Driving Without An Idp

[neverdie]

Scubabuddha,

I'd be interested in knowing more about you take on this statement,

"Katabeachbum: You are right about the 90 days, however, the 90 days in which visitors can drive on their home country license is not technically reset by a visa run. I saw that in another forum as well. The clock starts when you enter the first time. I know cops aren't enforcing that way. Anyway, technically (by law) we are residents so we now need a Thai license even if on a tourist visa."

I have a friend who spends time in LOS every year, sometimes he stays here up to 90 days and then goes elsewhere before coming back for a few more weeks or whatever then going home again.

Are you trying to suggest that his 90 days is calculated from his first visit to LOS....How would that be so? That would mean many tourists to thailand would be affected by that. Whats your source on that? Also keeping in mind, according to the rules (although different areas report different things) tourists cannot get a drivers licence here in Thailand and one of the things you need to get a drivers licence is a certicate of residency from either Immigration or Your Embassy and Immigration won't issue Residency Certificate for people on visas any shorter than 1 year.....that also includes people on certain non immigrant o visas (some of these require people to leave the country every 90 days).

[Rinrada]

For the sake of a couple of quid ..get one..if only for peace of mind..same as travel insurance.

I pay £75 a year (for both of us also covers to US )

It includes for Med Cover to £10M plus others like lost luggage,passports,dosh,Legal problems etc and valid for singe trips up to 60 days but can be negotiated to 12 months....as said peace of mind....

Incid I am also on my second 5 Year DL and only ever been a "toorist"

[LivinLOS]

Scubabuddha,

I'd be interested in knowing more about you take on this statement,

"Katabeachbum: You are right about the 90 days, however, the 90 days in which visitors can drive on their home country license is not technically reset by a visa run. I saw that in another forum as well. The clock starts when you enter the first time. I know cops aren't enforcing that way. Anyway, technically (by law) we are residents so we now need a Thai license even if on a tourist visa."

I have a friend who spends time in LOS every year, sometimes he stays here up to 90 days and then goes elsewhere before coming back for a few more weeks or whatever then going home again.

Are you trying to suggest that his 90 days is calculated from his first visit to LOS....How would that be so? That would mean many tourists to thailand would be affected by that. Whats your source on that? Also keeping in mind, according to the rules (although different areas report different things) tourists cannot get a drivers licence here in Thailand and one of the things you need to get a drivers licence is a certicate of residency from either Immigration or Your Embassy and Immigration won't issue Residency Certificate for people on visas any shorter than 1 year.....that also includes people on certain non immigrant o visas (some of these require people to leave the country every 90 days).

Yeah complex.. I mean so if I come in Jan, and then come back in July, the counter hasnt reset ?? At what point does enough time pass ??

I was always lead to believe it was any visit longer than 90 days, so would reset.

[ScubaBuddha]

LivinginKata:

Your home DL was denied because it had no picture. This is covered in the UN Conventions. And DL's have had pictures for 30-40 years. Are you really using an account from 30-40 years ago as somehow relevent today? When did you first come to Thailand?

Nope, I only got a photocard license from the UK a few years back.. Until then I had the old style paper one without picture.

In general I agree with your points, but you do export USA rules and situations and apply them globally when its not always that way.

Yeah I was going with my gut on that one. I am thinking LIK is American for some reason. If he is then I am right.

It's hard to believe that the UK was issueing DL's with no picture on them that recently, not that I doubt you. It makes sense actually. In Europe literally everyone has a passport and that is the primary form of ID. In America 30% have passports and so the DL has been adopted as the primary form of ID thus the picture appearing on them for much longer than I have been driving. It also helps that we are a car culture. About 90% of Americans have drivers licenses.

1959 California DL.

Did you guys even have electricity by then?

Edited March 28, 2010 by LivinginKata

[ScubaBuddha]

Scubabuddha,

I'd be interested in knowing more about you take on this statement,

"Katabeachbum: You are right about the 90 days, however, the 90 days in which visitors can drive on their home country license is not technically reset by a visa run. I saw that in another forum as well. The clock starts when you enter the first time. I know cops aren't enforcing that way. Anyway, technically (by law) we are residents so we now need a Thai license even if on a tourist visa."

