Honda Pcx Start Stop Ideling?

[snowflake]

I have now owned my Honda PCX for about a month... Done some slight modifications on the seat to fit my lardy tall body.

The thing I wonder about is the start stop idling function. Some times when I come to the intersections the bike will not stop by itself, it will just idle till I go again. Other times is cuts out the second the bike stops, and starts just as fast again.

I really like the bike and it rides well. It's not really fast but riding with my mate (he rides a nouvo (115cc), when he hits 100KMPH my bike is doing 80KMPH, same as my other mate who has a PCX too... We hit 80 he hits 100... comparing with my mio and another mates Mio, the same thing happens, they are at 100kmph and I am at 80 on the PCX...

Any thoughts about that?

PS. for the petrol speculations, I guess I pay 0.8Baht pr KM riding... full tank, ride 100K fill it up again, and pay about 80B... not so bad, but I did not buy it because of fuel efficiency.

[rixalex]

I really like the bike and it rides well. It's not really fast but riding with my mate (he rides a nouvo (115cc), when he hits 100KMPH my bike is doing 80KMPH, same as my other mate who has a PCX too... We hit 80 he hits 100... comparing with my mio and another mates Mio, the same thing happens, they are at 100kmph and I am at 80 on the PCX...

Anything to do with the weight of the riders perhaps?

[Loz]

Unless you weight 40kg more than your mates and have a soft spot for lead underpants and socks, I think your bike is being choked somewhere. At the price those things cost I'd be straight back to the dealer with the same list you've posted here. Surely they will sort it out free gratis? be interested to hear what they "say" it is. Sounds to me like air flow meter, would impact on idle and top end performance. I'm asuming its PGFM (fuel injected model) And I'm assuming you are not just turning the idle-stop switch on and off or not noticing if someone else is.

Good luck anyway.

[katabeachbum]

Unless you weight 40kg more than your mates and have a soft spot for lead underpants and socks, I think your bike is being choked somewhere. At the price those things cost I'd be straight back to the dealer with the same list you've posted here. Surely they will sort it out free gratis? be interested to hear what they "say" it is. Sounds to me like air flow meter, would impact on idle and top end performance. I'm asuming its PGFM (fuel injected model) And I'm assuming you are not just turning the idle-stop switch on and off or not noticing if someone else is.

Good luck anyway.

my GF airblade PGMFi had a problem at 3 months old approx 1500 km. top speed 60 kmh. Honda "checked" injection, they dont even have a plug in computer actually, disconnected battery to reset injection, and it worked again.

Gonna be some exciting years owning injection bikes until they are up to date on knowledge and equipment

[Loz]

I love my carbs!

But eventually FI will be better.

In a country like thailand where labour is so cheap, a carb bike is a good bet cos it can be fixed easily and cheaply on the RARE occasion that it goes wrong. also very cheap to replace. All this Fi Stuff is going to empty a lot of pockets. I forsee bikes plumeting in value as the typical thai does not adhere to the service schedule and will come unstuck when those big bills come rolling in out of warranty.

[snowflake]

what i meant is that we ride side by side... My speedo shows 80, his and the mios stay at 100... My bike is way faster and it tops out at 110... But it is way faster than that... My mates pcx is just the same...

I do not play with the start aop function...

On the same ride, it sometimes stays on and sometimes it tops... Guess it will be down to the shop on saturday...

[enginerevision]

Seems an electrical problem on the start/stop function. They should check injector/body and airfilter. Top speed also may have to do with the auto transmission.. rollers/springs/clutch springs can wear out overtime, and need to be replaced.

[CMX]

what i meant is that we ride side by side... My speedo shows 80, his and the mios stay at 100...

If I understand correctly, somebody has to calibrate. On a safe straightaway with clear views, I'm going to use a GPS to see how honest my new bike's speedometer is. Another way, if I could not borrow one, would be to hold my bike at a steady 60 when I have regular km markers on the highway - or some other speed, and divide it out.

Obviously, if your bike does not stop its engine when you are at a full stop for more than 3 seconds and are not holding up the rpm's, it is the shop for you on Sat.

