Why Do You Stay?

[ray23]

With this recent guilty verdict of the The Thai Policemen a virtual avalanche, of negatives about the Thia court system, was unleashed. Some of these appeared to be based on personal experience, as opposed to rumor.

The center of the comments revolved about the number of farrangs killed over the years, lots and lots of stories. Really made it sound like it was open season on tourist and expats. I would assume that the comment's were put together in good faith. However, I noticed one individual, an expat who has lived here for 20 years. The burning question in mind is why do you stay if it is that unsafe and you have no hope of justice if a loved one is killed by a Thai and specifically a Thai policeman.

Why do you stay?

[Jai Dee]

The burning question in mind is why do you stay if it is that unsafe and you have no hope of justice if a loved one is killed by a Thai and specifically a Thai policeman.

Why do you stay?

I understand and appreciate all the negativity surrounging this issue, but I ask myself this question... "What are the chances of this happening to me?"

Evaluation of any situation will result in a decision... the more experienced you are, the more thorough and educated your decision making ability will be.

And every decision you make will have a result, negative or positive, anticipated or not, that may or may not affect the next decision you make, given a similar situation.

Each to their own... and 'up to you"...

[HarryHacker]

Its also naïve to think there are not injustices, corruption and negativity in the Western, so called 1st world.

[Ajarn]

I stay because it's where I made a life for myself, and because it's home. Got to look at the realities, true, but it's all part of an over-all balance of many things. Thailand simply works for me.

[duke69]

Its also naïve to think there are not injustices, corruption and negativity in the Western, so called 1st world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, there is much more injustice in the US than in Thailand.

What should the wife of the Italian agent say when the US soldier who killed him was found not guilty??

What should the victims in Iraq jails say, when the female soldier was sentenced only to few months??

come on guys, don't come here to teach us how to pee!!!

[thymode91]

I am working and I love to stay here! I'd found a great deal to stay and the second things is Thailand is not so worst as other think. Everywhere in the world may happen this kind of crime or even worse than we have in here.

We have to accept the truth and the handicap of each individuals.

[duke69]

also because many tourists play with danger here in Thailand ......

looking for troubles.

If you stay away from drugs, prostitution, gambling and respect the culture of Thai people, then this place is safer than Manhattan!!!

[ray23]

The burning question in mind is why do you stay if it is that unsafe and you have no hope of justice if a loved one is killed by a Thai and specifically a Thai policeman.

Why do you stay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand and appreciate all the negativity surrounging this issue, but I ask myself this question... "What are the chances of this happening to me?"

Evaluation of any situation will result in a decision... the more experienced you are, the more thorough and educated your decision making ability will be.

And every decision you make will have a result, negative or positive, anticipated or not, that may or may not affect the next decision you make, given a similar situation.

Each to their own... and 'up to you"...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good answer Jai Dee, I agree with all that you said and try not to put myself in those positions that could result in harm, in this country or anywhere else.

What I don't undesrstand is how anyone would live here for 20 years with such a negative mind set about the country.

There is a tremendious turmol about this case and maybe they are right. I don't know. I do know this from personal experience, the majority of murder victims don't deserve to be killed, it is usually something stupid that causes it, coupled with alchohol or drugs and I mean on the part the killer not the victims, although that coud very well be in action as well.

Does anyone still remember Charles Manson, I had the great pleasure of meeting his little group, not nice people. Were any of those premediated murders put to death?

Is some of that group out walking around the streets today?

Did that happen in Thailand?

I just used that as an example that I think everyone could identify with.

Maybe a better one would have been O.J. I really believe he was innocent (NOT) did that happen in Thailand?

Can you be sitting in your living room watching T.V in South Central L.A. and be shot from a stray bullet, happens all the time. Do you really think someone is going to jail and serve time for it.?

Can you be a random victim of a car jacking in the states?

I understand that because this man is a cop, he should be held to a higher standard. But Thailand is not the only place with bad cops.

I just got an e-mail from Ex in the Palm Springs area of California asking me if I knew a particular cop there, seems he just killed his entire family and then killed himself.

