All-out Attempt By Red Shirts To Bring Down Government

[ChiangMaiFun]

well that accounts for 90% of the democratic free-world - welcome to democracy folks!

You seem to have a fetish in bashing coalitions. Not sure why, both PPP and the current government (and the first TRT back in 2001) was coalition governments...

And your lines about Britain being a cradle of the parliament and that their failure to have coalitions the last 100 years (outside war time) would be a measure-stock of anything is laughable and so home-blind it is just sad.

But please, go on, tell us why a coalition is good (TRT+others) or bad (current) or bad (PPP+others)...

'fetish'? 'failure to have a coalition'? are you sure you are thinking straight? 'failure'? we don't see it that way... Unbelievableeeeeee

[Lite Beer]

Post containing derogatory comments about Thais deleted.

[TAWP]

well that accounts for 90% of the democratic free-world - welcome to democracy folks!

You seem to have a fetish in bashing coalitions. Not sure why, both PPP and the current government (and the first TRT back in 2001) was coalition governments...

And your lines about Britain being a cradle of the parliament and that their failure to have coalitions the last 100 years (outside war time) would be a measure-stock of anything is laughable and so home-blind it is just sad.

But please, go on, tell us why a coalition is good (TRT+others) or bad (current) or bad (PPP+others)...

'fetish'? 'failure to have a coalition'? are you sure you are thinking straight? 'failure'? we don't see it that way... Unbelievableeeeeee

Nice way to avoid the point. Trolling, are we?

Or go ahead and tell us why coalitions are bad. And please remember that both TRT and PPP was part of coalitions.

[rixalex]

and none of you canaries comment on the take over of the airport and the chaos that led to ordinary Thais?

For comment on the take over of the airport you would have to refer back to threads around that time, and concerning that issue. If you bothered to do that, you would find it garnered very little support right across the board.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

I don't think that Chiang Mai Fun or anyone can claim that the national 'temperature' supports either red or yellow because I personally think that they would be both wrong. I believe that most people just want to see an end to this nonsense and hope that the rule of law is respected and enforced...law breakers jailed, corruption fought, riots ceased and end of hostilities. The majority don't want some election that is going to cause riots, vote buying, political unrest when either side wins, etc. Rightly or wrongly I think that we are enjoying our temporary time of calm too much!

[ballpoint]

and none of you canaries comment on the take over of the airport and the chaos that led to ordinary Thais? I mention it and... wait for it... nothing! not very democratic what, what? I know, I know - if you're not yellow you're not mellow - and better red and dead right? and you all ignore that I mentioned that I actually like Abhsit - and I and others are not lobbying for anything to do with Khun T - so please could everyone stop linking comments on wanting an election with a possible return of Khun T? it really does the debate no justice - because we want an election does not mean we are stooges and the like and it debases the whole canary position IMHO.

Okay then. Let's go back to the situation as it was prior to the "takeover" of the airport. The courts have sinced ruled on the illegality of the PPP, and redcarded a number of MP's, so that would mean we end up with, let's see now, hmmm, oh yes, we end up with exactly what we have now. I also pointed out a number of pages ago that the records show that any election held right now would probably result in the exact same people sitting in parliament. History shows that people who voted for a PPP man will still vote for him when he's a BJP man. After all, they did when he was an NAP one, and a TRT one. I actually believe we would still end up with the same ruling coalition. However, it would be irresponsible of any government to hold an election in the current political climate. There is no way it would be fair, and we'd end up with another round of wrangling, court cases and protest, thus undoing all the good work this government has done through the global recession in the past year. Why don't the reds allow free and open campaigning in every part of Thailand? What do they fear?

And please, what's with all the "canary" business? We don't go calling the reds "the baboon <deleted>" do we? It debases your entire argument.

[rixalex]

And please, what's with all the "canary" business? We don't go calling the reds "the baboon <deleted>" do we? It debases your entire argument.

Well it would if he actually had one.

