Good ND, I remembered that this afternoon. Berry strange.

But what should be investigated? Most of the evidence is gone. What would you look at first if you could? We can all see the super slow motion video of the collapse that shows it wasn't exactly collapsing like they explained us and want people to believe, but then what?

Maybe build a realistic scale model, fly some realistic model aircraft in them and see what happens?

I think even if it would show those replica's did not collapse, no proof of a conspiracy could ever be found. Remember most files of (for example) MK Ultra have been destroyed, the interrogation video's from those Guantanamo (?) prisons have been destroyed and there are many other examples where evidence is destroyed or withhold from the public and that happens all over the world by different governments.

Even then, if somehow people could get access to some of the files and connect the dot's (if there are any sinister ones) and publish them, who would believe them (Chuck not for sure ).

Did the recent leak of this video caused public outrage? http://collateralmurder.com Did the recent admission that Nato forces indeed shot and killed a few pregnant women and some innocent others in a night raid? How about those students that got a shot to the head?

What I am trying to say is that I think most people are so numbed down either by prescription drugs or their daily watching of shows like AI, or are too busy trying to make a living and survive, others just do not care or are programmed into believing what has been told to them by their government or superiors.

Even if you could somehow raise some serious questions backed up by some evidence I am sure the reply will be something like: Well nothing like this has ever happened before so no comparison can be made.

So I am just thinking how could these questions surrounding 9/11 ever been approached successfully.

Alex

Why is it such a surprise that there is some fine dust around a demolished building. I have been around a couple of buildings in Saudi destroyed by truck bombs. There is plenty of fine dust. I would surmise it is concrete dust, but maybe it is the other kind. I am sure our Russian "spy" could clear up the issue.

By the way, the USS New York was built with nearly eight tons of steel from the WTC attacks.

http://www.ussny.org/

I watched about 8 minutes of the first link and that was enough to convince me the theory is full of hot air.

I am with the program. It's just a different channel.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A passport survived!!! Proof positive there is a conspiracy involved.

brother, i have seen a few demolished buildings too & yes it is amazing how much dust there can be, but two things I have to say to you:-

1. These buildings were made of something like 80% steel, even after you put everything else in the buildings, furniture, carpet, desks, people etc, there still a considerably high proportion of steel, overall. You could stack steel (thick <deleted> like this was built of) all the way to the moon and when the sukker toppled over, it wouldnt turn to dust. Argree or disagree?

2. When buildings are demolished by way of explosive, a portion of the building becomes dust......but not the major portion. Clearly in this, there was only the top 15% of the building left as recognisable debris.....where on fekkks name did the rest of it go, you couldnt seriously think that a building falling down like this (made from steel) would turn to dust in the process.

Where did you ever come up with the idea there was no scrap steel when the buildings collapsed? One estimate I have seen is there were more than 200,000 tons of recoverable steel from the collapse. Try this link:

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/grou...na_baosteel.htm

That link says 50,000 tons went to China, 10,000 tons went to India and 40,000 tons went to New Jersey.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

or this link that claims more than 1.7 million tons of debris was sorted through.

http://www.eshinc.com/CaseStudies/WorldTradeCenter.aspx

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This link is a paper prepared by one T. W. Eagar of the Civil Engineering Department of MIT. It provides the reason for the collapse.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/...eagar-0112.html

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now to address Harcourt's claim about the Saudi passport surviving.

The link following shows the items listed below were retrieved:

1. Approximately 4,000 personal photographs.

2. Foreign and US currency totaling $78,318.47.

3. Approximately 54,000 personal ID cards and driver licenses.

Is it any surprise a passport could survive?

The link is a PDF file that will require a download.

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/exhibits/longter...ts/recovery.pdf

Interesting to find the steel figures..

the usual amount quoted is 200,000 tons or more

the amount exported in your link above is equal to half that.. (or one tower's worth)

--------------

1.7 mil tonnes is coming from a govt outfit... need independent figures

ES&H, Inc. is subcontracted to Phillips & Jordan. Inc. (P&J), who is contracted to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in support of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). ES&H, Inc. was the primary liaison between 22 different agencies, including: NYPD, Fire Department of New York (FDNY), FBI, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA), Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), U.S. Customs, USACE, and FEMA.

