Do The Thais Have "political Correctness"?

[Kitsch22]

This question is not intended to have any connection with the recent thread referring to excessive PC among farangs/expats/TV members.

Please understand that I am not enquiring here about Thai laws and traditions against lese majeste, nor the Thai cultural attribute "kreng jai" nor anything of a equivalent nature.

I am seeking real life examples - something like the appointment of an Akha to the board of Thai Airways or a political party putting forward as a matter of policy a "women only" list of candidates in an election or somebody being fired from their job for using an expression like "katoey" or something similar. I have been unable to think of any actual instances from my own experience in Thailand.

The motivation for the question is that I have failed hopelessly in my attempts to explain in Thai to my wife (who speaks only limited and basic English) what the expression "political correctness" really means.

[SeanMoran]

Please excuse me if this is perhaps a little too comical, and I will try to think of more suitably serious replies as they come along, but today for lunch, I was lucky to have a good example to follow in learning how to eat my first KFC burger gai with a knife and fork.

I see now how barbaric I must have looked at A&W yesterday. It's actually less greasy on the fingers to eat KFC the civilised way.

[ryladie99]

Please excuse me if this is perhaps a little too comical, and I will try to think of more suitably serious replies as they come along, but today for lunch, I was lucky to have a good example to follow in learning how to eat my first KFC burger gai with a knife and fork.

I see now how barbaric I must have looked at A&W yesterday. It's actually less greasy on the fingers to eat KFC the civilised way.

Thanks for posting, I am sure the Thai will not mind eating KFC with fork and knife. I myself will do the same. Less work and I save money to buy wipe paper for my hand??? Let's hear more opinion then I will inject my comment later...Merry Christmas...and Happy New you 2010...

[Kitsch22]

Please excuse me if this is perhaps a little too comical, and I will try to think of more suitably serious replies as they come along, but today for lunch, I was lucky to have a good example to follow in learning how to eat my first KFC burger gai with a knife and fork.

I see now how barbaric I must have looked at A&W yesterday. It's actually less greasy on the fingers to eat KFC the civilised way.

Thanks for posting, I am sure the Thai will not mind eating KFC with fork and knife. I myself will do the same. Less work and I save money to buy wipe paper for my hand??? Let's hear more opinion then I will inject my comment later...Merry Christmas...and Happy New you 2010...

Indeed SeanMoran paints an evocative picture. But it's not really what I mean by "Political Correctness". I had in mind something exhibiting more the grotesque hypocritical and ignorant trappings of the incident in the States where a man lost his job because he used the word "niggardly".

So far nobody (including myself) has come up with an example from Thailand and I am beginning to doubt that any exist. How very sensible of the Thais!

[F1fanatic]

The Thais are very PC - that's why we hear 'farang' all the time when out and about.

Funnily enough I would have thought it v rude back in the West to keep referring to someone as 'a foreigner' in their presence - but that's just me being stupidly sensitive - I'm far more PC now.

[Kitsch22]

The Thais are very PC - that's why we hear 'farang' all the time when out and about.

Funnily enough I would have thought it v rude back in the West to keep referring to someone as 'a foreigner' in their presence - but that's just me being stupidly sensitive - I'm far more PC now.

Not a PC issue. The dislike of a few farangs for the word "farang" has been done to death many times. I find it no more offensive to call a farang a farang than to call a Thai "that Thai guy". Do it myself all the time if I do not know the farang's name or if I know that the person to whom I am speaking does not know the farang's name. Although it would obviously be politically incorrect for me to call a spade a spade. Unless I were talking to a Thai, when it would then be okay.

[F1fanatic]

The Thais are very PC - that's why we hear 'farang' all the time when out and about.

Funnily enough I would have thought it v rude back in the West to keep referring to someone as 'a foreigner' in their presence - but that's just me being stupidly sensitive - I'm far more PC now.