Where we are at now is that he accepts that the current government led by Abhsisit is legal, lawful and legitimate, but because a certain minority group misunderstands that it is not, the entire nation must pander to their whim and go to the polls immediately. That's not an argument, it's daft nonsensical twaddle.

[hhgz]

"Threat of total chaos"

Oh no, TOTAL - not partial - chaos. Over a year ago, bingobongo (and others) predicted that thousands of red and yellow shirts would be killed. He, and others, were off by thousands.

[Samuian]

CMF -- the current government is the elected government (elected by the people that elected Samak). The people have decided and you know it: You don't answer the point made .. you avoid it

If the previous 2 governments were duely elected then this one is too. There was nothing untoward in how the Democrats were elected (the process). It is standard in parliamentary democracy

Humbug and Balderdash! well... it is technically true - I was going along the 'but the people feel they have not elected them' road - you see if in England we had elected a Labour government (for instance) and the Tories and Libs had got together and colluded to form a government there would be outcry even if the Courts would say 'it is legal' - you see it's not just about the law it's about perception - all I am saying is let's have more transparency - I have said, consistently, (but noone conveniently remembers) that I am against violent protest whomsoever perpetuates it - I do not hear this from our canary friends - just

red = bad

red = immaturity

red = lack of Parliamentary understanding

and worst of all red = Thaksin stooges

and all yellow is mellow!!!

Alright then, "technically true"- how you argue then that it is untrue, unright, illegal if you admit that it is "technically true"?

And you avoid to answer who are those people exactly you mention: 'but the people feel they have not elected them'

the UDD, the red shirts, the "we love Thaksin" bunch or the "King Thaksins warriors" or all of them?

Who are trying to deny this government the same rights, they sat still on, while the 2 previous "governments" have been at the helm?

Why haven't they come up and supported the yelow shirts, at least they've been out for a rather similiar crusade.... to oust an unjust government.... why are the followers so much opposed to the agenda of the PAD in it's core it must be the same orare there several rights and wrongs, several grades of corrupt politicians?

maybe you can enlighten the audience here - today a bit...!?

Is it because they, the red shirts and supporters, are the "right team" like your favorite football/soccer/rugby team?

Is it all about whom YOU favor or about what and who is better for this country and it's people?

As the coup was widely supported it seems that it was widely accepted - except from someone who is going to lose a lot....any further questions?

Ask!

Rubbish... all the Thai's I spoke to hated the yellows for taking the airport - you are living in dreamland - they desimated the tourist trade and it hasn't recovered yet - and humiliated the Thai people in the eyes of the world... you mean you agree with illegal action such as this? unbelievableeeee...

Sorry, you are drifting off - still not answering the question, or avoiding it?!

- it was about an "democratically elected government" which you wrote: "..is TECHNICALLY TRUE" - Now you are trying to veer away from it, in referring to "the airport occupation of the yellow shirts.." and that "...all the Thai I spoke to hated the yellows for....." well, well, well except Kasit as a maybe supporter, who has visited the crowd at suvannabhum; there are no "yellow shirts from the airport occupation" in the coalition right now - and the common red shirt argument that the present government is a "puppet of the Yellows, the Army and the Elite" (whoever they are) doesn't hold the water because those voice who claim this fail to come up with the evidence!

A claim, can become only acceptable if there is SUFFICIENT evidence, if it can't be dished up, the defense remains very, very weak - or what sort of democratic law and order are you trying to preach here "eatable democrazy" where money and the Old Patronage System rulez?

It's time for change and as some other poster worte - time is rife, people are fed up with red, yellow, blue, occupations all these interruptions, if so the majority wants to go on with their life's... and this countries economic recovery!

There is much more then calling elections, it's too easy and right now not needed, the house has be in order first, the mess cleaned up and the parameters set right - then it may be time... it's the "old Elite of crony politicians, which supported one another through every storm and through every "democratic election" rattling their swords, through various means, because none of them want's to give up an easy and very secure "money for nothing and the chicks for free..."

