Getting Ripped By Ais

[benchmark]

I use an iphone with a post paid AIS connection and this number I had for over 8 years. I used it as a pre-paid 1-2 call first and later changed the number to post paid. Recently I bought an Apple iphone and I also have a GPRS package for 30 hours p/m. In last couple of months after I bought the iphone I saw a significant increase in my phone bills sometimes even over Baht 8,000/= p/m. I had my doubts about their charges anyway but last month I went to pay my phone bill on 29th October and the AIS shop lady asked me whether I want to clear all my outstanding charges, then I said yes. She charged me something over Baht 2,000/= and yesterday I got a SMS from AIS saying that you have nearly reached your credit limit and you need to pay the outstanding bill for smooth service. I was quite surprised as my credit limit is Baht 6,000/= and I called the AIS call center today. When I asked what is my outstanding call cost she said it has reached Baht 6,000/=. Then I asked her why I am charged so high like this and she said I use a lot of GPRS and that's why. Then I told her that I have a GPRS package of 30 hours and she said it has exceeded that amount because my iphone connects to the internet everytime or something. When the phone connects to the internet it will always show a "E" sign on the top left of the screen but as far as I know I didn't use that much of GPRS. Then I told her if I exceed the 30 hour package do you charge me on the download volume and she said yes. I told her if I exceed my package of 30 hours normally i should get a notification right and she said yes. But i didn't get any notification until my line got suspended.

Are there any consumer protection laws in Thailand for cases like this? Without knowing that I am getting charged for download volume which is very expensive is it correct to charge me like that?

The call center lady says I can negotiate this with AIS, what kind of a statement is that? I have potentially paid may be over Baht 30,000/= as a result of them charging me like this and me not knowing whats going on?

I feel like I am ripped off by AIS.

Anybody had any similar experience please share comments. Thanks.

Edited November 8, 2009 by benchmark

[ttechguy]

This is the most common problem for all iPhone users in Thailand mobile carriers, couple of my friends burned their hands by paying more bills for not noticing that little "E" on the screen.

The work around is to change your network settings in iphone, set APN to multimedia (Not 100% sure if it works, but give a try).

I understand that you use GPRS for only 30 hours, but at the moment I don't see any workaround unless iPhone have another apps.

AIS can't really do anything for this iPhone feature (or glitch), except to inactivate your GPRS service.

But I am sure there is negotiation for this kind of unexpected service,.... and they will insist you to upgrade to 995 THB/Month GPRS package

[benchmark]

This is the most common problem for all iPhone users in Thailand mobile carriers, couple of my friends burned their hands by paying more bills for not noticing that little "E" on the screen.

The work around is to change your network settings in iphone, set APN to multimedia (Not 100% sure if it works, but give a try).

I understand that you use GPRS for only 30 hours, but at the moment I don't see any workaround unless iPhone have another apps.

AIS can't really do anything for this iPhone feature (or glitch), except to inactivate your GPRS service.

But I am sure there is negotiation for this kind of unexpected service,.... and they will insist you to upgrade to 995 THB/Month GPRS package

Excuse me MySiam, thanks for the reply but you sound a bit like you are working for AIS. I mentioned that I had no notification from AIS to notify that my 30 hours GPRS package was over the limit. Is that the way of doing things in AIS? This has probably been going on for months now. I had a similar problem with AIS before for one of my other numbers and I didn't use an Iphone at that time it was just a basic nokia phone and I was charged for the download volume which is very expensive. When I got this number the lady at the AIS shop told me that the rate for GPRS is 1 Baht per minute. In the end I refused to pay for the download volume as I was not again informed about this. I think this is some kind of a "trick" to charge extra money especially from foreign clients. If my package is over the limit I think they should send a sms and inform me before they charge me for download volume which is extremely expensive. If I was charged the normal rate of 1 Baht per minute this is at least reasonable. But this is definitely something very fishy, I am very unhappy and disappointed being what they call a "Serenade" or "VIP" client. I think their VIP treatment is to overcharge clients when their regular package is over the limit without any notification. Furthermore this has been going on for couple of months now. What is the proof that I used the GPRS exceeding my limit or not? They never give a detailed breakdown of GPRS usage in their monthly bills. I have a hunch that something like AIS + Foreigner + Post paid + GPRS = Some kind of a unexplained money making process for AIS.

