Older Men, Younger Women

[BigWheelMan]

My wife is 34 and I am 54

Before she met me she had never had a relationship with a western man, she had never lived with any man (but had been a Mia noi to a Thai man of similar age to me). His family would never allow them to marry as her family were not good enough (poor farmers).

At age 5 her father left the home after beating her mother, at age 12 she left school to work with her mother as a labourer on a building site (without a high school diploma you can't even work in a 7/11), at 22 she had a child with a Thai boyfriend, who was promptly jailed for dealing Yabba (and is still in jail), after that she worked on and off on the family tobacco farm. Her daughter was due to leave school next year at age 12 (no money to pay for schooling), her daughter has never seen her father.

After meeting and marrying me she now has many choice in her life and is not just trying to survive, she can go back to school and get her high school diploma (if she wants), her daughter can continue to high school and then CM university. When our own children arrive they will be able to go to high school and university.

This story is not uncommon among Thai ladies!

I don't make any unusual sexual demands on her. Her biggest fear is that I will leave her but she desperately wants more children before she is too old. She doesn't trust men and who can blame her, I hope one day she will come to trust me.

Now can someone kindly explain to me how I am taking advantage of this lady, or how her life has been damaged by marrying someone so much older and from a different society?

You`re taking advantage of each other.

The old Farang gets his spring chicken and the much younger female gets financial security, help for her family and some status within her community.

It`s a sort of business relationship as long as the money lasts.

I certainly wouldn`t say that paying for it guarantees loyalty from the young female. Fine, if you are happy with that, good luck to all concerned.

[CMX]

SBloke

Not that it should matter, but I certainly see your point. That of the child/children irrefutably. Win-win.

Maybe it is not at all about age, some about money, but more about honesty - to myself, if I can bear it, and to the significant other, if they are indeed. Maybe OP's thinking at the outset.

As I tried to indicate, what bothered me when I first got here was that holding hands in public places - have yet to see the Thai woman with a Westerner seem happy at the public display, so natural in the West. Here, it seems like possession of a chattel. And I've seen insults and condescension by W. males toward T. females that I rarely have to observe in the sleaziest of bars in the U.S. - expect it's kept private there.

[Ulysses G.]

The old Farang gets his spring chicken and the much younger female gets financial security, help for her family and some status within her community.

It`s a sort of business relationship as long as the money lasts.

I certainly wouldn`t say that paying for it guarantees loyalty from the young female. Fine, if you are happy with that, good luck to all concerned.

From what I have seen, it often starts out this way, but eventually turns into real affection. Also, as the young chickadee grows older, she tends to realize that finding a new mate is not going to be so easy any more. The other thing is, how many Western women would stick it out for long with a guy who is dead broke?

[CMX]

"That very reason is why I won't get married again. I realize there will be a time when I can't perform like a man any longer and wouldn't want to subject a young wife to looking after some old invalid when she is still in the prime of her life." - IanForbes

This certainly goes to the age question, not even counting the nobility of its mature thinking. It argues strongly (with another contributor) that women should only engage in serious relationships with younger guys, and it doesn't even speak to sexual issues that make the same point.

Personally, I'm not looking forward to the day when, even supported by miracles of modern medicines, I can no longer perform "like a man." For one thing, I won't know what to call myself - invalid, I suppose.

[bifftastic]

My wife is 34 and I am 54

You`re taking advantage of each other.

The old Farang gets his spring chicken and the much younger female gets financial security, help for her family and some status within her community.

It`s a sort of business relationship as long as the money lasts.

I certainly wouldn`t say that paying for it guarantees loyalty from the young female. Fine, if you are happy with that, good luck to all concerned.

All couples 'take advantage' of each other. If you look at the literal meaning of the words 'take' and 'advantage' take can also be substituted for 'give'

with regard to the looks or comments, my ex g/f (English) was 12 years younger than me, this generated no looks or comments, my Thai g/f is 13 years younger than me and one of the first questions I'm asked by my friends is 'how old is she?' expecting her to be in her 20's (I'm 46)

so far, no negative comments other than 'oh I suppose she wants to come over here then?' with rolling eyes. I reply 'have a look round mate, why would she?'

