Time Keeping In Football

[Sparkles]

There has been a lot of nonsense and misinformation on this forum ,and others ,and in the media,regarding teams ,or one team im particular receiving assistance from officials by extending the number of minutes played . I agree the time keeping is inconsistent but due more to human error or failure than deliberate actions.

In the game United v Leeds they were 5 subsitutions ,from memory in the second half , and several instances of Leeds players feigning or exagerating injury and time wasting . Nothing unusual about that all teams do it. From memory, again, only 4 minutes of time was added on when it should have been at least 6 .We all know Leeds hung on to win.

There is a very simple solution to this ongoing issue .You take the responsibilty of time keeping and evaluating time added on away from the referees and the fourth official. There is enough going on for them to concentrate on and the FA appoints official time keepers. Armed with astop watch their SOLE responsibilty is time nothing else.

Its been done with success in Rugby League and Union for as long as I can remember. The game is ended by a siren or hooter not a referee constantly looking at his watch when he should be concentrating on the action

Like video technology, again used succesfully by League and Union, football authorities ,be it FIFA or local leagues, are loath to try anything progressive. maybe they think they are upholding tradition but its stubborness does the game no favours. I used to wear Readers Digests as shin pads when I first stated playing in the 50's but thankfully we have moved on from there its a pity the authorities can't do likewise.

[nev]

Good post mate all this united bashing is nonsense.

I like the hooter system in the league and aussie rules in australia with a official time keeper.

[MSingh]

Good post mate all this united bashing is nonsense.

I like the hooter system in the league and aussie rules in australia with a official time keeper.

It's not Nev, in fact it makes complete sense as it seems time after time after time after time it's YOUR Manager mainly that brings up the issue with it, i haven't ever heard once Owen Coyle, Zola, Hodgson etc etc go on as much as Ferguson does about time keeping, have you honestly ??

Wouldn't it just be great if for once, just once in Football, we could accept that the Game if officiated by Human Beings & Human Beings, from time to time, make mistakes, albeit in this case, very, very few & just get on with it ??

[mrbojangles]

Good post mate all this united bashing is nonsense.

No it isn't

[Moonrakers]

The very term "united bashing is nonsense" is an oxymoron.

[Sparkles]

I'm not promoting United's cause, leave your club allegiance out of this discussion if possible.I only quoted tthe Leeds /United game as an example. Where they got 6 minutes from the other night I have no idea but it wasnt because of Fergusons prescence.If he had that much power Fletcher would have seen out 90 minutes. I'm calling for commonsense and moving out of the dark ages. Human beings do make mistakes thats sport but is that any reason the game cant progres.A timekeeper has only one thing to worry about and thats keeping time.He is also not pitch side, he is isolated in a box. As it stands 4 th officials are in constant dialogue with managers. Wenger in particular loves to engage with the 4th official and that official should be concentrating on whats happening on the field not justifying every decision that is made by the referee. There is never any dispute in Rugby League or Union about time keeping , have you ever wondered why ?

[rixalex]

Sparkles, is your proposal that the time is frozen when play is stopped, as in Rugby, or that the time when play is stopped is added up by this 4th official and then added at the end?

[Mosha]

From a Leeds fans point of view, Wes Brown was lucky not to get a 2nd yellow.

[MiG16]

As it stands 4 th officials are in constant dialogue with managers. Wenger in particular loves to engage with the 4th official and that official should be concentrating on whats happening on the field not justifying every decision that is made by the referee.

I was told their job is to calm the managers and keep the managers occupied from throwing abuse at the ref on field and distracting them

[MSingh]

I'm not promoting United's cause, leave your club allegiance out of this discussion if possible.I only quoted tthe Leeds /United game as an example. Where they got 6 minutes from the other night I have no idea but it wasnt because of Fergusons prescence.If he had that much power Fletcher would have seen out 90 minutes. I'm calling for commonsense and moving out of the dark ages. Human beings do make mistakes thats sport but is that any reason the game cant progres.A timekeeper has only one thing to worry about and thats keeping time.He is also not pitch side, he is isolated in a box. As it stands 4 th officials are in constant dialogue with managers. Wenger in particular loves to engage with the 4th official and that official should be concentrating on whats happening on the field not justifying every decision that is made by the referee. There is never any dispute in Rugby League or Union about time keeping , have you ever wondered why ?

Why do we need progress ??

Why does the Game need to move on ??

The Game is ok as it is, if the 4th Official calculated that the Stoppage time was to be 6 minutes, then it's 6 minutes..

Sorry Sparkles but changing this, changing that, getting different Technology involved etc, it's trying to stop debate, it's trying to stop talking points & i personally dont' wnat Football to turn into Rugby, i want Football to stay as it is, with mistakes here & there & overall, i'd just like people to accept the Game for what it is & get on with it without trying to tinker with it all of the time.