I have a friend who spends time in LOS every year, sometimes he stays here up to 90 days and then goes elsewhere before coming back for a few more weeks or whatever then going home again.

Are you trying to suggest that his 90 days is calculated from his first visit to LOS....How would that be so? That would mean many tourists to thailand would be affected by that. Whats your source on that? Also keeping in mind, according to the rules (although different areas report different things) tourists cannot get a drivers licence here in Thailand and one of the things you need to get a drivers licence is a certicate of residency from either Immigration or Your Embassy and Immigration won't issue Residency Certificate for people on visas any shorter than 1 year.....that also includes people on certain non immigrant o visas (some of these require people to leave the country every 90 days).

Firstly, I will say that there are plenty of accounts of people getting Thai DL's on tourist visas and other visas less than a year. (like Rinrada above) As I said before there is an exception to every rule.

RE:

Are you trying to suggest that his 90 days is calculated from his first visit to LOS....How would that be so? That would mean many tourists to thailand would be affected by that.

Come on neverdie, don't be silly. I think you understood that I wasn't referring to a tourist that comes twice a year.

The easy answer is he is not a resident. He is a visitor. He doesn't "live" here, he visits then leaves back to his resident country. Visa runners have established residency, may have a rental contract, maybe their kids go to school here, maybe they have bills sent to an address which they live, all evidence of residency. In terms of drivers licenses, police can use any of these things determine visa runners are residents even without immigration allowing them a resident letter or the Land Transport Department allowing them a Thai DL (which they do as we have seen). It is a bit of a catch 22 and there is a gray area there for sure. As you know there has traditionally been nothing to prevent people from staying here on endless visa runs, although in the last year or so they are counting successive tourist visas and the non-visa 30-day entry stamps and telling people they can not get anymore, plus they have changed land boarders to 15 day stays from 30. My point being that just because the law allows people to stay here as a "long stay tourist" doesn't mean they are going to fit into either of the categories of "tourist less than 90 days may drive on license/IDP from home" or the "resident who must obtain a Thai drivers license" It appears to me that due to the great numbers of people in that "in between" category, the police in practice have fallen back on simply the tourist visa as determining factor as to whether you need a Thai DL or not.

We could sit here all night and give examples of things we know are laws that the police of this province or that have interpreted their own way, or disregard all together. Look at redplates, helmets, samlors. The list goes on.

As for sources...I see I have a lot of doubters. I have done my own research but I will look into finding what I have said written somewhere. As I said the English section of the LTD and RTP websites are down. I have read it and I will find it. This is pretty much how every country in the world does it.

[ScubaBuddha]

Yeah complex.. I mean so if I come in Jan, and then come back in July, the counter hasnt reset ??

If you are a resident of Thailand, then no it does not reset. You need a Thai DL. If you are a visitor/tourist then yes, it does. See my last post on this. Apparently I didn't make that clear. My apologies.

[LivinginKata]

LivinginKata:

Your home DL was denied because it had no picture. This is covered in the UN Conventions. And DL's have had pictures for 30-40 years. Are you really using an account from 30-40 years ago as somehow relevent today? When did you first come to Thailand?

Yeah I was going with my gut on that one. I am thinking LIK is American for some reason. If he is then I am right.

My UK license was issued in 1978 and is valid until 2019. 30 years back the UK still did not issue DLs with photo. So your 30 - 40 years statement is not correct. I don't know when the UK started the new photo style DLs. The incident I referred to happened about 12 years ago. As far as I know, and from information I have read on the internet, recently, a home DL is not valid in Thailand without a supporting IDP.

You have all been discussing a 90 day 'rule' for tourists as if that rule really exists. I have yet to see any supporting evidence for such a rule. So let's not confuse any folks reading this topic with just 'hearsay' information.

I will research this issue more with the Phuket DVLC office and if I find any Thai law or regulation then I will publish it here.

[neverdie]

Come on neverdie, don't be silly. I think you understood that I wasn't referring to a tourist that comes twice a year.