[snowflake]

I will be at the shop on Saturday and I will post what they tell me later that day...

Strange with the speedo as it is two brand new PCXs. We bought them side by side and they are lovely... My mates PCX starts and stops like it should, but he has only ridden it for about 230km and I have done 2000KM now...

It is not the biggest problem in the world but it is a new bike and it is babied, I want everything to work...

[VocalNeal]

In a recent test a PCX did 0-108 kph in 23 seconds.

So if you gun yours from a standstill and do the old 1 mississipi, 2 missisipi, count if you get to an indicated 80 in less than 23 seconds your friend's Nuovo is wrong.

OR all PCX's are wrong and they have a top speed of 135 kph.

Of course if you weigh 200 lbs+ this all goes out of the window.

[rixalex]

what i meant is that we ride side by side...

A little bit gay. Watch that.

[Scuddy]

2 things to keep in mind that can affect the stop/idle feature on a PCX before going to your dealer to report a fault.

1) battery voltage sensor, the ECU will override the idle/stop if it detects not enough voltage from the battery to restart.

2) temp sensor, if the bike is too hot from being ridden very hard, again the ECU will override the idle/stop.

P.S

If you want your PCX to hit 125KPH to 130KPH and get to 110kph quicker than 23 seconds it takes about 1/2 hour to do, but be prepared to invalidate your warranty!!!

[VocalNeal]

P.S

If you want your PCX to hit 125KPH to 130KPH and get to 110kph quicker than 23 seconds it takes about 1/2 hour to do, but be prepared to invalidate your warranty!!!

I had heard they were "restricted" to 108kph

Edited April 23, 2010 by VocalNeal

[enginerevision]

Exhaust / CDI / Transmission, these can be restricted!

[VocalNeal]

Exhaust / CDI / Transmission, these can be restricted!

On auto scooters for learners I believe the spacer in the variator is the most common form of restriction.

Exhaust is used on very small quad bikes or the old trikes.

ECU/CDI or speedo sensor on bigger bikes.

[Scuddy]

My apologies for not explaining further on how to increase the top speed of the PCX.

None of the Honda scooters ,icon, click, airblade or PCX, have washers in variator whether fuel injected or not.

Honda have engineered the variator to do the same job as having a spacer. On the rear of the variator are 6 rollers that move up and down depending on the speed of the engine. As the engine speed increases the rollers move up and outward pushing the variator in forcing the v-belt outwards so increasing the speed of the motorcycle. Honda have been clever by engineering in stops on the rear of the variator to stop the rollers from reaching their maximum and so limiting the maximum speed. machining the stops allows the rollers to move further upwards and allowing the variator move in further making the bike go faster. The PCX will now go 125 to 130KPH depending on the weight of the rider etc.

The restriction in the cdi unit is a rev limiter, but the PCX never reaches this with an unmodified variator, it will if you remove/machine the stops. The roller stops have to be machined out as they are part of the original casting.

So now you've increased the top speed the next thing is to increase acceleration.

Simply replace the rollers with ones that are exactly the same in size (very important) but are very slightly heavier, about half a gram each. The heavier the roller the faster they will react to centrifugal force and push the variator in quicker.

We have done this on 3 PCX's already, a fourth will be added next week- next friday. I will do a short video of the process involved. But be warned it will invalidate your warranty!!!

P.S. This can be done on all icons, clicks and airblades as well.

P.P.S. Very off topic considering the OP's original query - sorry. Maybe this should be the heading of a new thread. TUNING THE PCX

Edited April 23, 2010 by Scuddy

[katabeachbum]

My apologies for not explaining further on how to increase the top speed of the PCX.

None of the Honda scooters ,icon, click, airblade or PCX, have washers in variator whether fuel injected or not.