The fear is that this cop would get special teatment here, I assure you he would, in the states, a cop would not be housed in prison with the general population.

Will this guy get paroled here, I don't know, but in the states eventually he probably would.

I don't know anywhere where the community is guarenteed a safe life or the justice system is perfect.

I stay because it offers me a better life here in my retirement than I think I can get elsewhere. If I find somewhere better then I have here then we are going to have a heck of a moving sale. But , I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not as negative as some, if I were, it would be eay to find that other place and the sale would be on.

Thanks for all the reponses after reading that thread I think I just needed a reminder of why I'm here. This is the baest part of my life so far and I found here in Thailand.

Edited May 27, 2005 by ray23

[Jai Dee]

Thanks for all the reponses after reading that thread I think I just needed a reminder of why I'm here. This is the baest part of my life so far and I found here in Thailand.

Me too Ray... sometimes we all need a little reminder of the good and bad in everything... balancing your perspective and your actions and reactions to find your own happiness can happen in Thailand as it can anywhere in the world...

Chok dee.

[HarryHacker]

Thanks for all the reponses after reading that thread I think I just needed a reminder of why I'm here. This is the baest part of my life so far and I found here in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too Ray... sometimes we all need a little reminder of the good and bad in everything... balancing your perspective and your actions and reactions to find your own happiness can happen in Thailand as it can anywhere in the world...

Chok dee.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely, sometimes living and working here life can become so exasperating, sometimes I want to bang my head against the wall, but on the other hand there are so many plus points that far outweigh the negativity.

I count myself very, very fortunate to work and live here!

[chownah]

There are no guarantees in life...no guarantee that you will live even one minute longer!!!.....really....any second you could be dead.....absolutely no guarantees! It is the same everywhere in the world.....everywhere!

I've been in some fairly questionable situations in my life and have never had a really bad thing happen to me....maybe I've just been lucky at times but part of my good luck is to recognize when the situation is a bit iffy and when it it to be extremely aware of my surroundings and who is where and what their mood is. I guess I have developed a sense of when its time to go....as in get the heck out of there!! If you haven't developed this sense then its better that you avoid iffy circumstances altogether.....example: if you haven't developed the sense of when it is time to go in a hurry then don't stay out drinking until 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning in Thailand with strangers who are getting really drunk with only the stranger's friends around.

Edited May 27, 2005 by chownah

[Thomas_Merton]

There are no guarantees in life...no guarantee that you will live even one minute longer!!!.....really....any second you could be dead.....absolutely no guarantees!  It is the same everywhere in the world.....everywhere!

Could not agree with you more. I would even take this statement a step futher: the only thing we know with certainty is that we will die.

I've been in some fairly questionable situations in my life and have never had a really bad thing happen to me....maybe I've just been lucky at times but part of my good luck is to recognize when the situation is a bit iffy and when it it to be extremely aware of my surroundings and who is where and what their mood is.  I guess I have developed a sense of when its time to go....as in get the heck out of there!!  If you haven't developed this sense then its better that you avoid iffy circumstances altogether.....example:  if you haven't developed the sense of when it is time to go in a hurry then don't stay out drinking until 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning in Thailand with strangers who are getting really drunk with only the stranger's friends around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Danes call this having "situations fornemmelse" - a feeling for the situation - an advanced version of being "street-wise".

The problem is, many of these backpackers are not in the least street-wise, often coming from closeted, secure middle class backgrounds in the west.

Perhaps tragedies like this have some purpose if they force the naive to realise; travelling around the world can be very dangerous and they must take care.

[kreon]

in the last 35 years i've tripped all over the world and i've come to one soluton

keep a low key, low profile, don't flash with gold(etc) and dough, stay away from strangers and never take them home(epecially girls use a short-time hotel instead), never trust people in uniform, lawyers and when you talk to strangers tell them half baked bullsh1t

any sight of trouble, i move out of the way like a flash

and you know what that still leaves many good people left over to talk to

[billd766]

Why do I stay in Thailand. Quite simply because I am married to a beautiful Thai lady and we have a young son and also having lived and worked in many countries in the last 40 years I can think of nowhere nicer.