Are their foreign users of AIS post paid numbers who are happy with their service and billing statements? Specially high volume users like me, is anyone there?

[HDRIDER]

Hi

First i dont work for AIS. the iphone will be on all the time if you dont turn data GPRS location gps off , you should make sure not AIS, they dont use to tell people when you have used your GPRS hours, i am sure you can see it on the phone.

Get a BB unlimited data from AIS cost is 650 a month,,,, no more big bills

Forgot: yes i am happy for unlimited data for 650 a month, mine is on 24/7 very cheap, i had True before, happy i changed to AIS

Edited November 8, 2009 by HDRIDER

[benchmark]

Hi

First i dont work for AIS. the iphone will be on all the time if you dont turn data GPRS location gps off , you should make sure not AIS, they dont use to tell people when you have used your GPRS hours, i am sure you can see it on the phone.

Get a BB unlimited data from AIS cost is 650 a month,,,, no more big bills

Forgot: yes i am happy for unlimited data for 650 a month, mine is on 24/7 very cheap, i had True before, happy i changed to AIS

Thanks for the tip on the BB unlimited. Still I am a bit skeptical with AIS but I am willing to try if you say so. I checked and in my settings GPS was off. I have a bit of a trust issue with AIS. Are there anymore happy postpaid foreign clients out there? Anyway my rating for AIS customer service is very low.

Edited November 8, 2009 by benchmark

[HDRIDER]

HI

Just call them and tell them you have a Black Berry dont say its an iphone

If your location is on you will be charged as well and a few other things like push mail

[ttechguy]

Well.. I am more techie, so I tried to explain the things in iPhone. I don't work for AIS

I have been using AIS for more than 5 years, I never got any problem with their services.

This is kind of mindset that normally people have, if they pay for service, they always think the service provider is wrong. But there are something and constraints that service provider can't help, like the one we are using iphone for US market in Thailand. It's the iPhone things that we should control here. Even I didn't buy any GPRS package I will charged automatically... its the iPhone doing that.. its pulling the packets...

Hope you will enjoy with new BB package

U can now negotiate with customer service that you take the package and they can waive some amount for sure...

[benchmark]

Well.. I am more techie, so I tried to explain the things in iPhone. I don't work for AIS

I have been using AIS for more than 5 years, I never got any problem with their services.

This is kind of mindset that normally people have, if they pay for service, they always think the service provider is wrong. But there are something and constraints that service provider can't help, like the one we are using iphone for US market in Thailand. It's the iPhone things that we should control here. Even I didn't buy any GPRS package I will charged automatically... its the iPhone doing that.. its pulling the packets...

Hope you will enjoy with new BB package

U can now negotiate with customer service that you take the package and they can waive some amount for sure...

Service and a product is different. A product you will see and touch and buy but a service you cant see and touch so its not ethical to charge you for a service you didnt ask for. Furthermore they are charging for download volume and not the usual 1 baht for 1 minute, this is the lack of customer service. They always charge the higher rate even from a VIP client. I havent tried other service providers so may be some others who use them can tell me the difference.

[H2oDunc]

As said already, youre I phone is connecting or connected all the time. AIS WILL NOT TELL YOU when your package is exceeded. Why would they ? When it runs out they charge you 1 baht a mintue, That would cost them a lot of cash. You can check your allowance by calling *139. This will tell you how many minutes you have remaining. You might also want to go onto the unlimited package they do ? OH and I don't work for AIS but have used them for years and have not had any problems. Far better service than I ever recieved from my provider back in the UK! Their call centre staff all speak good English and will resolve any problems quickly.

