Tough Action Against Red Shirts Still Uncertain

[animatic]

Hmm.... there could be a few black shirt terrorists holed up in Lumpini Park. You know, like those Japanese soldiers hiding out in the jungles of Iwo Jima not knowing that the war has been over for three decades..... then they finally come out, it is 30 years later, the war has been over for two and a half decades and they go: "What the f&ck is going on?!"

Sounds like they will be on a bit of a long term Weng.

Actually sounds like Weng specifically... :D

Back to the hustings!

Edited May 4, 2010 by animatic

[bendejo]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

To me the moment when a leader showed his true colors was when Kwanchai led the battalion last week, then at the sight of the cops/soldiers he jumped in a cab and went to hide in McDonalds, leaving his soldiers stranded and leaderless. Way to go, dude!

I think it is important that the gov't not pursue the leaders in a way that could make potential martyrs, or 'people's heroes' of them. Priority should be given to solidly brand Taksin as an international criminal-at-large to prevent him from pulling something like this again. To me, Taksin was the ONLY issue in this whole circus, everybody else was a shill or a dupe.

[minburi2]

Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

Yes it is, but lets hope they catch the leaders alive, so we can sew them, their families, and their real leader for all the damadge they did to us, and me in person

Dude.... "sew" them? I didn't realize knitting was a proper punishment?! lols.... but seriously, there might be a way of confiscating their assets whether they are dead or alive. But I do not know enough about it to comment.

Ok how about:

Sew them up properly, sequester their blood money bank accounts quickly and sue them for damages.

TNXS 4 the kind support

[Motoon]

I forgot ... Chavalit will have to re-position his flag again .. poor chap

I'm not sure that he even remembers what he said or did the day before...

[Motoon]

this reminds me of a joke from my police days.

A young constable is facing his first riot situation, he is facing the petrol bombs and rocks being thrown at him and his colleagues, eventually his bottle goes and runs off from the barrage. As he is sitting down trying to compose himself, close to tears, another policeman approaches him and says "get yourself together son, your colleagues need you". The young constable replies "sorry sarge, my bottle went", the other copper says "sarge? I am a chief superintendent", the young PC replies "oh sorry, I never realised I had run that far".

That shoe fits...

[jonclark]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

<deleted>

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

[animatic]

quote 'SomTumTiger' Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

quote miniburi2 Yes it is, but lets hope they catch the leaders alive, so we can sew them, their families, and their real leader for all the damadge they did to us, and me in person

Dude.... "sew" them? I didn't realize knitting was a proper punishment?! lols.... but seriously, there might be a way of confiscating their assets whether they are dead or alive. But I do not know enough about it to comment.

Ok how about:

Sew them up properly, sequester their blood money bank accounts quickly and sue them for damages.

TNXS 4 the kind support

Ok the idium didn't work.

'Sew them up' means finish the deal put thinks in order,

or as in sewing on a straight jacket so as to prevent injury to others.

Edited May 4, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

<deleted>

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

[Motoon]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

<deleted>

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

The case against the PAD leaders has been lodged but is still pending. The initial intention of charging them with terrorism has been dropped and they were then charged with inciting unrest and causing " inconvenience" to others.. There has been no further progress in the case...

In that connection also note that none of the red leaders has been charged over the incidents last year! These were by far more violent including the theft of city buses using them as gas traps in highly populated areas or the shooting of a bystander in front of the market. This is a point always conveniently left out by the red troops.

Currently Nattawut has been arguing that they should not be charged with terrorism and LM. However he seems willing to accept that they should be charged with unciting unrest and other minor offenses. The argument is rather weak though since it leaves out the use of armed ex-soldiers, the target bombings, the kidnapping of different persons and so on. All to be proven of course but progress has been quite good over the last few days, it seems. The only deal the Goevernment probably would go for is to exchange a partial amnesty against conclusive evidence of the involvement of, well you know who... For Arisman, Kwai...aeh Kwanchai a.o. it looks rather bleak and they'll probably start an "adviser" career somewhere in Poipet...