--------------

The MIT report sounds like the pancake theory?? Which even the 911 commision rejects...

what happened to the core?

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/...eagar-0112.html

I stress.. I am not a hardcore ' twoofer ' !!

I just find it highly suspicious that this huge event is so bound in red tape... i smell a rat.

What about the military drills on the day?

same as 7/7 in the UK

exactly the same.. Thats hy they say nothing was done for ages, the whole country was in a drill . NORAD was in a drill.. hijacked planes.. guess what targets?

so... a 'plane' is tracked, monitored .. and yet still manages to hit the most sensitive spot in the USA...

Nope.. no need for an enquiry... KEEP SHOPPING & DON'T ASK QUESTIONS!

United States government operations and exercises on September 11, 2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_games_in_...tember_11,_2001

The military exercises (war games) planned for September 11, 2001 included:

Global Guardian, an annual command-level exercise organized by United States Strategic Command in cooperation with Space Command and NORAD. Primary purpose is to test and validate nuclear command and control and execution procedures. Global Guardian is performed in conjunction with NORAD's Vigilant Guardian and Amalgam Warrior, as well as exercises sponsored by Air Combat Command (Crown Vigilance) and Space Command (Apollo Guardian).[3][4]

Vigilant Guardian, the semiannual NORAD exercise that had been running in conjunction with Global Guardian for several days and which postulated a bomber attack from the former Soviet Union. Vigilant Guardian is a Command Post Exercise (CPX), meaning it is conducted in offices and with computers, but without actual planes in the air. The exercise involves all NORAD command levels.[5] Out of a range of scenarios being run on September 11, 2001, one was a "traditional" simulated hijacking.[6] According to General Eberhart, after the first attack, "it took about 30 seconds" to make the adjustment to the real-world situation.[7] Because of an increased number of staff, the exercise would prove to be an enabler of rapid military response for NORAD and its NEADS component, as senior officials who were manning NORAD command centers throughout the U.S. were available to make rapid decisions.[8]

There is also one other, disputed account of a planned exercise:

Vigilant Warrior, in his book Against All Enemies, Richard Clarke claims there was a NORAD exercise ongoing called Vigilant Warrior.[9] The claim is based on a comment that Richard Myers made to Clarke via a video link on September 11, 2001. However, there is no other record of a NORAD exercise named Vigiliant Warrior. Myers was possibly referring to Vigilant Guardian (the aforementioned yearly NORAD exercise held in conjunction with Global Guardian) or Amalgam Warrior (a large-scale, live-fly, CINCNORAD sponsored exercise which is held twice annually).[10] Vigilant Warrior was also a 1994 operation by the US army in the Persian Gulf region, in response to Iraqi troop movements towards Kuwait.[11]

What I am trying to say is that I think most people are so numbed down either by prescription drugs or their daily watching of shows like AI, or are too busy trying to make a living and survive, others just do not care or are programmed into believing what has been told to them by their government or superiors.

...And the conspiracy kooks...

chuckd,

your own figures only showed where half the steel went, that means half of it disappeared into thin air.......steel doesnt do that easily.

some interesting stuff here.......perhaps george should assign & pay a few of us to investigate this matter, right here at thai visa.

As for Alexlah, I can't agree with you any more over what you have said, there certainly has been alot of evidence destroyed, which is so dam_n typical of the US Govt.

First step, George W Bush should be incarcerated, along with his parents (they are ultimately responsible for him, however his father is responsible for many deaths himself) and the greatest killer of iraqi children, Mr I didnt get a headjob should be locked up as well.....from there we can work out who to arrest and torture until the real truth is known.

Now to address Harcourt's claim about the Saudi passport surviving.

The link following shows the items listed below were retrieved:

1. Approximately 4,000 personal photographs.

2. Foreign and US currency totaling $78,318.47.

3. Approximately 54,000 personal ID cards and driver licenses.

Is it any surprise a passport could survive?

The link is a PDF file that will require a download.