Or how do you explain Supanburi's NIchname "Banharn City", with a Banharn Tower, a Banharn Stadium - as he is a veteran politician, a one time PM and besides the owner of one of the largest construction companies in this country, as his mates, one of them happen to become the owner of one of the largest and wealthiest Telecom Companies in this country - in a breathtaking time frame and in the time he became PM his fortunes tripeled - accidentally of course or just "lucky" - it's all about democracy - isn't it - and that should include fairness, law and order - I believe it is what you are trying to promote - is it, or what is it are you talking about?

Tell us!

Get real!

[ballpoint]

And please, what's with all the "canary" business? We don't go calling the reds "the baboon <deleted>" do we? It debases your entire argument.

Well it would if he actually had one.

Where we are at now is that he accepts that the current government led by Abhsisit is legal, lawful and legitimate, but because a certain minority group misunderstands that it is not, the entire nation must pander to their whim and go to the polls immediately. That's not an argument, it's daft nonsensical twaddle.

And ironically, the single biggest reason why it wouldn't be prudent to hold elections right now is that same minority group, and its threats (and proven record of) intimidation and violence against opposing campaigners. Until someone of the "elections at all cost" persuasion puts forward a reasoned way of ensuring they would be fair, and people would be able to be given information by all sides, their call is just fanciful thinking.

[ChiangMaiFun]

and none of you canaries comment on the take over of the airport and the chaos that led to ordinary Thais? I mention it and... wait for it... nothing! not very democratic what, what? I know, I know - if you're not yellow you're not mellow - and better red and dead right? and you all ignore that I mentioned that I actually like Abhsit - and I and others are not lobbying for anything to do with Khun T - so please could everyone stop linking comments on wanting an election with a possible return of Khun T? it really does the debate no justice - because we want an election does not mean we are stooges and the like and it debases the whole canary position IMHO.

Okay then. Let's go back to the situation as it was prior to the "takeover" of the airport. The courts have sinced ruled on the illegality of the PPP, and redcarded a number of MP's, so that would mean we end up with, let's see now, hmmm, oh yes, we end up with exactly what we have now. I also pointed out a number of pages ago that the records show that any election held right now would probably result in the exact same people sitting in parliament. History shows that people who voted for a PPP man will still vote for him when he's a BJP man. After all, they did when he was an NAP one, and a TRT one. I actually believe we would still end up with the same ruling coalition. However, it would be irresponsible of any government to hold an election in the current political climate. There is no way it would be fair, and we'd end up with another round of wrangling, court cases and protest, thus undoing all the good work this government has done through the global recession in the past year. Why don't the reds allow free and open campaigning in every part of Thailand? What do they fear?

And please, what's with all the "canary" business? We don't go calling the reds "the baboon <deleted>" do we? It debases your entire argument.

just jesting...

but you do call them stooges, ellude to inbreading (now deleted) and other types of slants - he who has not sinned etc.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I don't think that Chiang Mai Fun or anyone can claim that the national 'temperature' supports either red or yellow because I personally think that they would be both wrong. I believe that most people just want to see an end to this nonsense and hope that the rule of law is respected and enforced...law breakers jailed, corruption fought, riots ceased and end of hostilities. The majority don't want some election that is going to cause riots, vote buying, political unrest when either side wins, etc. Rightly or wrongly I think that we are enjoying our temporary time of calm too much!

I sincerely hope you are right... I am against all of the pracitices you outline regardless of colour of team shirt and I have stated this consistently

[SomTumTiger]

Interesting that they chose to arrest that UDD guard for bombing the Army HQ. I thought the UDD was nonviolent.... Red, yellow, blue, flush 'em all.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Interesting that they chose to arrest that UDD guard for bombing the Army HQ. I thought the UDD was nonviolent.... Red, yellow, blue, flush 'em all.

A very bad development... I am against violence (for the record) from any source of whatever hue

[hammered]

While obviosuly the majority do not support total chaos, it only takes a relatively small amount to create total chaos and then the majority want an end to it. That can create the conditions for a poltical change. That is what this is all about.

