helpful.

[Munted]

I spent 2 years living in thailand and didn't work illegally, i just like the place and enjoy the beach and the food.

Shame it's hard and hard to work for 1 year in Australia and then spend all the money in Thailand over 2 years.

True, but the vast majority I ever met during my border crossings were teachers. I got out three years ago when immigration started raiding schools. I'm now nearing the completion of a degree which gives me a good chance to be legal (if I choose to go back in). This would be good for me & for any students I should teach. At the very least the students might then get a pedagogically focused lesson rather than a well-meaning but aimless performance of dubious value.

[Felt 35]

Why not set straight rules instead of this double tongue cracks from Immigration now and then.

Start. 1. January 2010. Information in media abroad and of course to all Thai Embassies and Foreign Embassies here and abroad etc. New regulations for all kind of visas to Thailand.

Tourist visa max 30 days in a 180 period. Return ticket have to be documented Application have to be done abroad at Thai Embassy/ Consulate where the applicant have permanent residency.

Work permit will be issued with a visa following the length of the work assignment. Work permit only issued to they who have a guarantee from a Thai employer and application have to be done at the embassy/consulate where they reside.

Non immigrant visa O -A skipped and also extension of stay.

So to…a new visa and taxation system for spouses and retires.

Spouses of Thai Nationals and retires(no age limit for retires), included parents to children where one parent are or was Thai national can be issued (for the first 5 years) a one year visa against proof of a secure (secure means proof from their respective tax offices where they now have permanent residency) monthly income in line with the existing criteria minimum 40K monthly. Taxation will follow normal income tax in Thailand.

After 5 years the spouse can be issued permanent residency as long as the above criteria still can be proved. Citizen ship can be issued after 10 years permanent residency in the Kingdom.

Everyone who now live here will be grandfathered regarding their visa status, but would have to prove a income as above from 1. January 2010. Included they who are employed. Money in bank as statement for visa will be skipped, but they who have used that option the last 10 years + will be grandfathered but the amount have to be in the bank year around. (For the below tax purpose)

Monthly minimum wage criteria will be regulated every 3 year.

After 10 years permanent residency spouses of Thai nationals and retires can buy/own 1 rai of land but only for own residence.

[jdk]

Crackdown on back-to-back Tourist visa applications

Extended screening of visa applicants

Please be informed that this is considered as concealment of real purpose of visiting Thailand

of course.

everybody conceals what they are doing here

[hanssna]

Very well said guys.. I've had a Non B visum since 7 years, and never cost me any problem. Before this I did my best to stay on tourist visa, and 30 days ( now 15 day ) visa runs, and this is still possible. If you want to work here, get your papers in order ! I welcome this rule, since what we get is too much competition from illegal workers, trying to do my job cheaper for just a year, and then move on... The double entry tourist visa provides enough time for most of us to find a job, if not; set yourself up in a company ( limited partnership ) and get your papers straight.

[beano2274]

I can see a lot of Teachers on the next flight home, or even a lot staying on overstay, hoping not to get caught.

The other laughable thing I see is this "Non Imm O" to visit friends valid for a year, hey if you are just visiting friends then a visit is not gonna last a year.

[lopburi3]

New visa rules regarding tourist visas has prompted me to change to a non immi 'o' for vientiane.

I am a 44yr Gay male with Thai partner. I have normally used Tourist visas as I am not working and I am supported by my partner.

((cut))

Should I just cancel trip to Vientiane and go direct to Perth? I am thinking yes.

I have been back to Perth 3 times and it seems to be the most 'gay friendly' for my situation.

Any advice will be helpful.

I would say a trip to Perth would be best for all concerned. Without active participation of partner do not believe any chance in Vientiane and even with it would be unusual. A normal requirement is a copy of marriage certificate.

[Daewoo]

I don't usually reply to these topics, as they aren't relevant to me... I spend 1 month a year in Thailand, and am eligible for more as I have a legitimate claim as a business man under an agreement between the Australian and Thai Government...

My point is this... 7 years ago, I worked for Telstra... The incumbent Telecommunications company in Australia, think BT, France Telecom, or Bell for other nations...

We had up to 80 Australian Engineers working in Thailand, each earning 400,000THB a month plus expenses, on tourist visas... doing jobs that the company I now work for uses Thai's to do in Australia... working for them were more qualified Thai engineers, earning 20,000THB if they were lucky... of the 400,000 Baht, much of it went into their Australian bank accounts, not spent in Thailand... so a lot of the money was being exported...