The easy answer is he is not a resident. He is a visitor. He doesn't "live" here, he visits then leaves back to his resident country. Visa runners have established residency, may have a rental contract, maybe their kids go to school here, maybe they have bills sent to an address which they live, all evidence of residency. In terms of drivers licenses, police can use any of these things determine visa runners are residents even without immigration allowing them a resident letter or the Land Transport Department allowing them a Thai DL (which they do as we have seen). It is a bit of a catch 22 and there is a gray area there for sure. As you know there has traditionally been nothing to prevent people from staying here on endless visa runs, although in the last year or so they are counting successive tourist visas and the non-visa 30-day entry stamps and telling people they can not get anymore, plus they have changed land boarders to 15 day stays from 30. My point being that just because the law allows people to stay here as a "long stay tourist" doesn't mean they are going to fit into either of the categories of "tourist less than 90 days may drive on license/IDP from home" or the "resident who must obtain a Thai drivers license" It appears to me that due to the great numbers of people in that "in between" category, the police in practice have fallen back on simply the tourist visa as determining factor as to whether you need a Thai DL or not.

We could sit here all night and give examples of things we know are laws that the police of this province or that have interpreted their own way, or disregard all together. Look at redplates, helmets, samlors. The list goes on.

As for sources...I see I have a lot of doubters. I have done my own research but I will look into finding what I have said written somewhere. As I said the English section of the LTD and RTP websites are down. I have read it and I will find it. This is pretty much how every country in the world does it.

scubbabuddha,

I wasnt trying to be silly, I was asking a legit question of you, based on what you had written. Perhaps if you re-read what I wrote you would also see that I'm talking about a second case that I know of, that being of a person on a non-immigrant O visa (Im fairly sure 'O' is the cateogry that has to cross a border every 90 days). Anyway Immigration wont issue him with a residency certificate because they say he needs to hold a year long visa, which I argued was a year visa but Immigration response was it only allows 3 months stay at a time.

So without the certificate, the thai land transport dept wont issue a licence. I see that some people have obtained certificates from their embassy, perhaps that would work for getting him a DL, will have to look into that.

Anyway, I can see you have done a fair bit of research looking into the issue, I'm sorry you find that my questions are below you.

[billythehat]

LivinginKata:

Your home DL was denied because it had no picture. This is covered in the UN Conventions. And DL's have had pictures for 30-40 years. Are you really using an account from 30-40 years ago as somehow relevent today? When did you first come to Thailand?

Yeah I was going with my gut on that one. I am thinking LIK is American for some reason. If he is then I am right.

My UK license was issued in 1978 and is valid until 2019. 30 years back the UK still did not issue DLs with photo. So your 30 - 40 years statement is not correct. I don't know when the UK started the new photo style DLs. The incident I referred to happened about 12 years ago. As far as I know, and from information I have read on the internet, recently, a home DL is not valid in Thailand without a supporting IDP.

You have all been discussing a 90 day 'rule' for tourists as if that rule really exists. I have yet to see any supporting evidence for such a rule. So let's not confuse any folks reading this topic with just 'hearsay' information.

I will research this issue more with the Phuket DVLC office and if I find any Thai law or regulation then I will publish it here.

A few notes on the UK photocard driver's license for all you 'young at heart' boys.

Photo licences were first issued in July 1998. Unlike the old paper items, the new photocard license is only valid for 10 years, after which it must renewed - for a fee, naturally...(17.50 squid the last time I changed mine.)

Also, causing some confusion, is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version. Just below the driver name on the front of the photo card licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered. Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means. The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back, which states that '4b', means 'licence valid to'. Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday...mmmmm....

Note that insurance companies stipulate that you must possess a current license to be covered – even though you registered to hold one until you are a 70 year old duffer. For IDP you will need to send (amongst others) details of your valid UK driver's license to obtain such.

Taking the above dates into account, as an example, he has either recently renewed his UK DL or he is 70 years young in 2019.

[LivinginKata]

Taking the above dates into account, as an example, he has either recently renewed his UK DL or he is 70 years young in 2019.

Oh dear... I was just waiting for some bright spark to work that out ...

[keestha]

Confusing. There are lots of tourists renting cars who only have their home country DL. In case of an accident, would it really make a difference if the home country DL is written in English or not? I am seeing that a Dutch DL for instance is a an ID card type of thing, the only English text on it is "drivers licence".

Did anybody come across real examples of foreign tourists holding only a home country DL, maybe from a non English speaking country, getting into insurance trouble after having an accident?