[animatic]

well that accounts for 90% of the democratic free-world - welcome to democracy folks!

You seem to have a fetish in bashing coalitions. Not sure why, both PPP and the current government (and the first TRT back in 2001) was coalition governments...

And your lines about Britain being a cradle of the parliament and that their failure to have coalitions the last 100 years (outside war time) would be a measure-stock of anything is laughable and so home-blind it is just sad.

But please, go on, tell us why a coalition is good (TRT+others) or bad (current) or bad (PPP+others)...

'fetish'? 'failure to have a coalition'? are you sure you are thinking straight? 'failure'? we don't see it that way... Unbelievableeeeeee

TAWP sounds perfectly lucid, he just contradicts you.

A stooge does something for someone without realizing

the real reason they are being used, or blindly ignoring that

because they believe something different. It doesn't mean

that they are NOT being used, just that they don't understand

clearly that they are being used, or are self deluding about it.

This sadly can describe why Thaksin has too much control of the red movement,

and why it is not taken seriously for it's legitimate desires.

Ditch Thaksin 100%, and you might see a sea change in respect for Red issues,

with Thaksin there is little to support, because the sham over rides the real.

Edited January 23, 2010 by animatic

[ChiangMaiFun]

well that accounts for 90% of the democratic free-world - welcome to democracy folks!

You seem to have a fetish in bashing coalitions. Not sure why, both PPP and the current government (and the first TRT back in 2001) was coalition governments...

And your lines about Britain being a cradle of the parliament and that their failure to have coalitions the last 100 years (outside war time) would be a measure-stock of anything is laughable and so home-blind it is just sad.

But please, go on, tell us why a coalition is good (TRT+others) or bad (current) or bad (PPP+others)...

'fetish'? 'failure to have a coalition'? are you sure you are thinking straight? 'failure'? we don't see it that way... Unbelievableeeeeee

TAWP sounds perfectly lucid, he just contradicts you.

A stooge does something for someone without realizing

the real reason they are being used, or blindly ignoring that

because they believe something different. It doesn't mean

that they are NOT being used, just that they don't understand

clearly that they are being used, or are self deluding about it.

This sadly can describe why Thaksin has too much control of the red movement,

and why it is not taken seriously for it's legitimate desires.

Ditch Thaksin 100%, and you might see a sea change in respect for Red issues,

with Thaksin there is little to support, because the sham over rides the real.

Please quote ONE time that I have supported Thaksin? or the Reds? I simply put forward the view (and stand by it 100%) that Thais that I have spoken to feel they have not elected the current governement - it is you over-sensitive yellows who have over-reacted and called all who challenge 'stooges', or Thaksin supporters - I have found this reaction highly unconvincing and the language used un-friendly and sometimes so rude or insulting Admin have deleted it.

[Jingthing]

Please quote ONE time that I have supported Thaksin? or the Reds? I simply put forward the view (and stand by it 100%) that Thais that I have spoken to feel they have not elected the current governement - it is you over-sensitive yellows who have over-reacted and called all who challenge 'stooges', or Thaksin supporters - I have found this reaction highly unconvincing and the language used un-friendly and sometimes so rude or insulting Admin have deleted it.

For the millionth time, detesting Thaksin and the red thugs does NOT equate with supporting PAD/yellow/Sondhi! As far as your posts, sorry, you come off clearly as solidly pro red. I feel the majority of westerners here who express anti-red sentiment have no love for the yellows either, but feel the Thaksinista reds are the BIGGER EVIL between two evils.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

Please quote ONE time that I have supported Thaksin? or the Reds? I simply put forward the view (and stand by it 100%) that Thais that I have spoken to feel they have not elected the current governement - it is you over-sensitive yellows who have over-reacted and called all who challenge 'stooges', or Thaksin supporters - I have found this reaction highly unconvincing and the language used un-friendly and sometimes so rude or insulting Admin have deleted it.