Thailand IS my home.

I live up in the north outside a small village and I try to get on with all my neighbours and all of the people that I know and meet in the village. I practice my mangled Thai with them, respect them and do my best to learn from them.

To me they are the nicest people I know.

[Sydney_Tom]

In some ways its all too easy, once you have work, the rest of life is like a constant semi-retirement.

Not bad for being 35

[pluto_manibo]

Does anyone still remember Charles Manson, I had the great pleasure of meeting his little group, not nice people. Were any of those premediated murders put to death?

You met the Manson Family?

What line of work are you in Ray?

[Kathe]

There are no guarantees in life...no guarantee that you will live even one minute longer!!!.....really....any second you could be dead.....absolutely no guarantees!  It is the same everywhere in the world.....everywhere!

I've been in some fairly questionable situations in my life and have never had a really bad thing happen to me....maybe I've just been lucky at times but part of my good luck is to recognize when the situation is a bit iffy and when it it to be extremely aware of my surroundings and who is where and what their mood is.  I guess I have developed a sense of when its time to go....as in get the heck out of there!!  If you haven't developed this sense then its better that you avoid iffy circumstances altogether.....example:  if you haven't developed the sense of when it is time to go in a hurry then don't stay out drinking until 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning in Thailand with strangers who are getting really drunk with only the stranger's friends around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite right. If you live with only negative aspect, you will never feel any peace of mind Ray. Thailand is more safe, depending how to adapt your life and spending your life here. Life isnt safe if you spending time for drinking after 3 am. Making friends with strangers are dangerous.

Eventhough I have always been worried about my parents, but I have never heard anything bad or thief or any bad things happen to them and also not with my relations too. The way you live you have to adjust for yourself. Since I have been living for a long time in Europe, I feel like crazy when I am in Bkk. I am afraid of strangers , afraid of travelling alone in a big city in a taxi at night. But since I talk and some chat with Taxi drivers, I found out they are quite nice and they are also afraid of passengers too. And I found out even ppl are very busy and hectic, but they do have time to help you if you ask them. A little positive think would help a lot to live in this country. Try not compare between here and your hometown. You will have only complex and unhappy, why u have to live here. And if this thought always disturb your head, then try to change and doing something to make you feel happier, going back or change something. There is NOWHERE....perfect for everybody, but there is a little perfect way how to live here peacefully.

[chownah]

My wife went out to buy 7 bags of cement today when we ran out in the middle of some work. She went to the local store where we charge everything and pay once in a while. When she returned she reminded me of why I stay. She said..."I went to the store and they were out of the kind of cement we want to buy. I didn't have any money so I borrowed enough from Pa Mon (the storekeeper) and went to the other store and bought some."

Where I come from I don't think you could ever borrow money from one shopkeeper because you are going to use it to buy from their competition.

[taxexile]

kreon

keep a low key, low profile, don't flash with gold(etc) and dough, stay away from strangers and never take them home(epecially girls use a short-time hotel instead), never trust people in uniform, lawyers and when you talk to strangers tell them half baked bullsh1t

any sight of trouble, i move out of the way like a flash 

and you know what that still leaves many good people left over to talk to 

not bad advice at all !!

[billd766]

My wife went out to buy 7 bags of cement today when we ran out in the middle of some work.  She went to the local store where we charge everything and pay once in a while.  When she returned she reminded me of why I stay.  She said..."I went to the store and they were out of the kind of cement we want to buy.  I didn't have any money so I borrowed enough from Pa Mon (the storekeeper) and went to the other store and bought some."

Where I come from I don't think you could ever borrow money from one shopkeeper because you are going to use it to buy from their competition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chownah

I am not sure if that would happen in my village as the one shopkeeper would go out and get it for us as has happened a few times im several places. When my wife was getting the house built she was nice enough to let me pay the weekly bill when I came up and if I forgot, there was always next week.