To say that will only impact on unqualified english teachers is just false... there are a lot of farrangs in Thailand, taking jobs that could be easily filled by Thais... While 'tourist income' is a great source of foreign cash... economics is not so simple... What drives an economy, the number of times Baht changes hands, and every body gets paid, it doesn't HAVE to come from overseas... Australia has had a shithouse balance of trade for decades, and our economy is quite strong...

So here in Australia, if you want to come as a backpacker, under 30, there are certain jobs you can do to allow you to earn money and stay (and spend) longer, when the ecconomy was booming and there were lots of shitty jobs that locals wouldn't do for the money, many businesses recruited overseas (harder now due to GFC), if it is a skilled job and the business can not fill the position locally, they can do that too (again harder now under GFC)... but if you are over 30 and just decide that you want to live in Australia indefinately, join the queue and follow proper process... doesn't seem unreasonable to me...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[cup-O-coffee]

I am not convinced that this is simply not another campaign to ease some requirement, or make some show to satisfy a quota or agenda. The document is vague and ambiguous and does not clearly define what someone's "intentions" might be. Nor does it clearly state the maximum limits for when a tourist candidate comes under scrutiny of dubious "intentions", regardless of what people may suspect. Innocent until proven guilty still stands as far as I know.

A) "Should the case be found that the applicant's real intention were concealed, the application will be rejected."

"…the intention of applicants to repeatedly depart and re-enter Thailand via tourist visa…is considered as concealment of real purpose of visiting Thailand."

What is the definition of an acceptable "intention" that allows one another visa stamp –vs- an unacceptable "intention" that qualifies as a rejection?

This OP Article is a Non-Issue and quite obtuse for the following reasons:

1.When traveling alone, I have never ever been questioned by any Thai official as to what my "intentions" are.

2.When traveling with a tour group, I am ignored much as cattle are ignored by townsfolk when the cowboys herd them down Main Street. I have never been questioned or even given a passing glance when I am with a group and herded through the check points en mass.

3. Tourists will never be interrogated on the scale this document suggests simply because most Thai border officials do not know how to speak English, let alone, Russian, German, Dutch, Japanese, etc. They simply do not want the hassle and the loss of face they will suffer when they invariably demonstrate how ignorant they are upon beginning to question someone seeking a T-visa; this compounded further by the simple fact that…

4. Thailand's data base can only count how many times a person enters Thailand and repeatedly re-enters Thailand. It can only rely upon additional data from law enforcement computers of other countries, etc. etc. Thailand's database is not god-like, and the individuals who enter data into that database are, at best, incompetent when it comes to being able to determine the intentions of someone they have never met, nor would even understand that person's native language. THAT IS IT! There is no computer that I know of that can read minds (or intentions) and discriminate against people in this matter. That is a slippery slope that NO immigration officer wants to tackle on a daily basis; let alone even have any sort of conversation with the face on the other side of the passport window.

5. There is not enough manpower to undertake this task, nor the availability of unemployment funds to pay the thousands of travel agency workers and minivan drivers who will be out of a job if this theory actually becomes reality.

So, again… this is a non-issue.

Until an actual renewal limit is set and enforced in even the most remote place, simply use a travel agency and your worries will go away. And incidentally, maybe that is the subversive intention here; to target people going it alone, and get them corralled into visa run tour groups.

Edited September 12, 2009 by PROGRESSLandCS

[astral]

My point is this... 7 years ago, I worked for Telstra... The incumbent Telecommunications company in Australia, think BT, France Telecom, or Bell for other nations...

We had up to 80 Australian Engineers working in Thailand, each earning 400,000THB a month plus expenses, on tourist visas... doing jobs that the company I now work for uses Thai's to do in Australia... working for them were more qualified Thai engineers, earning 20,000THB if they were lucky... of the 400,000 Baht, much of it went into their Australian bank accounts, not spent in Thailand... so a lot of the money was being exported...

If that is the case, then Telstra should be ashamed of themselves.

It is just this sort of situation that creates the current problems.

[Daewoo]

My point is this... 7 years ago, I worked for Telstra... The incumbent Telecommunications company in Australia, think BT, France Telecom, or Bell for other nations...

We had up to 80 Australian Engineers working in Thailand, each earning 400,000THB a month plus expenses, on tourist visas... doing jobs that the company I now work for uses Thai's to do in Australia... working for them were more qualified Thai engineers, earning 20,000THB if they were lucky... of the 400,000 Baht, much of it went into their Australian bank accounts, not spent in Thailand... so a lot of the money was being exported...

If that is the case, then Telstra should be ashamed of themselves.

It is just this sort of situation that creates the current problems.

