UK Drug Convict Sandra Gregory Held At Bangkok Airport

[NanLaew]

Before we start bashing Thai Consuls, Honorary & otherwise, like many other countries, the issuing of certain types of visa does not mean that there has been any sort of background check nor does it mean the recipient is guaranteed entry upon arrival. The final decision is always taken by the immigration officer you meet on arrival, be it Thailand or Trinidad & Tobago.

A basic Tourist visa probably has the minimum of checks, if any. Non-immigrant or Business visas require a higher level of scrutiny and documentation. For example, I can get up to 90 days on arrival in Brazil as a Tourist with no visa but if I am going to be working there, that needs a visa and I need to provide police checks, sponsoring letters well in advance and can only apply for that visa in my home country; a policy that Thailand would do well to adopt IMHO.

This girl made an error of judgement some 16-odd years ago and may have strong personal reasons to revisit the 'scene of the crime'. What's that annoying term the media bandies about these days, "Seeking closure?" The Thai Immigration authorities see otherwise and that is entirely their call; it is their country after all. However, I am amazed at how many forumites quickly dam_n her as a junkie and life-time criminal without probably even knowing about her until the BBC reported this. Whatever happened to forgiveness and benefit of the doubt?

As for the suggestion that convicted criminals be prevented from getting a passport; give me a break. Can you imagine the surge in the illegal passport/visa 'industry' if governments try that one on? It will also spark up the civil liberties brigade and make lots and lots of money for attorneys and lawyers.

[orosee]

After being found guilty ,sentenced to death then a pardon the thais must think after a short term in a uk jail then returning to thailand is taking the p1ss, im inclined to agree,.

Was she convicted in the UK? Because technically after the pardon, she was free to leave and not subject to e.g. completing her life sentence in a British prison. Seems that she went straight from KP to study.

What surprises me is that 16 years have passed since her conviction, meaning that she may have been under arrest possibly a year longer, what loose ends were there? It has been 9 years since her pardon, why the timing? Anyway, it would have been wiser to meet her loose ends across the border in a friendly country, Malaysia or the current place for people to go who do not want to be caught in Thailand, Cambodia.

The photo for the article is not current, I believe?

[Donnyboy]

Whatever happened to forgiveness and benefit of the doubt?

her sentence was reduced from death to a pardon....shes been forgiven big time imho, dont push it!!

[lannaman]

a bit foolish on her behalf i think.....

More than a bit!

[PhilHarries]

Loose ends is when she made some drug business tie/connections/contacts to better smugle drugs thru and out of the kingdom. Once a junky always a junky! Some people never learn because the craving for dugs is just too great.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but she was never a junkie. In her book it states she had no money, she witnessed the student riots where a number of students were slaughtered and wanted to go home, then in her book she states she was tricked by some guy to carry heroin back for him, which she received a sum of cash to pay for her ticket to get home. But some tip-offs were made and she was apprehended at the airport all those years ago.

I don’t think you should mark everyone with the same stick, and it doesn’t look like you know what you’re talking about, it’s not cravings that turn people to drugs it’s the situations in their lives that turn them to them, you fix the situations you turn them away from drugs. I’m a volunteer at a Thai rehab center and I see this firsthand. I'd get great pleasure from punching you in the face for being ignorant.

Okay, so she's not a junkie but that makes her crime worse. If a person want to smuggle drugs for their own use and demise that's their problem but if they smuggle drugs for financial gain that's the real crime. These mules smuggle the stuff back to places like the UK to be sold on to the people that end up in a sorry state in places like the one you work in. I also don't put too much by her assertions in her book, all criminals like to blame others for their predicament.

I also don't entirely go by your assertion that "the situations in their lives" turn people to drugs. Sure that may be true in some, or even many, cases but what about the high rollers that do drugs in these high society parties? Oh sorry, it's the situation of having too much money and living too luxurious a lifestyle that makes them do it.

I guess it's the situation in your life that makes you want to resort to violence purely because you don't agree with somebody. People who derive "great pleasure" from inflicting pain on others have cropped up throughout history, fortunately most have, or are now being, dealt with.

[doggie888888]

I'm a volunteer at a Thai rehab center and I see this firsthand. I'd get great pleasure from punching you in the face for being ignorant.

Oh, that's always such a great way to gain support for your cause. Besides punching someone in the face makes them suffer more brain damage, hence more ignorant?

[jfchandler]

I understand the general sentiments being expressed here...but I'm a bit confused about the legal terminology being involved.

As to her case, the article first says she had the death sentence COMMUTED to 25 years. OK, that makes sense, and that means she still had a legal Thai conviction.

But then it says she was PARDONED. Generally, receiving a pardon, at least elsewhere, means the conviction is taken off the legal books, I think...