Sorry about the double post earlier. Stupid computer.

[ray23]

Does anyone still remember Charles Manson, I had the great pleasure of meeting his little group, not nice people. Were any of those premediated murders put to death?

You met the Manson Family?

What line of work are you in Ray?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm retired now but at the time I was a Los Angeles Police Officer. Believe or not the group used to hitch hike through the area I worked. This was just prior to the Tate/ Labanka murders. They really just seemed just like the normal hippie groups of the time.

There were many others over the years, one that really stood out in my mind was one who was a professional hit man, he was awaiting trial in the Jail where I wa a suprevisor. It was easy to see how he could have been so successful, I would spend hours just talking to him. Very intelligent, out going and for all intents and purposes when you first met time you gut would be telling he was a nice guy. But he was infact a very deadly individual, that was how he made his living.

Another that was featured on Americas Most Wanted. Killed a young girl with a shotgun, because he wanted her Volkswagen.

Most were truly crimes of passion, usually where there was achohol or booze involved, people are killed all over the world for the stupidist things. The one thing that I learned was just how cruel people can be to one another, I was and are still amazed by this. But it really has very little to do with what country your in.

I feel much safer walking around Udon at night, then I ever did in my home country. Maybe I'm naive, I just have not seen the violence here that I did in the states. Iknow it exist's especially in the tourist areas. In those places I handle myself completly differently then I do in Udon.

One person that I met here a Lao guy with American citizenship was shot to death in Nong Kia last year. In all honesty with the way he did things I was surprised that it didn't happen sooner. That case has never been solved and I doubt that it ever will be. It was professional hit, the problem would be in finding which group he angered more then the others to get himself killed.

I'm involved in a civil suit with a Thia guy here, trust me I did a lot of inquiries, into who this guy was connected with before I filed that suit. Then I made myself as hard to find as I could, until I had a feel for where this was going. I try to be as careful as I can and still live my life. I would have handled this no differently had been in Mexico. I think it is important to think things though when you can and opt for the best for yourself.

I was just so amazed by the comments I was seeing from people about this case, not that they felt that way but they did feel that way and were still living here. This is a great place, but not the only place you can live well with the money most of us retirees have.

I have my moments of doubt to, but nothing on the level these guys were expressing.

[Kerryd]

As other posters have mentioned, bad things happen in all parts of the world. Canada is no different. We have a guy in jail who ("allegedly") either killed, or at least helped dispose of the bodies of at least 27 women, on his pig farm.

Another guy, with the help of his wife, drugged, raped and killed a couple of teenage girls, as well as drugging and raping his wife's sister.

His wife helped him drug and rape her own (younger) sister !

She managed to arrange a plea deal before all the facts were known, got a short prison term in a "country club" like facility, and is now ready for parole.

Many of our politicians are crooked/corrupt, they just hide it better (right Mr Chretien ?) Our current Prime Minister owned the Canadian Steamship Lines (cargo ships). He had to get rid of it before becoming the PM. What did he do ? Sold it to his sons and now claims he has no involvement in the company. Yeah right.

Coincidentally, 2 weeks after being elected Prime Minister, a random search of one of his ("former") ships turned up 80 kg's of cocaine hidden under the hull. Supposedly, no one on the ship or in the company has any idea of how it happened to get there.

As you can see, things aren't much different than Thailand, except Thailand has better weather, friendlier people, cheaper prices and great food !

[bannork]

I've lived in Thailand 20 years and never been remotely mugged, never had any dudes looming down on me late at night; unlike England where you're fair game for muggers or brain-starved yobbos on a Friday or Saturday night if you happen to be on the streets.

Once you've been here sometime you learn that those with power, legal or otherwise, have the power of life and death over us lesser mortals so you don't cross them, financially or physically.

2 days ago the nephew of the famous monk, Luang Por Khun was brazenly shot to death in a field in front of his latest wife and employees. Why? According to newspaper reports he didn't care whom he upset with his blunt remarks and business transactions, a conflict with business rivals was the likely reason for this third and successful attempt on his life.