[benchmark]

As said already, youre I phone is connecting or connected all the time. AIS WILL NOT TELL YOU when your package is exceeded. Why would they ? When it runs out they charge you 1 baht a mintue, That would cost them a lot of cash. You can check your allowance by calling *139. This will tell you how many minutes you have remaining. You might also want to go onto the unlimited package they do ? OH and I don't work for AIS but have used them for years and have not had any problems. Far better service than I ever recieved from my provider back in the UK! Their call centre staff all speak good English and will resolve any problems quickly.

It seems like everyone loves AIS and I am the only one who has a problem with it. I have also used them for over 8 years but the problems started with using GPRS. May be its better to close this topic.

[H2oDunc]

People here are trying to help you! far from people loving AIS it seems you have a problem with them ? some people you just can't help ! Maybe it would be better to close it

[benchmark]

People here are trying to help you! far from people loving AIS it seems you have a problem with them ? some people you just can't help ! Maybe it would be better to close it

I really appreciate if you are genuinely trying to help. Surely there are some guys here who work for AIS (to protect their image I guess) All you guys who love AIS, it seems like I need to have a long talk with the AIS people. The AIS call center lady said to me to go and see the "Serenade" as I am a VIP client. I am in Pattaya so anyone knows what she is talking about? I need to have a personal talk with them.

[spacemunk]

This is a problem with new Iphone users.

If you don't explore the phone properly and know how the gprs/wifi works u get screwed over by the gprs usage.

If you google , you can find all the similiar complaints about this by new Iphone users.

Even with GPRS/WiFi turned off other applications can connect the GPRS/WiFi without you knowing to constantly update.

Read this blogg http://dexxlovestopwn.blogspot.com/2008/03...-of-iphone.html

23,000baht phone bill

[namoo]

unlimited GPRS/EDGE 24/7. 650baht a month. Don't see the problem.

You can actually turn off the EDGE connection if you have a jailbroken phone using something like SBsettings.

Easier just tell them u want the BB plan been using it this way for well over 18months and not 1 big bill. People just don't do their research before they purchase either a) the phone or the ais package that they need.

[benchmark]

unlimited GPRS/EDGE 24/7. 650baht a month. Don't see the problem.

You can actually turn off the EDGE connection if you have a jailbroken phone using something like SBsettings.

Easier just tell them u want the BB plan been using it this way for well over 18months and not 1 big bill. People just don't do their research before they purchase either a) the phone or the ais package that they need.

You have a good point, I like your opinion. Yes, it's important to do your research before buying anything in Thailand. I mean particularly an Iphone + AIS as the service provider. Good advice thanks again.

[welo]

As said already, youre I phone is connecting or connected all the time. AIS WILL NOT TELL YOU when your package is exceeded. Why would they ? When it runs out they charge you 1 baht a mintue, That would cost them a lot of cash. You can check your allowance by calling *139. This will tell you how many minutes you have remaining.

I agree with many things said here, also with customers having to take responsibility for the behaviour of their phone/gadget/toy. BUT the provider should make it easy and possible for the customer to avoid high costs due to device 'errors' or limited technical knowledge.

• Why not send a SMS when the monthly package is finished? I mean it works with your prepaid phone credit, too.
  

• Why not offer a detailed listing of GPRS connections used (maybe on demand) as you can do with telephone numbers? (Admittingly I don't know how the monthly bill looks like, I just rely on the OP's complaint here)?
  

"That would cost them a lot of cash." - Exactly, I am not sure how exactly this statement is meant (irony?), but I'm sure an SMS would cost near to nothing for the provider, so the only thing that costs by not luring customers into buying GPRS connection time at high prices (because those customers who are willingly buying additional time will also do so after receiving the SMS).

This reminds me of 'the old days' where ADSL broadband traffic was not unlimited. Providers would charge you thefty prices on downloads exceeding your monthly limit. However, users would get a 'warning' by email BEFORE the limit is reached, and another one when actually finishing it up. Users could change to a larger package with the beginning of the next month.