If she was pardoned, then what would still exist on her legal record to prevent her entering the Kingdom???

[Acharn]

The consul that issued that visa has some 'splainin to do. A major lapse in judgement.

Although sympathetic to her statement, <deleted> was she thinking? It was obvious someone was going to say no at some point. The Thai government, any government for that matter, doesn't want this type of visitor.

Not sure if a consul has a list of evey person blacklisted.

Remember, getting a visa only means you are allowed to travel to Thailand and ask for permission to enter. It does not mean you will get that permission. The permission to enter is a seperate thing, which can be denied.

Yes, many people forget that. I remember seeing stories of guys who spent two or three yeats getting their wife's visa to the States and then being denied at the port of arrival. There is probably supposed to be a database for the diplomatic personnel to check. The Thai government has not had many successes with their software progects. I recall the first attempt to computerize the traffic lights in Bangkok.

[sawadeeken]

I feel sorry for the lady, She did her time and paid her debt to society and probably does have a love for Thailand (who can't relate to that) plus many friends here. I firmly believe that she had no further plans to do any "wrong". Because of her past I can imagine that she would be a "role-model visitor".. She may have thought that if a Thai Embassy issued her a Visa that she would have clear sailing........ Anyway, I have "positive" thoughts about her plight and I do feel sorry for her, until I hear any reports that she was indeed up to no good. I wish her "LUCK"

[JFitzgerald]

The consul that issued that visa has some 'splainin to do. A major lapse in judgement.

The consular officer that issued that visa will be in trouble. Probably not major trouble, but trouble. This will also make it more difficult for the decent people to get a visa.

There is no use in having a blacklist if you aren't going to check it.

Why does she have a passport? Maybe there should be some restrictions on ex-cons getting passports, especially if they have been involved in crimes overseas. Maybe pre-stamped..."Not allowed to enter....."

Does anyone know or has read whether the Hull consulate was the issuing authority?

If so, is there any likelihood that this may have an impact on their status to continue issuing visas?

Edited December 3, 2009 by JFitzgerald

[Deerculler]

Loose ends is when she made some drug business tie/connections/contacts to better smugle drugs thru and out of the kingdom. Once a junky always a junky! Some people never learn because the craving for dugs is just too great.

I suggest you read her book, she was not a junky, she was a 'mule'.

And I thought that she had already returned to Thailand previously, before this time.

And you believe what she wrote in her book? I locked up drug dealers for years and have no symanthy for any of them. They ruin other peoples live for there own gain. She is not really worth discussing.

[jippytum]

This woman also wrote a book called ' forget you had a daughter' that describes life in UK and Thai prisons. Pleased to see the Thais are on the ball to keep this 'RIF RAFF' from returning. She will now have fodder for interviews and perhaps another book.

[lopburi3]

Edit made and post quoting old text removed. Please keep it civil. Thanks.

[jippytum]

Although she was issued a visa at a THAI consul in the UK she knew she was 'posona non grata ' in the terms of her release and transfer to the UK.

[Arkady]

I seem to remember seeing an article by an Australian drug smuggler busted in Thailand in the 70s, who also wrote a book about his experiences, saying he had recently revisited Thailand without any problems. Perhaps the old convictions are not noted on Immigration's computer. Gregory knew she had been declared persona non grata but probably assumed that getting a tourist visa meant she was now accepted. If she was really desperate to travel to Thailand, she should have changed her name by deed poll and got a new passport, or at least have tried to slip in overland from Laos or Cambodia where Immigration seems much more sleepy. The UK would not knowingly let in a convicted drug smuggler, even some one convicted in another country. However, the Home Office recently lost the details of many former UK convicts in a computer failure and there was a big row about foreign ex-cons were being allowed to come back and even live on welfare.

[Arkady]

The consul that issued that visa has some 'splainin to do. A major lapse in judgement.

The consular officer that issued that visa will be in trouble. Probably not major trouble, but trouble. This will also make it more difficult for the decent people to get a visa.

There is no use in having a blacklist if you aren't going to check it.

Why does she have a passport? Maybe there should be some restrictions on ex-cons getting passports, especially if they have been involved in crimes overseas. Maybe pre-stamped..."Not allowed to enter....."

Does anyone know or has read whether the Hull consulate was the issuing authority?

If so, is there any likelihood that this may have an impact on their status to continue issuing visas?

Do you think the Thai Foreign Ministry is efficient enough to provide all the details of foreign ex-cons in a searchable format to all consulates? I doubt it very much. I am sure they are happy to rely on Immigration to field them instead. People who apply for visas should know if they are persona non grata and save their time and money. I don't think it's the consul's responsibility. The purpose of the visas is purely to make money, not for screening purposes. It's not as if they require an extensive pile of documents or an interview.