Yet time and again you have admitted the legitimacy of this government. You call for new elections based upon the ignorance of some portion of the electorate and not on any other basis. That those same ignorant (of parliamentary democracy) 'voters' happen to be Thaksin supporters do or die just happens to be .... coincidental?

[animatic]

TAWP sounds perfectly lucid, he just contradicts you.

A stooge does something for someone without realizing

the real reason they are being used, or blindly ignoring that

because they believe something different. It doesn't mean

that they are NOT being used, just that they don't understand

clearly that they are being used, or are self deluding about it.

This sadly can describe why Thaksin has too much control of the red movement,

and why it is not taken seriously for it's legitimate desires.

Ditch Thaksin 100%, and you might see a sea change in respect for Red issues,

with Thaksin there is little to support, because the sham over rides the real.

Please quote ONE time that I have supported Thaksin? or the Reds? I simply put forward the view (and stand by it 100%) that Thais that I have spoken to feel they have not elected the current governement - it is you over-sensitive yellows who have over-reacted and called all who challenge 'stooges', or Thaksin supporters - I have found this reaction highly unconvincing and the language used un-friendly and sometimes so rude or insulting Admin have deleted it.

Why should I quote, you I said nothing about that.

Yes any side that hasn't gotten their guy in office feels they didn't elect the government.

I never elected George Bush,the lesser, but I got stuck with him and his legacy.

And assorted Euros and Asians blaming me for electing him...

So easy to find someone up north who says they didn't elect them.

But We know from past experiences that Thaksin absolutely did NOT

represent sectors that didn't vote for him, just the opposite.

While it is clear Abhisit and Korn try to give services to the north

and constituencies that didn't vote for them.

That is representing the people, ALL the people regardless of voting demographics.

And you keep trying to use Yellow as an insult and yet claim neutrality... doesn't work.

You may not be red but you are anti-yellow and use that as a cudgel against anti-red speech,

Seems pretty red biased to me.

I didn't do anything to you except note the relation to the word stooge and the current situation,

what kind of an over-reaction is that?... a yellow one you say.

How can that be. I have never met a PAD member; so how can that be?

If you say that's because I dispute current Red aims,

then that same logic makes you quite RED SHIRT.

So maybe calling names and labels is a waste of all our time.

I don't see myself deleted above. So try not to use blanket condemnations,

if you want precision of attack do so, if not expect blanket rebuttals too.

Edited January 23, 2010 by animatic

[ChiangMaiFun]

TAWP sounds perfectly lucid, he just contradicts you.

A stooge does something for someone without realizing

the real reason they are being used, or blindly ignoring that

because they believe something different. It doesn't mean

that they are NOT being used, just that they don't understand

clearly that they are being used, or are self deluding about it.

This sadly can describe why Thaksin has too much control of the red movement,

and why it is not taken seriously for it's legitimate desires.

Ditch Thaksin 100%, and you might see a sea change in respect for Red issues,

with Thaksin there is little to support, because the sham over rides the real.

Please quote ONE time that I have supported Thaksin? or the Reds? I simply put forward the view (and stand by it 100%) that Thais that I have spoken to feel they have not elected the current governement - it is you over-sensitive yellows who have over-reacted and called all who challenge 'stooges', or Thaksin supporters - I have found this reaction highly unconvincing and the language used un-friendly and sometimes so rude or insulting Admin have deleted it.

Why should I quote, you I said nothing about that.

Yes any side that hasn't gotten their guy in office feels they didn't elect the government.

I never elected George Bush,the lesser, but I got stuck with him and his legacy.

And assorted Euros and Asians blaming me for electing him...

So easy to find someone up north who says they didn't elect them.

But We know from past experiences that Thaksin absolutely did NOT

represent sectors that didn't vote for him, just the opposite.

While it is clear Abhisit and Korn try to give services to the north

and constituencies that didn't vote for them.

That is representing the people, ALL the people regardless of voting demographics.

And you keep trying to use Yellow as an insult and yet claim neutrality... doesn't work.

You may not be red but you are anti-yellow and use that as a cudgel against anti-red speech,

Seems pretty red biased to me.