Ah yeah, I know this doesn't help the OP at all, just wanted to give some moral support here

welo

Edited November 9, 2009 by welo

[benchmark]

As said already, youre I phone is connecting or connected all the time. AIS WILL NOT TELL YOU when your package is exceeded. Why would they ? When it runs out they charge you 1 baht a mintue, That would cost them a lot of cash. You can check your allowance by calling *139. This will tell you how many minutes you have remaining.

I agree with many things said here, also with customers having to take responsibility for the behaviour of their phone/gadget/toy. BUT the provider should make it easy and possible for the customer to avoid high costs due to device 'errors' or limited technical knowledge.

• Why not send a SMS when the monthly package is finished? I mean it works with your prepaid phone credit, too.
  

• Why not offer a detailed listing of GPRS connections used (maybe on demand) as you can do with telephone numbers? (Admittingly I don't know how the monthly bill looks like, I just rely on the OP's complaint here)?
  

"That would cost them a lot of cash." - Exactly, I am not sure how exactly this statement is meant (irony?), but I'm sure an SMS would cost near to nothing for the provider, so the only thing that costs by not luring customers into buying GPRS connection time at high prices (because those customers who are willingly buying additional time will also do so after receiving the SMS).

This reminds me of 'the old days' where ADSL broadband traffic was not unlimited. Providers would charge you thefty prices on downloads exceeding your monthly limit. However, users would get a 'warning' by email BEFORE the limit is reached, and another one when actually finishing it up. Users could change to a larger package with the beginning of the next month.

Ah yeah, I know this doesn't help the OP at all, just wanted to give some moral support here

welo

Hi Welo,

You just made my day. At least one person who thinks similarly at last! Yes, all what you explained is what we expect from a ethical service provider. I saw in another thread that someone was charged Baht 23,000/= p/m in a similar situation, I am lucky not to be that person. He could have bought another Iphone for that money. I think the subscriber should have a right to know by sms when the package is exceeded. Why they don't do it? simply because it has become a good money making process for this company. Before there was a very friendly lady who called me from AIS saying that she is my "Serenade" assistant who helps me to select the best value for money packages as I am a heavy user. After some time she didn't call me again, perhaps after I bought the iphone. But anyway there is about 3 times difference between charging 1 Baht per minute and charging on download volume. They simply decide that once the package has exceeded they should charge this client on the more expensive rate because he can afford to buy an Iphone and pays high bills every month.

I am very happy to see that there is at least 1 person who can think similarly (with a customer oriented mindset). I simply bow down and salute to you. Thanks and deeply appreciate for sharing your thoughts!

[nikster]

This is the reason all the official carriers for the iPhone offer it with unlimited data plans. It's possible to change the settings so the iPhone doesn't access data unless explicitly told but it's also too easy to reset that again and turn on one thing or another which accesses the web constantly.

I am also annoyed that AIS doesn't send out notice when my GPRS package is finished. My protection against overcharging is that I have a pre-paid account and only fill it up with a few hundred at a time. But still, I've lost 600 Baht once.

Here's things you can do:

- Tell AIS you'll switch to true if they don't take off all GPRS charges

- Switch to True's unlimited 599 baht plan.

- Switch to the AIS Blackberry plan for 650 baht + unlimited internet

In Thailand, there's no consumer protection laws, so if you want to fight AIS on this, just don't pay. They'll let the charges go eventually, it's not worth putting up a huge fight for a few k baht. But you'll lose the number.

[welo]

Welcome to Thailand!

Consumer protection is still in its infancy, you don't always have to accept the way it is, but you have to deal with it, and sometimes you can't do anything about it.

I'm not sure I am in the position of giving you advice since I am still in the process of trying to find a way to deal with it, and examine the range between what I have to accept because I'm living in Thailand and what I need not accept because it is utterly shameless

But I don't want to rant about Thailand, because I had suprisingly good customer experiences here, too!