It's the greatest Game in the World with the most talking points, leave it alone..

[Sparkles]

Sparkles, is your proposal that the time is frozen when play is stopped, as in Rugby, or that the time when play is stopped is added up by this 4th official and then added at the end?

Well either as long as the correct stoppage time is played but I do prefer the latter. Having a time keeper has taken all disputes away in other forms of football and allowed officials to concentrate on administrating the rules of the game

[MSingh]

Sparkles, is your proposal that the time is frozen when play is stopped, as in Rugby, or that the time when play is stopped is added up by this 4th official and then added at the end?

Well either as long as the correct stoppage time is played but I do prefer the latter. Having a time keeper has taken all disputes away in other forms of football and allowed officials to concentrate on administrating the rules of the game

True but you do know that if what you are saying did get implemented, your lot would probably have 2 or 3 League Championships less than they currently have don't you ??

[Sparkles]

I'm not promoting United's cause, leave your club allegiance out of this discussion if possible.I only quoted tthe Leeds /United game as an example. Where they got 6 minutes from the other night I have no idea but it wasnt because of Fergusons prescence.If he had that much power Fletcher would have seen out 90 minutes. I'm calling for commonsense and moving out of the dark ages. Human beings do make mistakes thats sport but is that any reason the game cant progres.A timekeeper has only one thing to worry about and thats keeping time.He is also not pitch side, he is isolated in a box. As it stands 4 th officials are in constant dialogue with managers. Wenger in particular loves to engage with the 4th official and that official should be concentrating on whats happening on the field not justifying every decision that is made by the referee. There is never any dispute in Rugby League or Union about time keeping , have you ever wondered why ?

Why do we need progress ??

Why does the Game need to move on ??

The Game is ok as it is, if the 4th Official calculated that the Stoppage time was to be 6 minutes, then it's 6 minutes..

Sorry Sparkles but changing this, changing that, getting different Technology involved etc, it's trying to stop debate, it's trying to stop talking points & i personally dont' wnat Football to turn into Rugby, i want Football to stay as it is, with mistakes here & there & overall, i'd just like people to accept the Game for what it is & get on with it without trying to tinker with it all of the time.

It's the greatest Game in the World with the most talking points, leave it alone..

Well obviously at the end of the day its a matter of opinion. However if you polled all fans,players and officialas (impossible I know) there would be a few

minor alterations to the game.Its not trying to stifle debate its to correct anomolies.

Consider this in tennis, a very traditional sport ,there were consistent mistakes made on line calls ie human error they brought in technology (Hawk Eye ) end of problem. The best player won and officials were removed from being responsible for making huge mistakes .Is the game better for it ? an overwhelming yes.

Cricket had a similar problem almost impossible to correctly call some descions.They have introduced technology its working.

Football will not turn into Rugby, it wont stop discussion points and as you rightly say thats part of the enjoyment. If we had technology Mr Henry may not be going to the World Cup , countless goals where the ball has ,or has not, gone over the line, would be resolved etc etc. Correct times would be played in matches.

No one is more of traditionalist than me . I love the game I played for many years . And Ive done my time as a referee,coach and administaror .Im not an armchair critic but I am disappointed that the great game is in the hands of the likes of Blatter and Co who refuse to embrace any new ideas unless its their own.

Finally is tinkering with the game a negative, was constantly passing the ball back to the keeper a plus , no it was dead boring and negative ,one small improvement ,why not some more.

[MSingh]

I'm not promoting United's cause, leave your club allegiance out of this discussion if possible.I only quoted tthe Leeds /United game as an example. Where they got 6 minutes from the other night I have no idea but it wasnt because of Fergusons prescence.If he had that much power Fletcher would have seen out 90 minutes. I'm calling for commonsense and moving out of the dark ages. Human beings do make mistakes thats sport but is that any reason the game cant progres.A timekeeper has only one thing to worry about and thats keeping time.He is also not pitch side, he is isolated in a box. As it stands 4 th officials are in constant dialogue with managers. Wenger in particular loves to engage with the 4th official and that official should be concentrating on whats happening on the field not justifying every decision that is made by the referee. There is never any dispute in Rugby League or Union about time keeping , have you ever wondered why ?

Why do we need progress ??

Why does the Game need to move on ??

The Game is ok as it is, if the 4th Official calculated that the Stoppage time was to be 6 minutes, then it's 6 minutes..

Sorry Sparkles but changing this, changing that, getting different Technology involved etc, it's trying to stop debate, it's trying to stop talking points & i personally dont' wnat Football to turn into Rugby, i want Football to stay as it is, with mistakes here & there & overall, i'd just like people to accept the Game for what it is & get on with it without trying to tinker with it all of the time.

It's the greatest Game in the World with the most talking points, leave it alone..