[funlovinkid]

Ok...lots going on here....I'll do my best to sort this all out. Information concerning IDP's is very confusing. It's not cut and dry as some would like to think. There are different requirements depending on what country you are coming from and going to, and different requirements whether you are a resident or a visitor to that country. There is a lot of bad information out there often spread by people trying to get other people to buy a scam IDP/IDL.

I will also preface this with the following: You will find an exception to every law, experience, rule, and guideline quoted here. This is Thailand and every province, cop, insurance carrier, and day of the week is different from the next.

OP: (That's you, soil) Unless there is an automobile association office at the airport, you will not be able to get a real IDP there. I am curious what you mean by "it" when you say "it" will be closed. What is "it" exactly? Are you talking about a Thai airport or UK?

First, a bit on legal vs. illegal IDP's:

In most if not all western countries, including the states, the UK, Canada and Austrailia, ligitimate IDP's are only legally issued by automobile associations. There are lots of illegitimate/scam IDP's for sale out there. See the banner ad in this thread which says "International Drivers Document" for an example of an illegitimate IDP. Having said that, most police don't know or care if it is a legitimate or illegitimate IDP, and there is apparently no law preventing unscrupulous people from selling them as long as long as they are careful about the wording in the descriptions. Despite their illegitimacy, in practice these IDP's often end up working just fine for the users because your average cop/insurance person/rental car employee doesn't know that much about UN Conventions on Road Traffic. So why not get an illigitimate IDP then? Because these illegitimate IDP's cost several times more than the legitimate ones, thus making them a scam really. Why pay 3 to 10x more for something that may get rejected when it is discovered as fraudulent later on?

And in case the OP or others aren't aware, an IDP is simply a translation of your resident country's valid drivers license into several languages as agreed to by most counties through various UN Conventions. An IDP must be kept with your UK license and presented with it when requested by police. It is still the UK license that allows you to drive legally in a foreign country. An IDP is a paper booklet shaped more like a passport than an ID card. Any business offering you a pretty shiny ID card with your picture on it along with your IDP is trying to sell you a fraudulent IDP.

LivinginKata:

Your home DL was denied because it had no picture. This is covered in the UN Conventions. And DL's have had pictures for 30-40 years. Are you really using an account from 30-40 years ago as somehow relevent today? When did you first come to Thailand?

Also, LivinginKata, there are lots of problems with the quotes you provided:

Firstly, your quoted text containing the statement: "An international driver's license is accepted in Thailand. A foreign license holds no weight here." is from here: http://www.asiatradingonline.com/thaidriving.htm. I have dealt with asiatradingonline before. The information contained there should be considered dubious at best. I had a very bad experience buying from them and have since found others that did as well. Information from that site should be taken with a grain of salt. Notice that the line above states they used to provide a link to what turned out to be a bogus IDP company. Kudos for them taking down the link, but realize that that page was originally written to get people to follow the link. It's not clear if those phone numbers in the same paragraph are for getting an IDP for you Thai license or what. The information on that page is vague, contradictory not credible. They use the term "international drivers license" numerous times, which makes no sense as their is no such thing. I think they are referring to the "international drivers permit" but I am not sure.

Now, after what I just wrote about there being no such thing as IDL's, this next bit might seem contradictory, but it's not.

Whoever wrote that line, "An international driver's license is accepted in Thailand. A foreign license holds no weight here." probably didn't understand that they were contradicting themselves. What most people don't realize, and what the illegitimate IDP touts don't want you to know is that because our UK, American, Canadian, Austrailian etc, etc drivers license's are already in English and contain a photo, they are already considered international drivers licenses i.e. no IDP is needed in most cases. That is why the cops always accept them with no IDP. And this is what is meant by "International Drivers Licenses are accepted." This makes sense because if your DL is already in English and already has a photo of you, why on earth would you need a translation document (the IDP) translating into 10 languages, non of which are Thai?

The second line: "A foreign license holds no weight here." may be true, if they are referring to residents not visitors. Although, when I got my Thai DL, I had a current California DL valid for both car (class "C") and motorbike (class "M"). I was asked to bring in a printout of the California DMV website page which describes what is class C and class M. That way I didn't have to sit for the written test or take the driving test. I would hardly consider that "no weight."