[Jerrytheyoung]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

<deleted>

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

If you want a national reconciliation and start a new chapter for Thai History, you have to be generous, except for those who have blood on their hands.

[jonclark]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

<deleted>

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

If you want a national reconciliation and start a new chapter for Thai History, you have to be generous, except for those who have blood on their hands.

I think Thailand could do with having a look at the South African Truth and Reconciliation Committe, where all parties (in thi scase the reds and yellows) put all their cards on the table and all information is divuldged to the public, through public hearings TV etc. A line is drawn under the incidents and a new chapter is started. In effect starting from year zero.

As abhorant as it maybe to some, those with blood in their hands may walk, if it is deemed to be for the greater good. However those with blood on their hands must puiblically admit their sins before they walk as part of the truth and reconciliation process.

[animatic]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

<deleted>

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

If you want a national reconciliation and start a new chapter for Thai History, you have to be generous, except for those who have blood on their hands.

Slippery slope Jerry.

Just like they say PAD let the street mob controls government genie out of the bottle, it has to stop sometime.

it can't descend till this is S.O.P. for ANY disgruntled group to bring the country to it's knees when they aren't in power.

Reconciliation is fine if basic principles are not at issue, but when things are nitty gritty and affect the future of all,

some things MUST be settled for good, a line drawn in the sand, and harsh punishment CONSISTENTLY applied for crossing it.

Please list the red leaders with NO blood on their hands.

Edited May 4, 2010 by animatic

[Tod Daniels]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations. <SNIP>

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

News Flash: the PAD leaders ALREADY showed up when arrest warrants were issued; they were given bail, and now it's a waiting game for the slow thai wheels of justice to grind forward until their case comes up on the docket. Thaksin was prosecuted by electoral and constitutional law, NOT civil and/or criminal law, they are different courts entirely.

I find it interesting that the red-rabble leaders are now floating the idea of some sort of 'amnesty' for the protestors.

I have no problem with letting the easily led-by-the-nose average thai protestor just going home. However, if the current government gives amnesty to the 24 red-rabble leaders who currently have arrest warrants out and especially the 'core leaders' like Jatuporn, Kwanchai, Suporn, Arisman, whack-job-Weng, Veera, Maj-Gen Khattiya (Seh Daeng) and the like, who are the ones directly responsible for having caused MILLIONS of baht damage to both the contry and the people whose businesses were affected where the reds have their bamboo/tire tree forts, it will be sad indeed.

<SNIP> you have to be generous, except for those who have blood on their hands.

The above mentioned individuals are the REAL people with 'blood on their hands' and they NEED to be held fully accountable for their actions in what’s happened. Letting them skate free is akin to condoning their actions of forcing a current government which operates under the same laws as the two previous 'red' governments into a compromise.

Although FWIW, Abhisit's 'road map' was very shrewd indeed. At the first televised meetings with the reds, he floated the idea of holding elections in December; now according to the new 'road map' he's saying elections in the middle of November. That's just a two week difference!! He says he's willing to dissolve the Lower House in September, which effectively gives his party another 60-90 days of caretaker status after that BEFORE elections are held.

It is interesting to note, the time frame he offers out is AFTER the budget gets passed, AFTER Anupong retires, and hopefully after they amend the current constitution to strike a balance between the crap 1977 one and the current 2007 one.

Any way you read this it is hardly the "win" the reds are trying to play it up to be. Listening to Red Rachaprasong Radio you'd think they were given the frickin' moon, and they're trying to convince the small mob that this is a BIG win for the red-rabble.

This is most definitely a 'win' for the Demz and Abhisit; he's showed restraint, even temperedness, and patience all the while giving the reds enough rope so they'd hang themselves thru fragmented leadership decisions, publicity blunders, and basically a one hand not knowing what the other is doing kind of style.

It's typical carrot and stick negotiations, and overall Abhisit hasn't given the reds much more than he initially offered to do all those weeks ago.