[BanTamo]

What a pack of self righteous t_wats! Most especially the w_anker who brags of having 'locked up drug dealers for years.' Here's hoping he meets up with one of his former supplicants on a dark, deserted soi some night on his way home from a pleasant meal

[NanLaew]

Still not a lot of compassion or forgiveness from all these long-time ThaiVisa 'residents'. A lot seem to be bitter and twisted and the "hang 'em high" mentality prevails. The girl was never a dealer by the way; just another mule but it does seem some posting here are really, really having a problem with reading and comprehension. Is there ANY compassion in New Zealand?

Then we have the panic stricken newbies speed reading, missing the relevant posts and worried that their favourite Hon Consul will somehow be censured and thus be unable to get the correct visa to become (remain?) a perpetual tourist in LOS.

What a sad, distrustful and unfeeling bunch we appear to be this Thursday morning.

[theoldgit]

What a pack of self righteous t_wats! Most especially the w_anker who brags of having 'locked up drug dealers for years.' Here's hoping he meets up with one of his former supplicants on a dark, deserted soi some night on his way home from a pleasant meal

Absolutely right, drug dealers are decent people who are just trying to earn a living, just because people suffer and lives are ruined as a result of their chosen occupation should not concern them.

And yes people who have locked up these people should rightly expect summary justice to be handed out in the way you describe.

[PattayaParent]

Loose ends is when she made some drug business tie/connections/contacts to better smugle drugs thru and out of the kingdom. Once a junky always a junky! Some people never learn because the craving for dugs is just too great.

I suggest you read her book, she was not a junky, she was a 'mule'.

And I thought that she had already returned to Thailand previously, before this time.

And you believe what she wrote in her book? I locked up drug dealers for years and have no symanthy for any of them. They ruin other peoples live for there own gain. She is not really worth discussing.

Again, find out what you're talking about before opening your mouth.

She was not a drugs dealer either.

She was carrying an amount that would not even have gotten a custodial sentence in UK.

[Dukeleto]

Will probably lead to a crackdown on visa applications from the UK, and "NO" I dont rely on this service.

[aka_jack]

Gotta love some of these replies ! Not sticking up for her or anything by the way, but if she had just been caught it would have been cant do the time dont do the crime replies, but since shes done the time its now shes a junky always was or what was she thinking rubbish ! get over it duh !

[neverdie]

What a pack of self righteous t_wats! Most especially the w_anker who brags of having 'locked up drug dealers for years.' Here's hoping he meets up with one of his former supplicants on a dark, deserted soi some night on his way home from a pleasant meal

I am sure hes worried about that .

I will agree with you on the point I think your trying to make, there are certainly some harsh comments in the thread, I'm not quite sure I would throw my handbag down over them though.

[neverdie]

What a pack of self righteous t_wats! Most especially the w_anker who brags of having 'locked up drug dealers for years.' Here's hoping he meets up with one of his former supplicants on a dark, deserted soi some night on his way home from a pleasant meal

Absolutely right, drug dealers are decent people who are just trying to earn a living, just because people suffer and lives are ruined as a result of their chosen occupation should not concern them.

And yes people who have locked up these people should rightly expect summary justice to be handed out in the way you describe.

Its a very strange mentality some people have theoldgit, but once again you have posted very wisely

[webfact]

one nonsensical off-topic post deleted

[submaniac]

Forgiveness, yes, that I can give. She did her time, and if both the Thai government and British government think her debt to society has been paid, it's not my place to question it. Sympathy? Not so much. Sympathize with someone because they are stupid? Sorry can't do. The thing is, even though I have U.S. citizenship, I also have Thai citizenship. While Sandra Gregory can have the British government lobby for her, if it were me or any other Thai, we would have been executed. No ifs, ands or buts.

[BlackJack]

Loose ends is when she made some drug business tie/connections/contacts to better smugle drugs thru and out of the kingdom. Once a junky always a junky! Some people never learn because the craving for dugs is just too great.

I suggest you read her book, she was not a junky, she was a 'mule'.

And I thought that she had already returned to Thailand previously, before this time.

stay tuned for part 2 of the book

[garyh]

Gotta love some of these replies ! Not sticking up for her or anything by the way, but if she had just been caught it would have been cant do the time dont do the crime replies, but since shes done the time its now shes a junky always was or what was she thinking rubbish ! get over it duh !

She only did part of the time, she avoided the death penalty and pardoned, she got off very lightly compared to others who have committed the same crime In Thailand. This kind of publicity makes others who are considering the same course of action to believe that they too will get off if caught.

[webfact]

A deleted nonsensical off-topic post was posted again and deleted.

A suspension was given

[CORVETTELOVER]

come in via main airport clever how many other border crossings are there.