I don't disagree...

altho, at the time, Thailand was an importer of ITC skills, and is now an exporter... All of the opperators were in a race to deploy GSM, and there wasn't the time to train Thai's in the technology first... It will be interesting to see what happens when you finally get 3G rollouts (a year before the other countries start rolling out the next step in technonlogy ... (hopefully I can get some work back in Heaven )...

Telstra wasn't doing it to get around a skills test as such... it was just easier at the time I suppose... but still, there was then and is now a process that needs to be followed to ensure that the outcome is what is best for Thailand...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[PaulnAbbe]

What about people like us who only BRING money to the country every month!!! We get paid a monthly wage from the uk, which is enough for us to survive out here but unfortunately don't have loads of cash just sat in a bank account to keep the thai immigration happy for a non imm visa!!

When speaking to the locals on Koh Chang we hear that the tourism is down alot more than "official" figures. So WHY???

This is the end of the thai trip for us and so on to pastures new. We are sure another country will be willing to take our money.

So thanks to whomever made this decision. You've made alot of innocent people unhappy.

Our tickets are booked!!

[NanLaew]

My point is this... 7 years ago, I worked for Telstra... The incumbent Telecommunications company in Australia, think BT, France Telecom, or Bell for other nations...

We had up to 80 Australian Engineers working in Thailand, each earning 400,000THB a month plus expenses, on tourist visas... doing jobs that the company I now work for uses Thai's to do in Australia... working for them were more qualified Thai engineers, earning 20,000THB if they were lucky... of the 400,000 Baht, much of it went into their Australian bank accounts, not spent in Thailand... so a lot of the money was being exported...

If that is the case, then Telstra should be ashamed of themselves.

It is just this sort of situation that creates the current problems.

Why should Telstra or any other company that benefited from the one-time very lax Thai visa laws be in any way ashamed? Are those currently circumventing the tighter visa restrictions and working illegally ashamed? How about the 'resident tourists'? I doubt it very much. As Thailand embraces the technologies in an effort to elevate it's status and class, it's only logical that the mechanisms that provide the basic protection of the local labour market also be elevated. Getting into debates about the technical abilities and English language prowess of the average Thai graduate is neither here nor there in this dogfight.

In my line of work consulting in Exploration & Production, we used to do one-off jobs in the Gulf of Thailand on a Tourist visa as being on-site from between 3-5 days to 3-5 weeks only once or twice every couple years never was (and still isn't) provided for in the Thai visa system. Now we come in on Non-B visas but very recent activity indicates that the Labour Office 'enforcers' are ramping up their scrutiny, including unannounced visits to business premises. One company is already talking about getting a WP application in the pipeline for even the most transient of visiting consultants as they have no clue as to where the legal versus illegal line will be drawn.

When a legal resident retiree or married farang can technically be arrested for painting his own condo or mowing his own lawn, there's just no point in trying to second-guess Immigration Laws and visa rules is there?

[teddy_bare]

So they once again fail to address the issue of non retirees or those under 50 years old wanting to make Thailand their home or semi permanent residence. They bang the "illegal worker" drum but never try to work out why people may actually work illegally. Cost, pure and simple. Make it relatively painless to go legitimate and you solve the problem.

If you want to stay in Thailand a long time, then just prove you can afford to do so. The Bt65k a month is the only figure which is already in the public domain so use that one. If you have Bt200k in the bank then you get 3 months etc. If you own your own home, then some discount is applied as you do not have to pay rent.

Lets be serious, everyone can fly to a friendly consulate and get a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant "O" visa. The problem is that it costs about Bt60k to Bt100k when you add in all the visa trips every 90 days and the flights etc. Surely an easier way would be to offer some sort of legalisation which cost less.

You dont need to fly back, Just leave thailand for say, Malaysia, PH and post your passport back to a friend/mate in your home country with all the necessary forms. It probably takes 10 days maximum. Nothing illegal about this method. Only illegal if you try to stay in Thailand when you are applying for it.

Trust me, I have done it, absolutely 100% legal

[oMega69]

What about people like us who only BRING money to the country every month!!! We get paid a monthly wage from the uk, which is enough for us to survive out here but unfortunately don't have loads of cash just sat in a bank account to keep the thai immigration happy for a non imm visa!!

When speaking to the locals on Koh Chang we hear that the tourism is down alot more than "official" figures. So WHY???

This is the end of the thai trip for us and so on to pastures new. We are sure another country will be willing to take our money.

So thanks to whomever made this decision. You've made alot of innocent people unhappy.

Our tickets are booked!!

