http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2010/05/0...uro_233969.html

Can't wait to get to Europe this summer and take advantage of the drop against the dollar. About 20% so far.

As posted in another thread.

http://www.thisblogrules.com/2010/03/dog-t...-for-years.html

As posted in another thread.

http://www.thisblogrules.com/2010/03/dog-t...-for-years.html

At the top of the link I posted they have a slideshow of Greek protest dogs over the years. Maybe that's how they manage to stay off the menus around town?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/opinion/30krugman.html

"So what will happen to the euro? Until recently, most analysts, myself included, considered a euro breakup basically impossible, since any government that even hinted that it was considering leaving the euro would be inviting a catastrophic run on its banks. But if the crisis countries are forced into default, they’ll probably face severe bank runs anyway, forcing them into emergency measures like temporary restrictions on bank withdrawals. This would open the door to euro exit.

So is the euro itself in danger? In a word, yes. If European leaders don’t start acting much more forcefully, providing Greece with enough help to avoid the worst, a chain reaction that starts with a Greek default and ends up wreaking much wider havoc looks all too possible."

It will end up in a war.

It will end up in a war.

I doubt it.

Civil unrest, martial law, Nato peacekeepers....but I doubt there would be a war.

A war between who? The usual global aggressor wouldn't dare....besides, there's no oil there.

It will end up in a war.

I doubt it.

Civil unrest, martial law, Nato peacekeepers....but I doubt there would be a war.

A war between who? The usual global aggressor wouldn't dare....besides, there's no oil there.

Their's plenty of oil and grease in those EU countries in the most trouble.

If by the usual global aggressor you mean the UK, I'm sure they'll sit this one out since they aren't in the EMU.

Euro might be the 1st major currencies/fiat to be toasted but it will not be the last.

Nor are they necessarily the worst or most deserving of being the first to possibly fall.

The USD has the benefit of Seigniorage & if not for the world reserve status & oil being pegged to it ...would be seen for what it actually is right now....bankrupt script/paper backed by ??? credit/nothing but the faith that the US will repay its debts based on taxation of a quickly increasing unemployed population. Production jobs are in Asia now & show no signs of returning.

Folks run to USD in these times of crisis believing it will be the last fiat standing...But being last standing does not mean it too will not fall.

All Fiats fall & all have been recently devalued greatly .

Call it what you like..... Yes you still have USD & yes it still may buy stuff but it will not buy what it use to even against Europe.

In fact Euro is still 1.27 to a dollar right? So yeah it is down but which is still the stronger fiat in purchasing power?

Every time the US FED pounds out another billion or trillion you think your getting two nickels for your dime?

The usual global aggressor wouldn't dare

I think that New Zealand will sit this one out.

It will end up in a war.

I doubt it.

Civil unrest, martial law, Nato peacekeepers....but I doubt there would be a war.

A war between who? The usual global aggressor wouldn't dare....besides, there's no oil there.

Their's plenty of oil and grease in those EU countries in the most trouble.

If by the usual global aggressor you mean the UK, I'm sure they'll sit this one out since they aren't in the EMU.

Koheesti:

He must be talking about Germany. They are the only ones to start two world wars.

Koheesti:

Everything is cool now. They are going to set up a fund to bail all of Europe out. That big, bad US is only contributing some $50 Billion to this little escapade.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

EU and IMF agree €720bn boost for rescue plan

By Tony Barber and Ben Hall in Brussels and Quentin Peel in Berlin

Published: May 9 2010 10:21 | Last updated: May 10 2010 02:05

The European Union and the International Monetary Fund early Monday morning agreed an emergency funding facility worth as much as €720bn (£625bn) in loan guarantees and credits to stabilise the eurozone before financial markets opened.

As part of a massive EU plan to shock the markets into believing eurozone finances were sound, the European Central Bank was also set to play a big role by buying eurozone government debt.

Initial reaction to news of the package in early Asia trading Monday morning was favourable with the euro gaining almost 2 per cent against the US dollar and 3 per cent against the yen. Tokyo’s Nikkei average rose 0.9 percent.

The stabilisation scheme agreed by EU finance ministers and top officials meeting in Brussels consists of government-backed loan guarantees and bilateral loans worth up to €440bn provided by eurozone members; a further €60bn supported by all EU members through expansion of an existing balance of payments facility; and up to €220bn provided by the IMF.

Read more: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f96a6c14-5b48-11...144feab49a.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Euro might be the 1st major currencies/fiat to be toasted but it will not be the last.

What would happen if the Euro and dollar both crashed and burned? Would the pound be king again?

In fact Euro is still 1.27 to a dollar right? So yeah it is down but which is still the stronger fiat in purchasing power?

It was 1.60 not too long ago. It's going down faster than the dollar did back in 2002. As for purchasing power, I think in America a dollar stills buys much more than a Euro buys in the EMU.

let's talk about the "toasted" EUR and the "strong" Dollar at the end of this year

It will end up in a war.

that goes without saying. for sure the headhunters from Papua New Guinea will invade the Christmas Islands and force the islanders to abandon the EUR and adopt shrinkheads as currency.