As a side note, Thailand does not differentiation between a 125cc motorbike and a 1400cc big bike.

Katabeachbum: You are right about the 90 days, however, the 90 days in which visitors can drive on their home country license is not technically reset by a visa run. I saw that in another forum as well. The clock starts when you enter the first time. I know cops aren't enforcing that way. Anyway, technically (by law) we are residents so we now need a Thai license even if on a tourist visa. If the police determine you are a resident, and still using your home license even if you have an IDP, they could technically give you a ticket.

As far as needing an IDP or Thai license for insurance claims, I think the jury is still out on that one. It may depend on the company. There are accounts from both sides. I submit testimony of Thaivisa member Bubba:

My insurance policy has a clause that states that only a "valid drivers license" is required for the class of vehicle insured. After inquiring, I got it in writing that this includes foreign licenses. And just to verify that whilst driving on a foreign license, my car was smashed by an uninsured pickup with my repair bill being 24,000 baht. My insurance company sent their adjuster out, he made out a report, and I was compensated fully.

The police officer taking the report didn't have a problem with my lack of a Thai license either.

In terms of how DL's are dealt with in practice, I echo the others experiences. I first came here in 2001 and never bothered getting a Thai DL until last year. I have been through lots of police checkpoints, gotten a ticket for no helmet, and my valid California DL with no IDP was accepted each time without question. I have rented bikes, cars, and purchased, but thankfully never had to use 1st class 3rd party insurance and a Thai DL or IDP was never asked for.

Here is another scam IDP company local to us here in Phuket. Not sure how this company stays in business. I guess there are enough suckers out there.

http://phuketdir.com/intlicense/

Summery:

Do you need an IDP in Thailand?

For driving or renting cars or motorbikes:

Technically: Yes and No. Technically you can drive on your home country's valid license until your tourist visa or 30 day entry stamp expires or until you establish residency, whichever comes first. Having an IDP does not change anything with respect to the 90 days. However, it should be noted that there is the occasional report of a Thai police officer asking for an international license or permit. If it is clear to the cop that the foreigner is a resident and does not yet have a Thai license, you may be in trouble. If the foreigner is on a tourist visa, I believe this to be an attempt by the cop to collect tea money, or the cop is stupid. Likely both.

In Practice: No you do not need an IDP in Thailand, but having it doesn't hurt. Police almost always accept the foreign license alone (and sometimes Blockbuster Video cards) with seemingly no time limit.

For insurance claims in event of accident:

It depends. Check with your provider. It's possible and IDP is needed but it is equaly posible that a Thai DL is needed. There does seem to be some evidence through hearsay that an IDP is needed, but I have never been asked to show proof of any license when getting car insurance, and others have reported being in accidents while on a foreign license with no IDP and it made no difference.

If you have the time and you want a little more peace of mind, go ahead and get a legitimate IDP at home if you want . You'll probably never use it in Thailand. If you plan on staying long in Thailand, get a Thai DL. It has many other valuable uses besides a DL.

Since we keep getting the same questions here, I will try to provide some more concrete sources of information as to the actual laws. As I said the English section of both the RTP and the LTD are down. I think we are all pretty clear now how it works in practice, or "on the ground" as LivinLos said, but it would be nice to know have a concrete source of the actual law.

Scubabuddha: how do you define "resident"? Your commentary above is extremely helpful, except I'm not sure how to interpret it in my particular case. I have a valid California DL, but am living in LOS on a retirement visa. I don't have formal "resident" status, which is something I understand must be applied for, above and beyond my usual process of getting annual 1-year extensions on my original non-immigrant visa and sending in the 90-day reports. My last entry into Thailand was in October 2010, more than 90 days ago.

I plan to travel to Isaan soon, and rent a car while I'm there. Based on what you say above, should I get a Thai DL beforehand, in order to be legally covered by insurance? My biggest concern is being denied coverage in the event of an accident. Thanks for any advice you might have on this!

[katabeachbum]

Scubabuddha: how do you define "resident"? Your commentary above is extremely helpful, except I'm not sure how to interpret it in my particular case. I have a valid California DL, but am living in LOS on a retirement visa. I don't have formal "resident" status, which is something I understand must be applied for, above and beyond my usual process of getting annual 1-year extensions on my original non-immigrant visa and sending in the 90-day reports. My last entry into Thailand was in October 2010, more than 90 days ago.