I agree that 'paying for it' doesn't guarantee anything, but there are financial implications in any relationship. If money is the only reason then that's very different, but there is often a financial 'imbalance' ie. one partner earns or has more than the other, that doesn't necessarily mean it's purely a financial arrangement.

[bifftastic]

SBloke

As I tried to indicate, what bothered me when I first got here was that holding hands in public places - have yet to see the Thai woman with a Westerner seem happy at the public display, so natural in the West. Here, it seems like possession of a chattel.

My g/f is very comfortable with that, in fact, when we're walking it's her hand that looks for mine, she will often then place my hand on top of her head, the significance of that, if there is any, escapes me hopefully it's not possession of a chattel as you mention!

She maybe quite the rebel, as I haven't seen many other couples. Thai/Thai or Thai/Farang doing the same.

[tonititan]

The other thing is, how many Western women would stick it out for long with a guy who is dead broke?

I did, for quite a long time. Yes I was the sugar momma, lol.

I don't think the main difference is Thai women vs. Western women. I think it is more a matter of women who need a man for financial support vs. those who don't. (No judgment either way, everyone has different circumstances in life.) Lots of my female friends are the breadwinners in their relationships. Not all of us women equate men with money.

[sarahsbloke]

My g/f is very comfortable with that, in fact, when we're walking it's her hand that looks for mine

Me too, I never initiate touching my wife in public, but she is always grabbing my hand or putting my arm abound her.

Pretty much the same in her village, the rules don't seem so hard and fast as I originally was informed (or maybe she just doesn't give a stuff about what everyone else thinks of her).

Edited April 21, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Ulysses G.]

The other thing is, how many Western women would stick it out for long with a guy who is dead broke?

I did, for quite a long time. Yes I was the sugar momma, lol.

I don't think the main difference is Thai women vs. Western women. I think it is more a matter of women who need a man for financial support vs. those who don't. (No judgment either way, everyone has different circumstances in life.) Lots of my female friends are the breadwinners in their relationships. Not all of us women equate men with money.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that no Western women would stick by her man, only that it is as unusual amongst farangs as Thais. There are plenty of good women out there, but too many of us prefer the naughty ones until it is too late.

[bifftastic]

...the rules don't seem so hard and fast as I originally was informed (or maybe she just doesn't give a stuff about what everyone else thinks of her).

6 of one half-a-dozen of the other I reckon I still don't get the 'putting my hand on her head' thing though

[bifftastic]

The other thing is, how many Western women would stick it out for long with a guy who is dead broke?

I did, for quite a long time. Yes I was the sugar momma, lol.

I don't think the main difference is Thai women vs. Western women. I think it is more a matter of women who need a man for financial support vs. those who don't. (No judgment either way, everyone has different circumstances in life.) Lots of my female friends are the breadwinners in their relationships. Not all of us women equate men with money.

My English ex g/f always earned more than me, in fact, when we met I was proper 'on me arse' as we say in London and she was my 'sugar momma' for a while it never really was an issue with us, just how it was

[tonititan]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that no Western women would stick by her man, only that it is as unusual amongst farangs as Thais. There are plenty of good women out there, but too many of us prefer the naughty ones until it is too late.

It's ok, no offense taken. Just pointing it out.

[qutejute]

Don’t confuse pleasure with happiness they are a different breed of dog.

[eek]

SBloke

As I tried to indicate, what bothered me when I first got here was that holding hands in public places - have yet to see the Thai woman with a Westerner seem happy at the public display, so natural in the West. Here, it seems like possession of a chattel.

My g/f is very comfortable with that, in fact, when we're walking it's her hand that looks for mine, she will often then place my hand on top of her head, the significance of that, if there is any, escapes me hopefully it's not possession of a chattel as you mention!