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/exhibits/longter...ts/recovery.pdf

It is a huge suprise when one considers that the passport was supposedly on board the plane! Remember, the black box did not survive!! (Supposedly )

54 000 ID cards and driver licences? That raises questions too; under 3000 people died. Of the people that escaped the buildings, certainly many would have abandoned their handbags etc, but most men carry their wallet in their pocket......Considering the amount of pulverised destruction, it would be fair to say that personal effects found in the debris must have come from a small proportion of floors. 54 000 sounds like alot.

Good ND, I remembered that this afternoon. Berry strange.

But what should be investigated? Most of the evidence is gone. What would you look at first if you could? We can all see the super slow motion video of the collapse that shows it wasn't exactly collapsing like they explained us and want people to believe, but then what?

Maybe build a realistic scale model, fly some realistic model aircraft in them and see what happens?

I think even if it would show those replica's did not collapse, no proof of a conspiracy could ever be found. Remember most files of (for example) MK Ultra have been destroyed, the interrogation video's from those Guantanamo (?) prisons have been destroyed and there are many other examples where evidence is destroyed or withhold from the public and that happens all over the world by different governments.

Even then, if somehow people could get access to some of the files and connect the dot's (if there are any sinister ones) and publish them, who would believe them (Chuck not for sure ).

Did the recent leak of this video caused public outrage? http://collateralmurder.com Did the recent admission that Nato forces indeed shot and killed a few pregnant women and some innocent others in a night raid? How about those students that got a shot to the head?

What I am trying to say is that I think most people are so numbed down either by prescription drugs or their daily watching of shows like AI, or are too busy trying to make a living and survive, others just do not care or are programmed into believing what has been told to them by their government or superiors.

Even if you could somehow raise some serious questions backed up by some evidence I am sure the reply will be something like: Well nothing like this has ever happened before so no comparison can be made.

So I am just thinking how could these questions surrounding 9/11 ever been approached successfully.

Alex

Unfortunately, the model idea is probably flawed due to the square cube law.

It is a huge suprise when one considers that the passport was supposedly on board the plane! Remember, the black box did not survive!!

A black box is heavy and hard. It could easily be broken when falling from a great height. A passport is neither. It is not rocket science why it survived.

Now to address Harcourt's claim about the Saudi passport surviving.

The link following shows the items listed below were retrieved:

1. Approximately 4,000 personal photographs.

2. Foreign and US currency totaling $78,318.47.

3. Approximately 54,000 personal ID cards and driver licenses.

Is it any surprise a passport could survive?

The link is a PDF file that will require a download.

http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/exhibits/longter...ts/recovery.pdf

It is a huge suprise when one considers that the passport was supposedly on board the plane! Remember, the black box did not survive!! (Supposedly )

54 000 ID cards and driver licences? That raises questions too; under 3000 people died. Of the people that escaped the buildings, certainly many would have abandoned their handbags etc, but most men carry their wallet in their pocket......Considering the amount of pulverised destruction, it would be fair to say that personal effects found in the debris must have come from a small proportion of floors. 54 000 sounds like alot.

One witness gives evidence that 3 of the 4 black boxes (theirs 2 orange boxes in each plane) were recovered

I probably have to post this link 3-4 times a year...

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

Popular Mechanics examines the evidence and consults the experts to refute the most persistent conspiracy theories of September 11.

Debunking Popular Mechanics' 9/11 Lies

just what do you believe? theres so much conflicting theories

Who do you think was behind the 911 attacks?

from a Pew poll 2008.

why didn't they include Japan?

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link 9/6/2003

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...poll-iraq_x.htm

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country

Debunking Popular Mechanics' 9/11 Lies

just what do you believe? theres so much conflicting theories

Hmmm, Popular Mechanics (with over 100 years of history) or prisonplanet.com? Tough call.

Who do you think was behind the 911 attacks?

from a Pew poll 2008.

why didn't they include Japan?

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link 9/6/2003

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/20...poll-iraq_x.htm

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country

And about 54% of Americans believed Obama's crap and voted for him. Thankfully I don't belong to either group and never met anyone who thought Saddam was behind 9/11.

Just goes to show.. just because it's popular... doesn't make it true!

Now back the main issue...

• How could 3 aircraft hit targets on the same day that military drills were being run simulating the very same thing?
  
• How could the London tube bombings happen during a military drill simulating an attack on the very same stations that got blown up?
  