I plan to travel to Isaan soon, and rent a car while I'm there. Based on what you say above, should I get a Thai DL beforehand, in order to be legally covered by insurance? My biggest concern is being denied coverage in the event of an accident. Thanks for any advice you might have on this!

being here more than 90 days and on a permit to stay longer than 90 days you definately need Thai DL to be sure Insurance will cover you. With a valid Calif DL with picture, DLT will issue you a Thai DL after passing reaction test and colortest and watching an hours movie. 160 baht plucc 100 baht for the photo as I recall

Docs needed,

medical from any Thai doctor/clinick, 100 baht at most clinicks

passport copy including permit to stay

certificate of residence issued by Immigration, 300 baht in Phuket

photo not needed as taken by DLT

[funlovinkid]

being here more than 90 days and on a permit to stay longer than 90 days you definately need Thai DL to be sure Insurance will cover you. With a valid Calif DL with picture, DLT will issue you a Thai DL after passing reaction test and colortest and watching an hours movie. 160 baht plucc 100 baht for the photo as I recall

Docs needed,

medical from any Thai doctor/clinick, 100 baht at most clinicks

passport copy including permit to stay

certificate of residence issued by Immigration, 300 baht in Phuket

photo not needed as taken by DLT

Many thanks!

[Nawak]

Time to get a Thai drivers license............

So as to not waste a whole day, can any members tell me exactly what I need to take to the Department of Motor Vehicles (pictures, documents, etc.) and also where the building is in Phuket Town? Is it near Immigration or the Labor Department building?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

Been quite a few topics in the past. Quick search ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Driving-Test...driving+license

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...&CODE=mod#X

The instructions I got from the Department of Motor Vehicles in Chiang Mai last month to get the thai driver license. I got the licenses for both car and motorbike in less than 2 hours.

[Felt 35]

Below is my personal experience with how you eventuelly can use your National and International Driving license to get a Thai driving license. The documents needed from within Thailand are not highlighted.

Probably some differences from Country to Country but usually it have been like this, at least where I come from. If you plan to travel to Thailand and stay for a while. Before you travel take your National driving license go to the nearest office to the National Automobile organization. Show them the National license and they will issue an International driving license valid for one year.

When you arrive in Thailand and want to apply for your Thai driving license bring the International driving license + all the other required documents and you will be issued a Thai license.

Nowadays there is another option especially for people living here, but again it can probably differ from one Embassy to another, but below are the latest regarding Thai driving license from my own Embassy:

If one is in Thailand for up to three months and intend to travel with your own or rented motorized vehicle you should have an international driver's license. If you have been here longer than three months you should get a Thai driver's license. To get a Thai license you must contact the Embassy to get issued an authorized translation of your National license to English language. One must then go to the Thai Government (Department of Land Transport) in order to have issued a Thai driver's license. One cannot use National temporary driving permissions to achieve International or a Thai driver's license.

In between is of course the option to take the Thai license by theoretical and practical test as most Thais do and many foreigners. I personally would recommend that if for nothing else than an amazing experience. I did that myself 12-13 years ago. That time it was no 5 year license for foreigners and my license expired when spending the best part of the spring and summer in Europe already the year after. Next license I got with bringing with me the International driving license.

[Madivad]

Thanks for the document, I have seen similar things like this before, but I have a question as to the requirement to have 2 copies for everything if you want both a car and bike. I have also heard you need an original report from the doctor for your health. Does this mean I would need TWO ORIGINAL reports from the doctor? Or would one and photocopy suffice?

[LivinginKata]

Thanks for the document, I have seen similar things like this before, but I have a question as to the requirement to have 2 copies for everything if you want both a car and bike. I have also heard you need an original report from the doctor for your health. Does this mean I would need TWO ORIGINAL reports from the doctor? Or would one and photocopy suffice?

Yes, one set of documents for each licence. So long as you take an original medical cert for inspection, then the copy is accepted for the 2nd licence. Same for the Immigration document (residency).