I didn't do anything to you except note the relation to the word stooge and the current situation,

what kind of an over-reaction is that?... a yellow one you say.

How can that be. I have never met a PAD member; so how can that be?

If you say that's because I dispute current Red aims,

then that same logic makes you quite RED SHIRT.

So maybe calling names and labels is a waste of all our time.

I don't see myself deleted above. So try not to use blanket condemnations,

if you want precision of attack do so, if not expect blanket rebuttals too.

There is no question that I am much more sympathetic to the red shirts - I do not deny it... any sensible thinker would be but I am not one because I am a visitor here just like you - I am simply commenting on the debate. I just wish Thaksin did not lead it and I do not support any hint of violence towards the government...

although I understand it but you do not and therein lies a BIG problem because if you yellows do not understand or comprehend it then no change or compromise can happen and that leads to... we will have to wait ansd see and hope not violence - the ONLY thing to stop is an ELECTION! because then there would be no cause... but I feel you just don't 'get it'

[jdinasia]

There is no question that I am much more sympathetic to the red shirts - I do not deny it... any sensible thinker would be but I am not one because I am a visitor here just like you - I am simply commenting on the debate. I just wish Thaksin did not lead it and I do not support any hint of violence towards the government...

although I understand it but you do not and therein lies a BIG problem because if you yellows do not understand or comprehend it then no change or compromise can happen and that leads to... we will have to wait ansd see and hope not violence - the ONLY thing to stop is an ELECTION! because then there would be no cause... but I feel you just don't 'get it'

"any sensible thinker would be but I am not one" I think you need some punctuation there!

Again ... I see you calling for elections when you admitted that the current government's election was proper.

Why, then would we need new elections before they were required? Oh yes, you answer that too by saying the reds are ignorant in the ways of parliamentary democracy. They didn't have the majority of the last elections and formed a coalition government. Samak was out .. but could have come back had Thaksin wanted him. Then Thaksin's Brother-in-law was elected --- and then he was out ---- and then our current PM was elected when small parties shifted alliegance (remember those small parties had said before the elections that they would NOT form a coalition government with PPP --- but they did)

So ... as you have stated in the past .... this government is legal. Spend your time teaching those reds around you about the basic nature of democracy and parliamentary democracy in particular. (1) If you get caught buying votes --- you are not practicing democracy (2) The people elect the MP's and not the PM

Teach them that ... and not to throw grenades and then they can wait for the next elections which could happen soon but will certainly happen in the next 3 years.

[rainman]

[animatic]

The general problem for some is lack of understanding,

for many others it is not being on the side that has power,

and never a chance of getting there. So they joined the side

that SAYS they can get into power. Some don't understand WHO

leads them, and WHY their leaders do what they do,

it's likely NOT what they were told.

Some clearly think anyone not on their side of a 'manufactured divide'

is nothing more than some 'primary color philosophically' and BAD, because if it.

No finesses involved here, it's all or nothing, no gray regions or thoughtfulness allowed.

Calling someone a color as a negative, is not a rational attack on their politics,

it is as simplistic a reduction in terms as can be. But of course it uses the logic:

If they do not agree with my side 100% they are the enemy

because they agree agree with the other side in any way 1% an up.

If you are attacking some for being anti-red for specific reasons;

like much of the leadership, or obvious propaganda efforts or just plain hypocrisies,

and in turn call them yellow for having ANY reasons, then you are JUST AS BAD,

because you have created a us or them reduction in terms and logic.

This is a mind control / propaganda tactic and patently obvious to many,

but not so to all, and so it still can work on enough minds to be effective....

for a time.

Like P.T. Barumum said, "There's one born every minute." meaning suckers.

But it's also said

" You can fool some of the people all of the time,

but not most of the people all of the time.

Therein lies Thaksins problem and the Redshirts legacy problem,

when Thaksin is gone and more see what damage he's done,

the reds will truly be tarred for his actions, and their other 'laudible goals'

diminished for considerable times.