I also found it interesting that Veera Musikpong who has been noticeably silent on the red-rabble stage, would be the ones the red-leaders would send to 'negotiate' with the government and hash it all out. I have said all along that Veera was the key to finding a solution.

IMHO; The government has walked softly so far, but they sure are carrying one hellova a BIG frickin' stick (should things come to that). I hope it doens't and the red-rabble leaders take what's offered, but another old adage is 'spare the rod, spoil the child', and maybe these 'children' (aka the red leaders) need to be beaten with the rod a little before they understand the error of their ways.

Edited May 4, 2010 by tod-daniels

[landofthefree]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

&lt;deleted&gt;

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

If you want a national reconciliation and start a new chapter for Thai History, you have to be generous, except for those who have blood on their hands.

Slippery slope Jerry.

Just like they say PAD let the street mob controls government genie out of the bottle, it has to stop sometime.

it can't descend till this is S.O.P. for ANY disgruntled group to bring the country to it's knees when they aren't in power.

Reconciliation is fine if basic principles are not at issue, but when things are nitty gritty and affect the future of all,

some things MUST be settled for good, a line drawn in the sand, and harsh punishment CONSISTENTLY applied for crossing it.

Please list the red leaders with NO blood on their hands.

I predict that there will be no action against anyone. A face saving negotiation has been completed behind closed doors which will have included no action against anyone exactly the same as for the Yellow shirts airport incident. The Reds will, I predict accept the new election date. Abhisit threatened to send in armoured cars (an empty face gaining threat) so he doesnt look to be weak. I predict the whole debacle will soon be over, the Reds will go back to being farmers and we will have elections in November.

[whybother]

I predict that there will be no action against anyone. A face saving negotiation has been completed behind closed doors which will have included no action against anyone exactly the same as for the Yellow shirts airport incident. The Reds will, I predict accept the new election date. Abhisit threatened to send in armoured cars (an empty face gaining threat) so he doesnt look to be weak. I predict the whole debacle will soon be over, the Reds will go back to being farmers and we will have elections in November.

You seem to forget (as do most red supporters) that the Yellows have been charged and are awaiting court proceedings for the airport fiasco.

There has to be some charges out of this protest, minor ones for the main leaders, and major ones for the violent reds.

[Zolt]

Is this really a "thread worthy" post, with all the other Red threads running?

Yes it is, but lets hope they catch the leaders alive, so we can sew them, their families, and their real leader for all the damadge they did to us, and me in person

Lemme see if I got this right: you want to poke little holes in them with a needle and pull some thread through? I don't know what they did to you but that's just cruel!

[landofthefree]

I predict that there will be no action against anyone. A face saving negotiation has been completed behind closed doors which will have included no action against anyone exactly the same as for the Yellow shirts airport incident. The Reds will, I predict accept the new election date. Abhisit threatened to send in armoured cars (an empty face gaining threat) so he doesnt look to be weak. I predict the whole debacle will soon be over, the Reds will go back to being farmers and we will have elections in November.

You seem to forget (as do most red supporters) that the Yellows have been charged and are awaiting court proceedings for the airport fiasco.

There has to be some charges out of this protest, minor ones for the main leaders, and major ones for the violent reds.

Face saving charges maybe but there wont be convictions same as for the Yellows. TIT.

[h90]

The PAD have not been prosectuted fully over previous demonstrations.

This has been a big complaint by the reds.

The reds now want the same treatment that they complained against.

&lt;deleted&gt;

Surely BOTH should be prosecuted, although in the PAD case, I would imagine given the length of time that has passed a successful prosecution would be harder.

Why would prosecuting PAD take any less time than prosecuting Thaksin took?

It's still less time by a year or so.

If you want a national reconciliation and start a new chapter for Thai History, you have to be generous, except for those who have blood on their hands.

I think like always no one will go to jail no matter how much blood on their hand and the lesson will be, you can do anything as long as you are "big" (powerful, armed, rich etc etc) enough.

than it is just a matter of time till the next crises will happen.