• The UK Conservative party are pledging to reopen the David Kelly WMD whistleblower case, and his 'suicide' with a blunt knife (subsequently found to have no fingerprints). There is a gagging order on evidence for 70 years.
  

This new 911 theory grabs my attention because:

1. It gives a specific missile, that looks like it may have a rotor? that fits the size of the one at the pentagon.
   
2. It states that the missile hit low, because thats what anti-ship missiles do.. they go for the water line.
   
3. It states that Shanksville was cut down by cannon fire. Highly likely, debris found miles away... where is the plane? - It broke up midair.
   

I am not convinced by the digital editing of the two planes hitting the tower.

But if they had a cargo, (that being two thermonuclear missiles) it would explain the cover up. Obviously it wasnt 'mini-nukes' or thermite on the core...its just too much work, and went too well...

but... but... but...

If there was a super dooper beam of magic nuclear energy that fossilised, carbonised, vaporised and generally did some magic on the atoms of the entire building in a sort of death ray from a roman candle... then hmm...

seems more likely than an American coup d'etat with insiders, and teams of magic explosive nano paint. (which is the current mainstram consiracy theory).

As for the who dunnit, who shot the missiles?

Well... could be insiders, taking the military exercises 'live' having planted REAL bombs in the planes. (As happened in London with the patsies on the drill)

or it could indeed be a real attack from outside the US, timed with the drills for maximum confusion. Maybe Al Queda knew of the nature of the drills and decided to plan the whole show for that day. Seems odd to plan your attack on the day when most of the military are actually up in the air and 'live' catching pretend hijackers...

As for it being Isreal/Russian Mafia, I just dont think the Israeli's would bite the hand that feeds them. Isreal could have taken out Iraq without the US, as can it take out Iran. Just seems too easy to pin the blame. And given the number of right wingers and fundamentalist Christians in the US, I prefer the coup d'etat theory over the 'blame it on the jews'.

What about the South Americans? The first 9-11 was September 11th 1973, when "The US-backed military junta took control of the government". They have more money than god in south america now...

Just dont know. But really, do people really want to trust a government that doesn't trust its own population to handle the truth? Might as well lie down and accept that the governments of the west/east/north/south no longer serve the people. They dictate. And the war on terror sparked by 911 has ushered in a whole new era of totalitarian governments.

rant over. magic roman candles under the towers. It all seems so logical! (compared to 3 cessna pilots pulling off 3 strikes on the day of drills)

• explains the pyroclastic flow over manhatten over the 'dust'
  
• explains why half the buildings are missing
  
• explans the super hot temps below the site
  
• explains why the towers were 'pulled' - and if true, thank god they were!
  
• explains why the Pentagon couldn't hit the supersonic missile with its array of anti aircraft guns on the roof
  

I'm not convinced by the theory, but I like it. I like it a lot!

pentagon rotor

shanksville cartoon cutout plane. (which is missing?)

p.s: talking of a coup d'etat ... what on earth was this:

Congressman Brad Sherman: Martial Law if We Voted No

just what do you believe?

Certainly not a wacky website called "prisonplanet.com" .

I believe my eyes.

chuckd,

your own figures only showed where half the steel went, that means half of it disappeared into thin air.......steel doesnt do that easily.

Maybe these links will help your thought process on the missing steel that "disappeared into thin air".

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/sept-11-ste...-memorial-homes

http://www.indianraj.com/2006/09/what_happ...ld_trade_c.html

If these don't satisfy you then I suggest you Google whatever information you want.

Start out with "World Trade Center scrap metal" and go from there. Use your imagination.

70% believes Saddam was involved...........sheeeeeeezh.

I just can't believe it to be that high, if real then it is really sad. And even if a whole sinister conspiracy would be uncovered I doubt if it will ever reach the braincells left in those that still think Saddam was involved. Holy crab!

70% believes Saddam was involved...........sheeeeeeezh.

I just can't believe it to be that high, if real then it is really sad. And even if a whole sinister conspiracy would be uncovered I doubt if it will ever reach the braincells left in those that still think Saddam was involved. Holy crab!