Well . . this crack down is for people that works in Thailand to earn the income to stay here year after year . . ,

For us that get money from over goverments and insurance companies to earn our livings here in Thailand , We just get our paper from our income source

translated to Thai and take them with our application then we apply in Vientiane for 2x Tourist Visa . . " PROBLEM SOLVED "

OR are i missing something ?

[oMega69]

You dont need to fly back, Just leave thailand for say, Malaysia, PH and post your passport back to a friend/mate in your home country with all the necessary forms. It probably takes 10 days maximum. Nothing illegal about this method. Only illegal if you try to stay in Thailand when you are applying for it.

Trust me, I have done it, absolutely 100% legal

Just One problem then !

You have no stamps in the passport that you have been in UK and get the Non-B-O Visa ! . . . becuse u are in etc., PH . . . What is the reaction when u come back to Thailand then ?

[VBF]

Just One problem then !

You have no stamps in the passport that you have been in UK and get the Non-B-O Visa ! . . . becuse u are in etc., PH . . . What is the reaction when u come back to Thailand then ?

THAT would not be a problem IF you are a Brit holding a UK passport. The UK authorities do not stamp UK passports in and out - yet! However the dates would not marry up as you'd officially be in Malaysia, PH when your passport was in UK having a visa added! IF the Thai immigration people were that eagle-eyed, they may spot it. (Malaysia, PH would certainly stamp you in and out!)

However, IMO the REALLY big problem might be that during the time that you were in Malaysia, PH, your passport would be winging its way around the world. I would feel really uncomfortable being in a foreign country and not having my passport with me. What happens if there's an incident / accident and the local authorities want to see your ID? Sounds a little scary....... and I believe illegal as well.

[asean]

The sky is falling, it's the end of the world as we know it and I'm packing my bags and on the next plane to a civilised country.

(Not really, just wanted to be the first to say that on this thread.)

Changian, that is the funniest most intelligent comment i have ever read on this forum. I am actually laughing out loud.

Thanks for cheering me up

[Wanid]

You can receive a job offer and fill out all aplications for a Non Im B with a tourist visa,

and then go abroad, to a consulate and apply for the Non im. B and return on that non im. B.

That done the work permit is done quickly. Getting the Non iM B is the biggest hoop jump.

Well that and finding a company willing to sponsor you through the paperwork process.

You can also create your own company while still on a tourtist visa, I believe,

and that can give you a work permit.

If you have been on 2 or is it 3 consecutive, one year Non-Im B without break,

you can apply for a 3 years Non Im B visa. in a limited number of locations.

I have one.

I am confused..Poor Sucker quotes: 3 year NON B (but not allowed to work>what does not make sense)) and states...this is gone now!

Help me out here please ....is it or is it not possible to get it now? If so, is there extra paperwork(besides the normal one) needed, how much does is cost, do they issue it right away (like the 1 year one) or is there a waiting period? and last bust not least...what/where are the limited locations???

I would realy appreciate the information. Thank you very much Mike

[Hawkman]

It will be hard for a lot of farang teachers that's for sure.

And before all the expats that are 'anti-teachers' post on here moaning that they are ILLEGAL and not respecting the law, one reminder - what about all the expats on proper visas at the gogo bars paying for girls? ...... pot, kettle, black! I do not understand why so many get wound up by the tourist visa teachers!!!!

What they should do, is drop the degree requirement, ask for some form of higher education(diploma), a teaching certificate, a proper interview, police background check possibly ( as the perverts are more of a concern than someone without a degree) and do some sort of teaching test for the school to evaluate. This way, the schools can see if they are getting a good teacher or not and then apply for the proper visa and WP.

This way, the good teachers will be able to LEGALLY work here on the correct paperwork. Problem solved for everyone!!!! This way the market will open more so the schools will have more teachers to choose from, thus only choosing the good ones and the teachers will be legal (thus stopping all the hgh and mighty rich expats on here from moaning).

And before someone barks back, a DEGREE in any field does not suddenly make you a better teacher than a non-degreed teacher (bar having an English or teaching degree).

[Pattaya46]

You dont need to fly back, Just leave Thailand for say, Malaysia, PH and post your passport back to a friend/mate in your home country with all the necessary forms. It probably takes 10 days maximum. Nothing illegal about this method. Only illegal if you try to stay in Thailand when you are applying for it.

Legal yes, but what about staying in a country 10 days without your Passport ?

Could be a big problem (except for lucky ones who can get 2 passports).

You have no stamps in the passport that you have been in UK and get the Non-B-O Visa ! . . . becuse u are in etc., PH . . .

What is the reaction when u come back to Thailand then ?

No problem.