So back to AIS. I still don't understand when and why you were charged for the download volume? Does this have anything to do with the current bill, or is this the problem you mentioned you had in the past? I listened to the GPRS/EDGE call plans several time last month and I believe to remember they were always talking about 1 Baht 'for each additional minute'.

You might still try to find a compromise/deal with AIS. Just remember the number 1 expat rule 'stay calm and friendly', but be persistent

And I'm sure there are many people out there who agree with you, this subforum is just not a very busy place I guess!

Cheers,

welo

[benchmark]

Welcome to Thailand!

Consumer protection is still in its infancy, you don't always have to accept the way it is, but you have to deal with it, and sometimes you can't do anything about it.

I'm not sure I am in the position of giving you advice since I am still in the process of trying to find a way to deal with it, and examine the range between what I have to accept because I'm living in Thailand and what I need not accept because it is utterly shameless

But I don't want to rant about Thailand, because I had suprisingly good customer experiences here, too!

So back to AIS. I still don't understand when and why you were charged for the download volume? Does this have anything to do with the current bill, or is this the problem you mentioned you had in the past? I listened to the GPRS/EDGE call plans several time last month and I believe to remember they were always talking about 1 Baht 'for each additional minute'.

You might still try to find a compromise/deal with AIS. Just remember the number 1 expat rule 'stay calm and friendly', but be persistent

And I'm sure there are many people out there who agree with you, this subforum is just not a very busy place I guess!

Cheers,

welo

Welo, thanks again and highly appreciate your moral support. This is the "up to you" mentality here.

[nikster]

PS if you somehow enabled push notifications on the iPhone, it would connect constantly - thats how you can rack up a huge number of minutes. Download volume would be near zero, it's just pinging the server, but the AIS limited plans are always per minute...

Yeah smile and be friendly and make it clear there's no way they are gonna see 6000 baht from you, then they'll compromise

[benchmark]

PS if you somehow enabled push notifications on the iPhone, it would connect constantly - thats how you can rack up a huge number of minutes. Download volume would be near zero, it's just pinging the server, but the AIS limited plans are always per minute...

Yeah smile and be friendly and make it clear there's no way they are gonna see 6000 baht from you, then they'll compromise

Thanks a lot Nikster, this is the kind of advice I expected. I thought there are no people who can help me in this forum but I found a number of very useful information from a number of people. It's good to know that I am not alone. I will not pay for sure.

[LivinLOS]

So let me get this straight..

You pay for 30 hours.. You phone is using the service 24/7 so thats gone in <1.5 days.. And the other 28 odd days of the month your upset about paying for !!

Get a monthly unlimited if your going to leave your phone connected..

No ones fault but your own..

[welo]

@LivinLOS

I am interested in your opinion. Would you mind read my post and comment on it?

Thank you.

I agree with many things said here, also with customers having to take responsibility for the behaviour of their phone/gadget/toy. BUT the provider should make it easy and possible for the customer to avoid high costs due to device 'errors' or limited technical knowledge.

• Why not send a SMS when the monthly package is finished? I mean it works with your prepaid phone credit, too.
  

• Why not offer a detailed listing of GPRS connections used (maybe on demand) as you can do with telephone numbers? (Admittingly I don't know how the monthly bill looks like, I just rely on the OP's complaint here)?
  

"That would cost them a lot of cash." - Exactly, I am not sure how exactly this statement is meant (irony?), but I'm sure an SMS would cost near to nothing for the provider, so the only thing that 'costs' is not luring customers into buying GPRS connection time at high prices any more (because those customers who are willingly buying additional time will also do so after receiving the SMS).

[benchmark]

@LivinLOS

I am interested in your opinion. Would you mind read my post and comment on it?

Thank you.

I agree with many things said here, also with customers having to take responsibility for the behaviour of their phone/gadget/toy. BUT the provider should make it easy and possible for the customer to avoid high costs due to device 'errors' or limited technical knowledge.