If you follow the unwritten rules Thailand is a very safe place, (apart from the drivers), nearly all violence has a clear-cut cause, the only serial killers here are hitmen.

bannork.

[Neeranam]

I stay because it's where I made a life for myself, and because it's home. Got to look at the realities, true, but it's all part of an over-all balance of many things. Thailand simply works for me.

Simply put Ajarn, and very true for me.

I've lived in Thailand 20 years and never been remotely mugged, never had any dudes looming down on me late at night; unlike England where you're fair game for muggers or brain-starved yobbos on a Friday or Saturday night if you happen to be on the streets.

I haven't been here that long, but over half that time and I have only been mugged once, and that was my own fault. I used to get up to some VERY dangerous things in Bangkok(all because I was adicted to drugs and booze for 5 years, which I ain't now, thank God), and there is no way that I would have survived back in my home in Scotland(Edinburgh/Leith). I was in locked up 8 times in the UK, and have never been in Thailand! Sorry, I tell a lie, only once, but that was voluntary.

I came here over 12 years ago with absolutely nothing. I had about 1000 pounds, which went in a couple of months. It has been a bit annoying sometimes but when you stay for a few years you learn to become very tolerant.

Now I have a beautiful, loving family, a good, secure job, although the wages are MUCH lower than I had in the UK. Money is not so important now. I have enough to take a trip abroad once a year which can't be bad. I see my friends and relatives from home regularly, when they come to visit.

I do get a bit pissed off with some things and have a vent, sometimes on this forum, but not nearly as much as I would back "home".

I occassionally write a list of all the positive things for me in this country and all the negative things and the positives are always way more than the negtives.

I can't even imagine moving back to Scotland, where the negatives would be way ahead of the positives.

Thailand has given me a new, great life and that is why I stay here.

Edited May 27, 2005 by Neeranam

[moebius]

Quite frankly I've felt safer in China and Thailand and Malaysia and Singapore than any place I have even been in North America.

Robbery I can understand. It's just economics.

At least here and abouts I can go out for a drink without wondering if someone is going to 'kick my head in' because they don't like the way I look.

[snoophound]

Unless they are falangs barred from the costa del sol and live in Pattaya!!!

Quite frankly I've felt safer in China and Thailand and Malaysia and Singapore than any place I have even been in North America.

Robbery I can understand. It's just economics.

At least here and abouts I can go out for a drink without wondering if someone is going to 'kick my head in' because they don't like the way I look.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Boon Mee]

Its also naïve to think there are not injustices, corruption and negativity in the Western, so called 1st world.

What should the wife of the Italian agent say when the US soldier who killed him was found not guilty??

Well, that "agent" fcuked up - plain and simple.

Shouda driven the speed limit and stopped when required.

Edited May 28, 2005 by Boon Mee

[boris]

Its also naïve to think there are not injustices, corruption and negativity in the Western, so called 1st world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, there is much more injustice in the US than in Thailand.

What should the wife of the Italian agent say when the US soldier who killed him was found not guilty??

What should the victims in Iraq jails say, when the female soldier was sentenced only to few months??

come on guys, don't come here to teach us how to pee!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do these people get their opinions? Do they have any idea of the nature of the country they profess to understand.Actually I too am very fond of Thailand but it is absurd to claim its justice system is superior to that of the US,Western Europe and even Japan.Despite shortcomings the rule of law is paramount in these countries and by and large the administration of justice is incorrupt.The same cannot be said of Thailand although standards are reasonable in comparison with other developing countries, and -to end on an optimistic note -I think slowly improving.

[ray23]

Its also naïve to think there are not injustices, corruption and negativity in the Western, so called 1st world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What should the wife of the Italian agent say when the US soldier who killed him was found not guilty??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that "agent" fcuked up - plain and simple.

Shouda driven the speed limit and stopped when required.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on guys I tried to get something positive going in this thread, there are enough negative things going on, so why do you stay?

[mbkudu]

Try Kampuchea? I hear it's grand in the cool season.