She maybe quite the rebel, as I haven't seen many other couples. Thai/Thai or Thai/Farang doing the same.

Hmm..i see couples holding hands all the time. The mall etc. But...maybe mostly the younger generation? Maybe its considered not appropriate over a certain age..?? I havent thought about it too much, i shall observe a bit more next time. But i do know that i was never given any odd looks when my bf(thai) and I walked together, and we always held hands, or he would put his arm around my waist. In fact we were often smiled at and told how "na rak" we were. Only once did some silly park attendant woman from the public park come over to us and say that we apparently were seen kissing and its a family park and not appropriate. Which was complete and utter nonsense!!! I have no idea how she had the nerve..or who made up such a silly story. My bf just gave her the cold shoulder, a disgusted look, and point blank ignored her, and continued talking to me. Its the only time in 2 years that anything odd like that had happened.

[sbk]

First off UG, both of my sisters make substantially more money than their partners. Since my oldest sister has now been married for 28 years, I would have to guess western women stick by their partners for a little while anyway.

And eek, I think it depends on where you live and how old you are. My husband and i have never held hands in Thailand. He did in the US but not in Thailand. Koh Phangan you get teenagers holding hands but certainly not local adults. PDA are just not the done thing.

[Blinky Bill]

This is my post pasted from a closed topic to reiterate my point of view.

Personally I couldn't care less about what others think about my lifestyle and that of others who are doing nothing outside the law.

Sadly there are too many prudes in the world who are more interested in others lives than their own. They are the sad cases in my opinion and in desperate need of a reason to live.

One low life on this forum made the comment on the prementioned closed thread that he wished one of the posters would die (the post was removed). How sick is that?

I came to Chiang Mai back in 1983 on a Thai Government project whilst married to my Australian wife who was the same age as me, I got "ensnared" by a local lady who was also the same age as me at the time (and still is), got divorced from the 1st, married the 2nd (not sure in what order).

Then a little later in life something similar happened re the ensnaring bit but this time she was 15 years younger than me, so once again got divorced and got married (again not too sure in what order).

And oddly enough some years later that old familiar feeling happened yet again. This time she was 18 yrs younger than me. Been quite a few years now but still married to number 4. No number 5 but there may be a few "friends" along the way.

Good on ya, Ian. Boogie till ya bounce!! (That's an old skydiving term we used many years ago)

Edited April 21, 2010 by Blinky Bill

[Ulysses G.]

First off UG, both of my sisters make substantially more money than their partners. Since my oldest sister has now been married for 28 years, I would have to guess western women stick by their partners for a little while anyway.

I did say "dead broke" - nothing about makes a lower salary - if I remember correctly.

[sbk]

Well, lets see. My dad was unemployed and going to school and my Mom was working and paying for everything. They were married over 40 years when she died, amazingly, still married to him despite the fact that at one time, he was dead broke.

Your prejudice does not become you.

[IanForbes]

You know ian you do talk <deleted> sometimes but fares fare to you on this one --- agreed.

I know that. Sometimes I INTENTIONALLY talk <deleted> for no other reason than to get an interesting discussion going. I don't mind playing the bad guy if people get to enjoy a good debate. But, one thing I'll never do is make nasty comments about others... even when they take shots at me. I can usually back up everything I say... in a nice way.

nope, I think you'll find you do it all the time

Well, I guess it depends on just WHAT you call <deleted>. I post pictures from my extensive albums to back up what I say, or to have a laugh (mostly at my own expense). Maybe THAT offends some people. When the mods tell me to stop posting photos is when I'll go somewhere else. At that point there will be too many stuffy hypocrites here to bother sticking around.

But, back on topic, rrose started a good thread with many good replies... including the ones that strayed a bit off topic. It helps to know what problems other people are dealing with when you hear the many replies.