The problem is not grass roots reds, but the duplicity of too many red leaders

beholden to Thaksin largess, or hopeful for MORE pending his accent to power,

IF he gets the good luck. He is using the reds and it sad for those with good intent

for their fellow Thais, because it forever tars their movement with his deeds

and purchased actions of a few reds; such as Sae Dung, but not exclusively.

Edited January 23, 2010 by animatic

[ChiangMaiFun]

There is no question that I am much more sympathetic to the red shirts - I do not deny it... any sensible thinker would be but I am not one because I am a visitor here just like you - I am simply commenting on the debate. I just wish Thaksin did not lead it and I do not support any hint of violence towards the government...

although I understand it but you do not and therein lies a BIG problem because if you yellows do not understand or comprehend it then no change or compromise can happen and that leads to... we will have to wait ansd see and hope not violence - the ONLY thing to stop is an ELECTION! because then there would be no cause... but I feel you just don't 'get it'

"any sensible thinker would be but I am not one" I think you need some punctuation there!

Again ... I see you calling for elections when you admitted that the current government's election was proper.

Why, then would we need new elections before they were required? Oh yes, you answer that too by saying the reds are ignorant in the ways of parliamentary democracy. They didn't have the majority of the last elections and formed a coalition government. Samak was out .. but could have come back had Thaksin wanted him. Then Thaksin's Brother-in-law was elected --- and then he was out ---- and then our current PM was elected when small parties shifted alliegance (remember those small parties had said before the elections that they would NOT form a coalition government with PPP --- but they did)

So ... as you have stated in the past .... this government is legal. Spend your time teaching those reds around you about the basic nature of democracy and parliamentary democracy in particular. (1) If you get caught buying votes --- you are not practicing democracy (2) The people elect the MP's and not the PM

Teach them that ... and not to throw grenades and then they can wait for the next elections which could happen soon but will certainly happen in the next 3 years.

ahhh punctuation... how cute to smear an arguement with a lesson in grammer... how purile... but slightly endearing... so thanks

legality and morality are different - I know because I worked for one of the Magic Circle firms for years - complete tossers who would quote your 'legality' and crucify people and nations with a smile - probably bit like your smug smile - 'but it's legal'... it's BS

You are so AFRAID of elections - just read the posts -

'oh we don't need them'

'oh what good would it do'

'oh it's a coalition'

'oh we are democrats (jing, jing) but we don't like elections' haha

and all the rest 'oh you are Stooges, Thaksin apologists and Don't Understand Parliamentary Democracy'

and best? 'oh we are afraid those nasty guys will be back if the people can CHOOSE' because we are farang and know best

I was chatting to some Thai friends tonight and they were LIVID at some of the ignorant comemnts on here - they want an ELECTION and a chance to VOTE - there will be ne peace until that opportunity is givemn - foregt about the legaluities - sometimes the 'feeling' has to be taken account of - the people FOR the people - and some of the intellectual snobs on here just dont 'get it'

Hitler was legal after all... so is Mugabe... no correlation just commenting on 'legality'

you can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time

[ChiangMaiFun]

The general problem for some is lack of understanding,

for many others it is not being on the side that has power,

and never a chance of getting there. So they joined the side

that SAYS they can get into power. Some don't understand WHO

leads them, and WHY their leaders do what they do,

it's likely NOT what they were told.

Some clearly think anyone not on their side of a 'manufactured divide'

is nothing more than some 'primary color philosophically' and BAD, because if it.

No finesses involved here, it's all or nothing, no gray regions or thoughtfulness allowed.

Calling someone a color as a negative, is not a rational attack on their politics,

it is as simplistic a reduction in terms as can be. But of course it uses the logic:

If they do not agree with my side 100% they are the enemy

because they agree agree with the other side in any way 1% an up.

If you are attacking some for being anti-red for specific reasons;

like much of the leadership, or obvious propaganda efforts or just plain hypocrisies,

and in turn call them yellow for having ANY reasons, then you are JUST AS BAD,

because you have created a us or them reduction in terms and logic.