Well obviously at the end of the day its a matter of opinion. However if you polled all fans,players and officialas (impossible I know) there would be a few

minor alterations to the game.Its not trying to stifle debate its to correct anomolies.

Consider this in tennis, a very traditional sport ,there were consistent mistakes made on line calls ie human error they brought in technology (Hawk Eye ) end of problem. The best player won and officials were removed from being responsible for making huge mistakes .Is the game better for it ? an overwhelming yes.

Cricket had a similar problem almost impossible to correctly call some descions.They have introduced technology its working.

Football will not turn into Rugby, it wont stop discussion points and as you rightly say thats part of the enjoyment. If we had technology Mr Henry may not be going to the World Cup , countless goals where the ball has ,or has not, gone over the line, would be resolved etc etc. Correct times would be played in matches.

No one is more of traditionalist than me . I love the game I played for many years . And Ive done my time as a referee,coach and administaror .Im not an armchair critic but I am disappointed that the great game is in the hands of the likes of Blatter and Co who refuse to embrace any new ideas unless its their own.

Finally is tinkering with the game a negative, was constantly passing the ball back to the keeper a plus , no it was dead boring and negative ,one small improvement ,why not some more.

You're right on the backpass for sure, but i am just worried abotu teh Game ( not necessarily for your Post Sparks ) overall & i personally just hope that if change is made, it is made to a minmimum as, as i said, we have the b est Game in the World & i'd HATE it to get spoiled.

[rixalex]

Finally is tinkering with the game a negative, was constantly passing the ball back to the keeper a plus , no it was dead boring and negative ,one small improvement ,why not some more.

Well put Sparky. Too many people hold onto old traditions dearly not for their value but just because it's what they are used to and anything new must be bad, just because it's new.

I for one am fed up with unjust results that could easily have been avoided. I don't care about keeping these mistakes in the game for the sake of having something to talk about. I don't want to be talking about this stuff.

Time to move on people and get with the times.

[alfieconn]

Finally is tinkering with the game a negative, was constantly passing the ball back to the keeper a plus , no it was dead boring and negative ,one small improvement ,why not some more.

Well put Sparky. Too many people hold onto old traditions dearly not for their value but just because it's what they are used to and anything new must be bad, just because it's new.

I for one am fed up with unjust results that could easily have been avoided. I don't care about keeping these mistakes in the game for the sake of having something to talk about. I don't want to be talking about this stuff.

Time to move on people and get with the times.

Considering singhy is a relatively young man he still lives in the dark ages, i understand when he plays football on Samui, he makes them play with a laced up ball, wears a string vest under his shirt and still puts dubbin on his boots .

[mrbojangles]

There's only one way to keep it all fair and above board. Remove Fergie's watch before kick off

[Jimjim]

No, I think you'd have to go so far as removing his eyes, ears and mouth to truly get the job done.

[carmine]

No, I think you'd have to go so far as removing his eyes, ears and mouth to truly get the job done.

How about telling him to keep his gob shut or he'll get a touchline ban for the rest of the season

[bkkjames]

What you don't know is that he is sponsored by a watch company and gets paid for showing it off to world wide tv audiences...

[rixalex]

They don't call Scotsmen canny for no reason.

[rijit]

Its not about not moving the game on, its about 'consistency' The amount of time added on varies from ref to ref and game to game. something needs to be sorted.The extra official would be workable for league and prem games but not for everyone else. 'Transparency and accountability' could be another help. During the game a sheet could be filled, after the game a copy could be handed to the teams explaining why only four minutes. The other thing that always seems inconsistent is the ten yard rule, refs measuring the ten yards by pacing it, ive seen that it can be as much as 50% out. And the way the ball moves the wall being 2 or 3 yards closer or further away 2/3 yrds can mean a goal or not, as the case maybe. A very easy and practical ans is to give the refs a digital or laser tape measure, could even be built into a whistle. in this day and age ,it shouldnt be difficult or expensive.

[rixalex]

The extra official would be workable for league and prem games but not for everyone else.

I agree but i don't think that's a reason not to use the idea. If hawk eye had to be used for every tennis competition played it would be unworkable also.

[Sparkles]

The extra official would be workable for league and prem games but not for everyone else.

I agree but i don't think that's a reason not to use the idea. If hawk eye had to be used for every tennis competition played it would be unworkable also.

To my knowledge Hawk Eye is only used in major tennis tournaments similar to crickets version being used in test matches and one dayers and 20/20.

Apart from football could you find 2 more games that go to greater lengths to uphold tradition more than tennis and cricket , only golf maybe.

Is it working for them ? ... a resounding yes. Anyone differing on that issue really has their head in the sand .

Think of football as a highly tuned sports car, it's engine needs minor adjustments from time to time to make it perform to its optimum level but its still the same sportscar.

[bkkjames]

It's seem SAF isn't the only one with a watch deal, check out Rafa's from last night. Nice piece