New election and in April 2012 we have the same thing again, either by the yellows, because PTP is buying votes again and sack in as much money as possible, or from the reds if they didn't get the power.

If Thaksin really died than it might need another 5-10 years till we have the same mess again.

You just need to read the Thai history of the last 80 years. Pardon for everyone and a couple of years later the same story again, different names but same story. to brake that it would be necessary to complete change the juristic system (maybe roman right?) the election system (only popular vote??) the police (kick them out and start from zero), the army (there are more generals than soldiers and all are untouchable by law). No way Abhisit (or anyone else beside Stalin, Hitler or Mao) can do such changes.

Edit: I am not for a dictator....just I am a pessimist.

Edited May 4, 2010 by h90

[retarius]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

Yes the coup leaders were granted amnesty as part of the new constitution....

[h90]

There's talk of amnesty for the reds - let's hope the Government stands firm and does not grant amnesty for those who committed criminal acts and those who incited others to do so. The core leaders should not be granted amnesty whatsoever, but I bet that is the first item on their agenda as they mull Abhisit's proposal.

Just a quick question.

Was there an amnesty after the coup the torn the "People's Constitution"?

What "People's Constitution"?

The 1997 Constitution gave the Premier a lot power and people did NOT vote for it.

The 2007 Constitution had a referendum and people have a lot more power than in the 1997.

[Redsunset]

Hmm.... there could be a few black shirt terrorists holed up in Lumpini Park. You know, like those Japanese soldiers hiding out in the jungles of Iwo Jima not knowing that the war has been over for three decades..... then they finally come out, it is 30 years later, the war has been over for two and a half decades and they go: "What the f&ck is going on?!"

Sounds like they will be on a bit of a long term Weng.

Actually sounds like Weng specifically...

Back to the hustings!

lols! You are right!

[Redsunset]

I predict that there will be no action against anyone. A face saving negotiation has been completed behind closed doors which will have included no action against anyone exactly the same as for the Yellow shirts airport incident. The Reds will, I predict accept the new election date. Abhisit threatened to send in armoured cars (an empty face gaining threat) so he doesnt look to be weak. I predict the whole debacle will soon be over, the Reds will go back to being farmers and we will have elections in November.

You seem to forget (as do most red supporters) that the Yellows have been charged and are awaiting court proceedings for the airport fiasco.

There has to be some charges out of this protest, minor ones for the main leaders, and major ones for the violent reds.

Face saving charges maybe but there wont be convictions same as for the Yellows. TIT.

Nice, Landofthefree.... I agree with you... everything was already set up BEFORE Abhisit went on TV. That is why he seemed so confident. Otherwise he would have looked frozen, like a deer caught by bright headlights. The five points of reconciliation are bogus. They are so obvious and so vague anyone can interpret them in anyway... its like saying one of the points it that "we will all do our utmost to breathe air during the day... we will do our utmost to be on time for meetings.... all of us should be honest in our lives" Complete rubbish for the cameras and just to give the whole charade credibility.... A sad attempt at a real solution... I'm deeply disappointed at such a lacklustered attempt at furthering the growth of democracy in Thailand.

[Redsunset]

This whole protesting affair has been a complete waste of time. I've enjoyed coming on to Thai Visa and occasionally expressing my views, but other than for some morbid need to see what is happening, and to update myself on whether it was safe to go out, it served no purpose other than self entertainment!

The reds have also wasted tons of time with their silly protest. All it accomplished was to get the PM to reduce the elections from one year to six months... if all the deaths and wounded and hassles were worth that, then the people in Thailand need to revisit its priorities...

[pornsasi]

"The General will establish some maoist resistance group in the jungles of northern Thailand and play war until eventually caught." HERM

Herm, exquisitely put! The General has lost a bit of face and some "jungle duty" will serve him well! I also like your term: "play war" which is exactly the kind of thing a man like him will do....

A promissing future for a 78yo general