This is a mind control / propaganda tactic and patently obvious to many,

but not so to all, and so it still can work on enough minds to be effective....

for a time.

Like P.T. Barumum said, "There's one born every minute." meaning suckers.

But it's also said

" You can fool some of the people all of the time,

but not most of the people all of the time.

Therein lies Thaksins problem and the Redshirts legacy problem,

when Thaksin is gone and more see what damage he's done,

the reds will truly be tarred for his actions, and their other 'laudible goals'

diminished for considerable times.

The problem is not grass roots reds, but the duplicity of too many red leaders

beholden to Thaksin largess, or hopeful for MORE pending his accent to power,

IF he gets the good luck. He is using the reds and it sad for those with good intent

for their fellow Thais, because it forever tars their movement with his deeds

and purchased actions of a few reds; such as Sae Dung, but not exclusively.

Why do you keep posting in short sentances? just wondered - is it for effect? you're the only one - post like the rest of us - your posting take up 2x the space - thanks

[animatic]

The general problem for some is lack of understanding.....

Why do you keep posting in short sentances? just wondered - is it for effect? you're the only one - post like the rest of us - your posting take up 2x the space - thanks

Moderate dyslexia is one reason.

I have over 12,000 posts in an older forum and few bother with this line of comment.

I never will post in any way except as I can see and read my meanings the best.

And I won't apologize to anyone for insisting on my clarity of meaning by any means.

I tend to skip over huge blocks of text unless the poster is noted

for lots of excellent content like SteveMangino and one or two others.

I don't want to, but it tends to give headaches and cause bad attitude.

Actually I post in rather long sentences, and breaking them up

into comma or concept delineated sections makes the larger idea clearer.

how cute to smear an arguement with a lesson in grammer... how purile...

I guess you are in style attack mode tonight.

As I note you made no comment on my content, but did on my style.

If we all posted the same, ONE of us could just post everything for all of us. Boring much?

Edited January 23, 2010 by animatic

[ChiangMaiFun]

The general problem for some is lack of understanding.....

Why do you keep posting in short sentances? just wondered - is it for effect? you're the only one - post like the rest of us - your posting take up 2x the space - thanks

Moderate dyslexia is one reason.

I have over 12,000 posts in an older forum and few bother with this line of comment.

I never will post in any way except as I can see and read my meanings the best.

And I won't apologize to anyone for insisting on my clarity of meaning by any means.

I tend to skip over huge blocks of text unless the poster is noted

for lots of excellent content like SteveMangino and one or two others.

I don't want to, but it tends to give headaches and cause bad attitude.

Actually I post in rather long sentences, and breaking them up

into comma or concept delineated sections makes the larger idea clearer.

how cute to smear an arguement with a lesson in grammer... how purile...

I guess you are in style attack mode tonight.

As I note you made no comment on my content, but did on my style.

If we all posted the same, ONE of us could just post everything for all of us. Boring much?

'and read my meanings the best.

And I won't apologize to anyone for insisting on my clarity of meaning by any means.'

sorry

not

sure

I

get

that

weird...

[animatic]

Ah, what was it I was saying about lack of understanding....

Maybe best not to post just back from the night out; me thinks. Taking the pish at 1:30 am?

I have been working, and so am quite fresh minded.

Yes, easy to find people to be 'livid' at both sides of this philosophical Dunkirk

we call winter of discontent or is that incontinence, 2010 in Thailand.

Easier to find more people in Chaingmai down on TVF anti-Thaksin talk

than most anywhere in earth I expect. Safest bet in town.

Finding the dissenting voices speaking aloud would be the trick.

Edited January 23, 2010 by animatic

[rixalex]

- they want an ELECTION and a chance to VOTE - there will be ne peace until that opportunity is givemn - foregt about the legaluities - sometimes the 'feeling' has to be taken account of - the people FOR the people -

Somebody hit the moonshine last night.

"foregt about the legaluities "

Words of wisdom indeed. How apt.