It will end up in a war.

that goes without saying. for sure the headhunters from Papua New Guinea will invade the Christmas Islands and force the islanders to abandon the EUR and adopt shrinkheads as currency.

If I remember rightly you were born in Switzerland, right? Do you happen to know what the general take in Switzerland is on the subject of the Euro and Greece being in big trouble? Is their official position more pro-Euro or against like in the UK? For or against any bailout of Greece? Is Switzerland part of the IMF? If so, they'll be paying some of the bailout as well.

"Can't wait to get to Europe this summer and take advantage of the drop against the dollar. About 20% so far."

hmmm... that is interesting! you earned all your dollars when USD/EUR was weakest two years ago at ~1.60? or did you earn your dollars in 2001 and get now 35% less Euros for your Dollars?

p.s. my question is of course a rhetoric one and i don't expect an answer. but you might be able to bullsh*t some chaps here who have no idea what currencies have done in the past.

"Can't wait to get to Europe this summer and take advantage of the drop against the dollar. About 20% so far."

hmmm... that is interesting! you earned all your dollars when USD/EUR was weakest two years ago at ~1.60? or did you earn your dollars in 2001 and get now 35% less Euros for your Dollars?

p.s. my question is of course a rhetoric one and i don't expect an answer. but you might be able to bullsh*t some chaps here who have no idea what currencies have done in the past.

So I ask you a non-threatening questions about attitudes in SUI, and you go after me? That's says a lot about you Naam.

2001? The Euro wasn't introduced in cash transactions until January 1, 2002. I paid in Euros (from an ATM) for the first time on Jan 2nd at a cafe in the Vienna airport where Yo Yo Ma was also sitting. Back then the Euro was weaker than the USD.

Before that time I was being paid in Estonian EEKs. From Jan-March 2002 I was being paid in Hungarian Florints and ever since April 2002 I've been paid in USD. Until Aug 2007 I was living in the Eurozone. Getting too expensive was one of the reasons I left.

[my own not-so-nice remarks taken out in the interest of keeping this thread civil. No, really.]

2001? The Euro wasn't introduced in cash transactions until January 1, 2002.

sorry, typing mistake. but that does not change the point i made. fact is that comparing EUR/USD since inception of the EUR with today's rate (presently 1.3059) the dollar lost. and it is naïve to think that Europe, where you pay for plain sh*tty water in a restaurant, has become recently "affordable" for those who hold dollars.

It will end up in a war.

that goes without saying. for sure the headhunters from Papua New Guinea will invade the Christmas Islands and force the islanders to abandon the EUR and adopt shrinkheads as currency.

If I remember rightly you were born in Switzerland, right? Do you happen to know what the general take in Switzerland is on the subject of the Euro and Greece being in big trouble? Is their official position more pro-Euro or against like in the UK? For or against any bailout of Greece? Is Switzerland part of the IMF? If so, they'll be paying some of the bailout as well.

-whether the EUR is in big trouble remains to be seen, Greece is.

-public opinion all over €URoland and of course in Switzerland is against the bail-out of Greece.

-Switzerland is an IMF member.

-"paying for a bail-out" is a wrong expression. correct is "contributing to a loan package bearing conditions above market rates"

there is no "end of the Euro" although personally i wish there was!

He must be talking about Germany. They are the only ones to start two world wars.

= the intellectual niveau of some participants in threads like this is incredibly high

2001? The Euro wasn't introduced in cash transactions until January 1, 2002.

sorry, typing mistake. but that does not change the point i made. fact is that comparing EUR/USD since inception of the EUR with today's rate (presently 1.3059) the dollar lost. and it is naïve to think that Europe, where you pay for plain sh*tty water in a restaurant, has become recently "affordable" for those who hold dollars.

1) Maybe still not affordable, but certainly cheaper.

2) I'm in Dubai now. A Jack & Coke is about $12 and a beer about $8. Most places in Europe feel affordable in comparison.

1) Maybe still not affordable, but certainly cheaper.

2) I'm in Dubai now. A Jack & Coke is about $12 and a beer about $8. Most places in Europe feel affordable in comparison.

makes sense!

He must be talking about Germany. They are the only ones to start two world wars.

= the intellectual niveau of some participants in threads like this is incredibly high

...as is the common sense niveau of those self proclaimed intellectuals in the same threads

Why do people always think of war as in bombs and rockets?

Nowadays we can have trade wars and such. Think of extra tariffs imposed on imported selective stuff (already happening). Currency depreciation as witnessed. And even cyber war is mentioned nowadays. A good old conventional big war can be a very good idea to get some of the countries out of their "financial crisis" The recent incident between North and South Korea could potentially trigger a (big) nasty war in that region not to mention the Iran issue that is still being hyped up.

Anyway it seems that the "crash" of the Euro has been postponed with the promise of more debt that can (and will) be created.