Not a PC issue. The dislike of a few farangs for the word "farang" has been done to death many times. I find it no more offensive to call a farang a farang than to call a Thai "that Thai guy". Do it myself all the time if I do not know the farang's name or if I know that the person to whom I am speaking does not know the farang's name. Although it would obviously be politically incorrect for me to call a spade a spade. Unless I were talking to a Thai, when it would then be okay.

So back in the West you would constantly refer to someone as 'the foreigner', even in their presence?

I used to be stupidly sensitive (in the West), and refer to 'foreigners' (if I didn't know them) as 'that guy/woman over there - do you know their name?'. Then again, I wouldn't mention them at all if there was no good reason to do so.

Like you, I never used to be offended by the term farang, until I heard it time and time again by EVERYBODY.

[MAJIC]

Kitch2

I am sorry to say your wife will never understand the meaning of Political Correctness,not because you have not made your best effort to explain,but because it is not in their culture or nature.

PC primarily means having regard to the feelings of others so that you do not offend them,Thais do not have this ability to understand.

Consider my recent experience having lived in Thailand for 7 years and being heartily sick of the word Farang having heard it on average 5 times a day, Its Racialist and they well know it.

Now please dont all jump in and give your explanations as to the fact it came from the French in Laos and at least 3 other countries blah blah.

Here is the example,one week back in the UK and I found myself in Thai female company, the gist of the conversation was intermitten with Falang falang falang (sic).

So I spoke to the most vocal one and explained to her that the use of the word Farang was offensive to most Foriegners in your country,and now you are in my country you must be the Farang and not me. She replied "oh no I can never be Farang I am Thai" and no amount of argument would convince her otherwise.

This also happened with my ex Thai Teacher Girfriend and her reply was the same"I can never be Falang (sic)I am Thai"

So try the acid test on your Thai wife or Girlfriend and ask them the question: If you come back to my country will you be the Farang? if not then dont keep mentioning the word in my company.

This same Thai female in the UK also came up with a new slant on the old chestnut "Englishman him Butterfly no good he dont look after wife or children" sound familiar guys to your time in Thailand with the first word replaced with Thaiman.

Sorry if I have gone around the houses here but no Kitch22 a Thai has no hope of grasping the concept of Political Correctness.

Majic

[Kitsch22]

Kitch2

I am sorry to say your wife will never understand the meaning of Political Correctness,not because you have not made your best effort to explain,but because it is not in their culture or nature.

PC primarily means having regard to the feelings of others so that you do not offend them,Thais do not have this ability to understand.

That is not what "PC" means. If it meant that, then it would accurately translate as "Kreng Jai". But an essential element of PC is hypocrisy, which has nothing whatsoever to do with Kreng Jai.

Consider my recent experience having lived in Thailand for 7 years and being heartily sick of the word Farang having heard it on average 5 times a day, Its Racialist and they well know it.

Now please dont all jump in and give your explanations as to the fact it came from the French in Laos and at least 3 other countries blah blah.

The etymology is unimportant. What are the important factors are meaning, common usage and the intention of the user. "Farang" means Caucasian and has no exactly congruent synonym within the Thai language. There is no pejorative connotation at all and your contrary perception simply shows that you do not understand the Thai language as well as you think you do. You think that it means "foreigner", but you are wrong. When you say "racialist" you are actually right, but it is clear that you think "racist" and complain accordingly. The use of the word "Farang" by a Thai is nether politically correct nor politically incorrect.

Here is the example,one week back in the UK and I found myself in Thai female company, the gist of the conversation was intermitten with Falang falang falang (sic).

So I spoke to the most vocal one and explained to her that the use of the word Farang was offensive to most Foriegners in your country,and now you are in my country you must be the Farang and not me. She replied "oh no I can never be Farang I am Thai" and no amount of argument would convince her otherwise.

This also happened with my ex Thai Teacher Girfriend and her reply was the same"I can never be Falang (sic)I am Thai"

So try the acid test on your Thai wife or Girlfriend and ask them the question: If you come back to my country will you be the Farang? if not then dont keep mentioning the word in my company.

But that would be as inappropriate and silly as me suggesting that you might become a black if you were to visit Africa.