• Why not send a SMS when the monthly package is finished? I mean it works with your prepaid phone credit, too.
  

• Why not offer a detailed listing of GPRS connections used (maybe on demand) as you can do with telephone numbers? (Admittingly I don't know how the monthly bill looks like, I just rely on the OP's complaint here)?
  

"That would cost them a lot of cash." - Exactly, I am not sure how exactly this statement is meant (irony?), but I'm sure an SMS would cost near to nothing for the provider, so the only thing that 'costs' is not luring customers into buying GPRS connection time at high prices any more (because those customers who are willingly buying additional time will also do so after receiving the SMS).

Hi Welo,

Yes you are absolutely correct. Answers below

• Why not send a SMS when the monthly package is finished? I mean it works with your prepaid phone credit, too. -Yes, this should be the correct way to do it. Not to bill for something you dont know that you used.
  

• Why not offer a detailed listing of GPRS connections used (maybe on demand) as you can do with telephone numbers? (Admittingly I don't know how the monthly bill looks like, I just rely on the OP's complaint here)?-Their statement if I remember correct, just states the number of minutes used but does not specify when and what time. I think they should provide more details.
  
  

"That would cost them a lot of cash." - I think this person is talking about operational costs but to do what we explained above is a right of a customer and for them it won't be a significant operational cost for doing something like that.

Yesterday I found out that I have been charged Baht 130 p/minute for international roaming while I was overseas. They never inform the rates in advance. If they informed the rates then I wont be using it as much as I did. Its the same thing, before you charge the client he has a right to know for what he is getting charged at what rate and his permission in advance to do that.

But AIS seems to be neglecting this or avoiding it purposely. Obviously they make more money by doing that. But the question is "Is that ethical or not?"

Your comments were the best Welo, thanks.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

You guys have to grow up, the fault is yours nobody else, people here try to help and you still jak jak jak PAY 650 AND ITS OVER cant even understand you guys did not ask in the first place

[momosan]

You did read the fine print of the contract and othe promoational agreements when you signed up right? No where as did it mention that they would do what you are stating you wanted them to do but didn't/don't did it? As with all things in life and everywhere in the world buyer beware.

Of course it's ethical, everything that's happened has been according to the contract you signed. you've agreed to their rules for receiving their services and they've done everything accordingly.

[monty]

I do agree that AIS should send a SMS when your package is finished and they'll start charging as per the normal rate (or any provider for that matter, Dtac doesn't do this either!).

The only defense they have is that when you subscribe to any package with them, the confirmation SMS states clearly that when the package hours are finished, service will continue at the normal full rate, which is 1 Baht/minute, or 1440 Baht/day!

When you are still on pre-paid (AIS), you can easily check the remaining time on your package by dialing *139# but I have no idea if something like this is possible on post paid!

That said, AIS is normally eager to waive charges so you stay on with them. A friendly chat should help out there!

Do keep us updated on how they handle it!

[welo]

All that talking about contracts and fineprints etc is basically right, when you look at it only from a legal perspective. What IMHO some posters are lacking here is an understanding of customer service and customer protection. The first is a matter of company policy and market demand, the latter a moral matter to protect a person usually less powerful (the consumer) to be exploited by a more powerful 'person' (the company). We obiously share different opinions here (LivinLOS, HDRIDER, momoson).

I also notice that the discussion kind of goes circles since some focus on the legal perspective, and some on the 'customer experience'.

Wheras I tried to make the point that I - as somebody advocating customer service - understand that AIS did nothing wrong from a legal perspective (at least according to Thai law which doesn't care too much about consumer protection), I fail to see some supporters of the 'legal perspective' group respond to my questions. Probably because from a legal point of view they are not relevant.

About the matter of OPs outstanding bills, I would go with what monty said:

That said, AIS is normally eager to waive charges so you stay on with them. A friendly chat should help out there! Do keep us updated on how they handle it!

welo

[LivinLOS]

When you have a provider who gives free minutes.. Do they tell you when your monthly free minutes are up ??