Alex, notice the publishing date. The poll is nearly seven years old.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted 9/6/2003 8:10 AM

Poll: 70% believe Saddam, 9-11 link

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe it is likely that ousted Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, says a poll out almost two years after the terrorists' strike against this country.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

oh oops overlooked that one. Anyway any more recent poll available then WR?

Use your imagination.

thats what got me into this mess in the first place

Use your imagination.

thats what got me into this mess in the first place

Chuck, you think if the experiment was done again it would have a different outcome?

Chuck, you think if the experiment was done again it would have a different outcome?

What experiment?

The experiment that WR mentioned, the 70% thingy....

The experiment that WR mentioned, the 70% thingy....

Oh, the POLL. Here's the latest I could find, dated 01-16-2006

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who orchestrated the 9-11 attacks on America?

41% (97) Osama Bin-laden.

2% (5) Sadam Hussein.

5% (13) Osama Bin-laden and Sadam Hussein.

8% (20) The Israeli government.

12% (28) G.W. Bush and U.S. partners.(Cheney,Rummy,etc.)

4% (11) Dick Cheney and partners.(George W. Bush unawares)

9% (22) Bush or Cheney with Osama as the hit man.

7% (18) The C.I.A.

3% (8) P.N.A.C.

0% (1) F.E.M.A.

3% (9) France.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

...and the link:

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/239168/results

70% believes Saddam was involved...........sheeeeeeezh.

I just can't believe it to be that high, if real then it is really sad. And even if a whole sinister conspiracy would be uncovered I doubt if it will ever reach the braincells left in those that still think Saddam was involved. Holy crab!

Considering the date of the poll, you should see that this result is because the propaganda machine was in full swing for the invasion of Iraq. 70% bought it.

Along with WOMD.

Don't you recall all the hype, Alex?

Sad indeed, on two counts; the gullibility of the masses and the willingness to lie of the authorities.

The experiment that WR mentioned, the 70% thingy....

Oh, the POLL. Here's the latest I could find, dated 01-16-2006

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who orchestrated the 9-11 attacks on America?

41% (97) Osama Bin-laden.

2% (5) Sadam Hussein.

5% (13) Osama Bin-laden and Sadam Hussein.

8% (20) The Israeli government.

12% (28) G.W. Bush and U.S. partners.(Cheney,Rummy,etc.)

4% (11) Dick Cheney and partners.(George W. Bush unawares)

9% (22) Bush or Cheney with Osama as the hit man.

7% (18) The C.I.A.

3% (8) P.N.A.C.

0% (1) F.E.M.A.

3% (9) France.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

...and the link:

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/239168/results

Interesting to note that more respondants think an American or Israeli source is behind it than Bin Laden.

Only if you add up a whole bunch of different nutty conspiracy theories.

The experiment that WR mentioned, the 70% thingy....

Oh, the POLL. Here's the latest I could find, dated 01-16-2006

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who orchestrated the 9-11 attacks on America?

41% (97) Osama Bin-laden.

2% (5) Sadam Hussein.

5% (13) Osama Bin-laden and Sadam Hussein.

8% (20) The Israeli government.

12% (28) G.W. Bush and U.S. partners.(Cheney,Rummy,etc.)

4% (11) Dick Cheney and partners.(George W. Bush unawares)

9% (22) Bush or Cheney with Osama as the hit man.

7% (18) The C.I.A.

3% (8) P.N.A.C.

0% (1) F.E.M.A.

3% (9) France.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

...and the link:

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/239168/results

Interesting to note that more respondants think an American or Israeli source is behind it than Bin Laden.

I knew somebody would bite on my latest poll. Seems it is the guy that never checks out my links. "The gullibility of the masses", indeed.

If he were to check the site out, he might find other interesting polls to occupy his time. Such as....

Obi-wan vs Anakin

Rage Against the Machine for Xmas #1!! Who will truly buy it??

Your favourite Web Browser

Marriage and Winning the Lottery

Caps Attack!

Foxnews

Organic Products

The Ultimate Poll of Life, the Universe, and Everything

Who Should Play Who In The BioShock Movie

Seat belt choice

Harcourt, the poll is a joke. Only 232 people voted, and 3% of them said FRANCE was behind the 9/11 attacks.

Here is a poll liberals might find interesting. Please let us know the results.

http://www.misterpoll.com/polls/477644