Honda have engineered the variator to do the same job as having a spacer. On the rear of the variator are 6 rollers that move up and down depending on the speed of the engine. As the engine speed increases the rollers move up and outward pushing the variator in forcing the v-belt outwards so increasing the speed of the motorcycle. Honda have been clever by engineering in stops on the rear of the variator to stop the rollers from reaching their maximum and so limiting the maximum speed. machining the stops allows the rollers to move further upwards and allowing the variator move in further making the bike go faster. The PCX will now go 125 to 130KPH depending on the weight of the rider etc.

The restriction in the cdi unit is a rev limiter, but the PCX never reaches this with an unmodified variator, it will if you remove/machine the stops. The roller stops have to be machined out as they are part of the original casting.

So now you've increased the top speed the next thing is to increase acceleration.

Simply replace the rollers with ones that are exactly the same in size (very important) but are very slightly heavier, about half a gram each. The heavier the roller the faster they will react to centrifugal force and push the variator in quicker.

We have done this on 3 PCX's already, a fourth will be added next week- next friday. I will do a short video of the process involved. But be warned it will invalidate your warranty!!!

P.S. This can be done on all icons, clicks and airblades as well.

P.P.S. Very off topic considering the OP's original query - sorry. Maybe this should be the heading of a new thread. TUNING THE PCX

Informative and good post Scuddy. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

[BSJ]

If all bikes are travelling at the same velocity, and some are indicating 100kph whilst others are indicating 80kph...that's a concern. Especially for the ones that are going over the speed limit!

[b19bry]

My apologies for not explaining further on how to increase the top speed of the PCX.

None of the Honda scooters ,icon, click, airblade or PCX, have washers in variator whether fuel injected or not.

Honda have engineered the variator to do the same job as having a spacer. On the rear of the variator are 6 rollers that move up and down depending on the speed of the engine. As the engine speed increases the rollers move up and outward pushing the variator in forcing the v-belt outwards so increasing the speed of the motorcycle. Honda have been clever by engineering in stops on the rear of the variator to stop the rollers from reaching their maximum and so limiting the maximum speed. machining the stops allows the rollers to move further upwards and allowing the variator move in further making the bike go faster. The PCX will now go 125 to 130KPH depending on the weight of the rider etc.

The restriction in the cdi unit is a rev limiter, but the PCX never reaches this with an unmodified variator, it will if you remove/machine the stops. The roller stops have to be machined out as they are part of the original casting.

So now you've increased the top speed the next thing is to increase acceleration.

Simply replace the rollers with ones that are exactly the same in size (very important) but are very slightly heavier, about half a gram each. The heavier the roller the faster they will react to centrifugal force and push the variator in quicker.

We have done this on 3 PCX's already, a fourth will be added next week- next friday. I will do a short video of the process involved. But be warned it will invalidate your warranty!!!

P.S. This can be done on all icons, clicks and airblades as well.

P.P.S. Very off topic considering the OP's original query - sorry. Maybe this should be the heading of a new thread. TUNING THE PCX

Informative and good post Scuddy. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

Yes indeed, very interesting !

How much does this all cost ?

How about just changing the rollers for better acceleration, would this also void the warranty ?

[enginerevision]

It's easier to swap to a performance variator then, don't know if Polini or Malossi or any other brand might deliver them... It's Italian so might be hard to get in Thailand. Maybe look for something local.

[snowflake]

so i went down to the dealership yesterday morning... My favourite mechanic was not in so i had to deal with one of the morons instead...

I told him the problems and he change the oil, the he tightened up a few bolts and screws. The start stop thing is now back to normal. But now a new problem has risen... The bike is now slower than before... Sure i am a heavy fat duck but the bike with me on top went to 110kmph (on the clock) on friday. Now i struggle to reach 90????

Still up to 90 it is fast and powerful (for a small bike)...

Will stop by this week one more time for some explenation from my clever mechanic (not the monkey)...

Ps... Where can i go to make my bike faster?

[enginerevision]

tuning shop?

[VocalNeal]

Scuddy,

Wouldn't you want to use slightly lighter weights so the engine stays at higher RPM longer.

Just a query as I don't have experience with a PCX to know how it performs as std. It of course depends on what one is tuning for.