There is seldom such a thing as a "simple" question. It always leads to other questions. And, the replies to those lead to further questions. Unless someone knows ALL the details about a certain event then it is hard to make a valid assessment of what someone has posted. False assumptions are often made because of a person's own experiences, and they react in kind. If you were always beaten up by some big black kid (or pick a type) when you were small then chances are you might think every big black kid is the same when you become an adult. If you had a series of bad relationships with women in the past then chances are you might be somewhat jaundiced about relationships in the future. I see everything in shades of grey... from almost white to almost black. Nothing is ever completely as it seems.

[IanForbes]

Only once did some silly park attendant woman from the public park come over to us and say that we apparently were seen kissing and its a family park and not appropriate. Which was complete and utter nonsense!!! I have no idea how she had the nerve..or who made up such a silly story. My bf just gave her the cold shoulder, a disgusted look, and point blank ignored her, and continued talking to me. Its the only time in 2 years that anything odd like that had happened.

I think that park attendant woman is alive on this forum at times.

Great story. It takes all kinds to make a world.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Don't confuse pleasure with happiness they are a different breed of dog.

Ideally you'd have both of those puppies around though.

[IanForbes]

Well, the answer to a happy life (from a man's perspective) was written by the immortal, Tom T Hall...

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money.

He was an old-time cowboy, don't you understand,

his eyes were sharp as razor blades his face was leather tan,

his toes were pointed inward from a-hangin' on a horse

he was an old philosopher, of course.

He was so thin I swear you could have used him for a whip

He had to drink a beer to keep his britches on his hip

I knew I had to ask him about the mysteries of life

He spit between his boots and then he replied

"It's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

He smiled and all his teeth were covered with tobacco stains

he said, "it don't do men no good to pray for peace and rain.

Peace and rain is just a way to say prosperity,

and buffalo chips is all it means to me."

I told him I was a poet, I was lookin' for the truth

I do not care for horses, whiskey, women or the loot

I said I was a writer, my soul was all on fire

He looked at me an' he said, "son you are a liar."

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

Well, I was disillusioned, if I say the least

I grabbed him by the collar and I jerked him to his feet

There was something cold and shiny layin' by my head

so I started to believe the things he said

Well, my poet days are over and I'm back to being me

as I enjoy the peace and comfort of reality

If my boy ever asks me what it is that I have learned

I think that I will readily affirm

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

[amexpat]

I am really enjoying this thread and I'm glad the forum police, self-appointed or otherwise, have not pointed out that it is not at all specific to Chiang Mai.

[CMX]

Oh, I don't know about that.

Just because the world has red traffic lights does not prove that they are not specific to Chiang Mai - we just don't pay much attention to them (either). Just because we see many October/May relationships around the world, doesn't mean that the topic doesn't have application here (maybe more?).

Glad so many folks here have a great sense of humor and are light-hearted.

Anyway, if there's one thought that makes cruising forums easier, it's the saying that starts, "Different strokes...."

And if there's one physical attribute that helps keep us happy on forums, it's a thick skin. It's not related, but >

Someone should develop an emotion thermometer for our CM forum and see if it's steady in the Hot Season. SORRY - Off topic

And maybe it's been done. Gotta search first.

Edited April 21, 2010 by CMX

[Ulysses G.]

Well, lets see. My dad was unemployed and going to school and my Mom was working and paying for everything. They were married over 40 years when she died, amazingly, still married to him despite the fact that at one time, he was dead broke.

Your prejudice does not become you.

Sorry, but you must have missed one of my posts. You are preaching to the choir.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that no Western women would stick by her man, only that it is as unusual amongst farangs as Thais. There are plenty of good women out there, but too many of us prefer the naughty ones until it is too late.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Loaded]

I think anyone who takes offense at Ian's posts is a little thin skinned. I don't agree with some of the things he writes but then if I feel strongly about it, I should state my argument as this is a discussion forum. He adds some colour to the forum and lives his life his way without intentionally hurting anyone.

There is certainly not a problem with couples holding hands in Thailand. If a man isn't holding his wife's hand, it may just be he doesn't want to.

