Just a few photos I took from yesterday.......The rally focused around Central World

and ran past Siam BTS.

Many of the businesses in the area were closed.

There is hope for OTB yet with such a gentlemanly discussion

of such a red hot topic.

pic 1

roughly 3000

pic 2

roughly 1500

pic 3

rougly 400

without deep thoughts

pic 1

roughly 3000

pic 2

roughly 1500

pic 3

rougly 400

without deep thoughts

I estimate each photo to be.......worth at least a thousand words.....nuf said....

If I may just say.

I have wanted to begin such a discussion on Thai politics in bedlam/OTB for sometime but I was concerned that it would degenerate into the typical "News forum"-esque non-debate.

This thread has not done so and appears to be in no danger of doing so. I'd love a proper debate on the matter with arguments from all sides without the need to resort to petty arguments and flaming.

I'd love to hear arguments from all sides and i personally am open to them.

If I may just say.

I have wanted to begin such a discussion on Thai politics in bedlam/OTB for sometime but I was concerned that it would degenerate into the typical "News forum"-esque non-debate.

This thread has not done so and appears to be in no danger of doing so. I'd love a proper debate on the matter with arguments from all sides without the need to resort to petty arguments and flaming.

I'd love to hear arguments from all sides and i personally am open to them.

Well said Moonrakers.....I have photographed and interviewed people from both sides and it seems like a classic struggle of ideas.

Both sides have concerns that must be addressed by future governments. Just a few words about what I believe is

happening now. After several days of shooting pics and talking to people they appear to be digging in for the long haul.

Setting up water supplys....bathrooms and showers.....leaving a lane open so that supplys and people can flow....

Expanding of the main stage area is also taking place in front of Central Plaza....More businesses were open in the

surrounding area as I think its dawning on many that this will be much like the PAD protest and go on and on....

The difference here is the stakes seem a bit higher as their presence in this important finacial area will likely

bring things to a head sooner rather than later.

If I may just say.

I have wanted to begin such a discussion on Thai politics in bedlam/OTB for sometime but I was concerned that it would degenerate into the typical "News forum"-esque non-debate.

This thread has not done so and appears to be in no danger of doing so. I'd love a proper debate on the matter with arguments from all sides without the need to resort to petty arguments and flaming.

I'd love to hear arguments from all sides and i personally am open to them.

Apparently occassional tourist's comments don't count.

Yes, worth pointing out if you assume the readers had not already digested that.

Perhaps I should make two posts each time; one normal, and one simplified......is that what you're sugesting?

I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you. I cut off endure's reply because the system wouldn't allow that many quotes. Anyway, now that you have replied it appears that you believe that readers "already digested" the value of infrastructure & roads but not that mobile phones were "trinkets". Otherwise, why post it? why? - because you are trying to belittle the reasons these people might feel the way they do. Do I remember correctly that you haven't actually lived in Thailand? Just visited once or twice? Curious for an occassional tourist to take sides in domestic politics.

btw - I don't care one way or the other about Thaksin. He was ousted 3 months before I had decided to move to Thailand and 11 months before I actually did. So I never experieced Thailand while he was in power so I have nothing to go by other than what I hear from people or read here. Since it's such a political hot potato I usually don't pay much attention to either side. Besides, it's their country, not mine. I was just a temporary resident for over 2 years.

Curious language to not pick a fight.

I suggest you re-read the OP, to which I have been responding all along. There is no belittling about it, just my take on the "whys' that the OP asks.

If I may just say.

I have wanted to begin such a discussion on Thai politics in bedlam/OTB for sometime but I was concerned that it would degenerate into the typical "News forum"-esque non-debate.

This thread has not done so and appears to be in no danger of doing so. I'd love a proper debate on the matter with arguments from all sides without the need to resort to petty arguments and flaming.

I'd love to hear arguments from all sides and i personally am open to them.

Apparently occassional tourist's comments don't count.

Should they? One of them should fly to BKK and speak in front of the protestors and ask them what they think. I'm sure they'd love to have a short-time tourist come tell them what they are doing wrong and how they should be living their lives.

Domestic politics are in some ways like domestic violence. If you don't have a horse in the race you're probably better off on the sidelines.

I have lived in Thailand for 20 plus years and still do not discuss politics with anybody but my wife.

We live in Isaan, near Udorn, and I know enough not to wear a yellow shirt in public. Red is the color up here.

The people in our village like Thaksin for several reasons. The 30 baht medical care, the money he gave to villages for local infrastructure and highway improvements are sometimes mentioned as his good deeds. The main reason people here seem to have liked Thaksin is because he did not appear to be ruled by the "educated, Bangkok elite". Frankly put, Isaan people are rather tired of being put down by the yellow shirts and those in Bangkok that sponsor them.

The people in Isaan are not ill educated bumpkins as some on this thread have indicated. They are hard working people that try to scratch a living out of the earth the best way they can. I admire many of them and have respect for their efforts.

I don't particularly like Thaksin but I believe the red shirts should have their day at the polling boxes. The yelow shirts seem to feel otherwise.

These are my opinions only and come from a long period of residency in Thailand, not an occasional visit.

Thanks for everyone who has posted and thanks for keeping it nice and civil.

This topic is important to me, as I am working on my senior thesis that I will use to help me get into grad school and while this is current (I study history) I feel that there is a connection between what has motivated the Red Shirts and past events. I am thinking that this protest might be similar to others played out before, like 1973, that are based in a divide between members of Thai society. This divide was supported, I believe, over the years by different dictators and all in the name of nationalism, fighting against communisms and gaining American support for their governments.

I know that nationalist movements in the 20th century has alienated many ethnic minorities and Thais outside Bangkok's central power. Many protest movements in Thai history were not anti-nationlaist, even if labeled so, and had workers rights or rural reform as their central platform. I know it seems that the Red Shirts are very loosely organized, but I am wondering a couple things.

So, in the opinion of those posting here, do the Red Shirts show signs of any anti-nationalist feeling? Does any one know what the demographics are of the movement? Rural, urban, students, workers? I know the news says mostly rural, but that to me is very vague, rural means can mean a lot of things.

Remember, I am trying to avoid value judgements. I want a better understanding to see if I can link this modern protest to ones in the past and make the argument that this is a continuations of unresolved issues.

Thanks all!!

chuckd, totally spot on imo. That is the feeling in my husbands family... he was corrupt yes, but so are the rest but he was at least making some effort to give something back unlike the rest who look after their own already full coffers & ignore & look down on the rural people.

Mil et all don't actually like thaksin, think he is a stirrer especially at the moment but he at least had some balls & did something for the people, who aren't stupid sheep, far from it actually.

That aid, from the chats I have with hubby I know he at least hopes that the reds drop thaksin & focus on getting back to the polls with a new, non thaksin puppet as leader.