The peasants will suffer as they are the ones that have to pay for the increased interest payable on those loans in the form of higher taxes, reduced pension benefits and such. The "globalisation scheme is working very well. The EU citizens are now collectively responsible for the members that were fiscally irresponsible.

Digging a second hole and use that sand to fill up the first hole still leaves you with a hole.......

-"paying for a bail-out" is a wrong expression. correct is "contributing to a loan package bearing conditions above market rates"

there is no "end of the Euro" although personally i wish there was!

Well I do agree the end of Euro would be best for the strong in Euroland. But also agree there will not be a complete *end* per se' to the Euro.

But I do not feel ultimately the people will agree with paying for the sins of the PIIGS. I am not talking Greece alone I am talking PIIGS. When the whole becomes known it will not be bailable.

I think or my guess I should say is that the Euro will continue in the countries that can afford it... & rightfully so IMO.

The PIIGS will go back to their own currency & cut a deal on their outstanding liabilities.

This will cause much grief for the European banks & they will end up losing a bunch in the deal.

Well I do agree the end of Euro would be best for the strong in Euroland.

no it wouldn't Flying. although a cash net payer into Brussel's "let's waste the dough bin" the strong benefit immensely because nearly 60% of their exports are shipped into €UR-areas. this enables the producers to do a longterm cost planning without taking exchange rate fluctuations and hedging into consideration. the € is only in a mess because every cheating Bill, Buck, Hank and Joe was admitted into the monetary union.

Well I do agree the end of Euro would be best for the strong in Euroland.

no it wouldn't Flying. although a cash net payer into Brussel's "let's waste the dough bin" the strong benefit immensely because nearly 60% of their exports are shipped into €UR-areas. this enables the producers to do a longterm cost planning without taking exchange rate fluctuations and hedging into consideration. the € is only in a mess because every cheating Bill, Buck, Hank and Joe was admitted into the monetary union.

I think in some ways we are actually saying the same thing....

Because I also said....

I think or my guess I should say is that the Euro will continue in the countries that can afford it... & rightfully so IMO.

When I said the end I meant the end of its present form. They should drop Bill, Buck, Hank & Joe

I actually think they will but you never know. Now they are pushing for their own mega bailout...

Still while they deal with G I think they may be surprised by the depth of P, I & S before it is all over.

Then again with their new mega bailout maybe they will pretend it does not exist? You know like the way the US does with California's debt which exceeds in relation Greece

Mad Mad World

Well I do agree the end of Euro would be best for the strong in Euroland.

no it wouldn't Flying. although a cash net payer into Brussel's "let's waste the dough bin" the strong benefit immensely because nearly 60% of their exports are shipped into €UR-areas. this enables the producers to do a longterm cost planning without taking exchange rate fluctuations and hedging into consideration. the € is only in a mess because every cheating Bill, Buck, Hank and Joe was admitted into the monetary union.

in many way the writing was on the wall when they let countries like greece, and italy in as their govt's have never been know to be stable. Even the germans who are footing the majority of the bill has had it's issue with fiscal budgets.

Remember about a year ago in the crisis thread I was talking/asking about how a country could get out of the Euro/Eurozone. So I send a few e-mails

to different institutions but never got an answer. I read somewhere in some Dutch news site that there not seem to be a procedure that allows for such move (I will recheck). It is just crazy that they have to use article 122 (If I remember well) which says something like extraordinary circumstances.

Cheating and cooking the books are not extraordinary events in my dictionary. Those government people knew perfectly well what they were doing and if not, they should not be part of a government. I find it very funny when you hear such people talking about they don't like the deficits, well if they don't like it, why do we have deficits?

Those countries that can no longer service their debt should default, simple as that. Giving them another credit card does not help. A number of countries would blow up but it would be a good lesson for those that took and gave these loans.

I just read that some Dutch banks and the Dutch government were fully aware about the situation in Iceland but decided not to say anything as it might have caused an economic crisis in Iceland. Well guess what, they got it anyway and many people lost a bit of money if not all.

I suspect the Euro "crisis" is bigger then what they are telling us and this emergency fund they set up will only delay what has to happen.

Still while they deal with G I think they may be surprised by the depth of P, I & S before it is all over. Then again with their new mega bailout maybe they will pretend it does not exist?

Flying,

right now there is no mega bail-out and there might not be one if the €U political àsses are firm, act and don't talk to much sh*t. what they are doing now is filling up the war chest to scare the speculators.

Portugal's medium term maturities yield 3.84%, Spain's yields are 3.24% and Italy has to pay 3.60% for a 5-y maturity. all sustainable. so i ask where's the bail-out beef? only in the brains of blogspotters, zerohedgers and the usual doom&gloom suspects!

even the bail-out of Greece might not have been necessary without the shorting of greek debt via credit default swaps. the ironic thing is that even greek banks participated in the shorting. only 6 months ago Greece was able to refinance at 5% (5-y maturities) and a year ago at 4% which was sustainable. CDS speculators have catapulted these rates into unsustainable heights. the bad news is that the Greek won't be willing to bear the brunt their government promises.