[Gonzo the Face]

Well, the answer to a happy life (from a man's perspective) was written by the immortal, Tom T Hall...

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money.

He was an old-time cowboy, don't you understand,

his eyes were sharp as razor blades his face was leather tan,

his toes were pointed inward from a-hangin' on a horse

he was an old philosopher, of course.

He was so thin I swear you could have used him for a whip

He had to drink a beer to keep his britches on his hip

I knew I had to ask him about the mysteries of life

He spit between his boots and then he replied

"It's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

He smiled and all his teeth were covered with tobacco stains

he said, "it don't do men no good to pray for peace and rain.

Peace and rain is just a way to say prosperity,

and buffalo chips is all it means to me."

I told him I was a poet, I was lookin' for the truth

I do not care for horses, whiskey, women or the loot

I said I was a writer, my soul was all on fire

He looked at me an' he said, "son you are a liar."

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

Well, I was disillusioned, if I say the least

I grabbed him by the collar and I jerked him to his feet

There was something cold and shiny layin' by my head

so I started to believe the things he said

Well, my poet days are over and I'm back to being me

as I enjoy the peace and comfort of reality

If my boy ever asks me what it is that I have learned

I think that I will readily affirm

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

Ian , hopefully with your permission.... let me insert this link..... it sort of puts your posted quoted words to picture & Music

Hope you don't mind

Gonzo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9TVutNFUd4

Edited April 22, 2010 by Gonzo the Face

[Gonzo the Face]

Well, lets see. My dad was unemployed and going to school and my Mom was working and paying for everything. They were married over 40 years when she died, amazingly, still married to him despite the fact that at one time, he was dead broke.

Your prejudice does not become you.

...SBK not sure it this fits your beliefs, but the first few lines seem to fit quite a few Thai young ladies....

gonzo

[mackayae]

Well, the answer to a happy life (from a man's perspective) was written by the immortal, Tom T Hall...

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money.

He was an old-time cowboy, don't you understand,

his eyes were sharp as razor blades his face was leather tan,

his toes were pointed inward from a-hangin' on a horse

he was an old philosopher, of course.

He was so thin I swear you could have used him for a whip

He had to drink a beer to keep his britches on his hip

I knew I had to ask him about the mysteries of life

He spit between his boots and then he replied

"It's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

He smiled and all his teeth were covered with tobacco stains

he said, "it don't do men no good to pray for peace and rain.

Peace and rain is just a way to say prosperity,

and buffalo chips is all it means to me."

I told him I was a poet, I was lookin' for the truth

I do not care for horses, whiskey, women or the loot

I said I was a writer, my soul was all on fire

He looked at me an' he said, "son you are a liar."

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

Well, I was disillusioned, if I say the least

I grabbed him by the collar and I jerked him to his feet

There was something cold and shiny layin' by my head

so I started to believe the things he said

Well, my poet days are over and I'm back to being me

as I enjoy the peace and comfort of reality

If my boy ever asks me what it is that I have learned

I think that I will readily affirm

"it's faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, and more money"

First thought I had when I read this thread.

[CMX]

It should be mentioned, perhaps, that for those unfamiliar with “popular culture” in the North of the Western Hemisphere, that the “immortal” Thomas T. Hall is a unbelievably famous song-writer who has provided almost every country-western singer (that a lover of such music can name) with songs and lyrics. His profound philosphy and deep wisdom can be sensed by the titles of others of his wildly popular works, “I like Beer,” for example, and “A Week in a Country Jail.” Americans in the South and Western Plains, and Western Canadians (they have no South to speak of) are his enthusiastic followers.

I was a little saddened but not surprised when I discovered that he had NOT written Wynonna Judd’s, “Only Love.” music.aol.com/video/only-love/wynonna/1456910 (ditch the ad and the video, song and lyrics only)

And I claim that all three – beer, jail, and love are intimately related to MANY spring and fall matings here in Chiang Mai, though in different ways. That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it. And money, as mentioned so often in Hall’s song.