I did some work on a SilverWing 600 many years ago but it is all a bit hazy.

Edited April 26, 2010 by VocalNeal

[Scuddy]

Scuddy,

Wouldn't you want to use slightly lighter weights so the engine stays at higher RPM longer.

Just a query as I don't have experience with a PCX to know how it performs as std. It of course depends on what one is tuning for.

I did some work on a SilverWing 600 many years ago but it is all a bit hazy.

Ordinarily yes.

But the ECM/ECU has a rev limiter so you need to lower the rpm slightly avoiding the rev limiter and as it happens puts the engine in it's ideal rev range for maximum torque throughout the variators available range of movement.

In the PCX's case the rollers are slightly too light and the engine is peaking to early and revving out without hitting it's maximum speed. Changing the rollers alone will increase speed but not by much as the restriction in the variator movement is still present basically stopping the bike getting into top gear.

The next step we are trying to do is remove the rev limiter. The PCX has 2 rev limiters, the first is set lower in the rev range limiting speed and the second is higher in the rev range protecting the engine from going bang.

An ECU/ECM has already been sent off to see what can be done about the rev limiter and at the end of this week we will completely strip a PCX and check everything including ports etc to see if and where other gains can be made.

[Scuddy]

It's easier to swap to a performance variator then, don't know if Polini or Malossi or any other brand might deliver them... It's Italian so might be hard to get in Thailand. Maybe look for something local.

If the Polini was available off the shelf in Thailand then maybe it would be easier. There are three Polini dealers/stockists in Bangkok but they cater for vespa and Lambretta scooters. Getting a Polini kit for the PCX would be a special order.

What we're trying to do is make use of original Honda parts that we know are garanteed to fit and are available from any and all Honda dealers and only need a small amount of modification to get the best performance.

Where using Polini does have benefits is quality. It's factory making the kits to definite specifications every single time. Using your local tuning or Honda shop to do the work could prove hit and miss.

If there is enough demand we may put a variator kit together specifically for the PCX using modified genuine Honda parts.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Scuddy

[Scuddy]

Poor OP, I'm sorry Snowflake

I think it's time this was a new thread

[snowflake]

i dont mind sir... I am reading this and start to get more interested...

Might not have to buy an er6n now... Or the baby ninja...

Cruise at 130 sounds nice but how stable will it be? Small wheels does not make a stable bike at higher speeds...

Next week i am changing the shocks, and some other goodies...

Yes I am a fat bastard, but the top speed is still 110kmph on the speedo (back to normal now)...

[b19bry]

If there is enough demand we may put a variator kit together specifically for the PCX using modified genuine Honda parts.

I'm interested

[VocalNeal]

Yes I am a fat bastard, but the top speed is still 110kmph on the speedo (back to normal now)...

I found reference to a European equivalent which says top speed is 105 so your indicated 110 looks OK for std. bike.

I did some "back of beer mat" calcs and at 13ps you should get 120-ish. My "constant" for drag maybe off but should be close. (124kph)

Maybe Honda figures they are not ideally suited to more than 110, which is why they designed in Scuddy's variator stops and rev limiter.

[enginerevision]

It's easier to swap to a performance variator then, don't know if Polini or Malossi or any other brand might deliver them... It's Italian so might be hard to get in Thailand. Maybe look for something local.

If the Polini was available off the shelf in Thailand then maybe it would be easier. There are three Polini dealers/stockists in Bangkok but they cater for vespa and Lambretta scooters. Getting a Polini kit for the PCX would be a special order.

What we're trying to do is make use of original Honda parts that we know are garanteed to fit and are available from any and all Honda dealers and only need a small amount of modification to get the best performance.

Where using Polini does have benefits is quality. It's factory making the kits to definite specifications every single time. Using your local tuning or Honda shop to do the work could prove hit and miss.

If there is enough demand we may put a variator kit together specifically for the PCX using modified genuine Honda parts.

Prob the best option . But you can't change the fact that performance variators have a different drive face angle, as well as the roller patterns and the ramplate , and the drive face is a little bit bigger.