This same Thai female in the UK also came up with a new slant on the old chestnut "Englishman him Butterfly no good he dont look after wife or children" sound familiar guys to your time in Thailand with the first word replaced with Thaiman.

Sorry if I have gone around the houses here but no Kitch22 a Thai has no hope of grasping the concept of Political Correctness.

On that last single line of your post, I suspect that I may finally be forced to agree with you.

[mojaco]

I have lived in Thailand 15 years, speak, read and write Thai well, and live 100% of the time in an all-Thai small northern town.

I have only ever heard two feeble attempts by the Thai to be politically correct. Neither has caught on at all:

1) - Say "khon dtang prathet" ("foreign person") instead of "farang" (etymology uncertain, but NEVER used to refer to orientals of ANY ethnicity. My Japanese wife is not a "farang" but I am.)

2) - Say "khon Thai poo khao" or "chao Thai poo khao" (both meaning "Thai person in the mountains") instead of "chao khao" ("mountain person")

Both of these PC expressions are by some Thai who feel the current, popular expressions are denigrating.

And, by the way, I was just overhearing Thai people instruct other Thai people. They were not talking to me about what I should say.

Edited December 19, 2009 by mojaco

[SeanMoran]

Thank you for accepting my earlier attempt at KFC humour, and I did manage to think up something a little more serious if not necessarily on-topic for this thread, apart from the slim margin of relevance to the Farang/Kon Thai dichotomy. I hope it's worth mentioning.

Here where I have just moved less than three weeks ago, it seems like a 99% Thai population, and yet I have made the same mistake three times now, of speaking in my childlike pasa Thai to new friends who appear to look Thai at first glance, but have since found out that Mr Luphan is from Borneo, Miss Faa comes from Myanmar, and Mr Chan-kit is indeed Thai, but they had me falling for it this morning due to his mastery of spoken English that he hails from Mexico.

How this might be reversed to reflect on the common Thai assumption that I must be amelican; ie. not exactly PC, is a rather long bow to draw back on-topic, but I have learned a little more caution after the mistakes of the last few weeks, in that if it looks like a Thai, it doesn't mean it necessarily quacks like a Thai.

[Kitsch22]

I have lived in Thailand 15 years, speak, read and write Thai well, and live 100% of the time in an all-Thai small northern town.

I have only ever heard two feeble attempts by the Thai to be politically correct. Neither has caught on at all:

1) - Say "khon dtang prathet" ("foreign person") instead of "farang" (etymology uncertain, but NEVER used to refer to orientals of ANY ethnicity. My Japanese wife is not a "farang" but I am.)

2) - Say "khon Thai poo khao" or "chao Thai poo khao" (both meaning "Thai person in the mountains") instead of "chao khao" ("mountain person")

Both of these PC expressions are by some Thai who feel the current, popular expressions are denigrating.

And, by the way, I was just overhearing Thai people instruct other Thai people. They were not talking to me about what I should say.

I think you may be right. My wife is a Northerner as well; I shall try them on her, except that she would say Khon Doi where you say Khon poo khao. A parallel may be the fact that she will now occasionally say "Akha" when in company, whereas years ago it was uniformly "Meo"

[mojaco]

I think you may be right. My wife is a Northerner as well; I shall try them on her, except that she would say Khon Doi where you say Khon poo khao. A parallel may be the fact that she will now occasionally say "Akha" when in company, whereas years ago it was uniformly "Meo"

The key point I think is that by including the word "Thai" in the PC "chao THAI poo khao" they are being counted as being Thai and not as some non-Thai type of "indian" person. Just as the words "red-skin", "indian" etc. were dropped as being offensive in the USA.

Of course, in Thailand the government is only VERY slowly granting them citizenship, and so perhaps it is the government who resists calling them "Thai" in order to keep them as an "indian" class.

This is not unique the world over. Although fully citizens, the "Burakamin" class ("Eta class") in Japan are denigrated and cannot attain high positions in industry or government. Sad.