[Madivad]

Cool, thanks

[ScubaBuddha]

Scubabuddha: how do you define "resident"? Your commentary above is extremely helpful, except I'm not sure how to interpret it in my particular case. I have a valid California DL, but am living in LOS on a retirement visa. I don't have formal "resident" status, which is something I understand must be applied for, above and beyond my usual process of getting annual 1-year extensions on my original non-immigrant visa and sending in the 90-day reports. My last entry into Thailand was in October 2010, more than 90 days ago.

I plan to travel to Isaan soon, and rent a car while I'm there. Based on what you say above, should I get a Thai DL beforehand, in order to be legally covered by insurance? My biggest concern is being denied coverage in the event of an accident. Thanks for any advice you might have on this!

How I define "resident" is irrelevant. It's how the Thai government defines it.

But first I need to make one point: Residency is very different than "permanent residency" which is what you are talking about when you say it is something you need to apply for. PR is a step towards becoming a Thai citizen. Both PR and citizenship are very rarely granted. It has been a few years since anyone has obtained PR here in Phuket. PR is not relevant to this conversation about drivers licenses.

Every non-Thai citizen in Thailand falls into one of two categories. Resident(i.e. expat) or visitor/tourist. There is no application process for residency. Residency simply occurs, and can be established by police/government officials in many ways. What kind of visa you have, if you have a work permit, are getting bills in your name to your home, own a condo, enroll your children in school, for example.

Whether you need a Thai DL or not is pretty simple. If you are a visitor/tourist, then you can use your DL from home. If you are a resident, then you need a Thai DL. If your current DL from "home" is in English and has a photo on it, then it qualifies and is accepted as an international license. No international drivers permit (IDP) is required, but it doesn't hurt. (An IDP is just a paper translation of your current valid drivers license into several languages, although not Thai per various UN Road Traffic Conventions. Beware of bogus companies offering IDPs. There are many, especially online. Usually auto clubs or the government itself are the only ones sanctioned to do this)

In your specific case, since you are a retiree and are living here, you are considered a resident and need to have a Thai DL to drive legally. On the ground, 99% of the time your valid California license will be accepted at check points whether you are a tourist or a resident. The average street cop is not going to investigate whether you have kids enrolled in school here. As far as renting a car, you should have no problem being able to rent a car. Tourists rent cars here all the time without a Thai DL. Be sure to ask before renting. However, your concern about being covered in an accident is valid. Even if the rental car company says it's OK to rent in the California DL a problem may arise if you get a particularly conscientious claims adjuster who tries to claim that you are a resident and are thus not properly licensed. This can also happen if you get into an accident in your own car or bike.

The good news is getting a Thai DL is quite easy when you already have a valid foreign license with your picture on it. Many European licenses have drawings of what kind of vehicle can be operated by the licensee. California denotes a car license with a small "Class C" written in the corner and "Class M1" for motorcycle, etc. The Thai LTD won't understand this and will ask you to print out the DMV webpage that describes the classes, so do this before you visit the LTD and you will not have to sit for the written test or take the driving test, only the color, reaction, and possibly a depth perception test. Requirements seem to vary from LTD to LTD, so be prepared for that. Katabeachbum mentions an hour long movie. If so, then that is new. 18 months ago I didn't have to watch any movie when I got a Thai DL using my California DL.

[ScubaBuddha]

Nowadays there is another option especially for people living here, but again it can probably differ from one Embassy to another, but below are the latest regarding Thai driving license from my own Embassy:

One cannot use National temporary driving permissions to achieve International or a Thai driver's license.

I believe your embassy is giving you incorrect information.

You can in fact use your valid national DL from home to obtain a Thai DL. Your home DL either needs to be in English and have the pictures of the vehicles the licensee is licensed to drive, or you will need to bring a printout from your home DMV in English describing the codes used to denote what class of vehicle you can operate (i.e. class c and m as I described in the last post) or, if your national DL is not in English, as I gather yours is not, then you need either an International Drivers Permit (IDP) (again, and IDP is just a translation of the information contained in your National DL) issued against your national DL, or the translation from your embassy which you mentioned earlier. Take these to the Thai DLT with the other documents needed as outlined in the earlier posts, and you will not have to sit for the written test (actually on computer) or take the driving test.