You don't need to go in UK to get your (Hull) Visa,

you only need to be out of Thailand.

[MacWalen]

What a load of rubbish...(

No it's not, if you are wealthy why not get legit. Trip to friendly consulate (or mail application outside of Thailand) or get ED visa. Available for all and not expensive at all... What is one year ED now, 30k for the school and some for the visa ?

The fees vary, with Walen it is 27,900 Baht for 14 months, judge for yourself if expensive or not. We have 1,200 students and we take good care of our customers in our 4 centers, 2 in Bangkok and 1 in Pattaya and 1 in Chiang Mai. It is fully legal way of staying long term in Thailand and also benefiting yourself by learning the language.

Walen School - Visa problems? Think Walen

www.thaiwalen.com

[Maestro]

"A simple search on our forum" can hardly be called a decent source. I conducted a simple search on our forum, and a couple others on Google, but couldn't find anything authoritative.

Can you provide a single direct link in support of your assertion?

You are asking for an official rule that says that an official rule to have a certain type of visa to apply for a work permit does not exist. I think you should stop being silly.

There is a law or ministerial regulation giving details of the requirements for the application for a work permit. Rather than asking here for proof that something does not exist, why don’t you go and read those official rules and if you find that they ask for a non-immigrant visa to apply for a work permit, quote the source and give a link. Thank you very much.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

Nigerians get one year tourist visas and easy Thai residency.... is this true can anyone confirm?

I have never heard or read about this. What gave you this idea?

--

Maestro

[moskito]

I can see a lot of Teachers on the next flight home, or even a lot staying on overstay, hoping not to get caught.

The other laughable thing I see is this "Non Imm O" to visit friends valid for a year, hey if you are just visiting friends then a visit is not gonna last a year.

wow, you are one clever guy. Non Immi O is also for people living here, are married to a Thai National but dont have the 400,000.-B in the bank anymore.

Not everybody trusts banks, specially with that intrest rate and that secured currency the ThaiBaht is

[bunuel]

Glad to see that the government is finally preventing deluded farangs from being exploited by the sub-prime evil Thai educational system( well, pre-Enlightenment at best) with its nonsensical dress codes and tyrannical administrators!

And heartening to see the government is cracking down on these real threats to Thai culture rather than worry about

all those unfortunate Burmese and Cambodians who make an invaluable ( but generally overlooked!)contribution building the buildings and manning the massage parlors around the country.Can somebody spell jingoistic double-standard??

finally ! was about time. i guess in your "civilized" country you welcome illegal workers with open arms...

[beano2274]

I can see a lot of Teachers on the next flight home, or even a lot staying on overstay, hoping not to get caught.

The other laughable thing I see is this "Non Imm O" to visit friends valid for a year, hey if you are just visiting friends then a visit is not gonna last a year.

wow, you are one clever guy. Non Immi O is also for people living here, are married to a Thai National but dont have the 400,000.-B in the bank anymore.

Not everybody trusts banks, specially with that intrest rate and that secured currency the ThaiBaht is

then you are visiting your spouse, and not friends.

There is a way to get a Non Immigrant O visa without the money in the bank, just showing income to your Embassy.

[koheesti]

Its that 0.10% who think that Thailand is some backword country that should be happy and gratefull that they spend their time here to develop the country. because in their view 99% of Thai are idiots and illiterates. And the women are just ............That they are not qualified as a teacher , or illegaly employed is of no importance. I seriously think that they not yet realize that the Colonial era is over.

When was Thailand ever colonized?

[loong]

....... i seriously doubt the same could be said about the illegal falang that are working in thailand. Can anyone give an example where a falang is working for less than a thai doing the same job ?

1.

The Farang which is here on a tourist visa behind the bar which he bought for his girlfriend.........

2.

The Farang who opened a Restaurant in his gf name and WORK there, serve his "friends" cook

some Farang food behind in the kitchen, cleaning dishes behind in the kitchen......ALL without a workpermit

and all on a tourist visa or non immigrant O Visa.....do we want the same in our western countries without

any hassle for these people? Btw, HE can keep his prices low as he save to pay a Thai or two for this job

he steels from them.....and if they can cook farang food is another thing...........

dont belive things happend this way? come to Phuket.

"ALL without a workpermit

and all on a tourist visa or non immigrant O Visa..."

Thankyou - you obviously agree with my earlier post.

Why assume that people working illegally are here with tourist visas?

They are just as likely to have non imm o's or extensions.

It would be much more sensible to check the papers of people who are working instead of forcing the illegals to simply get a different visa.

Edited September 12, 2009 by loong